Petition: PUT AN END TO INFLATED PRICES AND SHADY BUSINESS PRACTICE (ITW vinyl, etc)

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Comments

  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    godpt3 wrote:
    you know, seeing all this whining makes me want to put both my ITW and benaroya vinyls on ebay just to spite people.
    nobodys whining... do as you please with your stuff... my beef is with the people that buy it for $200, not the people that try selling it... i have everything PJ id ever want / need... i just wanted to start conversation about an issue that effects all of us... and i think ive done that... i hope we can continue to be mature and see where this takes us... and i encourage all you reaganites to think as a communist for a bit just to see what im talking about... communism is afterall good in principle... in a group as relatively small as the PJ fan club it could work
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    sgossard3 wrote:
    my beef is with the people that buy it for $200, not the people that try selling it...
    But they are willing to pay the $200 for it, so be it. But I'm confused because in a previous post you were talking about the greed of those out to make a quick buck.
  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    redrock wrote:
    Ummm... this is an lp we are talking about... let's get things back into perspective. We're not talking food for the hungry, medicines for those who desperately need it, etc. It's just an lp/poster/book... whatever limited editions we may get via the 10c.
    ok... and entirely hypothetically... im saying my problem right now is that there are people amongst this fan base that would hoard 10C limited edition medicine to mark up 700% and sell it to someone sick enough to pay the price... all i meant was that if these people are on this board and they see how many people think what theyre doing is just plain wrong, maybe their conscience will stop them from doing it as often or at all... its idealistic... completely! but so am i.... and dont knock me for that... plus its my birthday! :D
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    sgossard3 wrote:
    communism is afterall good in principle... in a group as relatively small as the PJ fan club it could work
    Except that the PJ fan club lives, breathes, and works in a free society. There is no way to control what anyone does with their own stuff or money. And there is no way to block people out of the club who may have other reasons for joining other than they are a real fan of the band.

    So, you have talked a lot about what you don't like about this society we live in. How do you realistically propose to fix what you see as grave issues?
  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    redrock wrote:
    But they are willing to pay the $200 for it, so be it. But I'm confused because in a previous post you were talking about the greed of those out to make a quick buck.
    damn... now i know how it feels to be a presidential candidate (another overblown analogy)... im just trying to appease people at this point... i know people are gonna continue doing this... especially that person who said theyd do it just to spite me... the fact of the matter is that person couldnt make a quick buck if people werent paying his prices... theres gotta be a balance between seller greed and buyer saviness for any of this to work (and i know it wont... like i said im just opening up some discussion in hopes of maybe swaying the opinions of a few)
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    That is a good start of an idea, but the problem comes when you have 2000 copies and 5000 fans. Which is why I would think my pre-order idea (where they take orders before anything is manufacturered) would be the best way to go. So far I have not seen anyone present any reasons why it wouldn't work.
    ...
    Pre-Order is fine. But, who do you take? The first 2,000 that order or toss the 5,000 in a hat and pull 2,000 names?
    I think the first come, first served rule should apply. I mean, that's how it works at General Admission gigs. right?
    ...
    The only problem I can see with the prior to manufacturing (production) is the production schedule. There are other factors in play. For example, if they make an annoucement for a specific item and only recieve 150 pre-orders... should you go ahead and produce 150 copies... or produce 2,000 copies and run the risk of having 1,850 sitting in inventory... or cancel the order due to lack of interest?
    ...
    I think the deal for the Ten/VHC should be... think up something cool... make a limited run (what you can afford to produce with up front costs)... offer it up for sale. Fan Club members pre-order first, distributors to local independent record stores and sales to the general public from their website next.
    If you didn't get one in the Pre-Sale... and the general public gets their hands on them... then, it's out and there's nothing you can do about it. The Fans control the market... if someone is willing to pay 150 bucks for a 20 dollar item... there's nothing anyone can do about it.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    sgossard3 wrote:
    agreed! hes a no good flipper! i can count the jewish people in on my petition then yes? we can make it more of a list... a schindler's list ;)

    gotta stay on topic so my thread doesnt got shut down!

    Schindlers List was much more important then your list.

    Worst Comparison Ever!
    :)

    (Worse then the slavery comparison!)
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    sgossard3 wrote:
    ok... and entirely hypothetically... im saying my problem right now is that there are people amongst this fan base that would hoard 10C limited edition medicine to mark up 700% and sell it to someone sick enough to pay the price... all i meant was that if these people are on this board and they see how many people think what theyre doing is just plain wrong, maybe their conscience will stop them from doing it as often or at all... its idealistic... completely! but so am i.... and dont knock me for that... plus its my birthday! :D
    People were not allowed to hoard this who bought it from the 10C as there was a limit of 1.

    If people were able to obtain some from other means, then that has nothing to do with the fan club.
  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    aNiMaL wrote:
    How do you realistically propose to fix what you see as grave issues?
    what is that painter Bob Ross used to sign off his show with?... "Be good to eachother"?

    sadly that might be the most unrealistic proposal yet...
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    sgossard3 wrote:
    ok... and entirely hypothetically... im saying my problem right now is that there are people amongst this fan base that would hoard 10C limited edition medicine to mark up 700% and sell it to someone sick enough to pay the price... all i meant was that if these people are on this board and they see how many people think what theyre doing is just plain wrong, maybe their conscience will stop them from doing it as often or at all... its idealistic... completely! but so am i.... and dont knock me for that... plus its my birthday! :D

    Happy Birthday!

    Not knocking you for idealistic visions... I still have some of those too but one needs to be realistic too. Hoarding medicine and reselling it at a 700% mark up to someone desperate is taking advantage of someone extremely vulnerable that NEEDS this medicine. Now THIS is morally wrong. Hoarding a vinyl to resell at 700% mark-up is greedy but the person buying it doesn't NEED it, just wants it. I don't feel that it is wrong, just greedy. That, my friend, is the difference.
  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    Schindlers List was much more important then your list.

    Worst Comparison Ever!
    :)

    (Worse then the slavery comparison!)
    oh i meerly meant to compare myself to schindler who was played by liam neeson who also played qui-gon jinn... i like to dabble in the jedi arts :)
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    sgossard3 wrote:
    oh i meerly meant to compare myself to schindler who was played by liam neeson who also played qui-gon jinn... i like to dabble in the jedi arts :)

    The art of deflection, I reckon!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    redrock wrote:
    Why should fan club members get first option on ALL the limited numbers (as you propose with the 2000 copies example). Unless the band or the 10C decide to press the vinyls themselves, these are made for and distributed by the record company. They have no obligation or loyalty to fan club members above the rest of the population that may want a PJ collectible/vinyl. Remember all, the band is a business.
    ...
    Why not?
    Why not offer it up to the Fan club first? If there are 2,000 copies and only 1,105 pre-orders come in... turn the remaining 895 to the distribution house that the Independent Record shops order from and let them buy them and sell them for what they are worth.
    If the fans buy up all 2,000 in the pre-order... isn't that the same thing? All 2,000 units sold. The band isn't seeing dime one of the over retail sale ($20.00) price.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • aNiMaL
    aNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Why not?
    Why not offer it up to the Fan club first? If there are 2,000 copies and only 1,105 pre-orders come in... turn the remaining 895 to the distribution house that the Independent Record shops order from and let them buy them and sell them for what they are worth.
    If the fans buy up all 2,000 in the pre-order... isn't that the same thing? All 2,000 units sold. The band isn't seeing dime one of the over retail sale ($20.00) price.
    Because maybe the distributor also likes his records to be available to the general public who do not visit websites and join fan clubs. But, if they saw it in the stores they might pick it up.
  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    redrock wrote:
    Happy Birthday!

    Not knocking you for idealistic visions... I still have some of those too but one needs to be realistic too. Hoarding medicine and reselling it at a 700% mark up to someone desperate is taking advantage of someone extremely vulnerable that NEEDS this medicine. Now THIS is morally wrong. Hoarding a vinyl to resell at 700% mark-up is greedy but the person buying it does NEED it, just wants it. I don't feel that it is wrong, just greedy. That, my friend, is the difference.
    mmk yah i see that... good point... either way itd be nice for people to treat eachother as they want to be treated

    if any of my friends from the "real world" were to see this thread theyd be incredibly surprised how unlike my usual cynical self i am being... im just using this as a way of experimenting with optimism... theres too much hate and sarcasm in the world today... PJ's music has really been a light in my life and i hate to see fellow fans interacting the way many of us are, anymore than i would want to see my sister in a harmful relationship
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/
  • JSBE
    JSBE Posts: 1,078
    why is this thread still up and running?

    first, i find it rather funny (ironic if you will) that this thread was started by someone who was able to order a copy of the new "holy grail" of pearl jam or pearl jam related vinyl that is the into the wild soundtrack.

    second, the thought to simply "up" the supply is just naive. say the vinyl had a printing of 5,000 instead of the supposed 2,000 that were made...does that make everything all better? i don't think it does because that will be a 'problem' for the 5,001st or 5,002nd person that wants one. i hate to say supply and demand, but that is what it is. there will never be enough of (insert item here) to go around to everyone that wants one.

    lastly, to suggest that the 10c or the distributor simply ups the price is naive too. what new, higher price would combat the resale on the open market? $50? $100? $200? if the 10c charged $200 for the vinyl there would be a 100pg thread about how the 10c sucks and is ripping people off.
  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Because maybe the distributor also likes his records to be available to the general public who do not visit websites and join fan clubs. But, if they saw it in the stores they might pick it up.
    thats the problem man... people arent seeing it in stores... its going straight to ebay cause greedy store owners are seeing how much they can make off of us... if nothing else, THAT issue needs to be addressed... im just saying our greed has become so publically visable that even non fans are jumpin on the inflation wagon now... that did not use to be the case... its a new thing... thats why im bringing all this up now...
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Because maybe the distributor also likes his records to be available to the general public who do not visit websites and join fan clubs. But, if they saw it in the stores they might pick it up.
    ...
    I don't understand this arguement.
    The record shops can STILL order them from the distributor and place them on their shelves. The General Public visits record stores, not record distribution houses.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    sgossard3 wrote:
    thats the problem man... people arent seeing it in stores... its going straight to ebay cause greedy store owners are seeing how much they can make off of us... if nothing else, THAT issue needs to be addressed... im just saying our greed has become so publically visable that even non fans are jumpin on the inflation wagon now... that did not use to be the case... its a new thing... thats why im bringing all this up now...
    ..
    That's because people are willing to pay inflated prices. If there were no market for these items, they would sell at face value.
    The Fans control the market by paying these inflated prices. Don't blame the record store owners... they are in it for the business. The buyer who forks over 150 bucks for a 20 dollar item also contributes to the situation.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Kilgore_Trout
    Kilgore_Trout Posts: 7,334
    JSBE wrote:
    why is this thread still up and running?

    first, i find it rather funny (ironic if you will) that this thread was started by someone who was able to order a copy of the new "holy grail" of pearl jam or pearl jam related vinyl that is the into the wild soundtrack.

    second, the thought to simply "up" the supply is just naive. say the vinyl had a printing of 5,000 instead of the supposed 2,000 that were made...does that make everything all better? i don't think it does because that will be a 'problem' for the 5,001st or 5,002nd person that wants one. i hate to say supply and demand, but that is what it is. there will never be enough of (insert item here) to go around to everyone that wants one.

    lastly, to suggest that the 10c or the distributor simply ups the price is naive too. what new, higher price would combat the resale on the open market? $50? $100? $200? if the 10c charged $200 for the vinyl there would be a 100pg thread about how the 10c sucks and is ripping people off.
    first, i wasnt able to get a copy of the "holy grail" cause i was in class... i was lucky that a completely faceless friend from this message board whom ive talked to a few times over the years saw i missed out and she said she'd sell me her copy for face value... THAT is what i mean when im talking about treating eachother well around here... i know id do the same for anyone else here

    second, a higher print # would certainly solve the problem... how often do you hear of people getting ripped off for VS. on vinyl?... if nothing else, 10C should stop getting people hyped up with all this "extremly limited" talk or at least announce how many copies are available so consumers can make an education evaluation of how much the vinyls worth

    third, i dont think anyone wants to see 10C raise their prices... there has already been enough outrage about $120 hoodies and $200 posters books... the fact of the matter tho is that in both cases the inflation rate is not nearly as rampant, if it sells out at all... if thats what it takes then so be it... id rather see the 10C or the artist of the product actually see more profit than joe shmoe making a payment on his new boat
    "Senza speme vivemo in disio"

    http://seanbriceart.com/

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