It’s not the ticket prices it’s the late announcement when lots of people had already booked to see other concerts
All the noise on social media over the last few months points to it being the ticket prices
Exactly- of course it’s the price. Second they are touring a bombing album
Is it bombing? Reached #2 here with minimal promotion. Doing no different to other similar bands from the same era.
Reached number 2 briefly then tumbled. It lasted about a week on the Billboard charts- there are a multitude of 50 year old albums that are selling better than it. See article below and bear in mind that it’s a month old. It’s definitely not selling as expected.
Original post updated for charts for week ending June 15, 2024.
"Wreckage" climbs to No. 9 at alternative radio, No. 8 at mainstream rock and No. 6 at Triple-A. It also moves up from No. 36 to No. 28 on the Canada Rock chart.
Dark Matter hangs on in the top 50 of Top Current Album Sales for a seventh week, selling between 1,700 and 1,800 copies.
Alpine Valley 6/26/98 Alpine Valley 6/27/98 East Lansing 8/18/98 Knoxville 9/6/98 D.C. (Constitution Hall) 9/19/98 Nobelsville 8/18/00 Alpine Valley 10/8/00 Grand Rapids 5/19/06 Detroit (EV) 6/26/11 Wrigley 8/22/16 Wrigley 8/18/18 Noblesville 8/26/24
It’s not the ticket prices it’s the late announcement when lots of people had already booked to see other concerts
All the noise on social media over the last few months points to it being the ticket prices
Exactly- of course it’s the price. Second they are touring a bombing album
Is it bombing? Reached #2 here with minimal promotion. Doing no different to other similar bands from the same era.
Reached number 2 briefly then tumbled. It lasted about a week on the Billboard charts- there are a multitude of 50 year old albums that are selling better than it. See article below and bear in mind that it’s a month old. It’s definitely not selling as expected.
Original post updated for charts for week ending June 15, 2024.
"Wreckage" climbs to No. 9 at alternative radio, No. 8 at mainstream rock and No. 6 at Triple-A. It also moves up from No. 36 to No. 28 on the Canada Rock chart.
Dark Matter hangs on in the top 50 of Top Current Album Sales for a seventh week, selling between 1,700 and 1,800 copies.
“ In its second week on the Billboard charts, Dark Matter declines sharply on every list it appears on. It even fell off of at least one ranking it arrived on last time around.
The massive fall is perhaps most notable on the Billboard 200. Dark Matter opened at No. 5 last week on the ranking of the most-consumed albums in the U.S. It earned the second-loftiest debut of the frame, coming in behind Taylor Swift’s The Tortured Poets Department, of course. Now, it’s barely hanging on, and it may disappear from the tally shortly.”
That was a month ago- it is no longer on the Billboard 200 chart. Anyway this thread is about the poor ticket sales, I only mentioned poor album sales as being an indicator/contributory factor of poor ticket sales along with them being far too expensive.
I really think selling out BST in Hyde Park with 60k tickets each night two years ago set false expectations. It seems like they are now expecting ticket sales equivalent to Springsteen, The Stones or Guns n Roses - who easily sell out big stadiums at high prices.
I also think that the unusual circumstances of BST are being overlooked. In 2022 we were emerging from the pandemic, many people had been stuck in their houses for best part of 2 years and desperate to get out and experience a live event, plus they had extra disposable income because of not being able to go out… and that wasn’t just local fans, the travelling fans also had spare cash and were able to travel again.
This year we have a cost of living crisis, most people have less disposable income because of increased costs for other things, the pandemic is a distant memory and there’s more competition from other tours. It’s also not as attractive for the travelling fans to head to Europe to city hop for one show in most cities in larger venues especially when they’re also touring the US and Australia/NZ this year.
It’s not the ticket prices it’s the late announcement when lots of people had already booked to see other concerts
All the noise on social media over the last few months points to it being the ticket prices
Exactly- of course it’s the price. Second they are touring a bombing album
Is it bombing? Reached #2 here with minimal promotion. Doing no different to other similar bands from the same era.
Reached number 2 briefly then tumbled. It lasted about a week on the Billboard charts- there are a multitude of 50 year old albums that are selling better than it. See article below and bear in mind that it’s a month old. It’s definitely not selling as expected.
Original post updated for charts for week ending June 15, 2024.
"Wreckage" climbs to No. 9 at alternative radio, No. 8 at mainstream rock and No. 6 at Triple-A. It also moves up from No. 36 to No. 28 on the Canada Rock chart.
Dark Matter hangs on in the top 50 of Top Current Album Sales for a seventh week, selling between 1,700 and 1,800 copies.
“ In its second week on the Billboard charts, Dark Matter declines sharply on every list it appears on. It even fell off of at least one ranking it arrived on last time around.
The massive fall is perhaps most notable on the Billboard 200. Dark Matter opened at No. 5 last week on the ranking of the most-consumed albums in the U.S. It earned the second-loftiest debut of the frame, coming in behind Taylor Swift’s The Tortured Poets Department, of course. Now, it’s barely hanging on, and it may disappear from the tally shortly.”
That was a month ago- it is no longer on the Billboard 200 chart. Anyway this thread is about the poor ticket sales, I only mentioned poor album sales as being an indicator/contributory factor of poor ticket sales along with them being far too expensive.
I get your point… but I really don’t think a new album from a band that’s been around for 30+ years drives ticket sales. The poor sales are driven by the price of the ticket.
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I was listening to one of Kevin's Smith's Podcasts today, and they were talking some business. Demand for speaking engagements is down, there's a guy who runs the bar in LA and the traffic is down. They kept charging the same prices, while their expenses went up significantly.
I think we're starting to hit the wall. There's a number of bands and live performances struggling to move tickets. I guess the post covid demand is waning, and the higher prices are having an impact.
The challenge being, how feasible are tours for some of these artists on pre covid tickets prices, with post covid costs.
I get the feeling the next year or two might be interesting for live concert and entertainment industry.
I wish I had these problem. I have to deal with people with endless money and the whole fucking world wanting to come to the northeast to see them.
It might be cheaper to catch a flight to London and see them there. I heard that people were flying to Europe to see Taylor Swift because it was less expensive than trying to get tickets to her US shows.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Last Europe tour? They should have toured the Southeast US instead and would have sold more tickets with less overhead.
Probably not an outrageous take. Europe is an interesting study for this tour and this band.
I think Europe sells best when they are in more desirable locations for US travelers with a better path to follow. My guess is this tour is almost exclusively Europeans with very few USA/Canadian travelers.
Dublin is cool and wish I could have made that... then Hop on over to Manchester (weird spot to land on) then down to a London football stadium show?? They haven't played a football stadium since Soldier Field as far as I know, weird jump to make. That's just kind of a weird run probably doesn't appeal to much in terms of people outside those cities.
Dublin > Glasgow/Edinburgh Scotland > Manchester > London normal arena or BST which is basically a super cool festival it seems like - now that's a much better run that draws more interest from traveling fans and could easily be a couple thousand more tickets sold.
Then they randomly pop over to Berlin...okay so say thats where you start your visit....now you gotta go to fuckin spain after a few days in berlin and the surrounding area?? lol that's wild a huge swath of Europe is just skipped and you pop on a plane to Spain?- That's like playing NYC and then hoping over to El Paso and playing 3 shows between El Paso and Albuquerque .....the math does not math here - that is just illogical it must have been a massive pay day for the festival so they just threw in 2 extra barcelona shows without really wanting to be on the road.
A more ideal run here would be Berlin x2 > Munich or Frankfurt > France or Switzerland or Milan > Barcelona x1 > festivals - This allows travelers to follow the run, maybe even choose to skip a show so you hit 3 in Germany then several days in Northern / Central Spain before wrapping up a visit in Portugal.
Clearly they made a plan to just avoid going to some of their usual destinations. For me I passed on Europe not because of pricing but mainly because the path of travel doesn't make any sense for a visitor. If I am crossing the pond it isn't to exclusively follow PJ. I am going to spend a few days in each city and willing to skip a PJ show on the run to do it.
People like to say that these shows aren't mostly 10c but they are in fact mostly 10c. The general public doesn't care to go see pearl jam for $200 USD. 16 shows since 2021 and almost everyone I talked to had seen them multiple times, not a single first timer, and they were almost all 10c or former 10c members. I'm not saying I speak with everyone at these shows because I obviously don't but when you have limited data samples, extrapolation rules apply and these are just the facts.
Combine static and formulaic sets and the band if they continue to go overseas will need to player smaller venues or play a well laid out itinerary and cluster of cities that entices visitors.
The path of travel this time around hurts ticket sales in addition to the inflated costs in my opinion. It just didn't make sense to try and squeeze in visits and hit a few shows with the way it is scheduled.
I think the point of the travel path interesting, but honestly, more stops in Europe at the same prices makes it even more expensive and it is clearly a pricing issue here for the Europeans. Also I doubt they plan for people from the US to fill up seats here... There are enough Pearl Jam fans here on this continent. Don't worry.
I am feeling the impact on the cost of living myself (as most do). Flying has become quite expensive here (luckily), the cost of living, energy such as utilities and food has become more expensive. For example, most of the olive oil harvest last year got fucked due to climate change, so a bottle of decent olive oil cost almost a 100% more than before. Now spread that out to any other product. At the same time wages need to grow, but as we know they never grow as fast. It has never been easier to get seating at most restaurants and bars either. They also had to raise prices massively due to above reasoning and people can't afford it as often anymore. The climate change won't be stopped, so food prices will stay high. There are changes possible in many other sectors and especially the profit margins.
Unless the music industry and bands like PJ are preparing to hit a wall at some point, or simply stay in a credit financed bubble, like in the US, they better decide on a collective re-thinking on pricing and profit margin to lower 'costs'. Coming less often is not a solution, I think, because in order to stay relevant in a market artists nowadays need to tour. The new album hardly made any waves around here, and that is every album (thanks to easy availability on streaming) nowadays.
Of course they also feel the impact of higher costs like we all do, but there are options (reduced band, no unnecessary screen, local staff). And currently we all make 'less profit' why should musicians be any different?
Agreed . If your individual net worth is 50 odd million. And you earned that doing what you love. There will come a time when maybe you can just not earn so much
brixton 93
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
I wish I had these problem. I have to deal with people with endless money and the whole fucking world wanting to come to the northeast to see them.
It might be cheaper to catch a flight to London and see them there. I heard that people were flying to Europe to see Taylor Swift because it was less expensive than trying to get tickets to her US shows.
All I heard was americans when I went to Taylor Swift here in Sweden. 45% of the crowd was non-swedes. Felt like most of them were from the US. Hehe
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Was at a sold out Tool show in the O2 last week - no hits, no radio airplay, just a great band in the right venue at the right ticket price.
see also QotsA and Weezer/Smashing Pumpkin in the last 6 months.
Tottenham Stadium was a mistake.
Yeah definitely a mistake trying to sell those size venues in Europe-they have always been an arena band over here. They could put on a Spurs match in the afternoon and sell the place out, then the crowd might stay on for Pearl Jam!
They are eventually going to have to switch to a tiered pricing system for Arenas and larger venues. No one wants to spend 150+ for an upper deck seat. Simple as that.
I'll spend hundreds on a lower bowl seat if I have to, but my MAX for upper deck for anyone is at about 75 bucks
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It’s not the ticket prices it’s the late announcement when lots of people had already booked to see other concerts
All the noise on social media over the last few months points to it being the ticket prices
Exactly- of course it’s the price. Second they are touring a bombing album
Is it bombing? Reached #2 here with minimal promotion. Doing no different to other similar bands from the same era.
Reached number 2 briefly then tumbled. It lasted about a week on the Billboard charts- there are a multitude of 50 year old albums that are selling better than it. See article below and bear in mind that it’s a month old. It’s definitely not selling as expected.
Original post updated for charts for week ending June 15, 2024.
"Wreckage" climbs to No. 9 at alternative radio, No. 8 at mainstream rock and No. 6 at Triple-A. It also moves up from No. 36 to No. 28 on the Canada Rock chart.
Dark Matter hangs on in the top 50 of Top Current Album Sales for a seventh week, selling between 1,700 and 1,800 copies.
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It’s not the ticket prices it’s the late announcement when lots of people had already booked to see other concerts
All the noise on social media over the last few months points to it being the ticket prices
Exactly- of course it’s the price. Second they are touring a bombing album
Is it bombing? Reached #2 here with minimal promotion. Doing no different to other similar bands from the same era.
Reached number 2 briefly then tumbled. It lasted about a week on the Billboard charts- there are a multitude of 50 year old albums that are selling better than it. See article below and bear in mind that it’s a month old. It’s definitely not selling as expected.
Original post updated for charts for week ending June 15, 2024.
"Wreckage" climbs to No. 9 at alternative radio, No. 8 at mainstream rock and No. 6 at Triple-A. It also moves up from No. 36 to No. 28 on the Canada Rock chart.
Dark Matter hangs on in the top 50 of Top Current Album Sales for a seventh week, selling between 1,700 and 1,800 copies.
Interesting. The album doesn’t seam to be faring as well as the singles though. Not like days of old, people can just buy one song, so good single sales may not indicate good album sales. Don’t know how those songs are doing in Europe also.
They are eventually going to have to switch to a tiered pricing system for Arenas and larger venues. No one wants to spend 150+ for an upper deck seat. Simple as that.
I'll spend hundreds on a lower bowl seat if I have to, but my MAX for upper deck for anyone is at about 75 bucks
Agreed. There's no way I would willingly pay these prices for upper level, and if 10C put me up there w/ fanclub seats I would be ripshit.
It will be interesting to see how they move forward.
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2022: Berlin, Budapest, Krakow, Amsterdam II
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"Wreckage" climbs to No. 9 at alternative radio, No. 8 at mainstream rock and No. 6 at Triple-A. It also moves up from No. 36 to No. 28 on the Canada Rock chart.
Dark Matter hangs on in the top 50 of Top Current Album Sales for a seventh week, selling between 1,700 and 1,800 copies.
Alpine Valley 6/27/98
East Lansing 8/18/98
Knoxville 9/6/98
D.C. (Constitution Hall) 9/19/98
Nobelsville 8/18/00
Alpine Valley 10/8/00
Grand Rapids 5/19/06
Detroit (EV) 6/26/11
Wrigley 8/22/16
Wrigley 8/18/18
Noblesville 8/26/24
The massive fall is perhaps most notable on the Billboard 200. Dark Matter opened at No. 5 last week on the ranking of the most-consumed albums in the U.S. It earned the second-loftiest debut of the frame, coming in behind Taylor Swift’s The Tortured Poets Department, of course. Now, it’s barely hanging on, and it may disappear from the tally shortly.”
That was a month ago- it is no longer on the Billboard 200 chart. Anyway this thread is about the poor ticket sales, I only mentioned poor album sales as being an indicator/contributory factor of poor ticket sales along with them being far too expensive.
I also think that the unusual circumstances of BST are being overlooked. In 2022 we were emerging from the pandemic, many people had been stuck in their houses for best part of 2 years and desperate to get out and experience a live event, plus they had extra disposable income because of not being able to go out… and that wasn’t just local fans, the travelling fans also had spare cash and were able to travel again.
This year we have a cost of living crisis, most people have less disposable income because of increased costs for other things, the pandemic is a distant memory and there’s more competition from other tours. It’s also not as attractive for the travelling fans to head to Europe to city hop for one show in most cities in larger venues especially when they’re also touring the US and Australia/NZ this year.
I think we're starting to hit the wall. There's a number of bands and live performances struggling to move tickets. I guess the post covid demand is waning, and the higher prices are having an impact.
The challenge being, how feasible are tours for some of these artists on pre covid tickets prices, with post covid costs.
I get the feeling the next year or two might be interesting for live concert and entertainment industry.
It might be cheaper to catch a flight to London and see them there. I heard that people were flying to Europe to see Taylor Swift because it was less expensive than trying to get tickets to her US shows.
I think Europe sells best when they are in more desirable locations for US travelers with a better path to follow. My guess is this tour is almost exclusively Europeans with very few USA/Canadian travelers.
Dublin is cool and wish I could have made that... then Hop on over to Manchester (weird spot to land on) then down to a London football stadium show?? They haven't played a football stadium since Soldier Field as far as I know, weird jump to make. That's just kind of a weird run probably doesn't appeal to much in terms of people outside those cities.
Dublin > Glasgow/Edinburgh Scotland > Manchester > London normal arena or BST which is basically a super cool festival it seems like - now that's a much better run that draws more interest from traveling fans and could easily be a couple thousand more tickets sold.
Then they randomly pop over to Berlin...okay so say thats where you start your visit....now you gotta go to fuckin spain after a few days in berlin and the surrounding area?? lol that's wild a huge swath of Europe is just skipped and you pop on a plane to Spain?- That's like playing NYC and then hoping over to El Paso and playing 3 shows between El Paso and Albuquerque .....the math does not math here - that is just illogical it must have been a massive pay day for the festival so they just threw in 2 extra barcelona shows without really wanting to be on the road.
A more ideal run here would be Berlin x2 > Munich or Frankfurt > France or Switzerland or Milan > Barcelona x1 > festivals - This allows travelers to follow the run, maybe even choose to skip a show so you hit 3 in Germany then several days in Northern / Central Spain before wrapping up a visit in Portugal.
Clearly they made a plan to just avoid going to some of their usual destinations. For me I passed on Europe not because of pricing but mainly because the path of travel doesn't make any sense for a visitor. If I am crossing the pond it isn't to exclusively follow PJ. I am going to spend a few days in each city and willing to skip a PJ show on the run to do it.
People like to say that these shows aren't mostly 10c but they are in fact mostly 10c. The general public doesn't care to go see pearl jam for $200 USD. 16 shows since 2021 and almost everyone I talked to had seen them multiple times, not a single first timer, and they were almost all 10c or former 10c members. I'm not saying I speak with everyone at these shows because I obviously don't but when you have limited data samples, extrapolation rules apply and these are just the facts.
Combine static and formulaic sets and the band if they continue to go overseas will need to player smaller venues or play a well laid out itinerary and cluster of cities that entices visitors.
The path of travel this time around hurts ticket sales in addition to the inflated costs in my opinion. It just didn't make sense to try and squeeze in visits and hit a few shows with the way it is scheduled.
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
I am feeling the impact on the cost of living myself (as most do). Flying has become quite expensive here (luckily), the cost of living, energy such as utilities and food has become more expensive. For example, most of the olive oil harvest last year got fucked due to climate change, so a bottle of decent olive oil cost almost a 100% more than before. Now spread that out to any other product. At the same time wages need to grow, but as we know they never grow as fast.
It has never been easier to get seating at most restaurants and bars either. They also had to raise prices massively due to above reasoning and people can't afford it as often anymore. The climate change won't be stopped, so food prices will stay high. There are changes possible in many other sectors and especially the profit margins.
Unless the music industry and bands like PJ are preparing to hit a wall at some point, or simply stay in a credit financed bubble, like in the US, they better decide on a collective re-thinking on pricing and profit margin to lower 'costs'.
Coming less often is not a solution, I think, because in order to stay relevant in a market artists nowadays need to tour.
The new album hardly made any waves around here, and that is every album (thanks to easy availability on streaming) nowadays.
Of course they also feel the impact of higher costs like we all do, but there are options (reduced band, no unnecessary screen, local staff). And currently we all make 'less profit' why should musicians be any different?
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
see also QotsA and Weezer/Smashing Pumpkin in the last 6 months.
Tottenham Stadium was a mistake.
I'll spend hundreds on a lower bowl seat if I have to, but my MAX for upper deck for anyone is at about 75 bucks
2012: Atlanta
2013: London ONT / Wrigley Field / Pittsburgh / Buffalo / San Diego / Los Angeles I / Los Angeles II
2014: Cincinnati / St. Louis / Tulsa / Lincoln / Detroit / Denver
2015: New York City
2016: Ft. Lauderdale / Miami / Jacksonville / Greenville / Hampton / Columbia / Lexington / Philly II / New York City II / Toronto II / Bonnaroo / Telluride / Fenway I / Wrigley I / Wrigley - II / TOTD - Philadelphia, San Francisco
2017: Ohana Fest (EV)
2018: Amsterdam I / Amsterdam II / Seattle I / Seattle II / Boston I / Boston II
2021: Asbury Park / Ohana Encore 1 / Ohana Encore 2
2022: Phoenix / LA I / LA II / Quebec City / Ottawa / New York City / Camden / Nashville / St. Louis / Denver
2023: St. Paul II
2024: Las Vegas I / Las Vegas II / New York City I / New York City II / Philly I / Philly II / Baltimore
https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2024/06/06/pearl-jam-scores-two-new-top-10-hits-with-their-latest-smash/
It will be interesting to see how they move forward.
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -