TicketMaster's Fan2Fan is now Fan2Bot

schaefferlax

jimjam1982 said:

Long thread to catch up but at the end of the day...there is no way to 100% put a stop to scalpers/bots outside of unified laws and restrictions.

The current system is the best in a long time.  yes you have to be fast to get F2F.  yes it sucks that bots gobble up non-transferable tickets and put them on resale sites and sell TM login in info. Is it overwhelming and near impossible for 10c to manage - yes, can't hold it against them for not browsing those sites and revoking tickets it would be a never ending battle. it sucks more that no legislation exists to end scalping as its been a problem since the 19th century...

This still beats the crap out of of post cards and camping out overnight.

TM/Seat Geek/Vivid/Stub Hub whatever, they don't care because they charge fees based on % so they will never try to stop it. 

The rabbit hole to resolving the scalping/resale issue is deep indeed.

10C could just tell TM that F2F buyers need to have a 10C membership. Literally could be 2 boxes to verify member number and last name to prevent a bot just putting in a random number until it works. Some other kind of verification could be used if it needed to extend to non-10C members. F2F is POINTLESS if it is possible for the tickets to end up on stubhub for 3x...

At this point, with the technology we have, the only reason fans are getting boxed out is due to the greed of 1) TM and 2) the band. As much as it pains me to say that.

OfThePearl

It seems to me that the old 10c system that took all the things into account that we hold dear, became too big for 10c to handle. When they passed this process on to TM, of course TM could care less about what we deem to be fair/important/are accustommed to. They botched it up royally on the first go around, and refused to even attempt a reasonable facimile, this time. 10c cared about fan perceptions, TM does not, so they have no incentive to put in the time/money to create the outcome 10c used to produce (or at least attempt).
We just have to figure out how to best achieve our goals, with the hand TM now deals- which keeps changing. Ugh!

RatherStarved

Not the greatest pull in the world but just got Floor 4 Row C Sacramento.  

mcgruff10

Kids wanted Red baron pizza.  Ate one pie in seconds.  I Tried a slice, nasty 🤮 

craigraether

RatherStarved said:

Not the greatest pull in the world but just got Floor 4 Row C Sacramento.  

Saw those, ive been looking to see if they ended up on Tick Pick.. Awesome you landed those.. 

RatherStarved

craigraether said:

RatherStarved said:

Not the greatest pull in the world but just got Floor 4 Row C Sacramento.  

Saw those, ive been looking to see if they ended up on Tick Pick.. Awesome you landed those.. 

Thanks.  They’re good not great.  I probably refreshed that show at least 200 times today.  And for once I didn’t get asked for a security code.  BTW one ticket may be surplus if anyone has a Philly or LA trade.  

nicknyr15

mcgruff10 said:

Kids wanted Red baron pizza.  Ate one pie in seconds.  I Tried a slice, nasty 🤮 

That’s a great story for fan2bot thread. Maybe you should also post in the pizza thread 😂😂😂😂😂

RatherStarved

nicknyr15 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Kids wanted Red baron pizza.  Ate one pie in seconds.  I Tried a slice, nasty 🤮 

That’s a great story for fan2bot thread. Maybe you should also post in the pizza thread 😂😂😂😂😂

It’s probably a metaphor 

nicknyr15

RatherStarved said:

nicknyr15 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Kids wanted Red baron pizza.  Ate one pie in seconds.  I Tried a slice, nasty 🤮 

That’s a great story for fan2bot thread. Maybe you should also post in the pizza thread 😂😂😂😂😂

It’s probably a metaphor 

Maybe 

yosi

RatherStarved said:

nicknyr15 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Kids wanted Red baron pizza.  Ate one pie in seconds.  I Tried a slice, nasty 🤮 

That’s a great story for fan2bot thread. Maybe you should also post in the pizza thread 😂😂😂😂😂

It’s probably a metaphor 

I definitely sat there for a full minute trying to figure out how this connected to the thread…

OfThePearl

nicknyr15 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Kids wanted Red baron pizza.  Ate one pie in seconds.  I Tried a slice, nasty 🤮 

That’s a great story for fan2bot thread. Maybe you should also post in the pizza thread 😂😂😂😂😂

Maybe his kids were "Rather Starved"? (Who posted immediately prior)

SHZA

I would rather starve than eat your nasty red baron slice! 

RatherStarved

SHZA said:

I would rather starve than eat your nasty red baron slice! 

+1

Get_Right

SHZA said:

I would rather starve than eat your nasty red baron slice! 

Just slather sriracha on it, that shit makes everything taste good. Or maybe Mike's Hot Honey.

Wellwater Conspiracy

2-feign-reluctance said:

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/301792/official-complainers-thread#latest

Yeah no, I will never respect that type of thing. It's like when you set up to protest something and they create a "protest zone" so far away from the event that no media or people involved see any of it. It's a way to stifle dissent.

Wellwater Conspiracy

Zod said:

I thought I'd be contrarian and write the things that I do like about the current system:

1) Some of those lineups in the early 2000's to pick up tickets got pretty crazy.  I remember the Seattle 2000 lineups being extraordinarily long.  I don't missed spending hours in the will call lineup just to get the tickets.

2) There were a few times my tickets weren't as good as my brain had hoped.   If you know your seat locations months in advance you get over it.  If you picked up the tickets shortly before the show, that's a bit harder.

3) There is technically a chance (albeit slim) to upgrade.

I don't dislike the new system or anything.  There's some drawbacks, but there's some positives too.  

This is crazy talk. I wen to multiple shows in 2000 and 2003 and never waited more than at MOST 1/2 hr, and that's only because I didn't get there early.

Wellwater Conspiracy

OfThePearl said:

It seems to me that the old 10c system that took all the things into account that we hold dear, became too big for 10c to handle. When they passed this process on to TM, of course TM could care less about what we deem to be fair/important/are accustommed to. They botched it up royally on the first go around, and refused to even attempt a reasonable facimile, this time. 10c cared about fan perceptions, TM does not, so they have no incentive to put in the time/money to create the outcome 10c used to produce (or at least attempt).
We just have to figure out how to best achieve our goals, with the hand TM now deals- which keeps changing. Ugh!

How too large? Are you saying somehow in the last few years Pearl Jam became a bigger band than they were in 2000? 2009?

kmcmanus

Wellwater Conspiracy said:

OfThePearl said:

It seems to me that the old 10c system that took all the things into account that we hold dear, became too big for 10c to handle. When they passed this process on to TM, of course TM could care less about what we deem to be fair/important/are accustommed to. They botched it up royally on the first go around, and refused to even attempt a reasonable facimile, this time. 10c cared about fan perceptions, TM does not, so they have no incentive to put in the time/money to create the outcome 10c used to produce (or at least attempt).
We just have to figure out how to best achieve our goals, with the hand TM now deals- which keeps changing. Ugh!

How too large? Are you saying somehow in the last few years Pearl Jam became a bigger band than they were in 2000? 2009?

They had a bump in profile coming off the Rock ‘n Roll Hall of Fame induction in 2017 but that may have cooled back down by now

Gibson

Just had a friend nab a pair for Philly 2. Turns out he got charged for the tickets but ticketmaster gave him an error instead of confirmation. 

Interested to see how this plays out. 

Zod

Wellwater Conspiracy said:

OfThePearl said:

It seems to me that the old 10c system that took all the things into account that we hold dear, became too big for 10c to handle. When they passed this process on to TM, of course TM could care less about what we deem to be fair/important/are accustommed to. They botched it up royally on the first go around, and refused to even attempt a reasonable facimile, this time. 10c cared about fan perceptions, TM does not, so they have no incentive to put in the time/money to create the outcome 10c used to produce (or at least attempt).
We just have to figure out how to best achieve our goals, with the hand TM now deals- which keeps changing. Ugh!

How too large? Are you saying somehow in the last few years Pearl Jam became a bigger band than they were in 2000? 2009?

It was 2011.  2011 was when we brought the 10c website to it's knees for the Canadian tour.  They had to improv to TM to run it, and TM's been running it ever since.

craigraether

Gibson said:

Just had a friend nab a pair for Philly 2. Turns out he got charged for the tickets but ticketmaster gave him an error instead of confirmation. 

Interested to see how this plays out. 

are the tickets in his account? that happened to me in 2022, it was that the BOT error came up on checkout, so when the confirmation page loaded, the Firewall returned the BOT message, but the tickets were in the account. 

SHZA

Gibson said:

Just had a friend nab a pair for Philly 2. Turns out he got charged for the tickets but ticketmaster gave him an error instead of confirmation. 

Interested to see how this plays out. 

It's a pending charge that will fall off and he won't have the tickets 

danofun

SHZA said:

Gibson said:

Just had a friend nab a pair for Philly 2. Turns out he got charged for the tickets but ticketmaster gave him an error instead of confirmation. 

Interested to see how this plays out. 

It's a pending charge that will fall off and he won't have the tickets 

agreed. Had that happen once with at 533 error. Saw the credit card notification, celebrated, saw the error message, gutted... Was a pending charge and didn't get the tickets.

Zod

schaefferlax said:

jimjam1982 said:

Long thread to catch up but at the end of the day...there is no way to 100% put a stop to scalpers/bots outside of unified laws and restrictions.

The current system is the best in a long time.  yes you have to be fast to get F2F.  yes it sucks that bots gobble up non-transferable tickets and put them on resale sites and sell TM login in info. Is it overwhelming and near impossible for 10c to manage - yes, can't hold it against them for not browsing those sites and revoking tickets it would be a never ending battle. it sucks more that no legislation exists to end scalping as its been a problem since the 19th century...

This still beats the crap out of of post cards and camping out overnight.

TM/Seat Geek/Vivid/Stub Hub whatever, they don't care because they charge fees based on % so they will never try to stop it. 

The rabbit hole to resolving the scalping/resale issue is deep indeed.

10C could just tell TM that F2F buyers need to have a 10C membership. Literally could be 2 boxes to verify member number and last name to prevent a bot just putting in a random number until it works. Some other kind of verification could be used if it needed to extend to non-10C members. F2F is POINTLESS if it is possible for the tickets to end up on stubhub for 3x...

At this point, with the technology we have, the only reason fans are getting boxed out is due to the greed of 1) TM and 2) the band. As much as it pains me to say that.

I think it's more complicated than that.   All Fan2Fan is, is TM's reselling platform locked into a price.    They'd probably have to spend a bunch of $$ to rewrite the code, to input 10c info, then more code to sync it into the 10c datebase.

There are never going to spend that $$ or spend that effort for a single band.

Plus all scalpers would have to do is buy a single membership.

Resellers are always going to find a way, unless there's no transferring and no reselling.

Lost In Ohio

Just about the only way to stop it:

1) Line up outside the show venue with your ticket buddy.

2) Pay at the door. You're immediately given tickets which are then scanned.

For those who know, there's a Christian music festival called Winter Jam. It's something like $15 cash at the door. Members of their fan club get early admission to one show per tour.

Don't ask me how they get in Ticketmaster venues and away with charging cash at the door, but they do.

Of course that'd put the royal screwball on Wishlist pre-parties, fans traveling and merch lines, but the scalpers would be fuct.

Zod

Lost In Ohio said:

Just about the only way to stop it:

1) Line up outside the show venue with your ticket buddy.

2) Pay at the door. You're immediately given tickets which are then scanned.

For those who know, there's a Christian music festival called Winter Jam. It's something like $15 cash at the door. Members of their fan club get early admission to one show per tour.

Don't ask me how they get in Ticketmaster venues and away with charging cash at the door, but they do.

Of course that'd put the royal screwball on Wishlist pre-parties, fans traveling and merch lines, but the scalpers would be fuct.

or do what they did in 2018, which is almost the same as now, except there was no fan2fan.  You could only transfer a single ticket, which isn't entirely useful as only so many people go solo.   There was no way to ditch a pair for that tour.  Well technically you could share the bar code, but the knowledge wasn't widespread at the time. The barcode tech has gotten better over the past 6 years.

I'd say make 10c tickets non transferable, non-sellable

RatherStarved

I like the fact that you know your seats in advance now and if life happens and you can’t make the show you’re not prevented from selling.  I also like being able to hunt for face value tickets that I would otherwise never have had a shot at.  The system isn’t perfect but I still prefer it to the mystery envelope at will call and lost money if unable to go.  The main thing I’d like to see is the ability to resell below face.
  

JimmyV

RatherStarved said:

I like the fact that you know your seats in advance now and if life happens and you can’t make the show you’re not prevented from selling.  I also like being able to hunt for face value tickets that I would otherwise never have had a shot at.  The system isn’t perfect but I still prefer it to the mystery envelope at will call and lost money if unable to go.  The main thing I’d like to see is the ability to resell below face.
  

Agree with all of this. 

danofun

RatherStarved said:

I like the fact that you know your seats in advance now and if life happens and you can’t make the show you’re not prevented from selling.  I also like being able to hunt for face value tickets that I would otherwise never have had a shot at.  The system isn’t perfect but I still prefer it to the mystery envelope at will call and lost money if unable to go.  The main thing I’d like to see is the ability to resell below face.
  

👆

Lerxst1992

Zod said:

schaefferlax said:

jimjam1982 said:

Long thread to catch up but at the end of the day...there is no way to 100% put a stop to scalpers/bots outside of unified laws and restrictions.

The current system is the best in a long time.  yes you have to be fast to get F2F.  yes it sucks that bots gobble up non-transferable tickets and put them on resale sites and sell TM login in info. Is it overwhelming and near impossible for 10c to manage - yes, can't hold it against them for not browsing those sites and revoking tickets it would be a never ending battle. it sucks more that no legislation exists to end scalping as its been a problem since the 19th century...

This still beats the crap out of of post cards and camping out overnight.

TM/Seat Geek/Vivid/Stub Hub whatever, they don't care because they charge fees based on % so they will never try to stop it. 

The rabbit hole to resolving the scalping/resale issue is deep indeed.

10C could just tell TM that F2F buyers need to have a 10C membership. Literally could be 2 boxes to verify member number and last name to prevent a bot just putting in a random number until it works. Some other kind of verification could be used if it needed to extend to non-10C members. F2F is POINTLESS if it is possible for the tickets to end up on stubhub for 3x...

At this point, with the technology we have, the only reason fans are getting boxed out is due to the greed of 1) TM and 2) the band. As much as it pains me to say that.

I think it's more complicated than that.   All Fan2Fan is, is TM's reselling platform locked into a price.    They'd probably have to spend a bunch of $$ to rewrite the code, to input 10c info, then more code to sync it into the 10c datebase.

There are never going to spend that $$ or spend that effort for a single band.

Plus all scalpers would have to do is buy a single membership.

Resellers are always going to find a way, unless there's no transferring and no reselling.

Seems fairly easy to stop the fan 2 bots buying tickets. 

All they would have to do is set up code with a couple of rules. For example, fans that want to buy F2F within the first 72 hours of a Fan2Fan ticket being posted to Ticketmaster, need to have a TM account established for at least a year and to have attended a show in the region that matches the address for which is on their account information within the last three years. Accounts with resales above face value are not valid during the first 72 hours of a F2F ticket being posted.

 Plus, all of the “verification process” in the “verified onsale” should also apply here.

TM sells the tickets and scans us into shows. They have all of this info in our accounts. This stops setting up new accounts that are used only once to scalp.

This could be done very simply with code automatically for nearly free.