TicketMaster's Fan2Fan is now Fan2Bot

Wellwater Conspiracy

Have tried to "transfer" tickets 3 times so far on random days in the middle of the night for different shows. Every single time when the tickets were listed, I saw them by refreshing, got them in the cart and they were sold in less than a second. I cannot believe a human being was sitting and hitting refresh at 3:45 am on a Thursday morning, or whatever. The speed at which they were bought suggests that bots are now sniping the F2F. Keep in mind this is NOT NY or IL shows where tickets can be sold over face, TM scalpers are now selling their entire TM account (burner accounts) with the tickets included. Just a heads up, the little guy is getting screwed again.

HailHailVitalogy

Yeah, and the tickets on TickPick are the same rows and sections that were available on F2F. We should all hold off for a week or two. 

mpedone

I honestly do not think there's any reason for not allowing 10C members to sell to each other, aside from no one involved caring to put in the work to allow it. TM can set up multiple password-protected presales with access to only certain seats, so why not individual password-protected sales? I want to sell my tickets, they want to ensure I don't overcharge. Give me a password I can send to a buyer of my choosing. They log in, buy the tickets through the TM site, everyone wins!

SHZA

Wellwater Conspiracy said:

Have tried to "transfer" tickets 3 times so far on random days in the middle of the night for different shows. Every single time when the tickets were listed, I saw them by refreshing, got them in the cart and they were sold in less than a second. I cannot believe a human being was sitting and hitting refresh at 3:45 am on a Thursday morning, or whatever. The speed at which they were bought suggests that bots are now sniping the F2F. Keep in mind this is NOT NY or IL shows where tickets can be sold over face, TM scalpers are now selling their entire TM account (burner accounts) with the tickets included. Just a heads up, the little guy is getting screwed again.

Where were the seats? 

Gibson

mpedone said:

I honestly do not think there's any reason for not allowing 10C members to sell to each other, aside from no one involved caring to put in the work to allow it. TM can set up multiple password-protected presales with access to only certain seats, so why not individual password-protected sales? I want to sell my tickets, they want to ensure I don't overcharge. Give me a password I can send to a buyer of my choosing. They log in, buy the tickets through the TM site, everyone wins!

Short answer: we're no more special than any other fanbase and ticketmaster / PJ/ both don't need or want to invest time and energy into one more process that a number of people will complain about because they just lost out of the randomness of getting F2F when available.
Long answer: I'm sure there's some logic around fairness for all in why they don't. This simply promotes more people with high seniority putting in for all shows and making side deals for more money, rare merch, etc.

craigraether

I have checked 7 losses ( Seats) for LV they all match.. 2 for LA, Sec and Row,.,, and of course 4 losses for GA.. 

primussucks

This has happened twice to me as well for Indy tickets!  I was also getting suspicious of this!  Now that I see others having the same experience I know that's exactly what's happening!  This is not cool!!  Fans are getting fucked over big time!!

BigRedd

primussucks said:

This has happened twice to me as well for Indy tickets!  I was also getting suspicious of this!  Now that I see others having the same experience I know that's exactly what's happening!  This is not cool!!  Fans are getting fucked over big time!!

No no you have it all wrong. 10C and TM have our best interest at heart! 

RatherStarved

I was able to purchase a timed drop. 

TA243471

I think its the Russians

100 Pacer

RatherStarved said:

I was able to purchase a timed drop. 

👍

BigRedd

RatherStarved said:

I was able to purchase a timed drop. 

How good were the seats and for what show? Some shows its not worth the risk trying to flip for a couple hundred dollars and waiting too long not being able to sell on fan to fan later.

on2legs

mpedone said:

I honestly do not think there's any reason for not allowing 10C members to sell to each other, aside from no one involved caring to put in the work to allow it. TM can set up multiple password-protected presales with access to only certain seats, so why not individual password-protected sales? I want to sell my tickets, they want to ensure I don't overcharge. Give me a password I can send to a buyer of my choosing. They log in, buy the tickets through the TM site, everyone wins!

This would be awesome.  But some people would take advantage and ask for additional money to be sent via Venmo because the buyer and seller know each other.  It’s the anonymity part of the current system that helps keep things at face value. 

BigRedd

Bring back willcall. Most of these problems would be solved. And on top of that people putting in for multiple shows they have no zero interest in attending would be almost all but eliminated as well. This would allow those that actually want to go to the show a better chance of getting tickets in the draw. 

2-feign-reluctance

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/301792/official-complainers-thread#latest

mpedone

Gibson said:

mpedone said:

I honestly do not think there's any reason for not allowing 10C members to sell to each other, aside from no one involved caring to put in the work to allow it. TM can set up multiple password-protected presales with access to only certain seats, so why not individual password-protected sales? I want to sell my tickets, they want to ensure I don't overcharge. Give me a password I can send to a buyer of my choosing. They log in, buy the tickets through the TM site, everyone wins!

Short answer: we're no more special than any other fanbase and ticketmaster / PJ/ both don't need or want to invest time and energy into one more process that a number of people will complain about because they just lost out of the randomness of getting F2F when available.
Long answer: I'm sure there's some logic around fairness for all in why they don't. This simply promotes more people with high seniority putting in for all shows and making side deals for more money, rare merch, etc.

In my mind you would have the option of releasing tickets to the general public or selling directly to someone, but you could also limit this to Ten Club members, helping to ensure (though not guarantee) that Ten Club tickets stay in the club, or at least relatively close.

People are always going to make side deals. Even in the current system, I'm sure there are members with multiple accounts, either willing to share login info or to walk in with someone making side deals for tickets. I've seen enough people trying to do straight-up trades or sales that I think this would be worth the "risk". I've also seen a number of people trying to off-load tickets at LESS than face for non-sold-out shows or less good tickets - this would allow them to sell at face value and send some money back to the buyer without 10C cracking down on them for "making a side deal"; of course, this could also be avoided by allowing people to set their own price UP TO Face Value, but then that might undercut the Premium market.

I understand why they don't - it would be more work and they aren't really going to make more money doing this - I'm just saying that it would be possible, and less frustrating.

PJ_Soul

I hate the idea of forcing 10C members to sell only to 10C members.

ekwipt

BigRedd said:

Bring back willcall. Most of these problems would be solved. And on top of that people putting in for multiple shows they have no zero interest in attending would be almost all but eliminated as well. This would allow those that actually want to go to the show a better chance of getting tickets in the draw. 

👆 👏 👏 👏 100%

mpedone

PJ_Soul said:

I hate the idea of forcing 10C members to sell only to 10C members.

Honestly, I don't think it would be forced, but it would just be way easier to sell to other 10C members. As an example, in 2020, I managed to get 2 sets of tickets to Baltimore (got one in F2F, then upgraded). I made an arrangement with a fellow 10C member to sell them at face and walk in together, because we didn't want to risk a timed drop for that show. Would have been so much nicer had I been able to DM them a password and sell the tickets directly.

pjhawks

I've said this before (and was told I was wrong) but fan-to-fan while better for the band is worse for the consumer.   Consumer is much better off with a secondary market available to them.  I did not win tickets to Philly 1 or 2 but got tix for night 2.  So for Night 1 i'm pretty much shit out of luck with this f2f bs.  At least with MSG I can decide if I want to choose the price on the secondary market.  I'd much prefer the secondary market being available than f2f.  

nicknyr15

pjhawks said:

I've said this before (and was told I was wrong) but fan-to-fan while better for the band is worse for the consumer.   Consumer is much better off with a secondary market available to them.  I did not win tickets to Philly 1 or 2 but got tix for night 2.  So for Night 1 i'm pretty much shit out of luck with this f2f bs.  At least with MSG I can decide if I want to choose the price on the secondary market.  I'd much prefer the secondary market being available than f2f.  

Agreed. F2F sucks imo 

BigRedd

You can still pay for tickets on the secondary market. The biggest problem is the average joe can not sell these tickets for a small profit or even sell these tickets for face value if they wanted. This causes the market to have a monopoly with the professionals and the prices are much higher than they should be.

On top of that they are snatching up the good seats on fan to fan. 

So now the average joe who is trying to do the right thing and sell for face as we are being forced to do on their platform is actually helping feed the secondary market. 

mcgruff10

I was lightening quick about ten times.  This sucks.  

runstaples

When I missed one recently I thought to myself, "no human could have done that faster"...so it's nice to see a thread of people who agree. 

PJ_Soul

You should all just come to the Vancouver N2 show. Plenty of tickets to be had at face value, lol.

LukinAtU

last tour I tried a timed drop to get some GA from a guy. we corresponded via text. I never saw them...he even sent me a pic of the "sold" update he got.

mpedone

pjhawks said:

I've said this before (and was told I was wrong) but fan-to-fan while better for the band is worse for the consumer.   Consumer is much better off with a secondary market available to them.  I did not win tickets to Philly 1 or 2 but got tix for night 2.  So for Night 1 i'm pretty much shit out of luck with this f2f bs.  At least with MSG I can decide if I want to choose the price on the secondary market.  I'd much prefer the secondary market being available than f2f.  

I love the idea of it, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

craigraether

mpedone said:

pjhawks said:

I've said this before (and was told I was wrong) but fan-to-fan while better for the band is worse for the consumer.   Consumer is much better off with a secondary market available to them.  I did not win tickets to Philly 1 or 2 but got tix for night 2.  So for Night 1 i'm pretty much shit out of luck with this f2f bs.  At least with MSG I can decide if I want to choose the price on the secondary market.  I'd much prefer the secondary market being available than f2f.  

I love the idea of it, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

How about a simple transfer option, where you put in your account and the persons account, to both 10cs, you sign a this is not for profit, then TM does the F2F XFR just between your and the new buyer, only can be done once from OG buyer from 10c to another 10c member...or the seller can just list them if they want to. Side deals will happen, but not the gouging that is going on.
 

ComeToTX

it'll never happen but going back to physical tickets that have to be picked up the day of would solve a lot of issues.  now we have people with multiple accounts in their household putting in for tickets and people putting in for tickets that they may or may not plan on using.

washed in black

craigraether said:

mpedone said:

pjhawks said:

I've said this before (and was told I was wrong) but fan-to-fan while better for the band is worse for the consumer.   Consumer is much better off with a secondary market available to them.  I did not win tickets to Philly 1 or 2 but got tix for night 2.  So for Night 1 i'm pretty much shit out of luck with this f2f bs.  At least with MSG I can decide if I want to choose the price on the secondary market.  I'd much prefer the secondary market being available than f2f.  

I love the idea of it, but the implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

How about a simple transfer option, where you put in your account and the persons account, to both 10cs, you sign a this is not for profit, then TM does the F2F XFR just between your and the new buyer, only can be done once from OG buyer from 10c to another 10c member...or the seller can just list them if they want to. Side deals will happen, but not the gouging that is going on.
 

We used to be able to transfer tickets to another 10c member years ago, back when tickets were still will call. I did it just once, in 2006 for one of the NJ shows. But, it was 10c that had to make the arrangements manually, rather than through TM's system.

OceanSoul71

Has anyone bought a ticket from TickPick? I see cheaper seats than the PJ Premium on TM, but is that a safe site to buy?