TicketMaster's Fan2Fan is now Fan2Bot

BigRedd

marumaruko said:

PJNB said:

marumaruko said:

PJNB said:

and there it is.
"Only request tickets for shows you can definitely attend" 

This should be tattooed on our arms. You don't know if you can make it happen, don't request and wait until you can be sure. 
Tickets will be eventually available if everyone follows along. 

Also, before anyone says "But no one will restrain themselves" - that's the mindset that is hindering the people. Just do what is ideal and you'll see.  

There is no longer any reason to do that.

Fan to fan and no priority has made it that way.

I wholeheartedly disagree. There is no reason to be selfish and apply for all the shows, if you don't know for sure that you can make it.

Put rules in place that make it harder for those that do things like that. If not people will always abuse the system. Whats should be done and what will be done are two different things. 

pjl44

marumaruko said:

PJNB said:

marumaruko said:

PJNB said:

and there it is.
"Only request tickets for shows you can definitely attend" 

This should be tattooed on our arms. You don't know if you can make it happen, don't request and wait until you can be sure. 
Tickets will be eventually available if everyone follows along. 

Also, before anyone says "But no one will restrain themselves" - that's the mindset that is hindering the people. Just do what is ideal and you'll see.  

There is no longer any reason to do that.

Fan to fan and no priority has made it that way.

I wholeheartedly disagree. There is no reason to be selfish and apply for all the shows, if you don't know for sure that you can make it.

You see what happens with merch lines and those are out in public. Imagine what the same group of people is willing to do when no one is looking.

PJNB

pjl44 said:

marumaruko said:

PJNB said:

marumaruko said:

PJNB said:

and there it is.
"Only request tickets for shows you can definitely attend" 

This should be tattooed on our arms. You don't know if you can make it happen, don't request and wait until you can be sure. 
Tickets will be eventually available if everyone follows along. 

Also, before anyone says "But no one will restrain themselves" - that's the mindset that is hindering the people. Just do what is ideal and you'll see.  

There is no longer any reason to do that.

Fan to fan and no priority has made it that way.

I wholeheartedly disagree. There is no reason to be selfish and apply for all the shows, if you don't know for sure that you can make it.

You see what happens with merch lines and those are out in public. Imagine what the same group of people is willing to do when no one is looking.

Willcall and priority stops these problems 

JeBurkhardt

There is a world of difference between applying for shows you plan on attending barring unforeseen situations and applying for a bunch of shows that you only plan on going to if you get the kind of tickets you want. Of course things come up that keep you from going to shows. I got COVID a few days before I was supposed to see The Black Keys and had a granddaughter born the same afternoon we were supposed to see Mudhoney. 

ComeToTX

Exactly. 

mpedone

pjl44 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

ComeToTX said:

If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members. 

In about five seconds, I found decently priced decently located Stones tickets at MetLife for around $500. PJ is about two grand at MSG for decent seats. Yes it’s a stadium, but is PJ THAT much more popular than the STONES, or does PJ manipulate ticket prices and supply? Of course most will not see all the problems PJ causes with their ticketing policies on this forum, just  easier to blame issues caused by TM allowing bots. Selling $2000 tickets on a legacy basis for $180 causes a myriad of supply v demand problems, but almost all here see 10c tix as some sort of panacea.

And we never received an explanation how the lottery was conducted, which is what we are paying for, and how many apparently won as many as four NE shows which would seemingly be one in ten thousand odds.

Expecting to have the band share the algorithm used for a ticket lottery draw is an unreasonable expectation 

The algorithm, no, but maybe an email/post explaining that priority is gone and so you were putting in for a "package" and if your number was drawn you would be sold that package (as available). Wait, that's exactly what they told us when they announced the tour? Weird.

I would be curious to see how many tickets 10C would get if they didn't "allow" TM to sell Premium tickets, and what they would cost.

On the people buying tickets to a slew of shows they know they might not be able to make, part of me hopes that these people get a little burned by being unable to set a price less than face and re-think their approach next tour. I think that's only likely in places with less demand, or if the premium tickets drop below 10C prices, though. And, unfortunately, that means well-meaning people get burned, too.

Lerxst1992

Get_Right said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.

And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”

PJ, that’s who.

I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.

Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five  NE shows?

 If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.

Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.

Zod

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.

And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”

PJ, that’s who.

I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.

Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five  NE shows?

 If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.

Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.

The odds would of been equal for every show, they way it's described.  If there's 5000 tickets, so 2500 pairs, and 10000 people put in for a pair, you have a 25% chance of getting a ticket kind of thing.

I think the challenge with this tour was the lack of priority.

PJNB

Zod said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.

And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”

PJ, that’s who.

I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.

Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five  NE shows?

 If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.

Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.

The odds would of been equal for every show, they way it's described.  If there's 5000 tickets, so 2500 pairs, and 10000 people put in for a pair, you have a 25% chance of getting a ticket kind of thing.

I think the challenge with this tour was the lack of priority.

We have gone over this multiple times but the odds are not the same when you take into account multiple wins. 

mpedone

PJNB said:

Zod said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.

And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”

PJ, that’s who.

I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.

Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five  NE shows?

 If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.

Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.

The odds would of been equal for every show, they way it's described.  If there's 5000 tickets, so 2500 pairs, and 10000 people put in for a pair, you have a 25% chance of getting a ticket kind of thing.

I think the challenge with this tour was the lack of priority.

We have gone over this multiple times but the odds are not the same when you take into account multiple wins. 

Multiple wins in this lottery are not the same as in previous lotteries. There were not separate draws for each US shows. It was one draw. If you put in for all of the shows, and your number came up first, you got all of the shows. So, it's not "What are the odds that someone gets drawn for MSG and Philly and Baltimore?" It's "What are the odds that someone who put in for MSG and Philly and Baltimore gets their number drawn before tickets to those shows are sold out?"

TA243471

mpedone said:

PJNB said:

Zod said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.

And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”

PJ, that’s who.

I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.

Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five  NE shows?

 If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.

Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.

The odds would of been equal for every show, they way it's described.  If there's 5000 tickets, so 2500 pairs, and 10000 people put in for a pair, you have a 25% chance of getting a ticket kind of thing.

I think the challenge with this tour was the lack of priority.

We have gone over this multiple times but the odds are not the same when you take into account multiple wins. 

Multiple wins in this lottery are not the same as in previous lotteries. There were not separate draws for each US shows. It was one draw. If you put in for all of the shows, and your number came up first, you got all of the shows. So, it's not "What are the odds that someone gets drawn for MSG and Philly and Baltimore?" It's "What are the odds that someone who put in for MSG and Philly and Baltimore gets their number drawn before tickets to those shows are sold out?"

If that were true, my family would have gotten a lot more tickets than I did.  I only ended up with Vegas.  I put in for Vegas, both seattle and missoula.  My wife put in for montana and 2 seattle, and got montana and 1 seattle. My brother put in for 1 vegas and 2 seattle, and only got 1 vegas and 1 seattle.  My son put in for 2 seattle and portland, and only got 1 seattle and portland.

yosi

mpedone said:

PJNB said:

Zod said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.

And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”

PJ, that’s who.

I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.

Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five  NE shows?

 If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.

Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.

The odds would of been equal for every show, they way it's described.  If there's 5000 tickets, so 2500 pairs, and 10000 people put in for a pair, you have a 25% chance of getting a ticket kind of thing.

I think the challenge with this tour was the lack of priority.

We have gone over this multiple times but the odds are not the same when you take into account multiple wins. 

Multiple wins in this lottery are not the same as in previous lotteries. There were not separate draws for each US shows. It was one draw. If you put in for all of the shows, and your number came up first, you got all of the shows. So, it's not "What are the odds that someone gets drawn for MSG and Philly and Baltimore?" It's "What are the odds that someone who put in for MSG and Philly and Baltimore gets their number drawn before tickets to those shows are sold out?"

What makes you think that was the case? Many people did not get for all the shows they put in? For two examples, see the post above mine. 

Zod

yosi said:

mpedone said:

PJNB said:

Zod said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Get_Right said:

Tm is driving all of of this. Tm is the bot. Ticket comes up who is the first to know? Then they appear on a resale site.They take ever ticket and maximize the value. Maximize very seat up until the date of the show. Make no mistake, it is TM grabbing every seat and then squeezing the consumer. You might do ok in a smaller market, but not on the east coast.

And who gave TM more control over the process of conducting the lottery, including but not limited to priority being eliminated (and screwing fans in difficult to get NE shows) because it was “too confusing?”

PJ, that’s who.

I agree. I do not think there is anything sinister with the 10C lottery, but after that all bets are off.

Not necessarily sinister but we are lacking an answer to a basic question…if these NE shows are so valuable according to PJs very own pricing metrics, how the heck did many win three to five  NE shows?

 If there are so many desperate to get tickets, odds had to be quite low for the NE leg. Old days, we got disclosure on the odds and how exactly the draw worked. Now I guess it’s too confusing or the resources aren’t there after nearly doubling the ten c fees.

Not that they owe us any explanation for the very thing we are paying for- full disclosure as to how the lottery is conducted - and how this seemingly impossible draw played out.

The odds would of been equal for every show, they way it's described.  If there's 5000 tickets, so 2500 pairs, and 10000 people put in for a pair, you have a 25% chance of getting a ticket kind of thing.

I think the challenge with this tour was the lack of priority.

We have gone over this multiple times but the odds are not the same when you take into account multiple wins. 

Multiple wins in this lottery are not the same as in previous lotteries. There were not separate draws for each US shows. It was one draw. If you put in for all of the shows, and your number came up first, you got all of the shows. So, it's not "What are the odds that someone gets drawn for MSG and Philly and Baltimore?" It's "What are the odds that someone who put in for MSG and Philly and Baltimore gets their number drawn before tickets to those shows are sold out?"

What makes you think that was the case? Many people did not get for all the shows they put in? For two examples, see the post above mine. 

I think the person's theory is that instead of drawing per show, they drew people's ballots, and filled the ballot with what was left.   Rather than a completely independent draw for each show.

If you put in for 7 shows, but 4 were already out of 10c tickets when your ballot got drawn, then theoretically you'd only get 3 kind of thing.

I don't know if there's any merit to it, but I thin that's what the poster is trying to say.

TA243471

Doesn't seem even remotely possible that either description could be correct.  Las vegas was one of the 1st ones drawn.  I found out about those tickets hours before they even started on Seattle or Montana, and I put in for all of those.  My cousin and her husband each put in only for Seattle and Montana, and one of them got both, and the other one got neither.

pjl44

TA243471 said:

Doesn't seem even remotely possible that either description could be correct.  Las vegas was one of the 1st ones drawn.  I found out about those tickets hours before they even started on Seattle or Montana, and I put in for all of those.  My cousin and her husband each put in only for Seattle and Montana, and one of them got both, and the other one got neither.

The lottery draw and email notifications are two separate actions. They could run the lottery, perform some kind of QC, then start sending announcements by show. Not saying this lottery theory is true or that's definitely how it went, but that's how it could be.

JimmyV

I won Baltimore and both Fenways. My card was charged midday for Balt and twice in the evening for Boston. Not sure that tracks if my name was only drawn once. Seems the charges would come right on top of each other in that scenario. 

craigraether

pjl44 said:

TA243471 said:

Doesn't seem even remotely possible that either description could be correct.  Las vegas was one of the 1st ones drawn.  I found out about those tickets hours before they even started on Seattle or Montana, and I put in for all of those.  My cousin and her husband each put in only for Seattle and Montana, and one of them got both, and the other one got neither.

The lottery draw and email notifications are two separate actions. They could run the lottery, perform some kind of QC, then start sending announcements by show. Not saying this lottery theory is true or that's definitely how it went, but that's how it could be.

Ive said before, seems to me that TM picked an order number as their starting point.... Let's say 100,000 people submitted orders and they picked order 50,000 as first order for the first show. All the orders after 50k were pulled for show 1, GA until ticket exhausted... Then moved on to P1 and P2 for the same show.. Based on the demand for each show would say people close but over order 50,000 got what they wanted... If someone put in for 12 shows and got GA for 9 of 12, their order was close to that order number. Many people reported getting most of thier GA requests and many reported not getting any GA but all seats. Then some reported being shut out completely ... What I stated above is really the only way those results would happen.. If you were order 49999 you got shut out. 

PJNB

craigraether said:

pjl44 said:

TA243471 said:

Doesn't seem even remotely possible that either description could be correct.  Las vegas was one of the 1st ones drawn.  I found out about those tickets hours before they even started on Seattle or Montana, and I put in for all of those.  My cousin and her husband each put in only for Seattle and Montana, and one of them got both, and the other one got neither.

The lottery draw and email notifications are two separate actions. They could run the lottery, perform some kind of QC, then start sending announcements by show. Not saying this lottery theory is true or that's definitely how it went, but that's how it could be.

Ive said before, seems to me that TM picked an order number as their starting point.... Let's say 100,000 people submitted orders and they picked order 50,000 as first order for the first show. All the orders after 50k were pulled for show 1, GA until ticket exhausted... Then moved on to P1 and P2 for the same show.. Based on the demand for each show would say people close but over order 50,000 got what they wanted... If someone put in for 12 shows and got GA for 9 of 12, their order was close to that order number. Many people reported getting most of thier GA requests and many reported not getting any GA but all seats. Then some reported being shut out completely ... What I stated above is really the only way those results would happen.. If you were order 49999 you got shut out. 

This makes a lot of sense with the results we are seeing and also goes along with them simplifying things on their end. 

Doing so if true sure does not make it fair for all. 

JojoRice

Definitely some shadiness going on.  My ticket buddy and I put in for the same 4 shows (Seattle 1&2, Wrigley 1&2).  He went 4/4 in the lottery and I went 1/4. 

on2legs

JojoRice said:

Definitely some shadiness going on.  My ticket buddy and I put in for the same 4 shows (Seattle 1&2, Wrigley 1&2).  He went 4/4 in the lottery and I went 1/4. 

But between you, you were 5/8 which is slightly better than 50%.  Not an unusually high rate.