A right of return for Ten Club seat tickets for Berlin - now!

bleecker

RatherStarved said:

bleecker said:

RatherStarved said:

bleecker said:

JackD. said:

FreddyMyer666 said:

linusvanpelt said:

Hi there 
i am also in a1 Both Nights and also very disapointed
question: what will happen when i tell my Credit Card Not to Pay the amount to Ticketmaster ?
will tm push through the demand ?

I'm sorry to say so, but that's not possible. CC-payments are guaranteed. The option to regain the money is only in case of fraud.

I scored both Berlin nights. Received A1 + E2 in the upper third rows. Unfortunately this is a huge let down. I get that seniority seating assignment. That's fair and I'm totally ok to sit behind loyal long time members. Having an obstructed view for EUR 175 (USD 190) is something completely different. I'm really dissappointed with that outcome.

What you just described I would call fraud. You were offered the best seats in the house and got obstructed view. Product handed over is not what’s been advertised. That‘s why I think OPs idea would be successful. But yeah, probably with the risk of being banned from all systems.

Nobody was offered best seats in the house. According to the original seating plan (see third post) your seat could have been anywhere from A1 to L2. It ist indeed strange that all TC seats appear to be located in A1 and E2, but these areas where part of the deal from the beginning.

It is true.  However they did not disclose the possibility of obstructed view.  

Also true. But we dont know how much of an issue that really ist going to be. I would think A1 with possible obstructed view might still be better than a lot of seats in the L or I section, at least the pricing for other Events indicates this. 

I’m personally in about row 16 and about 6 seats in from the next section so closer to the next section in than the wall.  I’m cautiously optimistic that might be a decent if not good seat (and if anyone has insight please share!)

However I definitely would not have entered the draw had they indicated the awarded seats may have obstructed views.  

And now the uncertainty is taking the joy out of planning.  Even if my seats end up being good I will be wondering about it for 4 months.  That’s not what anyone wants to buy.  

Fair Point. I did not enter the draw to avoid having bad seats but I think your seats are fine.

Zen23

bleecker said:

JackD. said:

FreddyMyer666 said:

linusvanpelt said:

Hi there 
i am also in a1 Both Nights and also very disapointed
question: what will happen when i tell my Credit Card Not to Pay the amount to Ticketmaster ?
will tm push through the demand ?

I'm sorry to say so, but that's not possible. CC-payments are guaranteed. The option to regain the money is only in case of fraud.

I scored both Berlin nights. Received A1 + E2 in the upper third rows. Unfortunately this is a huge let down. I get that seniority seating assignment. That's fair and I'm totally ok to sit behind loyal long time members. Having an obstructed view for EUR 175 (USD 190) is something completely different. I'm really dissappointed with that outcome.

What you just described I would call fraud. You were offered the best seats in the house and got obstructed view. Product handed over is not what’s been advertised. That‘s why I think OPs idea would be successful. But yeah, probably with the risk of being banned from all systems.

Nobody was offered best seats in the house. According to the original seating plan (see OP) your seat could have been anywhere from A1 to L2. It is indeed strange that all TC seats appear to be located in A1 and E2, but these areas where part of the deal from the beginning.

Correct. They were part of the deal. But they should have been marked as possibly obstructed view. Eventim handles it the correct way. And it is precisely for this reason that permanently allocated seats in these areas are offered at a reduced price. And neither of these things happened in advance.

Get_Right

It would help to know people's 10C numbers seating in these sections.
Is the obstruction the speakers hanging over the stage? In my experience that would not be something considered "obstructed" from a ticketing perspective.  
When the 10C awards tickets, there is no qualitative analysis, they start with a section for certain 10C numbers and assign seats in a numerical sequence - row by row.
I believe that these side seats are considered to be good seats by TM/10C as they are close to the stage and side seats are usually have a great view of the stage.
The speaker set up would not typically be taken into consideration in an open amphitheater.
It is unlikely that the 10C or ticketmaster will do anything about this. Neither organization is known for its transparency or communication given the sales policy - all sales are final, no refunds, no returns.
Sorry for those that feel these seats are obstructed.
Go to the box office day of the show and try to get an exchange - cant hurt.

Good luck and enjoy the show no matter your seats!

LizJ

While we are still waiting for any kind of statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
No more „possible obstructed view“ for sections E2 and A1 anymore!
As of right now, these sections are not marked like that on Eventim anymore. 

As I don’t know what the obstructed view might have been based on, I don’t know how it possibly could have disappeared, so I can just speculate. 

Maybe no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to perform 75 % of the time only on the front part of the stage. 

So that’s good news, right? 

ilockyer

Get_Right said:

It would help to know people's 10C numbers seating in these sections.
Is the obstruction the speakers hanging over the stage? In my experience that would not be something considered "obstructed" from a ticketing perspective.  

I think the concrete walls could impact on the angle for many, along with the speakers. Some parts of E2 (left of this pic nearest the hedge) are quite likely to be very restricted once speakers are in and flight cases etc. stacked. 

It's a beautiful venue, the reasons for its existence much less so. 

LizJ

ilockyer said:

Get_Right said:

It would help to know people's 10C numbers seating in these sections.
Is the obstruction the speakers hanging over the stage? In my experience that would not be something considered "obstructed" from a ticketing perspective.  

I think the concrete walls could impact on the angle for many, along with the speakers. Some parts of E2 (left of this pic nearest the hedge) are quite likely to be very restricted once speakers are in and flight cases etc. stacked. 

It's a beautiful venue, the reasons for its existence much less so. 

You can find some more pictures of the venue and the specific sections here, too: 

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/301104/berlin-10c-reserved-seat-assignment-good-or-bad

TinaE

LizJ said:

While we are still waiting for any kind of statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
No more „possible obstructed view“ for sections E2 and A1 anymore!
As of right now, these sections are not marked like that on Eventim anymore. 

As I don’t know what the obstructed view might have been based on, I don’t know how it possibly could have disappeared, so I can just speculate. 

Maybe no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to perform 75 % of the time only on the front part of the stage. 

So that’s good news, right? 

Interesting! Sudden modification?

RatherStarved

LizJ said:

While we are still waiting for any kind of statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
No more „possible obstructed view“ for sections E2 and A1 anymore!
As of right now, these sections are not marked like that on Eventim anymore. 

As I don’t know what the obstructed view might have been based on, I don’t know how it possibly could have disappeared, so I can just speculate. 

Maybe no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to perform 75 % of the time only on the front part of the stage. 

So that’s good news, right? 

“Hi, Eventim, it’s Ticketmaster here.  Hope all is well.  Listen, for those PJ shows, your transparency is making us look bad.  Could you get rid of that obstruction label? It’s not like anything is for sale there anyway - we dumped it all into ten club.  Thanks bye.”

Zen23

What's all this nonsense? At other Eventim events, these areas are still correctly marked as obstructed view. How ridiculous is that now? I'm just imagining an awesome scenario. Ticketmaster gets angry emails from Pearl Jam fans demanding an exchange or a revocation. Rather than agreeing to this or marking these areas correctly themselves, Ticketmaster calls Eventim and asks them to remove the clear obstructed view marking for Pearl Jam from their site. Problem solved. I don't know what else to say.

Zen23

RatherStarved said:

LizJ said:

While we are still waiting for any kind of statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
No more „possible obstructed view“ for sections E2 and A1 anymore!
As of right now, these sections are not marked like that on Eventim anymore. 

As I don’t know what the obstructed view might have been based on, I don’t know how it possibly could have disappeared, so I can just speculate. 

Maybe no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to perform 75 % of the time only on the front part of the stage. 

So that’s good news, right? 

“Hi, Eventim, it’s Ticketmaster here.  Hope all is well.  Listen, for those PJ shows, your transparency is making us look bad.  Could you get rid of that obstruction label? It’s not like anything is for sale there anyway - we dumped it all into ten club.  Thanks bye.”

Two with the same thought.

LizJ

Zen23 said:

RatherStarved said:

LizJ said:

While we are still waiting for any kind of statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
No more „possible obstructed view“ for sections E2 and A1 anymore!
As of right now, these sections are not marked like that on Eventim anymore. 

As I don’t know what the obstructed view might have been based on, I don’t know how it possibly could have disappeared, so I can just speculate. 

Maybe no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to perform 75 % of the time only on the front part of the stage. 

So that’s good news, right? 

“Hi, Eventim, it’s Ticketmaster here.  Hope all is well.  Listen, for those PJ shows, your transparency is making us look bad.  Could you get rid of that obstruction label? It’s not like anything is for sale there anyway - we dumped it all into ten club.  Thanks bye.”

Two with the same thought.

+ 1

axeljohan

RatherStarved said:

LizJ said:

While we are still waiting for any kind of statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
No more „possible obstructed view“ for sections E2 and A1 anymore!
As of right now, these sections are not marked like that on Eventim anymore. 

As I don’t know what the obstructed view might have been based on, I don’t know how it possibly could have disappeared, so I can just speculate. 

Maybe no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to perform 75 % of the time only on the front part of the stage. 

So that’s good news, right? 

“Hi, Eventim, it’s Ticketmaster here.  Hope all is well.  Listen, for those PJ shows, your transparency is making us look bad.  Could you get rid of that obstruction label? It’s not like anything is for sale there anyway - we dumped it all into ten club.  Thanks bye.”

FWIW Ticketmaster is selling some tickets to the 10c-sections. Obviously at a Premium price. And with no indication that those seats could be view-obstructed. 

RatherStarved

axeljohan said:

RatherStarved said:

LizJ said:

While we are still waiting for any kind of statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
No more „possible obstructed view“ for sections E2 and A1 anymore!
As of right now, these sections are not marked like that on Eventim anymore. 

As I don’t know what the obstructed view might have been based on, I don’t know how it possibly could have disappeared, so I can just speculate. 

Maybe no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to perform 75 % of the time only on the front part of the stage. 

So that’s good news, right? 

“Hi, Eventim, it’s Ticketmaster here.  Hope all is well.  Listen, for those PJ shows, your transparency is making us look bad.  Could you get rid of that obstruction label? It’s not like anything is for sale there anyway - we dumped it all into ten club.  Thanks bye.”

FWIW Ticketmaster is selling some tickets to the 10c-sections. Obviously at a Premium price. And with no indication that those seats could be view-obstructed. 

I hope that’s worth a lot.  I just don’t know.  

TinaE

Zen23 said: RatherStarved said: LizJ said: While we are still waiting for a statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
no more “possible visibility obstruction” for sections E2 and A1!
From now on, these sections will no longer be marked this way at Eventim. 

Since I don't know what the visibility obstruction could be due to, I don't know how it could possibly have disappeared, so I can only speculate. Maybe there were no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to only perform at the front of the stage 75% of the time. 

So that's good news, right? “Hello Eventim, this is Ticketmaster. I hope everything is okay. Listen, on these PJ shows, your transparency is making us look bad. Could you remove this obstacle label? It's not like there's anything for sale there anyway - we threw everything into the Ten Club. Thank you bye."
Two with the same thought.

So that no one complains anymore. What an poverty certificate...

Zen23

No one has ever approached Pearl Jam and their stage builders in the past few days and told them to please pay attention to the people in areas A1 and E2 of the Waldbühne. Never.

Remember my words. I did not allow myself to be fobbed off by the standard email from Ticketmaster. I replied to their standard email again yesterday to say that I was aware of the terms and conditions. However, this is not a simple return or revocation. It is a case of misinformation in the run-up to the purchase contract between the customer and Ticketmaster GmbH in cooperation with the Pearl Jam Ten Club. And insisted on not speaking to the lowest level of customer support any further, but that this matter should therefore be passed on to the responsible department, which will deal with the matter correctly and within a reasonable time frame.

And not even a day later, the red "obstructed view" markings on Eventim disappear?! Let's be honest, we're still laughing about it. But what is more likely? That Ticketmaster Germany contacted Eventim Germany and told them to remove the fucking markings. Or that someone from these criminals is looking after the fans' interests and has personally called Pearl Jam's stage builders in America to tell them that they should take good care of the fans in the A1 and E2 areas?

Let's be honest. What's going on here!

JABK

This is exactly how politics work nowadays...don't answer complaining people, hide any trace of your mistake, don't you dare communicate transparency, don't admit your mistakes at any cost, close your eyes and ears and all the complaining people will magically disappear...

I just hope that someone communicates this to the band so that they do the stage setup so that the view is as good as possible 🍀🤞

JPPJ84

TinaE said:

Zen23 said:

RatherStarved said:

LizJ said:

While we are still waiting for a statement from 10c/TM, something magical happened:
no more “possible visibility obstruction” for sections E2 and A1!
From now on, these sections will no longer be marked this way at Eventim. 

Since I don't know what the visibility obstruction could be due to, I don't know how it could possibly have disappeared, so I can only speculate. 

Maybe there were no more speakers on stage or the band agreed to only perform at the front of the stage 75% of the time. 

So that's good news, right?

“Hello Eventim, this is Ticketmaster. I hope everything is okay. Listen, on these PJ shows, your transparency is making us look bad. Could you remove this obstacle label? It's not like there's anything for sale there anyway - we threw everything into the Ten Club. Thank you bye."

Two with the same thought.

So that no one complains anymore. What an poverty certificate...

Poverty certificate made me chuckle

Zen23

Had a 15 minute phone call with an Eventim employee. Someone who grew up with Pearl Jam! And who is unhappy that culture is getting more and more expensive. Oh man, the story gets better and better. What appears on the Eventim site for the two Pearl Jam concerts as a seating plan graphic is, according to him, specified by Live Nation / Ticketmaster and communicated to Eventim.

I bet my ass on it. Ticketmaster simply removed or had the marking removed after the complaints.

JABK

Zen23 said:

Had a 15 minute phone call with an Eventim employee. Someone who grew up with Pearl Jam! And who is unhappy that culture is getting more and more expensive. Oh man, the story gets better and better. What appears on the Eventim site for the two Pearl Jam concerts as a seating plan graphic is, according to him, specified by Live Nation / Ticketmaster and communicated to Eventim.

I bet my ass on it. Ticketmaster simply removed or had the marking removed after the complaints.

You can't make this up 🤣

RatherStarved

Someone should grab a screenshot of the forum page where someone posted it before the powers that be make thar disappear too!