Ok, quick overview of how the concert industry works (in the US): Live Nation offers bands a set fee to tour, plus a cut of ticket sales. Negotiations go back and forth about how many shows, what venues (Live Nation always pushes for amphitheatre tours, specifically the amphitheatres they own, which is most of them in the US) any restrictions etc. Anything the band demands that differs from the initial LN offer lowers the fee and/or percentage the band gets. So with this PJ tour, there’e very few Live Nation owned venues, which means they get a lower cut of the ticket sales (when playing LN venues LN offers higher % because they’re getting alcohol sales money to offset it). When the band demands a lot of fan club tickets, LN drops their up front fee to compensate. When the band demands limiting the amount of Dynamic Priced tickets (generally called Official Platinum, but in this case PJ Premium), the up front fee gets cut even more. By not allowing transfer of tickets, fee gets cut again. And even by playing Wrigley and Fenway, who don’t use Ticketmaster for ticketing, the fee for the band gets cut even more since Live Nation owns Ticketmaster and wants all ticketing to go through them. So the band is already leaving a lot of money on the table to play the venues of their choosing and limit the dynamic priced tickets, limiting resale and getting a large amount of tickets for the fan club. The band also has crew to pay, travel expenses, etc, so need to hit a certain financial mark to make the tour worthwhile. So they negotiate all the demands they want with the money they need to bring in, and settle on a pricepoint for tickets. It’s not ideal and i’m sure the band would like to see prices lower, but this is the reality of the concert industry. Whether the same price for the entire venue model is good or not is a whole different story, it does help people lucky enough to get close tickets, but sucks if you’re paying the same price in the nosebleeds. And their prices aren’t terrible. Red Hot Chili Peppers have $100 LAWN tickets for their amphitheatre tour this summer, anything in the pavilion is over $200 at most shows and there’s a lot of dynamic priced tickets as well.
My thought is there was likely some negotiation that had to take place to be able to get as many fanclub tickets as possible. Ticketmaster has been trying to wrestle back fan club allotments for the past 20 years. Almost all of the venues are in business with Ticketmaster so you can just say give us every seat or we’ll play somewhere else. It didn’t work out great when they tried that on the No Code tour. So they have to negotiate. TM prob says we will give you this many fan club tix but we want 10% to be PJ premium and so they sign off on it. By all accounts it seems like a ton of the best tix are still going to fan club members.
Now the standard pricing I think could use a little work. Who knows what goes into determining the price but I think they could alleviate some of the issues by having more pricing tiers. A GA ticket should cost more than one on the back of the floor or lower bowl. An upper deck ticket should cost less. So split that into 4 or more tiers. Make GA 250 a ticket, Front lowers 200, back lowers 150, upper deck 100 etc… however the math ends up working out. Let people pick which levels they are comfortable paying up to and whatever level you end up getting in the lotto that’s what you pay. I think a lot of people didn’t pick P2 as an option in the drawing because either 1 they didn’t want to pay almost the same price for an upper deck ticket as a GA ticket or 2 because they just assumed they would find a better ticket in the regular or fan to fan sale and it could become difficult to offload a P2 ticket if the demand wasn’t high enough because you can’t sell for a loss. F2F is a nice option to have but should also be able to let people sell for less than what they paid if the demand for their show isn’t as high as others.
I've often wondered if they have to do some sort of deal with TM in order secure enough fanclub seats per show. Does any other band have a similar fanclub structure to PJ?
And I totally agree they should start staggering the prices based on seat location. It shouldn't be almost $200 for upper desk AND up front.
100% they make a deal with TM for the fan club seats. But it sure seems like the band has lost some of their leverage, at least in NYC and LA. Either that or they have signed on for the dynamic pricing in those two high demand markets.
Using the ticket master filters, I see no difference between the “Standard” and “PJ Premium” prices. The only difference is seat location. Searching Sacramento and Los Angeles, the cheapest “standard” tickets were uppers for $175 plus fees. All lowers were priced close $500 and up. As best I can tell, the high $400 range is the starting “face value” price for any section were you would actually want to sit. Am I wrong? Did any person buy lower bowl seats for less than $500 per ticket with fees?
Everyone who won in the lottery got lower bowl seats for $185 per ticket with fees, which is the "Standard" price.
You say you don't see a difference but then say you see "standard" for $175 and "premium" for $400+. How is that not a difference between standard and premium pricing?
The “standard” price for lower bowl starts around $470 and goes to to roughly $900 or more. But you answered my question about 10 club seats in the lower section. I was genuinely confused because I got 10 Club waitlist and then got off the waitlist. My 10 Club code gave me the privilege of buying a single lower bowl seat in the range of $500 to $900 with fees and tax.
The $470-$900 prices aren't standard though. Anything above $185 is "PJ Premium." If you only saw high-priced tickets in the lower bowl, that just means standards are currently sold out.
I think the fan club misses the picture the harmful impact of Pearl Jam’s economic policies in whole.
Selling its most valuable products, GA and best seats, at way below FMV is a price control. This drives up prices that are not being controlled
that’s why PJ premium, and stub hub, seat geek, for PJ are so out of line with comparable concerts.
Also, guaranteeing a subset of fans this premium product for below cost, drives up demand in their class of consumers as well. Fans are going to see five to ten shows that they normally would not invest in, of prices weren’t under control.
. As these fans will invest in airfare, hotels, etc for additional shows they would normally not see, because they know they are getting something worth $1000 for $180. This drives down supply which ALSO increases prices of the FMV tickets, AKA PJ Premium.
True. The newer 10c members who wind up with $175 upper level tickets are also subsidizing the members who land $185 GAs and prime seats.
True my friend, but it’s a lot more than that .There is a reason more popular bands these days like the Foos, you can buy citi field GA pit for around $350. For Fenway PJ, the prices are much higher for stadium seats. For MSG $575, gets you five rows from the ceiling. Anything lower and it’s approaching $1000 quickly.
This isn’t Ticketmaster, this is Pearl Jam.
Not only are the upper levels subsidizing the close tickets, but selling GA or the really close seats to seniors for 80% less than fair value drives up the prices for everyone stuck on the outside every tour, and in NY that’s 90% of us. This policy also creates incentive for the seniors to buy more tickets to out of town shows, drawing them to MSG, further driving up prices for most fans looking shock at these prices.
even the face value exchange drives up prices. And the brokers have figured out how to sell tickets. They’ll always find a way.
PJ is meddling with economics, for which they have little experience and the result is prices are astronomical. The only one with clearly higher prices than PJ NY is Taylor. And she is astronomically more popular. Every other act I see on the broker sites is less $$ than PJ
My thought is there was likely some negotiation that had to take place to be able to get as many fanclub tickets as possible. Ticketmaster has been trying to wrestle back fan club allotments for the past 20 years. Almost all of the venues are in business with Ticketmaster so you can just say give us every seat or we’ll play somewhere else. It didn’t work out great when they tried that on the No Code tour. So they have to negotiate. TM prob says we will give you this many fan club tix but we want 10% to be PJ premium and so they sign off on it. By all accounts it seems like a ton of the best tix are still going to fan club members.
Now the standard pricing I think could use a little work. Who knows what goes into determining the price but I think they could alleviate some of the issues by having more pricing tiers. A GA ticket should cost more than one on the back of the floor or lower bowl. An upper deck ticket should cost less. So split that into 4 or more tiers. Make GA 250 a ticket, Front lowers 200, back lowers 150, upper deck 100 etc… however the math ends up working out. Let people pick which levels they are comfortable paying up to and whatever level you end up getting in the lotto that’s what you pay. I think a lot of people didn’t pick P2 as an option in the drawing because either 1 they didn’t want to pay almost the same price for an upper deck ticket as a GA ticket or 2 because they just assumed they would find a better ticket in the regular or fan to fan sale and it could become difficult to offload a P2 ticket if the demand wasn’t high enough because you can’t sell for a loss. F2F is a nice option to have but should also be able to let people sell for less than what they paid if the demand for their show isn’t as high as others.
I've often wondered if they have to do some sort of deal with TM in order secure enough fanclub seats per show. Does any other band have a similar fanclub structure to PJ?
And I totally agree they should start staggering the prices based on seat location. It shouldn't be almost $200 for upper desk AND up front.
U2, GnR, and Iron Maiden to name a few. Rage Against the Machine doesn't have a fan club but did everything they could to keep the vast majority of the prices down even if it meant they had to let a small percent go dynamic pricing.
Ok, quick overview of how the concert industry works (in the US): Live Nation offers bands a set fee to tour, plus a cut of ticket sales. Negotiations go back and forth about how many shows, what venues (Live Nation always pushes for amphitheatre tours, specifically the amphitheatres they own, which is most of them in the US) any restrictions etc. Anything the band demands that differs from the initial LN offer lowers the fee and/or percentage the band gets. So with this PJ tour, there’e very few Live Nation owned venues, which means they get a lower cut of the ticket sales (when playing LN venues LN offers higher % because they’re getting alcohol sales money to offset it). When the band demands a lot of fan club tickets, LN drops their up front fee to compensate. When the band demands limiting the amount of Dynamic Priced tickets (generally called Official Platinum, but in this case PJ Premium), the up front fee gets cut even more. By not allowing transfer of tickets, fee gets cut again. And even by playing Wrigley and Fenway, who don’t use Ticketmaster for ticketing, the fee for the band gets cut even more since Live Nation owns Ticketmaster and wants all ticketing to go through them. So the band is already leaving a lot of money on the table to play the venues of their choosing and limit the dynamic priced tickets, limiting resale and getting a large amount of tickets for the fan club. The band also has crew to pay, travel expenses, etc, so need to hit a certain financial mark to make the tour worthwhile. So they negotiate all the demands they want with the money they need to bring in, and settle on a pricepoint for tickets. It’s not ideal and i’m sure the band would like to see prices lower, but this is the reality of the concert industry. Whether the same price for the entire venue model is good or not is a whole different story, it does help people lucky enough to get close tickets, but sucks if you’re paying the same price in the nosebleeds. And their prices aren’t terrible. Red Hot Chili Peppers have $100 LAWN tickets for their amphitheatre tour this summer, anything in the pavilion is over $200 at most shows and there’s a lot of dynamic priced tickets as well.
Fenway and wrigley are now on Ticketmaster, not sure if LN is the promoter. PJ can likely get a comparable deal on booze and food if they tour non LN venues. But the bolded part is the key, by artificially keeping the majority of prices way below fair value, that explodes the cost to any tickets winding up on the secondary market. And THAT explodes the prices of PJ Premium.
And, by offering in effect 80% off to senior members for premium tickets to an unlimited amount of shows, that also limits supply for everyone else. If they were to limit privileges tickets to one or two per year, that would decrease prices on the secondary markets and PJ Premium.
this is the home of the folks who benefit from these policies, and I realize that some benefit is warranted, but allowing an unlimited benefit is having a big impact on PJ Premium and broker sites. PJ is manipulating the economics of their shows, and their broker tickets are far more than comparable rock acts who do not have such an aggressive manipulation of their tickets.
Using the ticket master filters, I see no difference between the “Standard” and “PJ Premium” prices. The only difference is seat location. Searching Sacramento and Los Angeles, the cheapest “standard” tickets were uppers for $175 plus fees. All lowers were priced close $500 and up. As best I can tell, the high $400 range is the starting “face value” price for any section were you would actually want to sit. Am I wrong? Did any person buy lower bowl seats for less than $500 per ticket with fees?
Everyone who won in the lottery got lower bowl seats for $185 per ticket with fees, which is the "Standard" price.
You say you don't see a difference but then say you see "standard" for $175 and "premium" for $400+. How is that not a difference between standard and premium pricing?
The “standard” price for lower bowl starts around $470 and goes to to roughly $900 or more. But you answered my question about 10 club seats in the lower section. I was genuinely confused because I got 10 Club waitlist and then got off the waitlist. My 10 Club code gave me the privilege of buying a single lower bowl seat in the range of $500 to $900 with fees and tax.
The $470-$900 prices aren't standard though. Anything above $185 is "PJ Premium." If you only saw high-priced tickets in the lower bowl, that just means standards are currently sold out.
I think the fan club misses the picture the harmful impact of Pearl Jam’s economic policies in whole.
Selling its most valuable products, GA and best seats, at way below FMV is a price control. This drives up prices that are not being controlled
that’s why PJ premium, and stub hub, seat geek, for PJ are so out of line with comparable concerts.
Also, guaranteeing a subset of fans this premium product for below cost, drives up demand in their class of consumers as well. Fans are going to see five to ten shows that they normally would not invest in, of prices weren’t under control.
. As these fans will invest in airfare, hotels, etc for additional shows they would normally not see, because they know they are getting something worth $1000 for $180. This drives down supply which ALSO increases prices of the FMV tickets, AKA PJ Premium.
True. The newer 10c members who wind up with $175 upper level tickets are also subsidizing the members who land $185 GAs and prime seats.
True my friend, but it’s a lot more than that .There is a reason more popular bands these days like the Foos, you can buy citi field GA pit for around $350. For Fenway PJ, the prices are much higher for stadium seats. For MSG $575, gets you five rows from the ceiling. Anything lower and it’s approaching $1000 quickly.
This isn’t Ticketmaster, this is Pearl Jam.
Not only are the upper levels subsidizing the close tickets, but selling GA or the really close seats to seniors for 80% less than fair value drives up the prices for everyone stuck on the outside every tour, and in NY that’s 90% of us. This policy also creates incentive for the seniors to buy more tickets to out of town shows, drawing them to MSG, further driving up prices for most fans looking shock at these prices.
even the face value exchange drives up prices. And the brokers have figured out how to sell tickets. They’ll always find a way.
PJ is meddling with economics, for which they have little experience and the result is prices are astronomical. The only one with clearly higher prices than PJ NY is Taylor. And she is astronomically more popular. Every other act I see on the broker sites is less $$ than PJ
It is Ticketmaster. Pearl Jam is not running the dynamic pricing of tickets. It is TM's algorithm calculates the prices for each seat. The band did sign off on it though.
Using the ticket master filters, I see no difference between the “Standard” and “PJ Premium” prices. The only difference is seat location. Searching Sacramento and Los Angeles, the cheapest “standard” tickets were uppers for $175 plus fees. All lowers were priced close $500 and up. As best I can tell, the high $400 range is the starting “face value” price for any section were you would actually want to sit. Am I wrong? Did any person buy lower bowl seats for less than $500 per ticket with fees?
Everyone who won in the lottery got lower bowl seats for $185 per ticket with fees, which is the "Standard" price.
You say you don't see a difference but then say you see "standard" for $175 and "premium" for $400+. How is that not a difference between standard and premium pricing?
The “standard” price for lower bowl starts around $470 and goes to to roughly $900 or more. But you answered my question about 10 club seats in the lower section. I was genuinely confused because I got 10 Club waitlist and then got off the waitlist. My 10 Club code gave me the privilege of buying a single lower bowl seat in the range of $500 to $900 with fees and tax.
The $470-$900 prices aren't standard though. Anything above $185 is "PJ Premium." If you only saw high-priced tickets in the lower bowl, that just means standards are currently sold out.
I think the fan club misses the picture the harmful impact of Pearl Jam’s economic policies in whole.
Selling its most valuable products, GA and best seats, at way below FMV is a price control. This drives up prices that are not being controlled
that’s why PJ premium, and stub hub, seat geek, for PJ are so out of line with comparable concerts.
Also, guaranteeing a subset of fans this premium product for below cost, drives up demand in their class of consumers as well. Fans are going to see five to ten shows that they normally would not invest in, of prices weren’t under control.
. As these fans will invest in airfare, hotels, etc for additional shows they would normally not see, because they know they are getting something worth $1000 for $180. This drives down supply which ALSO increases prices of the FMV tickets, AKA PJ Premium.
True. The newer 10c members who wind up with $175 upper level tickets are also subsidizing the members who land $185 GAs and prime seats.
True my friend, but it’s a lot more than that .There is a reason more popular bands these days like the Foos, you can buy citi field GA pit for around $350. For Fenway PJ, the prices are much higher for stadium seats. For MSG $575, gets you five rows from the ceiling. Anything lower and it’s approaching $1000 quickly.
This isn’t Ticketmaster, this is Pearl Jam.
Not only are the upper levels subsidizing the close tickets, but selling GA or the really close seats to seniors for 80% less than fair value drives up the prices for everyone stuck on the outside every tour, and in NY that’s 90% of us. This policy also creates incentive for the seniors to buy more tickets to out of town shows, drawing them to MSG, further driving up prices for most fans looking shock at these prices.
even the face value exchange drives up prices. And the brokers have figured out how to sell tickets. They’ll always find a way.
PJ is meddling with economics, for which they have little experience and the result is prices are astronomical. The only one with clearly higher prices than PJ NY is Taylor. And she is astronomically more popular. Every other act I see on the broker sites is less $$ than PJ
It is Ticketmaster. Pearl Jam is not running the dynamic pricing of tickets. It is TM's algorithm calculates the prices for each seat. The band did sign off on it though.
Exactly. And people seem to forget that the only reason they are even seeing these "dynamic" high priced seats is because they aren't selling. If these were all priced like the rest of the venue they would have sold out and people would complain about that. They clearly state that about 10% of the venue is "pj premium" aka dynamic prices. There are simply not enough tickets for everyone.
1994: Bridge School Night 2
1995: Sacramento, San Jose
1998: Sacramento
2001: Bridge School Night 2
2003: St. Louis, Champaign, Irvine 1, Irvine 2, Chicago, East Troy, Noblesville
2004: Grand Rapids
2006: Chicago 1, Chicago 2, Cleveland, Milwaukee 2
Ok, quick overview of how the concert industry works (in the US): Live Nation offers bands a set fee to tour, plus a cut of ticket sales. Negotiations go back and forth about how many shows, what venues
True for many tours but certainly not all tours. Springsteen does not work exclusively with Live Nation as one example. He gets a show by show guarantee from the promoter in each market, which is obviously often Live Nation, but like in the case of his upcoming San Diego and Vegas shows, not always. Those two shows are AEG shows and they were not sold by Ticketmaster.
Using the ticket master filters, I see no difference between the “Standard” and “PJ Premium” prices. The only difference is seat location. Searching Sacramento and Los Angeles, the cheapest “standard” tickets were uppers for $175 plus fees. All lowers were priced close $500 and up. As best I can tell, the high $400 range is the starting “face value” price for any section were you would actually want to sit. Am I wrong? Did any person buy lower bowl seats for less than $500 per ticket with fees?
Everyone who won in the lottery got lower bowl seats for $185 per ticket with fees, which is the "Standard" price.
You say you don't see a difference but then say you see "standard" for $175 and "premium" for $400+. How is that not a difference between standard and premium pricing?
The “standard” price for lower bowl starts around $470 and goes to to roughly $900 or more. But you answered my question about 10 club seats in the lower section. I was genuinely confused because I got 10 Club waitlist and then got off the waitlist. My 10 Club code gave me the privilege of buying a single lower bowl seat in the range of $500 to $900 with fees and tax.
The $470-$900 prices aren't standard though. Anything above $185 is "PJ Premium." If you only saw high-priced tickets in the lower bowl, that just means standards are currently sold out.
I think the fan club misses the picture the harmful impact of Pearl Jam’s economic policies in whole.
Selling its most valuable products, GA and best seats, at way below FMV is a price control. This drives up prices that are not being controlled
that’s why PJ premium, and stub hub, seat geek, for PJ are so out of line with comparable concerts.
Also, guaranteeing a subset of fans this premium product for below cost, drives up demand in their class of consumers as well. Fans are going to see five to ten shows that they normally would not invest in, of prices weren’t under control.
. As these fans will invest in airfare, hotels, etc for additional shows they would normally not see, because they know they are getting something worth $1000 for $180. This drives down supply which ALSO increases prices of the FMV tickets, AKA PJ Premium.
True. The newer 10c members who wind up with $175 upper level tickets are also subsidizing the members who land $185 GAs and prime seats.
True my friend, but it’s a lot more than that .There is a reason more popular bands these days like the Foos, you can buy citi field GA pit for around $350. For Fenway PJ, the prices are much higher for stadium seats. For MSG $575, gets you five rows from the ceiling. Anything lower and it’s approaching $1000 quickly.
This isn’t Ticketmaster, this is Pearl Jam.
Not only are the upper levels subsidizing the close tickets, but selling GA or the really close seats to seniors for 80% less than fair value drives up the prices for everyone stuck on the outside every tour, and in NY that’s 90% of us. This policy also creates incentive for the seniors to buy more tickets to out of town shows, drawing them to MSG, further driving up prices for most fans looking shock at these prices.
even the face value exchange drives up prices. And the brokers have figured out how to sell tickets. They’ll always find a way.
PJ is meddling with economics, for which they have little experience and the result is prices are astronomical. The only one with clearly higher prices than PJ NY is Taylor. And she is astronomically more popular. Every other act I see on the broker sites is less $$ than PJ
It is Ticketmaster. Pearl Jam is not running the dynamic pricing of tickets. It is TM's algorithm calculates the prices for each seat. The band did sign off on it though.
Exactly. And people seem to forget that the only reason they are even seeing these "dynamic" high priced seats is because they aren't selling. If these were all priced like the rest of the venue they would have sold out and people would complain about that. They clearly state that about 10% of the venue is "pj premium" aka dynamic prices. There are simply not enough tickets for everyone.
It's the first week. TM is trying to capitalize on the hype surrounding the announcement of the tour. Prices will stay high for some time and will normalize as the shows get closer. Maybe only 10% are labelled PJ Premium, but it sure seems like more than 10% are part of the dynamic pricing model. Very few face value tickets were had during the verified sale, especially for the major markets. TM is trying to sell the best MSG seats for $800 and up and it sure seems like more than 10%.
Ok, quick overview of how the concert industry works (in the US): Live Nation offers bands a set fee to tour, plus a cut of ticket sales. Negotiations go back and forth about how many shows, what venues
True for many tours but certainly not all tours. Springsteen does not work exclusively with Live Nation as one example. He gets a show by show guarantee from the promoter in each market, which is obviously often Live Nation, but like in the case of his upcoming San Diego and Vegas shows, not always. Those two shows are AEG shows and they were not sold by Ticketmaster.
Of course there’s always exceptions, like i know Tool used other promoters for their MSG shows this year. But most touring bands just use the default LN model because it’s easiest and they get the most out of it.
And until tickets stop selling, LN really has no reason to change the way things are going currently. Sure bands will complain, fans will complain, but they have a monopoly on the market and control most of the touring industry to where, if a band wants to do things to help their fans, LN still gets the cut they would normally get, and the lost money comes out of the band’s pockets.
If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want.
If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want.
They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days. It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.
If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want.
They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days. It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.
That’s what’s fans would like to believe but it’s wrong. Many of us who know spent months telling people that Springsteen fully knew what was going on with the ticket prices and everyone was like “Bruce wouldn’t do that to us. It’s Ticketmaster, they’re evil” and the like. Then he did an interview with Andy Greene of Rolling Stone and to his credit, he told the truth and said of course, not only did he know about the pricing but it was what he wanted. Just as with Bruce, Pearl Jam is a major business operation with the best people working for them. There is NOTHING that takes place that they are not informed about and sign off on.
If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want.
They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days. It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.
That’s what’s fans would like to believe but it’s wrong. Many of us who know spent months telling people that Springsteen fully knew what was going on with the ticket prices and everyone was like “Bruce wouldn’t do that to us. It’s Ticketmaster, they’re evil” and the like. Then he did an interview with Andy Greene of Rolling Stone and to his credit, he told the truth and said of course, not only did he know about the pricing but it was what he wanted. Just as with Bruce, Pearl Jam is a major business operation with the best people working for them. There is NOTHING that takes place that they are not informed about and sign off on.
Yep, blind ignorance isn't an excuse at my job and shouldn't be at theirs. A band can charge whatever people will pay, that's their prerogative. We just need to stop making excuses for them.
If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want.
They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days. It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.
That’s what’s fans would like to believe but it’s wrong. Many of us who know spent months telling people that Springsteen fully knew what was going on with the ticket prices and everyone was like “Bruce wouldn’t do that to us. It’s Ticketmaster, they’re evil” and the like. Then he did an interview with Andy Greene of Rolling Stone and to his credit, he told the truth and said of course, not only did he know about the pricing but it was what he wanted. Just as with Bruce, Pearl Jam is a major business operation with the best people working for them. There is NOTHING that takes place that they are not informed about and sign off on.
It is not wrong. I agree and have said the band signed off on it, but I highly doubt they are involved in the exact daily pricing details calculated by TM. They don't know that this row is going for $800 and that row is going for $1000. TM is running the premium and dynamic pricing, not the band. And I happen to think it is more than 10% of a given venue. There seem to be plenty of great seats if you have $1000 to spend on a ticket.
If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want.
They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days. It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.
That’s what’s fans would like to believe but it’s wrong. Many of us who know spent months telling people that Springsteen fully knew what was going on with the ticket prices and everyone was like “Bruce wouldn’t do that to us. It’s Ticketmaster, they’re evil” and the like. Then he did an interview with Andy Greene of Rolling Stone and to his credit, he told the truth and said of course, not only did he know about the pricing but it was what he wanted. Just as with Bruce, Pearl Jam is a major business operation with the best people working for them. There is NOTHING that takes place that they are not informed about and sign off on.
Yep, blind ignorance isn't an excuse at my job and shouldn't be at theirs. A band can charge whatever people will pay, that's their prerogative. We just need to stop making excuses for them.
Yup. Dead on. They can do whatever they want and have earned it but any fans that think the band isn’t aware of what’s happening have blinders on.
It does look like there are a crazy amount of premium tix available in Missoula right now, and I can’t imagine TM has them all released at this time. Would have to say more than 10% of that venue is premium.
If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want.
They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days. It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.
That’s what’s fans would like to believe but it’s wrong. Many of us who know spent months telling people that Springsteen fully knew what was going on with the ticket prices and everyone was like “Bruce wouldn’t do that to us. It’s Ticketmaster, they’re evil” and the like. Then he did an interview with Andy Greene of Rolling Stone and to his credit, he told the truth and said of course, not only did he know about the pricing but it was what he wanted. Just as with Bruce, Pearl Jam is a major business operation with the best people working for them. There is NOTHING that takes place that they are not informed about and sign off on.
It is not wrong. I agree and have said the band signed off on it, but I highly doubt they are involved in the exact daily pricing details calculated by TM. They don't know that this row is going for $800 and that row is going for $1000. TM is running the premium and dynamic pricing, not the band. And I happen to think it is more than 10% of a given venue. There seem to be plenty of great seats if you have $1000 to spend on a ticket.
The band agrees to a pricing matrix with the promoter that includes platinum tickets with dynamic pricing. They are fully aware of what's going on. Within the negotiations they can set a ceiling for how high they want prices to be able go. Of course, if they restrict the pricing too much, they're going to be paid less by the promoter. That is reality and trying to spin it any other way is just making excuses. Does that mean they get a notification every time a row changes price? Obviously not.
And I don't write the above negatively. I believe bands should be the ones to profit from their shows, not some random person on the street who has nothing to do with the music. It is no surprise that acts finally said they don't want that random person making 4X what the band is making on a ticket but they should also be upfront to their fans if that's the case, as Bruce was in the Andy Greene interview. The real problem I have with the system is the use of Verified Fan and other methods that seem designed to trigger panic buying.
I've been a 10C member off and on for ten years now (I am aware that this is not the longest membership, but this isn't a measuring contest) and I am absolutely appalled by the prices of tickets for this tour. The one thing that always stood PJ apart from all other bands was its connection to the fans, the determination to make it as great an experience as could be and the refusal to let its fans be ripped off and exploited in the name of capitalism (See PJ vs Ticketmaster).
The best example of this has always been the Ten Club, where we get rewarded for our loyalty by being allowed to buy tickets at a reasonable price, right down the front where the proper fans are, without needing to pay an absolute fortune for the privilege. These tickets for the Dark Matters tour UK dates are £160. ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY POUNDS. The cheapest tickets in the house are £120.
Pearl Jam, you have completely lost your way. You are not the band of the people that you once were, you will have lost the respect of thousands of fans with this blatant profiteering and the fact that you are doing this alongside Ticketmaster, of all companies, is frankly insulting.
I for one, will not be renewing my membership next time around and will be interested to see how many others will also leave.
I'm just disappointed.
I have been a tenclub member for 29 years. I have also been into math and economics for about 40 to varying degrees. You benefited until now off of superior exchange rates which gave you a false sense of the ticket pricing model. When all the data is equivalized the ticket prices have gone up abut $12 per tour for the last 4 tours on average. Welcome to balanced exchange rates.
We are in agreement so not sure if we are having a debate or not . The real travesty of this pricing/ticketing system is not so much the higher prices or TM's marketing techniques, but the removal of the best seats from the 10C sale.
“All the members of Pearl Jam remember what it’s like to be young and not have a lot of money,” Stone Gossard told lawmakers. “Many Pearl Jam fans are teenagers that do not have the money to pay $30 or more that is often charged for tickets today. It is well known in our industry that some portion of the service charges Ticketmaster collects on its sale of tickets is distributed back to the promoters and the venues. It is this incestuous relationship and the lack of any national competition for Ticketmaster that has created this situation we’re dealing with today.”
Quote Stone Gossard
Stone Gossard continued, “As a result, our band which is concerned with keeping the price of tickets low will almost always be in conflict with Ticketmaster, which has every incentive to try to find ways to increase the price of the ticket it sells.”
When you are corrupted by money you forget the statements you once made
Yes, because the value of the dollar and the nature of the music industry and the revenue it generates are exactly the same as they were in 1994. Also, people who were teenagers in 1994 are still teenagers in 2024.
$1 in 1994 is worth $2.10 today
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I've been a 10C member off and on for ten years now (I am aware that this is not the longest membership, but this isn't a measuring contest) and I am absolutely appalled by the prices of tickets for this tour. The one thing that always stood PJ apart from all other bands was its connection to the fans, the determination to make it as great an experience as could be and the refusal to let its fans be ripped off and exploited in the name of capitalism (See PJ vs Ticketmaster).
The best example of this has always been the Ten Club, where we get rewarded for our loyalty by being allowed to buy tickets at a reasonable price, right down the front where the proper fans are, without needing to pay an absolute fortune for the privilege. These tickets for the Dark Matters tour UK dates are £160. ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY POUNDS. The cheapest tickets in the house are £120.
Pearl Jam, you have completely lost your way. You are not the band of the people that you once were, you will have lost the respect of thousands of fans with this blatant profiteering and the fact that you are doing this alongside Ticketmaster, of all companies, is frankly insulting.
I for one, will not be renewing my membership next time around and will be interested to see how many others will also leave.
I'm just disappointed.
I have been a tenclub member for 29 years. I have also been into math and economics for about 40 to varying degrees. You benefited until now off of superior exchange rates which gave you a false sense of the ticket pricing model. When all the data is equivalized the ticket prices have gone up abut $12 per tour for the last 4 tours on average. Welcome to balanced exchange rates.
Green Day are playing a sold out 80k Wembley Stadium in London for £84 the same day PJ are playing a half empty 60k Tottenham Stadium at £160. Green day are bigger than Pearl Jam in the UK, quite considerably too. Are green day using a different exchange rate? It's just a massive misunderstanding of the market and their value in it. Hence why there's about 30k tickets unsold days after it going on sale.
Sadly, after being a fan club member since 1994, being a fan club member no longer gets you at least 2 tickets to a show and at a fair price. I came off the waitlist on Friday for one of the 5 shows I registered for (Philly 9/9). The best seats I was offered tickets for were in the first seating section off of the floor seating/pit in the 4th to last row stage left for $667 PER TICKET! That is disgusting and I have lost A LOT of respect for the band. This was the band I grew up with and if I had to say when asked the most important music in my life it would be PJ. I am happy to pay more because of the costs increases the last few years, the wages of all the tour workers, etc. $200/250 per ticket, $400-500 for 2 great seats would be steep, but I'd pay that. But $1334 for 2 tickets? $494 each for nosebleeds? No thanks, not enriching already wealthy "artists" and corporate a-holes like LiveNation/Ticketmaster.
Sadly, after being a fan club member since 1994, being a fan club member no longer gets you at least 2 tickets to a show and at a fair price. I came off the waitlist on Friday for one of the 5 shows I registered for (Philly 9/9). The best seats I was offered tickets for were in the first seating section off of the floor seating/pit in the 4th to last row stage left for $667 PER TICKET! That is disgusting and I have lost A LOT of respect for the band. This was the band I grew up with and if I had to say when asked the most important music in my life it would be PJ. I am happy to pay more because of the costs increases the last few years, the wages of all the tour workers, etc. $200/250 per ticket, $400-500 for 2 great seats would be steep, but I'd pay that. But $1334 for 2 tickets? $494 each for nosebleeds? No thanks, not enriching already wealthy "artists" and corporate a-holes like LiveNation/Ticketmaster.
That’s bad, a lot of us are in the same boat. I had a code for msg and the system locked for five minutes. I missed out on tickets by a few minutes according to posts in the porch. Prices immediately jumped to $900 for premium.
But what happened to rear stage tickets? They were sold for Seattle but not NY? Those of us with codes in TM at 10.15am like me would certainly have had tickets had they released with the verified onsale.
Also, The club has not disclosed how the lottery took place with the removal of the priority system. It’s a simple question from membership to the club, why did so many fans seemingly go four for four in the east indoor shows?
If each show was its own draw, as in the past , going four for four odds would be one in ten thousand, assuming ten percent odds for each. Some are suggesting there was one single lottery for the entire tour so if you got a good draw you would win five for five shows or ten for ten, and the rest of us, nothing. That is not a level playing field, as the rules tell us it was
it’s only fair the club disclose to us how this new system worked and why some got so lucky at ten thousand to one odds and so many got shut out.
To some people the band can't do anything wrong. PJ Premium is horseshit but I just bought a pair for almost $1,3000 and they are above 100 level. I know I don't have to pay it, but otherwise I'm way up top for almost as much money or I don't go. $1,300 for a pair of tickets that are worse than I would get with my 10c #. 25 years in the club for them to gouge me with the equivalent of scalped tickets, tickets that used to be fan club tickets every tour. I'm probably checking out after this tour but I needed to finally hit my 50th show. There aren't enough tickets, but there really aren't enough for the 10c sale when they save those seats pulled out to be legally scalped to their fans. Tell me I'm an asshole for paying that much but they gave me no choice.
To some people the band can't do anything wrong. PJ Premium is horseshit but I just bought a pair for almost $1,3000 and they are above 100 level. I know I don't have to pay it, but otherwise I'm way up top for almost as much money or I don't go. $1,300 for a pair of tickets that are worse than I would get with my 10c #. 25 years in the club for them to gouge me with the equivalent of scalped tickets, tickets that used to be fan club tickets every tour. I'm probably checking out after this tour but I needed to finally hit my 50th show. There aren't enough tickets, but there really aren't enough for the 10c sale when they save those seats pulled out to be legally scalped to their fans. Tell me I'm an asshole for paying that much but they gave me no choice.
Your choice was to wait and see how the market adjusts in the six months until the show. There will be other opportunities for tickets.
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on2legs
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Live Nation offers bands a set fee to tour, plus a cut of ticket sales. Negotiations go back and forth about how many shows, what venues (Live Nation always pushes for amphitheatre tours, specifically the amphitheatres they own, which is most of them in the US) any restrictions etc. Anything the band demands that differs from the initial LN offer lowers the fee and/or percentage the band gets. So with this PJ tour, there’e very few Live Nation owned venues, which means they get a lower cut of the ticket sales (when playing LN venues LN offers higher % because they’re getting alcohol sales money to offset it). When the band demands a lot of fan club tickets, LN drops their up front fee to compensate. When the band demands limiting the amount of Dynamic Priced tickets (generally called Official Platinum, but in this case PJ Premium), the up front fee gets cut even more. By not allowing transfer of tickets, fee gets cut again. And even by playing Wrigley and Fenway, who don’t use Ticketmaster for ticketing, the fee for the band gets cut even more since Live Nation owns Ticketmaster and wants all ticketing to go through them.
So the band is already leaving a lot of money on the table to play the venues of their choosing and limit the dynamic priced tickets, limiting resale and getting a large amount of tickets for the fan club. The band also has crew to pay, travel expenses, etc, so need to hit a certain financial mark to make the tour worthwhile. So they negotiate all the demands they want with the money they need to bring in, and settle on a pricepoint for tickets. It’s not ideal and i’m sure the band would like to see prices lower, but this is the reality of the concert industry. Whether the same price for the entire venue model is good or not is a whole different story, it does help people lucky enough to get close tickets, but sucks if you’re paying the same price in the nosebleeds.
And their prices aren’t terrible. Red Hot Chili Peppers have $100 LAWN tickets for their amphitheatre tour this summer, anything in the pavilion is over $200 at most shows and there’s a lot of dynamic priced tickets as well.
100% they make a deal with TM for the fan club seats. But it sure seems like the band has lost some of their leverage, at least in NYC and LA. Either that or they have signed on for the dynamic pricing in those two high demand markets.
even the face value exchange drives up prices. And the brokers have figured out how to sell tickets. They’ll always find a way.
PJ is meddling with economics, for which they have little experience and the result is prices are astronomical. The only one with clearly higher prices than PJ NY is Taylor. And she is astronomically more popular. Every other act I see on the broker sites is less $$ than PJ
U2, GnR, and Iron Maiden to name a few. Rage Against the Machine doesn't have a fan club but did everything they could to keep the vast majority of the prices down even if it meant they had to let a small percent go dynamic pricing.
this is the home of the folks who benefit from these policies, and I realize that some benefit is warranted, but allowing an unlimited benefit is having a big impact on PJ Premium and broker sites. PJ is manipulating the economics of their shows, and their broker tickets are far more than comparable rock acts who do not have such an aggressive manipulation of their tickets.
It is Ticketmaster. Pearl Jam is not running the dynamic pricing of tickets. It is TM's algorithm calculates the prices for each seat. The band did sign off on it though.
There are simply not enough tickets for everyone.
They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days. It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.
It is not wrong. I agree and have said the band signed off on it, but I highly doubt they are involved in the exact daily pricing details calculated by TM. They don't know that this row is going for $800 and that row is going for $1000. TM is running the premium and dynamic pricing, not the band. And I happen to think it is more than 10% of a given venue. There seem to be plenty of great seats if you have $1000 to spend on a ticket.
And I don't write the above negatively. I believe bands should be the ones to profit from their shows, not some random person on the street who has nothing to do with the music. It is no surprise that acts finally said they don't want that random person making 4X what the band is making on a ticket but they should also be upfront to their fans if that's the case, as Bruce was in the Andy Greene interview. The real problem I have with the system is the use of Verified Fan and other methods that seem designed to trigger panic buying.
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For Berlin it is ridiculous to sell the seats in the upper area for 175 €. Totally misunderstanding of the value.
Also, The club has not disclosed how the lottery took place with the removal of the priority system. It’s a simple question from membership to the club, why did so many fans seemingly go four for four in the east indoor shows?
If each show was its own draw, as in the past , going four for four odds would be one in ten thousand, assuming ten percent odds for each. Some are suggesting there was one single lottery for the entire tour so if you got a good draw you would win five for five shows or ten for ten, and the rest of us, nothing. That is not a level playing field, as the rules tell us it was
it’s only fair the club disclose to us how this new system worked and why some got so lucky at ten thousand to one odds and so many got shut out.
$1,300 for a pair of tickets that are worse than I would get with my 10c #. 25 years in the club for them to gouge me with the equivalent of scalped tickets, tickets that used to be fan club tickets every tour. I'm probably checking out after this tour but I needed to finally hit my 50th show. There aren't enough tickets, but there really aren't enough for the 10c sale when they save those seats pulled out to be legally scalped to their fans. Tell me I'm an asshole for paying that much but they gave me no choice.