Options = boxes. Sorry you would interpret it any other way. Otherwise what would be the point of the disclaimer??
Agree, options = boxes. It doesn't say "selecting all options [or boxes] will increase your chances." It says "select all options below for Best Available." It then goes on to say "selecting multiple seat preferences will increase your chances." If "multiple seat preferences" was just another way of saying "options" [or boxes], they would have said "selecting all options below will increase your chances of getting tickets." Instead, they said selecting "multiple seat preferences" will increase your chances. That means if you select a single seat preference, i.e., P1 only or P2 only, you have a lesser chance than if you select multiple preferences, i.e., P1 + P2, or GA/P1 + P2, or GA/P1. It doesn't mean you have a lesser chance unless you select the same seat preference multiple times.
^^^^^^ THIS
"Holly f**k, that was so amazing, I just forgot who I came here to see!!" - Courtesy of the guy in the U2 t-shirt standing next to me in Aloha Stadium, Post PJ
You all are still arguing odds? Seriously? I thought it was pretty clear that this lottery didn't work the way we all assumed it would.
It actually worked out a bit better than I thought it would actually after last year lol.
We have time for a redraw, don't get complacent
I think you’re joking, but I doubt they’re going to have a redraw, as it would be difficult to prove a bad lottery here. When they had the seniority problem last year, that’s easy to prove without investigating what TM did. Members could compare results and it became obvious something was amiss. All we can say here is allegedly twenty or thirty or how many fans hit a PJ Quadrella when probability says it should be one in five or ten thousand. Can’t prove it and I doubt TM is admitting anything. In this case , it “seems” there is a chance that the same or very similar random number generator result was used for different shows.
it’s funny to the many here that try to make the point, hey just because one draw is independent of the other it’s very easy to get lucky twice. The truth is the randomness should make it much more difficult.
more importantly, is there a verified fan thread, when is that email coming out, tonight right? Can’t wait for that rejection, as the odds for an msg code must be way worse than winning the fan club lottery for MSG, helloooo stub hub.
Again, how is this a "bad draw"? Isn't it more likely that it's just a methodology we weren't expecting and don't like?
The methodology is a random sample draw. If odds are 10% for each of the very difficult Northeast shows to obtain, hitting four of these shows is one in 10,000. So if the fan club gets allocated 10,000 seats per show, one fan should have won four shows, no more. It's as simple as that
You all are still arguing odds? Seriously? I thought it was pretty clear that this lottery didn't work the way we all assumed it would.
It actually worked out a bit better than I thought it would actually after last year lol.
We have time for a redraw, don't get complacent
I think you’re joking, but I doubt they’re going to have a redraw, as it would be difficult to prove a bad lottery here. When they had the seniority problem last year, that’s easy to prove without investigating what TM did. Members could compare results and it became obvious something was amiss. All we can say here is allegedly twenty or thirty or how many fans hit a PJ Quadrella when probability says it should be one in five or ten thousand. Can’t prove it and I doubt TM is admitting anything. In this case , it “seems” there is a chance that the same or very similar random number generator result was used for different shows.
it’s funny to the many here that try to make the point, hey just because one draw is independent of the other it’s very easy to get lucky twice. The truth is the randomness should make it much more difficult.
more importantly, is there a verified fan thread, when is that email coming out, tonight right? Can’t wait for that rejection, as the odds for an msg code must be way worse than winning the fan club lottery for MSG, helloooo stub hub.
Again, how is this a "bad draw"? Isn't it more likely that it's just a methodology we weren't expecting and don't like?
The methodology is a random sample draw. If odds are 10% for each of the very difficult Northeast shows to obtain, hitting four of these shows is one in 10,000. So if the fan club gets allocated 10,000 seats per show, one fan should have won four shows, no more. It's as simple as that
We ASSUME the methodology is a random sample draw. Nowhere in the instructions does it specify how tickets would be drawn. Folks have suggested other methodologies TM may have used that would fit the reported patterns without glitches or broken code or any need for invalidation/redraws.
"I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 |
Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him. He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
You all are still arguing odds? Seriously? I thought it was pretty clear that this lottery didn't work the way we all assumed it would.
It actually worked out a bit better than I thought it would actually after last year lol.
We have time for a redraw, don't get complacent
I think you’re joking, but I doubt they’re going to have a redraw, as it would be difficult to prove a bad lottery here. When they had the seniority problem last year, that’s easy to prove without investigating what TM did. Members could compare results and it became obvious something was amiss. All we can say here is allegedly twenty or thirty or how many fans hit a PJ Quadrella when probability says it should be one in five or ten thousand. Can’t prove it and I doubt TM is admitting anything. In this case , it “seems” there is a chance that the same or very similar random number generator result was used for different shows.
it’s funny to the many here that try to make the point, hey just because one draw is independent of the other it’s very easy to get lucky twice. The truth is the randomness should make it much more difficult.
more importantly, is there a verified fan thread, when is that email coming out, tonight right? Can’t wait for that rejection, as the odds for an msg code must be way worse than winning the fan club lottery for MSG, helloooo stub hub.
Again, how is this a "bad draw"? Isn't it more likely that it's just a methodology we weren't expecting and don't like?
The methodology is a random sample draw. If odds are 10% for each of the very difficult Northeast shows to obtain, hitting four of these shows is one in 10,000. So if the fan club gets allocated 10,000 seats per show, one fan should have won four shows, no more. It's as simple as that
We ASSUME the methodology is a random sample draw. Nowhere in the instructions does it specify how tickets would be drawn. Folks have suggested other methodologies TM may have used that would fit the reported patterns without glitches or broken code or any need for invalidation/redraws.
If it's not completely random then that's something they need to disclose. They would be off the charts worse organization than take a master. That would be nasty to not be a random draw and not tell people what they're doing so they can try to make the best moves that they can possibly make
"It's a lottery, it is random" to anyone that crying that they didn't win....
Have no problem explaining away the long or extremely long odds that member after member are claiming to have achieved all over PJ internet. Even if 90% of these people are lying or exaggerating (results achieved with multiple accounts), even a handful of fans hitting million to one shots prove this was not a true lottery.
It was clearly a flawed process that did not replicate a random lottery, so it is reasonable for losers to be frustrated.
"It's a lottery, it is random" to anyone that crying that they didn't win....
Have no problem explaining away the long or extremely long odds that member after member are claiming to have achieved all over PJ internet. Even if 90% of these people are lying or exaggerating (results achieved with multiple accounts), even a handful of fans hitting million to one shots prove this was not a true lottery.
It was clearly a flawed process that did not replicate a random lottery, so it is reasonable for losers to be frustrated.
I know the logic of this post seems airtight to you, but others may not agree.
If you check out the Ticketmaster blog post for the NA tour, the wording for 'ticketmaster request' being used to power the fanclub presale, kinda maybe in a way leaves it open to the likely not so wild idea that if you put in for both shows and won the first, you were automatically chosen for both. The lotto being that you had to get picked in the first place.
Here’s another oddity to throw into the mix. I got the exact same seats for Seattle N1 and N2. P2 level. With all the combinations of fans who won at various levels what are the chances of that?
Okay, this is weird. That happened to us too. My husband got both Seattle shows, and they are the same exact seats for each night. That has never happened before.
"Holly f**k, that was so amazing, I just forgot who I came here to see!!" - Courtesy of the guy in the U2 t-shirt standing next to me in Aloha Stadium, Post PJ
Here’s another oddity to throw into the mix. I got the exact same seats for Seattle N1 and N2. P2 level. With all the combinations of fans who won at various levels what are the chances of that?
Wow, almost impossible
We got the same exact seats for both nights of Seattle as well. It has never happened before. It's been close before, but never the same exact seats.
"Holly f**k, that was so amazing, I just forgot who I came here to see!!" - Courtesy of the guy in the U2 t-shirt standing next to me in Aloha Stadium, Post PJ
Here’s another oddity to throw into the mix. I got the exact same seats for Seattle N1 and N2. P2 level. With all the combinations of fans who won at various levels what are the chances of that?
Wow, almost impossible
We got the same exact seats for both nights of Seattle as well. It has never happened before. It's been close before, but never the same exact seats.
But since it is statistically possible, there is nothing to see here. All the shows had a completely seperate random lottery. It just turns out your husband completely randomly drew the same seat for the second show in the same city. Again, random.
At least according to some folks around here.
"A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
Here’s another oddity to throw into the mix. I got the exact same seats for Seattle N1 and N2. P2 level. With all the combinations of fans who won at various levels what are the chances of that?
Wow, almost impossible
We got the same exact seats for both nights of Seattle as well. It has never happened before. It's been close before, but never the same exact seats.
But since it is statistically possible, there is nothing to see here. All the shows had a completely seperate random lottery. It just turns out your husband completely randomly drew the same seat for the second show in the same city. Again, random.
At least according to some folks around here.
The lottery drawing and the seat assignments are two separate processes. Under your theory, how do you account for the fact that most people who got tickets to both nights in one city did not get the same seats for the two nights?
Here’s another oddity to throw into the mix. I got the exact same seats for Seattle N1 and N2. P2 level. With all the combinations of fans who won at various levels what are the chances of that?
Okay, this is weird. That happened to us too. My husband got both Seattle shows, and they are the same exact seats for each night. That has never happened before.
It's also *more* likely for certain people to get certain seats. Let's say someone has 10C #1. If they get seats for both shows in a venue, unless the system actually changes which seat is the best, they would absolutely get the same seats each show, no?
Obviously as the 10C # increases the chances of that happening start to dramatically decrease. But it's not impossible for someone to be, say, the 100th lowest # pulled for both shows (even if the exact 10C # that are pulled ahead of them are not the same). Especially as you would imagine that many of the same people who are putting in for multiple shows in one city are the same.
That's different to all the things about winning GA multiple times etc. There's a perfectly logical path why someone might end up with the same seats. In fact, I'm slightly surprised we don't see it more.
Here’s another oddity to throw into the mix. I got the exact same seats for Seattle N1 and N2. P2 level. With all the combinations of fans who won at various levels what are the chances of that?
Okay, this is weird. That happened to us too. My husband got both Seattle shows, and they are the same exact seats for each night. That has never happened before.
Curious what section and what member number?
Section 12, I think row 4 or 5. He has a very low 10c number. So, they have been similar seats in previous draws. That being said, they have never been the exact same seats. And in Vancouver BC, where he also won both nights, they are not the exact same seats.
We've known there were issues with the TM seating from the beginning because his number is so low. You know everyone around you, you've been sitting near them for decades. We know a lot of their numbers, yet once TM took over the draw/seating there have always been people with higher numbers than his seated in front of us at every show. A friend who has a 10c that is more than double my husbands was seated in row one, in the first side section, in Ottawa I think it was, and we were seated in row 3. The friend was surprised, no one could make sense of it. We never really mentioned it because "first world problems." We wondered if maybe TM was seating in blocks or something.
Post edited by LukinTimer on
"Holly f**k, that was so amazing, I just forgot who I came here to see!!" - Courtesy of the guy in the U2 t-shirt standing next to me in Aloha Stadium, Post PJ
Here’s another oddity to throw into the mix. I got the exact same seats for Seattle N1 and N2. P2 level. With all the combinations of fans who won at various levels what are the chances of that?
Okay, this is weird. That happened to us too. My husband got both Seattle shows, and they are the same exact seats for each night. That has never happened before.
Curious what section and what member number?
Section 12, I think row 4 or 5. He has a very low 10c number. So, they have been similar seats in previous draws. That being said, they have never been the exact same seats. And in Vancouver BC, where he also won both nights, they are not the exact same seats.
How does he know the Vancouver seats, I thought they hadn't be drawn yet?
How does he know the Vancouver seats, I thought they hadn't be drawn yet?
Doh, you're right! We got some seats through a Canucks season ticket holder. So, I was thinking of those seats, not the 10c ones. So, I guess we'll see where they end up being.
Post edited by LukinTimer on
"Holly f**k, that was so amazing, I just forgot who I came here to see!!" - Courtesy of the guy in the U2 t-shirt standing next to me in Aloha Stadium, Post PJ
You all are still arguing odds? Seriously? I thought it was pretty clear that this lottery didn't work the way we all assumed it would.
It actually worked out a bit better than I thought it would actually after last year lol.
We have time for a redraw, don't get complacent
I think you’re joking, but I doubt they’re going to have a redraw, as it would be difficult to prove a bad lottery here. When they had the seniority problem last year, that’s easy to prove without investigating what TM did. Members could compare results and it became obvious something was amiss. All we can say here is allegedly twenty or thirty or how many fans hit a PJ Quadrella when probability says it should be one in five or ten thousand. Can’t prove it and I doubt TM is admitting anything. In this case , it “seems” there is a chance that the same or very similar random number generator result was used for different shows.
it’s funny to the many here that try to make the point, hey just because one draw is independent of the other it’s very easy to get lucky twice. The truth is the randomness should make it much more difficult.
more importantly, is there a verified fan thread, when is that email coming out, tonight right? Can’t wait for that rejection, as the odds for an msg code must be way worse than winning the fan club lottery for MSG, helloooo stub hub.
Again, how is this a "bad draw"? Isn't it more likely that it's just a methodology we weren't expecting and don't like?
The methodology is a random sample draw. If odds are 10% for each of the very difficult Northeast shows to obtain, hitting four of these shows is one in 10,000. So if the fan club gets allocated 10,000 seats per show, one fan should have won four shows, no more. It's as simple as that
We ASSUME the methodology is a random sample draw. Nowhere in the instructions does it specify how tickets would be drawn. Folks have suggested other methodologies TM may have used that would fit the reported patterns without glitches or broken code or any need for invalidation/redraws.
If it's not completely random then that's something they need to disclose. They would be off the charts worse organization than take a master. That would be nasty to not be a random draw and not tell people what they're doing so they can try to make the best moves that they can possibly make
First, let's clarify. We assume that the draw will be done show-by-show, picking completely randomly from the members who put in request for that show.
However, what if it worked like this: We submit our request (said request being a list of all the shows we would like to purchase tickets for and our price tier preferences). Ticketmaster completely randomly draws members and fulfills as much of what is available for that request.
That is still "completely random", just not in the way we all assumed it would be.
Here's the wording from Ten Club's instructions:
"Step 3. Complete the ticket request form, including selecting the
date(s), the number of tickets you are requesting, and ticket type
preference.
Step 4. Once you’ve completed the form you
will be immediately directed to your Request Summary Page. You will also
receive an email acknowledging your ticket request, as well as
important rules and details on what to expect next.
Once the ticket request window has officially closed, no edits can be made.
TICKET CONFIRMATIONS
Ticket requests will be confirmed following the below schedule:
...
If your request is confirmed, you will receive an email with your
payment summary and details on upcoming ticket delivery. You will also
be notified via email if your request is not confirmed."
And, from the Ticketmaster blog:
"What is Ticketmaster Request?
Pearl Jam is using Ticketmaster Request to power this fan club
presale. Ticketmaster Request is a simple way to request tickets to
popular shows, so you don’t have to compete in a first-come,
first-served sale. You can take your time to review the available
options and request the right tickets for you. All you need to do is
tell us which show(s) you’re interested in, the type of ticket you want
and your payment details. If tickets that match your request are
available, your card will be charged, and we’ll email you instructions
on how to view them. Note: each show you are confirmed for will be
charged separately by Ticketmaster; the charge will appear as
Ticketmaster*Pearl Jam."
"How does the Ten Club ticket request work?
Complete your request in three easy steps. First, tell us what shows
and tickets you’re interested in. Then, provide a credit card to
complete your ticket request. If your request is fulfilled, your card
will be charged and we’ll email you a confirmation with instructions on
how to view your tickets during the week of February 19. Note: tickets
will not show in your Ticketmaster account until all seating assignments
are finalized."
"Can I request tickets for more than one city?
Yes. By submitting a ticket request for any show, you are committing
to purchase the ticket(s) should your request be fulfilled. For example,
if you enter for five shows, it is possible your request can be
fulfilled for all five shows in which case your credit card will
immediately be charged for tickets to all five shows. However, you can
only purchase up to two Ten Club tickets for each individual show. All
tickets will be non-transferable in all states except where it is
prohibited by law."
"How will tickets be determined for Ten Club members?
To level the playing field, ticket requests are fulfilled in a
randomized selection process. If selected for seated tickets, tickets
will be assigned based on Ten Club seniority within the purchased price
level."
Note how both keep referencing your "request" in the singular. Nothing about individual shows. Both are clear that you are "committing to purchase the ticket(s) should your request be fulfilled". I'm not the smartest person in the world, but it seems pretty clear to me that they selected members at random and fulfilled their entire requests (as possible). Thus, some people going x-for-x and others going 0-for-x. Still random, just not drawn the way we expected. Not the "best" system, but still a valid way to perform the lottery.
"I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 |
Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him. He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
There are people who don't want to or can't stand for hours in the pit. How much did not selecting GA/P1 lessen the chances for those who only selected P1? Next time they might consider having three separate and clearly definable options - GA, P1, P2 - and not mix any types together into one category. People could still select as many as they want to increase their chances of being in the building but it wouldn't penalize those who have reasons for not wanting the pit.
There are people who don't want to or can't stand for hours in the pit. How much did not selecting GA/P1 lessen the chances for those who only selected P1? Next time they might consider having three separate and clearly definable options - GA, P1, P2 - and not mix any types together into one category. People could still select as many as they want to increase their chances of being in the building but it wouldn't penalize those who have reasons for not wanting the pit.
It would have only lessened the chances a little because GA is so limited. To be honest anyone who wants seats should still go for GA because you would have no trouble trading down. You could pretty much pick what seats you want. Could prob go up to anyone in row 1 and ask “who wants GA?”
How has everyone done with seniority? Is it in alignment with what you thought?
"Holly f**k, that was so amazing, I just forgot who I came here to see!!" - Courtesy of the guy in the U2 t-shirt standing next to me in Aloha Stadium, Post PJ
How has everyone done with seniority? Is it in alignment with what you thought?
Tough for me to compare as I had F2F tickets for Baltimore in 2020 and only one of my 2018 Fenway tickets were typical for my number, but I've seen some members with similar numbers to mine in the same area of Baltimore and others with higher numbers in "worse" seats, so I'd say that's probably accurate. Fenway seats are better (IMHO) than 2018, but about what I expected.
"I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 |
Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him. He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
How has everyone done with seniority? Is it in alignment with what you thought?
Tough for me to compare as I had F2F tickets for Baltimore in 2020 and only one of my 2018 Fenway tickets were typical for my number, but I've seen some members with similar numbers to mine in the same area of Baltimore and others with higher numbers in "worse" seats, so I'd say that's probably accurate. Fenway seats are better (IMHO) than 2018, but about what I expected.
It's interesting that Fenway seats are better, especially as they added the big GA pit. I would think it would push good seats back further, but maybe not.
It's very difficult to make sense of the seating. My ticket buddy has a very low 10c number, in the 40,000's, and he didn't even get 1st side section in Portland. Which is odd. Previous to TM taking over the seniority seating, he was usually always in the 1st row in the first side section, except for hard shows, like MSG, Philly or Fenway. It's weird that it's in the second section over and a couple of rows up, as the 10c seating chart showed that there 10c seats available in the first section. But maybe it's only like 1 or 2 pairs that were available in the first section?
"Holly f**k, that was so amazing, I just forgot who I came here to see!!" - Courtesy of the guy in the U2 t-shirt standing next to me in Aloha Stadium, Post PJ
How has everyone done with seniority? Is it in alignment with what you thought?
Posted in another thread that died... I'm grateful for the tix and i'm sure they are great seats, just not sure how the best seat algorithm works: #105xxx Philly N1: Sec 115, Row 16 Philly N2: Sec 124, Row 2
How has everyone done with seniority? Is it in alignment with what you thought?
Tough for me to compare as I had F2F tickets for Baltimore in 2020 and only one of my 2018 Fenway tickets were typical for my number, but I've seen some members with similar numbers to mine in the same area of Baltimore and others with higher numbers in "worse" seats, so I'd say that's probably accurate. Fenway seats are better (IMHO) than 2018, but about what I expected.
It's interesting that Fenway seats are better, especially as they added the big GA pit. I would think it would push good seats back further, but maybe not.
It's very difficult to make sense of the seating. My ticket buddy has a very low 10c number, in the 40,000's, and he didn't even get 1st side section in Portland. Which is odd. Previous to TM taking over the seniority seating, he was usually always in the 1st row in the first side section, except for hard shows, like MSG, Philly or Fenway. It's weird that it's in the second section over and a couple of rows up, as the 10c seating chart showed that there 10c seats available in the first section. But maybe it's only like 1 or 2 pairs that were available in the first section?
Maybe fewer people going to Fenway this year? Wider spread of 10 Club sections? My opinion on "better" being different than others'?
2018 I had grandstand 28, near the back of the section. Under the roof and pretty far back. This year I'm in the loge boxes, so the sections in front of the grandstand, but N1 I'm closer to home plate (148), so probably technically farther from the stage, but in the 4th row, so closer to the field. N2 I'm on the other side of the field in 102. Looks like it's closer to the stage than GS28 or B102, and in the 5th row. I think that's definitely due to it being a Tuesday night in the middle of September.
I did get a general sale code at about midday today. Checked out what was available for non-premium, and it was all GS or higher. Didn't look at premium (the Red Sox site separated them, which is nice).
"I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 |
Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him. He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
You all are still arguing odds? Seriously? I thought it was pretty clear that this lottery didn't work the way we all assumed it would.
It actually worked out a bit better than I thought it would actually after last year lol.
We have time for a redraw, don't get complacent
I think you’re joking, but I doubt they’re going to have a redraw, as it would be difficult to prove a bad lottery here. When they had the seniority problem last year, that’s easy to prove without investigating what TM did. Members could compare results and it became obvious something was amiss. All we can say here is allegedly twenty or thirty or how many fans hit a PJ Quadrella when probability says it should be one in five or ten thousand. Can’t prove it and I doubt TM is admitting anything. In this case , it “seems” there is a chance that the same or very similar random number generator result was used for different shows.
it’s funny to the many here that try to make the point, hey just because one draw is independent of the other it’s very easy to get lucky twice. The truth is the randomness should make it much more difficult.
more importantly, is there a verified fan thread, when is that email coming out, tonight right? Can’t wait for that rejection, as the odds for an msg code must be way worse than winning the fan club lottery for MSG, helloooo stub hub.
Again, how is this a "bad draw"? Isn't it more likely that it's just a methodology we weren't expecting and don't like?
The methodology is a random sample draw. If odds are 10% for each of the very difficult Northeast shows to obtain, hitting four of these shows is one in 10,000. So if the fan club gets allocated 10,000 seats per show, one fan should have won four shows, no more. It's as simple as that
We ASSUME the methodology is a random sample draw. Nowhere in the instructions does it specify how tickets would be drawn. Folks have suggested other methodologies TM may have used that would fit the reported patterns without glitches or broken code or any need for invalidation/redraws.
If it's not completely random then that's something they need to disclose. They would be off the charts worse organization than take a master. That would be nasty to not be a random draw and not tell people what they're doing so they can try to make the best moves that they can possibly make
First, let's clarify. We assume that the draw will be done show-by-show, picking completely randomly from the members who put in request for that show.
However, what if it worked like this: We submit our request (said request being a list of all the shows we would like to purchase tickets for and our price tier preferences). Ticketmaster completely randomly draws members and fulfills as much of what is available for that request.
That is still "completely random", just not in the way we all assumed it would be.
Here's the wording from Ten Club's instructions:
"Step 3. Complete the ticket request form, including selecting the
date(s), the number of tickets you are requesting, and ticket type
preference.
Step 4. Once you’ve completed the form you
will be immediately directed to your Request Summary Page. You will also
receive an email acknowledging your ticket request, as well as
important rules and details on what to expect next.
Once the ticket request window has officially closed, no edits can be made.
TICKET CONFIRMATIONS
Ticket requests will be confirmed following the below schedule:
...
If your request is confirmed, you will receive an email with your
payment summary and details on upcoming ticket delivery. You will also
be notified via email if your request is not confirmed."
And, from the Ticketmaster blog:
"What is Ticketmaster Request?
Pearl Jam is using Ticketmaster Request to power this fan club
presale. Ticketmaster Request is a simple way to request tickets to
popular shows, so you don’t have to compete in a first-come,
first-served sale. You can take your time to review the available
options and request the right tickets for you. All you need to do is
tell us which show(s) you’re interested in, the type of ticket you want
and your payment details. If tickets that match your request are
available, your card will be charged, and we’ll email you instructions
on how to view them. Note: each show you are confirmed for will be
charged separately by Ticketmaster; the charge will appear as
Ticketmaster*Pearl Jam."
"How does the Ten Club ticket request work?
Complete your request in three easy steps. First, tell us what shows
and tickets you’re interested in. Then, provide a credit card to
complete your ticket request. If your request is fulfilled, your card
will be charged and we’ll email you a confirmation with instructions on
how to view your tickets during the week of February 19. Note: tickets
will not show in your Ticketmaster account until all seating assignments
are finalized."
"Can I request tickets for more than one city?
Yes. By submitting a ticket request for any show, you are committing
to purchase the ticket(s) should your request be fulfilled. For example,
if you enter for five shows, it is possible your request can be
fulfilled for all five shows in which case your credit card will
immediately be charged for tickets to all five shows. However, you can
only purchase up to two Ten Club tickets for each individual show. All
tickets will be non-transferable in all states except where it is
prohibited by law."
"How will tickets be determined for Ten Club members?
To level the playing field, ticket requests are fulfilled in a
randomized selection process. If selected for seated tickets, tickets
will be assigned based on Ten Club seniority within the purchased price
level."
Note how both keep referencing your "request" in the singular. Nothing about individual shows. Both are clear that you are "committing to purchase the ticket(s) should your request be fulfilled". I'm not the smartest person in the world, but it seems pretty clear to me that they selected members at random and fulfilled their entire requests (as possible). Thus, some people going x-for-x and others going 0-for-x. Still random, just not drawn the way we expected. Not the "best" system, but still a valid way to perform the lottery.
Your comment is very insightful, but I completely disagree that this would be “valid” in any manner of what this club is supposed to represent.
By “removing confusion” that priority rankings created, TM would have completely changed the rules of the lottery and I doubt the band would support this winner take all policy.
You are correct this is entirely possible. If so, it’s move number ten thousand and ten of horrific Pearl Jam ticketing decisions, because if I understand your comment… let’s say for US shows only, it’s possible that ten thousand ten c members can win every single show, and everyone else gets zilch. That’s the exact OPPOSITE of what the bands objective is supposed to be.
If this is what TM did, someone needs to tell the band. Because if removing priority rankings led to this potential horrific policy, it’s completely outside the spirit of this club, outside the spirit of a lottery, and completely outside the bounds of any fairness whatsoever.
edit, and they would be in complete violation of the rule that they determined a random draw to “level the playing field.” The process you and others are describing would be a material and undisclosed change to their historical process, and anyone familiar (employees and their families, friends, acquaintances, etc.) with the “Ticketmaster Request” process would have a significant and unfair advantage.
that said, there is no other way to explain how so many fans hit a ten thousand to one trifecta. The band or their management needs to explain how this draw worked and how so many fans seemingly defied the odds by scoring so many low odds tickets.
How has everyone done with seniority? Is it in alignment with what you thought?
In Manchester UK I got Row 14 (1st row due to floor standing) Block 111 which is the last block furthest from stage on Stone’s side.
I have friends who got Block 102 and 103 which are the closest blocks on Mike’s side.
My membership started in 2003. Theirs in 2006 and 2010….
I am thinking TM will say you’re in the first row of the block. But seriously, in PJ Premium the front blocks are £50 - £70 more than block 111.
No reply from 10c to my asking how this can be. After 20 plus years - Nice service !! 10c has been faultless with their help and approach forever in my opinion, but so far this time , not so much.. they’re busy I’m sure.
How has everyone done with seniority? Is it in alignment with what you thought?
Tough for me to compare as I had F2F tickets for Baltimore in 2020 and only one of my 2018 Fenway tickets were typical for my number, but I've seen some members with similar numbers to mine in the same area of Baltimore and others with higher numbers in "worse" seats, so I'd say that's probably accurate. Fenway seats are better (IMHO) than 2018, but about what I expected.
It's interesting that Fenway seats are better, especially as they added the big GA pit. I would think it would push good seats back further, but maybe not.
It's very difficult to make sense of the seating. My ticket buddy has a very low 10c number, in the 40,000's, and he didn't even get 1st side section in Portland. Which is odd. Previous to TM taking over the seniority seating, he was usually always in the 1st row in the first side section, except for hard shows, like MSG, Philly or Fenway. It's weird that it's in the second section over and a couple of rows up, as the 10c seating chart showed that there 10c seats available in the first section. But maybe it's only like 1 or 2 pairs that were available in the first section?
In my experience the first section closest to the stage is vips, friends and family. Maybe a few 10cers in there. But I go to shows in the northeast so who knows. Certainly 10C tix have been pushed back.
Comments
The methodology is a random sample draw. If odds are 10% for each of the very difficult Northeast shows to obtain, hitting four of these shows is one in 10,000. So if the fan club gets allocated 10,000 seats per show, one fan should have won four shows, no more. It's as simple as that
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
07.08.03 MSG 07.09.03 MSG 7.12.03 Hershey 7.14.03 Holmdel 6.12.08 Tampa 10.19.13 Brooklyn 4.11.16 Tampa
5.1.16 MSG 5.2.16 MSG 8.7.16 Fenway 9.2.18 Fenway 9.4.18 Fenway 9.11.22 MSG 9.16.22 Nashville 9.18.23 Austin 9.19.23 Austin
"It's a lottery, it is random" to anyone that crying that they didn't win....
Have no problem explaining away the long or extremely long odds that member after member are claiming to have achieved all over PJ internet. Even if 90% of these people are lying or exaggerating (results achieved with multiple accounts), even a handful of fans hitting million to one shots prove this was not a true lottery.
It was clearly a flawed process that did not replicate a random lottery, so it is reasonable for losers to be frustrated.
At least according to some folks around here.
We've known there were issues with the TM seating from the beginning because his number is so low. You know everyone around you, you've been sitting near them for decades. We know a lot of their numbers, yet once TM took over the draw/seating there have always been people with higher numbers than his seated in front of us at every show. A friend who has a 10c that is more than double my husbands was seated in row one, in the first side section, in Ottawa I think it was, and we were seated in row 3. The friend was surprised, no one could make sense of it. We never really mentioned it because "first world problems." We wondered if maybe TM was seating in blocks or something.
How does he know the Vancouver seats, I thought they hadn't be drawn yet?
However, what if it worked like this: We submit our request (said request being a list of all the shows we would like to purchase tickets for and our price tier preferences). Ticketmaster completely randomly draws members and fulfills as much of what is available for that request.
Step 4. Once you’ve completed the form you will be immediately directed to your Request Summary Page. You will also receive an email acknowledging your ticket request, as well as important rules and details on what to expect next.
Once the ticket request window has officially closed, no edits can be made.
TICKET CONFIRMATIONS
Ticket requests will be confirmed following the below schedule:
...Pearl Jam is using Ticketmaster Request to power this fan club presale. Ticketmaster Request is a simple way to request tickets to popular shows, so you don’t have to compete in a first-come, first-served sale. You can take your time to review the available options and request the right tickets for you. All you need to do is tell us which show(s) you’re interested in, the type of ticket you want and your payment details. If tickets that match your request are available, your card will be charged, and we’ll email you instructions on how to view them. Note: each show you are confirmed for will be charged separately by Ticketmaster; the charge will appear as Ticketmaster*Pearl Jam."
Complete your request in three easy steps. First, tell us what shows and tickets you’re interested in. Then, provide a credit card to complete your ticket request. If your request is fulfilled, your card will be charged and we’ll email you a confirmation with instructions on how to view your tickets during the week of February 19. Note: tickets will not show in your Ticketmaster account until all seating assignments are finalized."
"Can I request tickets for more than one city?
Yes. By submitting a ticket request for any show, you are committing to purchase the ticket(s) should your request be fulfilled. For example, if you enter for five shows, it is possible your request can be fulfilled for all five shows in which case your credit card will immediately be charged for tickets to all five shows. However, you can only purchase up to two Ten Club tickets for each individual show. All tickets will be non-transferable in all states except where it is prohibited by law."
To level the playing field, ticket requests are fulfilled in a randomized selection process. If selected for seated tickets, tickets will be assigned based on Ten Club seniority within the purchased price level."
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
Tough for me to compare as I had F2F tickets for Baltimore in 2020 and only one of my 2018 Fenway tickets were typical for my number, but I've seen some members with similar numbers to mine in the same area of Baltimore and others with higher numbers in "worse" seats, so I'd say that's probably accurate. Fenway seats are better (IMHO) than 2018, but about what I expected.
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
It's very difficult to make sense of the seating. My ticket buddy has a very low 10c number, in the 40,000's, and he didn't even get 1st side section in Portland. Which is odd. Previous to TM taking over the seniority seating, he was usually always in the 1st row in the first side section, except for hard shows, like MSG, Philly or Fenway. It's weird that it's in the second section over and a couple of rows up, as the 10c seating chart showed that there 10c seats available in the first section. But maybe it's only like 1 or 2 pairs that were available in the first section?
#105xxx
Philly N1: Sec 115, Row 16
Philly N2: Sec 124, Row 2
2018 I had grandstand 28, near the back of the section. Under the roof and pretty far back. This year I'm in the loge boxes, so the sections in front of the grandstand, but N1 I'm closer to home plate (148), so probably technically farther from the stage, but in the 4th row, so closer to the field. N2 I'm on the other side of the field in 102. Looks like it's closer to the stage than GS28 or B102, and in the 5th row. I think that's definitely due to it being a Tuesday night in the middle of September.
I did get a general sale code at about midday today. Checked out what was available for non-premium, and it was all GS or higher. Didn't look at premium (the Red Sox site separated them, which is nice).
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
If this is what TM did, someone needs to tell the band. Because if removing priority rankings led to this potential horrific policy, it’s completely outside the spirit of this club, outside the spirit of a lottery, and completely outside the bounds of any fairness whatsoever.
edit, and they would be in complete violation of the rule that they determined a random draw to “level the playing field.” The process you and others are describing would be a material and undisclosed change to their historical process, and anyone familiar (employees and their families, friends, acquaintances, etc.) with the “Ticketmaster Request” process would have a significant and unfair advantage.
that said, there is no other way to explain how so many fans hit a ten thousand to one trifecta. The band or their management needs to explain how this draw worked and how so many fans seemingly defied the odds by scoring so many low odds tickets.
http://www.hi5sports.org/ (Sports Program for Kids with Disabilities)
http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=3652
In my experience the first section closest to the stage is vips, friends and family. Maybe a few 10cers in there. But I go to shows in the northeast so who knows. Certainly 10C tix have been pushed back.