It’s funny that I’m in the middle of watching “The Chosen” (which is one person’s interpretation of Christs Ministry and I’m assuming his crucifixion then how the apostles followed thru with his teachings) and this is exactly what he’s preaching about right now. Acceptance. Everything that the Jews thought about the messiah is the exact opposite of what Christ teaches in this version. It’s a wonderful way of thinking about those times. I’m sure it’s going to get heart wrenching, but it’s enlightening. I realize there’s not a lot of religious conversations on here but it’s funny how alike our opinions and beliefs are almost a duplicate of His. Just saying.
setting aside what came after, I'm hard pressed to think many non or other believers disagree with his message on its face. Shame so many who proclaim him as saviour choose to not follow that message.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Here's an excellent gift article from the WashPo today regarding Christian Home Schoolers and the revolt of their children.
ROUND HILL, Va. — They said goodbye to Aimee outside her elementary school, watching nervously as she joined the other children streaming into a low brick building framed by the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Christina and Aaron Beall stood among many families resuming an emotional but familiar routine: the first day of full-time,in-person classes since public schools closed at the beginning of the pandemic.
But for the Bealls, that morning in late August 2021carried a weight incomprehensible to the parents around them. Their 6-year-old daughter, wearing a sequined blue dress and a pink backpack that almost obscured her small body, hesitated as she reached the doors. Although Aaron had told her again and again how brave she was, he knewit would be years before she understood how much he meant it — understood that for her mother and father, the decision to send her to school was nothing less than a revolt.
One line in particular toward the end seemed apropos to this discussion:
“People who think the public schools are indoctrinating don’t know what indoctrination is. We were indoctrinated,” Aaron says. “It’s not even comparable.”
all this just reminds me constantly of Handmaid's Tale
True, but they indoctrinate the boys too. The husband in this story mentions that he was never taught to think critically. That is the biggest disservice you can do to a child, in their education.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
How is it that so many of these predators of children are also pastors and youth pastors and other religious fanatics? I don't understand the connection. What kind of disgusting sickness brings these two things together?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
How is it that so many of these predators of children are also pastors and youth pastors and other religious fanatics? I don't understand the connection. What kind of disgusting sickness brings these two things together?
I was thinking about this very question this morning. Do these sickos get attracted to the job because of their sicko-ness, or does the sicko-ness develop as a result of exposure and opportunity? I'm guessing the former. Although, a lawyer friend of mine holds the professional opinion that actual pedophilia is really, really rare, most rapes/sexual assaults of any age are usually crimes of opportunity. Yet, I've had the opportunity hundreds of times. Never entered my mind once.
And it's not just pastors. It seems to be more than any other. But it's any person of influence/authority (coach, group leader, etc).
How is it that so many of these predators of children are also pastors and youth pastors and other religious fanatics? I don't understand the connection. What kind of disgusting sickness brings these two things together?
I'd guess it's a common job for them to go into for the access.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
How is it that so many of these predators of children are also pastors and youth pastors and other religious fanatics? I don't understand the connection. What kind of disgusting sickness brings these two things together?
I figure it’s the same reason they’re coaches and teachers as well: access. I don’t think there’s any connection to (most) faiths and these individuals, or, as I’m suggesting, there’s also some connection between hockey and the predators.
Again, to me it’s all about access and once that’s achieved and a suitable target identified then the grooming begins.
I do also remember a time when this problem wasn’t used as a political jab (which I believe will only get in the way of dealing with this issue).
I’m going to throw a bit of a wrench in the discussion by asking how we should regard the predators if it should turn out they’re following a biological imperative in the same way we accept homosexuality? This by NO MEANS justifies what the predators do but (in my mind) hugely reframes the discussion. However I’m not sure there’s much or any interest in pursuing this theory.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I've brought that up before, but it seems to be a possibility that no one likes to talk about, because, as you capitalized, some take it as justifying or excusing the behaviour.
I would be careful in framing it the same way as homosexuality; that's part of the reason we are where we are today with regards to drag queen story time.
I think it's more of a mental illness; the ones that are "truly" pedos and not the ones where it's a crime of opportunity (if my lawyer friend is to be believed). I'm guessing not enough research has been done in that field to differentiate the two as I think it would be viewed, again, as trying to find a "reason" for it; heading down the " not guilty by reason of insanity" slope ("I couldn't control myself"); it's easier for society to cast them as simply "evil" and "irredeemable" than have the difficult discussion surrounding it.
I've brought that up before, but it seems to be a possibility that no one likes to talk about, because, as you capitalized, some take it as justifying or excusing the behaviour.
I would be careful in framing it the same way as homosexuality; that's part of the reason we are where we are today with regards to drag queen story time.
I think it's more of a mental illness; the ones that are "truly" pedos and not the ones where it's a crime of opportunity (if my lawyer friend is to be believed). I'm guessing not enough research has been done in that field to differentiate the two as I think it would be viewed, again, as trying to find a "reason" for it; heading down the " not guilty by reason of insanity" slope ("I couldn't control myself"); it's easier for society to cast them as simply "evil" and "irredeemable" than have the difficult discussion surrounding it.
I agree with most of what you’ve said, just not sure how much is mental illness and how much is biology.
I do want to apologize to anyone who might have read my comment as linking pedophelia to homosexuality. They are not, full stop.
To clarify, I accept that homosexuality is hardwired into an individual and I’m only suggesting that pedophiles may be subject to similar drives. And again, this is by no means meant to justify what these people do. As a single adult, I’m prepared to go to jail if anyone ever messes with my nieces or nephews (think the Tragically Hip’s song 38 Years Old).
I’m somewhat also lead to wonder where fetishes fit into this, whether it’s choice or biology (I do see those moreso as a choice but I don’t know if the physical sciences have examined this).
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I've brought that up before, but it seems to be a possibility that no one likes to talk about, because, as you capitalized, some take it as justifying or excusing the behaviour.
I would be careful in framing it the same way as homosexuality; that's part of the reason we are where we are today with regards to drag queen story time.
I think it's more of a mental illness; the ones that are "truly" pedos and not the ones where it's a crime of opportunity (if my lawyer friend is to be believed). I'm guessing not enough research has been done in that field to differentiate the two as I think it would be viewed, again, as trying to find a "reason" for it; heading down the " not guilty by reason of insanity" slope ("I couldn't control myself"); it's easier for society to cast them as simply "evil" and "irredeemable" than have the difficult discussion surrounding it.
I agree with most of what you’ve said, just not sure how much is mental illness and how much is biology.
I do want to apologize to anyone who might have read my comment as linking pedophelia to homosexuality. They are not, full stop.
To clarify, I accept that homosexuality is hardwired into an individual and I’m only suggesting that pedophiles may be subject to similar drives. And again, this is by no means meant to justify what these people do. As a single adult, I’m prepared to go to jail if anyone ever messes with my nieces or nephews (think the Tragically Hip’s song 38 Years Old).
I’m somewhat also lead to wonder where fetishes fit into this, whether it’s choice or biology (I do see those moreso as a choice but I don’t know if the physical sciences have examined this).
You’re correct about it being both mental and physical, which is why castration should be considered in all cases of pedophilia.
I worked with an individual whose son was caught masturbating on a girls legs at an amusement park while he was standing behind her in line. The pedophile apologized the entire time he was masturbating which indicates he was aware yet chose to proceed no matter what the consequences may be. If fixing the wiring in their brains doesn’t work then the only other solution is to remove the physical reaction.
All religions today are a joke. Basically it’s an open invitation to all pedophiles.
I've brought that up before, but it seems to be a possibility that no one likes to talk about, because, as you capitalized, some take it as justifying or excusing the behaviour.
I would be careful in framing it the same way as homosexuality; that's part of the reason we are where we are today with regards to drag queen story time.
I think it's more of a mental illness; the ones that are "truly" pedos and not the ones where it's a crime of opportunity (if my lawyer friend is to be believed). I'm guessing not enough research has been done in that field to differentiate the two as I think it would be viewed, again, as trying to find a "reason" for it; heading down the " not guilty by reason of insanity" slope ("I couldn't control myself"); it's easier for society to cast them as simply "evil" and "irredeemable" than have the difficult discussion surrounding it.
I agree with most of what you’ve said, just not sure how much is mental illness and how much is biology.
I do want to apologize to anyone who might have read my comment as linking pedophelia to homosexuality. They are not, full stop.
To clarify, I accept that homosexuality is hardwired into an individual and I’m only suggesting that pedophiles may be subject to similar drives. And again, this is by no means meant to justify what these people do. As a single adult, I’m prepared to go to jail if anyone ever messes with my nieces or nephews (think the Tragically Hip’s song 38 Years Old).
I’m somewhat also lead to wonder where fetishes fit into this, whether it’s choice or biology (I do see those moreso as a choice but I don’t know if the physical sciences have examined this).
A few things.
1. Regarding the question about whether Christianity induces these behaviors or not.. I don't think that's inherently true. I do think that religion is power and access. So someone inclined to pedo, sexual assault, whatever, will be in a better position to successfully commit these acts when they have power. Nothing is more culturally ingrained in western civilization than Christianity, and the power that comes with it.
Now the Catholic church problem is slightly different I think. But I won't get into that now.
1. Regarding the question about whether pedophilia is hard wired or not, well that's really a question that could be asked about a serial killer along with a whole range of other criminal types. It is hard wired, learned, can it be unlearned? I don't know the answer to that. At the same time, for today, I'm not sure it matters. We criminalize activities that harm others. Pedophilia would certainly qualify as that. So while it may not be totally "fair", if it is hard wired, there's a cultural expectation that a person moderates their impulses when it harms someone else. Without that expectation, we would have chaos. People aren't incarcerated for their thoughts and fantasies, only actions.
How is it that so many of these predators of children are also pastors and youth pastors and other religious fanatics? I don't understand the connection. What kind of disgusting sickness brings these two things together?
I do also remember a time when this problem wasn’t used as a political jab (which I believe will only get in the way of dealing with this issue).
To me it's pretty apparent this issue has only taken on a political angle to stoke the culture wars and demonize the LGBTQ community.
As far as I know, drag shows and / or the trans lifestyle haven't been linked to any sort of rampant molestation scandals, at least not to the extent that the Catholic church has, and yet the lifestyle is vilified and treated as a danger to the children of America. Is there anything other than homophobia that explains these concerns?
It's already been brought up a few times: Child beauty pageants are still legal in the state of Florida, but as I understand it, a gay teacher can't mention having a same sex partner for fear of grooming? Someone make it make sense, please.
Call me crazy, but I don't think the people beating this drum about drag shows & groomers give a shit about the actual issue at hand. It's just more culture wars bullshit and about vilifying an already marginalized group.
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
anyone following any religion, especially north american christians, take from the bible what fits their personal needs/biases and ignore the rest.
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.
They need to change the name. Perhaps "Tumpianity"?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.
Not all the churches suck. I've been to some good ones.
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.
Not all the churches suck. I've been to some good ones.
Agreed, for sure. I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going. My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church. He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church. He did good work and was a faithful and decent man. So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches. What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.
Not all the churches suck. I've been to some good ones.
Agreed, for sure. I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going. My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church. He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church. He did good work and was a faithful and decent man. So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches. What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith.
They usually end up leaving rather than start something. Not everyone can be Martin Luther, lol.
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.
Not all the churches suck. I've been to some good ones.
Agreed, for sure. I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going. My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church. He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church. He did good work and was a faithful and decent man. So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches. What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith.
It's really sad. Now let's be honest, there's been a sect of the Christian faith in this country that has a long history of using the Bible to oppress the marginalized and less fortunate in this country. I won't name names, but we'll call the the Bouthern Saptists. This is all part of their history.
I actually really like the Presbyterian and Methodist sects of Christianity. I have found those congregations to be more open minded, accepting, etc.
Why more people haven't spoken out, I cannot say. I continue to blame right wing media, including Fox, for radicalizing a significant portion of this country.
The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts. It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off. If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.
American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.
Not all the churches suck. I've been to some good ones.
Agreed, for sure. I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going. My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church. He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church. He did good work and was a faithful and decent man. So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches. What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith.
They usually end up leaving rather than start something. Not everyone can be Martin Luther, lol.
It's funny but everyone forgets that Luther was an extreme anti-semite. His book "On the Jews and Their Lies" was influential in the Nuremberg Laws.
I've brought that up before, but it seems to be a possibility that no one likes to talk about, because, as you capitalized, some take it as justifying or excusing the behaviour.
I would be careful in framing it the same way as homosexuality; that's part of the reason we are where we are today with regards to drag queen story time.
I think it's more of a mental illness; the ones that are "truly" pedos and not the ones where it's a crime of opportunity (if my lawyer friend is to be believed). I'm guessing not enough research has been done in that field to differentiate the two as I think it would be viewed, again, as trying to find a "reason" for it; heading down the " not guilty by reason of insanity" slope ("I couldn't control myself"); it's easier for society to cast them as simply "evil" and "irredeemable" than have the difficult discussion surrounding it.
I agree with most of what you’ve said, just not sure how much is mental illness and how much is biology.
I do want to apologize to anyone who might have read my comment as linking pedophelia to homosexuality. They are not, full stop.
To clarify, I accept that homosexuality is hardwired into an individual and I’m only suggesting that pedophiles may be subject to similar drives. And again, this is by no means meant to justify what these people do. As a single adult, I’m prepared to go to jail if anyone ever messes with my nieces or nephews (think the Tragically Hip’s song 38 Years Old).
I’m somewhat also lead to wonder where fetishes fit into this, whether it’s choice or biology (I do see those moreso as a choice but I don’t know if the physical sciences have examined this).
A few things.
1. Regarding the question about whether Christianity induces these behaviors or not.. I don't think that's inherently true. I do think that religion is power and access. So someone inclined to pedo, sexual assault, whatever, will be in a better position to successfully commit these acts when they have power. Nothing is more culturally ingrained in western civilization than Christianity, and the power that comes with it.
Now the Catholic church problem is slightly different I think. But I won't get into that now.
1. Regarding the question about whether pedophilia is hard wired or not, well that's really a question that could be asked about a serial killer along with a whole range of other criminal types. It is hard wired, learned, can it be unlearned? I don't know the answer to that. At the same time, for today, I'm not sure it matters. We criminalize activities that harm others. Pedophilia would certainly qualify as that. So while it may not be totally "fair", if it is hard wired, there's a cultural expectation that a person moderates their impulses when it harms someone else. Without that expectation, we would have chaos. People aren't incarcerated for their thoughts and fantasies, only actions.
Completely agree about faiths providing power and access, both are pretty much necessary to the grooming process. Unfortunately we need to beware of almost every similar relationship, from sports coaches to music teachers. It can truly bring one to tears just contemplating.
I strongly subscribe to the theory I saw in some documentary that essentially nature loads the gun and nurture pulls the trigger (or doesn’t shoot) more often than not. Sadly that somewhat implies to me that socialization (nurture) is a factor in driving the predators to work so hard at grooming silence into their victims and otherwise hiding themselves and their acts.
This is pretty well the most abhorrent behaviour in our society and I’d probably be fine with some sort of chemical intervention to get rid of the urges in the individuals that need it.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Comments
setting aside what came after, I'm hard pressed to think many non or other believers disagree with his message on its face. Shame so many who proclaim him as saviour choose to not follow that message.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
ROUND HILL, Va. — They said goodbye to Aimee outside her elementary school, watching nervously as she joined the other children streaming into a low brick building framed by the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Christina and Aaron Beall stood among many families resuming an emotional but familiar routine: the first day of full-time, in-person classes since public schools closed at the beginning of the pandemic.
But for the Bealls, that morning in late August 2021 carried a weight incomprehensible to the parents around them. Their 6-year-old daughter, wearing a sequined blue dress and a pink backpack that almost obscured her small body, hesitated as she reached the doors. Although Aaron had told her again and again how brave she was, he knew it would be years before she understood how much he meant it — understood that for her mother and father, the decision to send her to school was nothing less than a revolt.
One line in particular toward the end seemed apropos to this discussion:
“People who think the public schools are indoctrinating don’t know what indoctrination is. We were indoctrinated,” Aaron says. “It’s not even comparable.”
https://wapo.st/43yufSY
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
And it's not just pastors. It seems to be more than any other. But it's any person of influence/authority (coach, group leader, etc).
www.headstonesband.com
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Again, to me it’s all about access and once that’s achieved and a suitable target identified then the grooming begins.
I do also remember a time when this problem wasn’t used as a political jab (which I believe will only get in the way of dealing with this issue).
I’m going to throw a bit of a wrench in the discussion by asking how we should regard the predators if it should turn out they’re following a biological imperative in the same way we accept homosexuality? This by NO MEANS justifies what the predators do but (in my mind) hugely reframes the discussion. However I’m not sure there’s much or any interest in pursuing this theory.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I would be careful in framing it the same way as homosexuality; that's part of the reason we are where we are today with regards to drag queen story time.
I think it's more of a mental illness; the ones that are "truly" pedos and not the ones where it's a crime of opportunity (if my lawyer friend is to be believed). I'm guessing not enough research has been done in that field to differentiate the two as I think it would be viewed, again, as trying to find a "reason" for it; heading down the " not guilty by reason of insanity" slope ("I couldn't control myself"); it's easier for society to cast them as simply "evil" and "irredeemable" than have the difficult discussion surrounding it.
www.headstonesband.com
Definitely a mental thing. It's really psychological abuse by the church in all regards.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
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2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
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I do want to apologize to anyone who might have read my comment as linking pedophelia to homosexuality. They are not, full stop.
To clarify, I accept that homosexuality is hardwired into an individual and I’m only suggesting that pedophiles may be subject to similar drives. And again, this is by no means meant to justify what these people do. As a single adult, I’m prepared to go to jail if anyone ever messes with my nieces or nephews (think the Tragically Hip’s song 38 Years Old).
I’m somewhat also lead to wonder where fetishes fit into this, whether it’s choice or biology (I do see those moreso as a choice but I don’t know if the physical sciences have examined this).
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
1. Regarding the question about whether Christianity induces these behaviors or not.. I don't think that's inherently true. I do think that religion is power and access. So someone inclined to pedo, sexual assault, whatever, will be in a better position to successfully commit these acts when they have power. Nothing is more culturally ingrained in western civilization than Christianity, and the power that comes with it.
Now the Catholic church problem is slightly different I think. But I won't get into that now.
1. Regarding the question about whether pedophilia is hard wired or not, well that's really a question that could be asked about a serial killer along with a whole range of other criminal types. It is hard wired, learned, can it be unlearned? I don't know the answer to that. At the same time, for today, I'm not sure it matters. We criminalize activities that harm others. Pedophilia would certainly qualify as that. So while it may not be totally "fair", if it is hard wired, there's a cultural expectation that a person moderates their impulses when it harms someone else. Without that expectation, we would have chaos. People aren't incarcerated for their thoughts and fantasies, only actions.
As far as I know, drag shows and / or the trans lifestyle haven't been linked to any sort of rampant molestation scandals, at least not to the extent that the Catholic church has, and yet the lifestyle is vilified and treated as a danger to the children of America. Is there anything other than homophobia that explains these concerns?
It's already been brought up a few times: Child beauty pageants are still legal in the state of Florida, but as I understand it, a gay teacher can't mention having a same sex partner for fear of grooming? Someone make it make sense, please.
Call me crazy, but I don't think the people beating this drum about drag shows & groomers give a shit about the actual issue at hand. It's just more culture wars bullshit and about vilifying an already marginalized group.
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They need to change the name. Perhaps "Tumpianity"?
Agreed, for sure. I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going. My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church. He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church. He did good work and was a faithful and decent man. So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches. What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith.
I actually really like the Presbyterian and Methodist sects of Christianity. I have found those congregations to be more open minded, accepting, etc.
Why more people haven't spoken out, I cannot say. I continue to blame right wing media, including Fox, for radicalizing a significant portion of this country.
I strongly subscribe to the theory I saw in some documentary that essentially nature loads the gun and nurture pulls the trigger (or doesn’t shoot) more often than not. Sadly that somewhat implies to me that socialization (nurture) is a factor in driving the predators to work so hard at grooming silence into their victims and otherwise hiding themselves and their acts.
This is pretty well the most abhorrent behaviour in our society and I’d probably be fine with some sort of chemical intervention to get rid of the urges in the individuals that need it.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022