Groomers aka sexual predators

brianlux

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

mrussel1

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

anyone following any religion, especially north american christians, take from the bible what fits their personal needs/biases and ignore the rest. 

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

They need to change the name.  Perhaps "Tumpianity"?

tempo_n_groove

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Not all the churches suck.  I've been to some good ones.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Not all the churches suck.  I've been to some good ones.

Agreed, for sure.  I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going.  My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church.  He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church.  He did good work and was a faithful and decent man.  So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches.  What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith. 

tempo_n_groove

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Not all the churches suck.  I've been to some good ones.

Agreed, for sure.  I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going.  My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church.  He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church.  He did good work and was a faithful and decent man.  So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches.  What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith. 

They usually end up leaving rather than start something.  Not everyone can be Martin Luther, lol.

mrussel1

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Not all the churches suck.  I've been to some good ones.

Agreed, for sure.  I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going.  My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church.  He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church.  He did good work and was a faithful and decent man.  So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches.  What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith. 

It's really sad.  Now let's be honest, there's been a sect of the Christian faith in this country that has a long history of using the Bible to oppress the marginalized and less fortunate in this country.  I won't name names, but we'll call the the Bouthern Saptists.  This is all part of their history.  

I actually really like the Presbyterian and Methodist sects of Christianity.  I have found those congregations to be more open minded, accepting, etc. 

Why more people haven't spoken out, I cannot say.  I continue to blame right wing media, including Fox, for radicalizing a significant portion of this country.  

mrussel1

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Not all the churches suck.  I've been to some good ones.

Agreed, for sure.  I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going.  My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church.  He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church.  He did good work and was a faithful and decent man.  So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches.  What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith. 

They usually end up leaving rather than start something.  Not everyone can be Martin Luther, lol.

It's funny but everyone forgets that Luther was an extreme anti-semite.  His book "On the Jews and Their Lies" was influential in the Nuremberg Laws.  

DarthMaeglin

mrussel1 said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I've brought that up before, but it seems to be a possibility that no one likes to talk about, because, as you capitalized, some take it as justifying or excusing the behaviour. 

I would be careful in framing it the same way as homosexuality; that's part of the reason we are where we are today with regards to drag queen story time. 

I think it's more of a mental illness; the ones that are "truly" pedos and not the ones where it's a crime of opportunity (if my lawyer friend is to be believed). I'm guessing not enough research has been done in that field to differentiate the two as I think it would be viewed, again, as trying to find a "reason" for it; heading down the " not guilty by reason of insanity" slope ("I couldn't control myself"); it's easier for society to cast them as simply "evil" and "irredeemable" than have the difficult discussion surrounding it. 

I agree with most of what you’ve said, just not sure how much is mental illness and how much is biology. 

I do want to apologize to anyone who might have read my comment as linking pedophelia to homosexuality. They are not, full stop.

 To clarify, I accept that homosexuality is hardwired into an individual and I’m only suggesting that pedophiles may be subject to similar drives. And again, this is by no means meant to justify what these people do. As a single adult, I’m prepared to go to jail if anyone ever messes with my nieces or nephews (think the Tragically Hip’s song 38 Years Old).

I’m somewhat also lead to wonder where fetishes fit into this, whether it’s choice or biology (I do see those moreso as a choice but I don’t know if the physical sciences have examined this).

A few things.  

1. Regarding the question about whether Christianity induces these behaviors or not.. I don't think that's inherently true.  I do think that religion is power and access.  So someone inclined to pedo, sexual assault, whatever, will be in a better position to successfully commit these acts when they have power.  Nothing is more culturally ingrained in western civilization than Christianity, and the power that comes with it. 

Now the Catholic church problem is slightly different I think.  But I won't get into that now.  

1. Regarding the question about whether pedophilia is hard wired or not, well that's really a question that could be asked about a serial killer along with a whole range of other criminal types.  It is hard wired, learned, can it be unlearned?  I don't know the answer to that.  At the same time, for today, I'm not sure it matters.  We criminalize activities that harm others.  Pedophilia would certainly qualify as that.  So while it may not be totally "fair", if it is hard wired, there's a cultural expectation that a person moderates their impulses when it harms someone else.  Without that expectation, we would have chaos.  People aren't incarcerated for their thoughts and fantasies, only actions. 

Completely agree about faiths providing power and access, both are pretty much necessary to the grooming process. Unfortunately we need to beware of almost every similar relationship, from sports coaches to music teachers. It can truly bring one to tears just contemplating.

 I strongly subscribe to the theory I saw in some documentary that essentially nature loads the gun and nurture pulls the trigger (or doesn’t shoot) more often than not. Sadly that somewhat implies to me that socialization (nurture) is a factor in driving the predators to work so hard at grooming silence into their victims and otherwise hiding themselves and their acts.

This is pretty well the most abhorrent behaviour in our society and I’d probably be fine with some sort of chemical intervention to get rid of the urges in the individuals that need it.

tempo_n_groove

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Not all the churches suck.  I've been to some good ones.

Agreed, for sure.  I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going.  My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church.  He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church.  He did good work and was a faithful and decent man.  So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches.  What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith. 

They usually end up leaving rather than start something.  Not everyone can be Martin Luther, lol.

It's funny but everyone forgets that Luther was an extreme anti-semite.  His book "On the Jews and Their Lies" was influential in the Nuremberg Laws.  

He missed the part in the old testament where it mentions that the Jews are Gods chosen people.  Whoops.

mrussel1

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Not all the churches suck.  I've been to some good ones.

Agreed, for sure.  I don't have anything against people who are religious or church going.  My father was very involved in the Presbyterian Church.  He was a deacon for several year and at one time he became the Moderator of the General Assembly of the U.S. Presbyterian Church.  He did good work and was a faithful and decent man.  So I know there are good people doing good things in various churches.  What I don't understand is why more people of faith have not spoken out against those who would distort and pervert the foundations of their faith. 

They usually end up leaving rather than start something.  Not everyone can be Martin Luther, lol.

It's funny but everyone forgets that Luther was an extreme anti-semite.  His book "On the Jews and Their Lies" was influential in the Nuremberg Laws.  

He missed the part in the old testament where it mentions that the Jews are Gods chosen people.  Whoops.

Luther was not quite the Nazi that the Nazis were.  He believed it was heresy to not acknowledge that Jesus was Jewish.  His disdain was for Jews that did not convert to Christianity.  For those that truly converted, he ironically held no prejudice (according to his writings).  But for those that did not convert, he writings were cruel, advocating forfeiture of property, expulsion and even death.  

Gern Blansten

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

They conveniently ignore the things that don't fit their "morality."

I've told the story on here about one of my tax clients who brought his tax info in late and stopped paying his quarterly estimates because he was certain that Jesus was coming back soon. That begs the question "why bring it in at all then?" but we let that go. He made a similar statement last year.

This is the same guy who told me that his church tithes but he considers the social security/medicare tax that he pays personally (he's self employed) as part of that tithe. Does that make any sense? Half of that tax goes directly to his SS account. He considers the other half charity and reduces his church tithe accordingly. How do you belief in god...then not believe that he thinks that strategy is bullshit?

OnWis97

If I didn't know any better (I don't), I'd say this has never been about the kids.

Fox covered Target’s Pride Month displays for hours and the allegations of abuse in the Illinois Catholic Church for less than a minute

https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-covered-targets-pride-month-displays-hours-and-allegations-abuse-illinois-catholic

mrussel1

Gern Blansten said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

They conveniently ignore the things that don't fit their "morality."

I've told the story on here about one of my tax clients who brought his tax info in late and stopped paying his quarterly estimates because he was certain that Jesus was coming back soon. That begs the question "why bring it in at all then?" but we let that go. He made a similar statement last year.

This is the same guy who told me that his church tithes but he considers the social security/medicare tax that he pays personally (he's self employed) as part of that tithe. Does that make any sense? Half of that tax goes directly to his SS account. He considers the other half charity and reduces his church tithe accordingly. How do you belief in god...then not believe that he thinks that strategy is bullshit?

Haha, that's awesome.  Reminds me of the Seventh Day Adventists.  The original sect sold off their possessions, went to the top of a hill and waited for Rapture.  It didn't come.  So they went home, recalculated, accumulated more stuff, got rid of their possessions and did again.  Spoiler, still no Rapture.  Somehow that sect is still around.  I guess they changed their beliefs.  

 

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

They conveniently ignore the things that don't fit their "morality."

I've told the story on here about one of my tax clients who brought his tax info in late and stopped paying his quarterly estimates because he was certain that Jesus was coming back soon. That begs the question "why bring it in at all then?" but we let that go. He made a similar statement last year.

This is the same guy who told me that his church tithes but he considers the social security/medicare tax that he pays personally (he's self employed) as part of that tithe. Does that make any sense? Half of that tax goes directly to his SS account. He considers the other half charity and reduces his church tithe accordingly. How do you belief in god...then not believe that he thinks that strategy is bullshit?

Haha, that's awesome.  Reminds me of the Seventh Day Adventists.  The original sect sold off their possessions, went to the top of a hill and waited for Rapture.  It didn't come.  So they went home, recalculated, accumulated more stuff, got rid of their possessions and did again.  Spoiler, still no Rapture.  Somehow that sect is still around.  I guess they changed their beliefs.  

 

insane....I am always amazed at the people I see making a household income of $100K/year that give $10K to their church. Fuck put it in a college savings account or family vacation fund.

cblock4life

tempo_n_groove said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Not all the churches suck.  I've been to some good ones.

Jesus didn’t pass a collection plate.  All American religions are corrupt in one way or another and some to a lesser degree (there is no degree of sin?) than others.  

cblock4life

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

The notion (as stated by some of you above) that working as pastor, youth group leader, etc. creates access makes sense.  What doesn't make sense is that supposedly Christianity is a faith based at least in part on a sense of morality and yet here you have people committing heinous and highly immoral acts.  It reminds me of Christians who love and support Trump, another example of a confounding disconnect. All I can say is, Jesus would be mightily pissed off.  If you think he lost his cool with the money changers in the temple, imagine how he would feel about these creeps.

American Christianity is a long way from Jesus's teachings.  

Yes. 

cblock4life

Jews believe he was “special” and Muslims believe him to be a prophet.  Christians believe he is the son of God.  Catholics concentrate on the painful part of Christ's life, as if to continually remind them to repent.  Repent for what?  My point is everyone believes differently, the amazing part is most believe in something, some type of “God”.

HughFreakingDillon

My God Is The Sun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFca32_7YUU