What’s up with Fresno?

RatherStarved

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

If I still lived in San Jose, this show would be a no brainer.

Still is!

I've looked into flights and the cost is just too much for us right now. We are going to both London shows in July, and are getting ready to throw down the money for plane tickets back from either London or Paris, depending on where we fly back from. We need to figure it out this weekend. We are going to fly to London, watch the 2 shows and then take the channel train to Paris for a few days. Depending on the difference in the cost of flights, we are going to either fly back from Paris, or take the train back to London and then fly back.  

Fresno is the Paris of the San Joaquin Valley....

Oh man!!   

Back in 2020, I had plans to do Lolla in Paris, then hit the two Amsterdam shows. Two years later, Europe isn't feasible for me, so I get Fresno and OKC. Fair trade, right?

Louisville is the new Vienna for me.  

ClownofThorns

RatherStarved said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

If I still lived in San Jose, this show would be a no brainer.

Still is!

I've looked into flights and the cost is just too much for us right now. We are going to both London shows in July, and are getting ready to throw down the money for plane tickets back from either London or Paris, depending on where we fly back from. We need to figure it out this weekend. We are going to fly to London, watch the 2 shows and then take the channel train to Paris for a few days. Depending on the difference in the cost of flights, we are going to either fly back from Paris, or take the train back to London and then fly back.  

Fresno is the Paris of the San Joaquin Valley....

Oh man!!   

Back in 2020, I had plans to do Lolla in Paris, then hit the two Amsterdam shows. Two years later, Europe isn't feasible for me, so I get Fresno and OKC. Fair trade, right?

Louisville is the new Vienna for me.  

That's an upgrade. 

JeBurkhardt

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

If I still lived in San Jose, this show would be a no brainer.

Still is!

I've looked into flights and the cost is just too much for us right now. We are going to both London shows in July, and are getting ready to throw down the money for plane tickets back from either London or Paris, depending on where we fly back from. We need to figure it out this weekend. We are going to fly to London, watch the 2 shows and then take the channel train to Paris for a few days. Depending on the difference in the cost of flights, we are going to either fly back from Paris, or take the train back to London and then fly back.  

Fresno is the Paris of the San Joaquin Valley....

Oh man!!   

Back in 2020, I had plans to do Lolla in Paris, then hit the two Amsterdam shows. Two years later, Europe isn't feasible for me, so I get Fresno and OKC. Fair trade, right?

Seems fair to me. I have never been to Paris or Amsterdam, but I have been to Fresno and OKC. I imagine they can't be THAT different. 

pledgeagrievance

Round trip from Newark around $800. Really debating whether or not to go. Likely a pipe dream as I can’t even get to Drive By Truckers this week a half hour away. Urrgg

ClownofThorns

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

If I still lived in San Jose, this show would be a no brainer.

Still is!

I've looked into flights and the cost is just too much for us right now. We are going to both London shows in July, and are getting ready to throw down the money for plane tickets back from either London or Paris, depending on where we fly back from. We need to figure it out this weekend. We are going to fly to London, watch the 2 shows and then take the channel train to Paris for a few days. Depending on the difference in the cost of flights, we are going to either fly back from Paris, or take the train back to London and then fly back.  

Fresno is the Paris of the San Joaquin Valley....

Oh man!!   

Back in 2020, I had plans to do Lolla in Paris, then hit the two Amsterdam shows. Two years later, Europe isn't feasible for me, so I get Fresno and OKC. Fair trade, right?

Seems fair to me. I have never been to Paris or Amsterdam, but I have been to Fresno and OKC. I imagine they can't be THAT different. 

Well, depending on where you're from, it may seem like people in Oklahoma are speaking a different language. 

JeBurkhardt

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

ClownofThorns said:

JeBurkhardt said:

If I still lived in San Jose, this show would be a no brainer.

Still is!

I've looked into flights and the cost is just too much for us right now. We are going to both London shows in July, and are getting ready to throw down the money for plane tickets back from either London or Paris, depending on where we fly back from. We need to figure it out this weekend. We are going to fly to London, watch the 2 shows and then take the channel train to Paris for a few days. Depending on the difference in the cost of flights, we are going to either fly back from Paris, or take the train back to London and then fly back.  

Fresno is the Paris of the San Joaquin Valley....

Oh man!!   

Back in 2020, I had plans to do Lolla in Paris, then hit the two Amsterdam shows. Two years later, Europe isn't feasible for me, so I get Fresno and OKC. Fair trade, right?

Seems fair to me. I have never been to Paris or Amsterdam, but I have been to Fresno and OKC. I imagine they can't be THAT different. 

Well, depending on where you're from, it may seem like people in Oklahoma are speaking a different language. 

True. 

Jason7192

amlee said:

It's going to be crazy and I think maybe the most unique show of the tour. Fresno, for those who haven't been on the West Coast is VERY isolated in the state...geographically and I'd say culturally. I lived up and down CA for over a decade and never even came close to going there. Also consider that the Save-Mart Center is 16k capacity but they have blocked out all the seats to the side of and behind the stage...so maybe they're actually selling, what...12-13k? Now look at how many tickets have been sold...

If someone is willing to manually count them (LOL), I think maybe it's a few thousand people in that building as of now...should be wild!

I got bored & counted. Lol. As of this morning, there are just shy of 6600 seats sold plus whatever is in GA. 

Lerxst1992

given2fly23 said:

dr122931 said:

I think another interesting question would be why are they playing in Fresno? They do limited touring. Why not play Portland, Seattle, or somewhere else they could guarantee a sellout? It’s only been 19 years since they’ve  played Houston…

The band isn't just going to pick up and fly to a random city in the middle of the tour. I'm sure the promoter considers things like routing, demand (haven't played Fresno since 2000), venue availability. In this case, obviously the demand isn't there, but it's a day during the tour when the band and crew will get paid. The failure is on the part of LiveNation/TM, but demand is hard to gauge right now due to COVID (people want to do stuff) and inflation/gas (people are tightening up). The band and crew will get paid and the fans will get a killer show. I consider it a win!

But it wasn’t a decision to add shows in the middle of the tour. IIRC the three added shows out west are all at the end of that leg. It could have been managed differently. My bet is the band has most of the say over locations, not LN

General comment, it’s gotten a little absurd to praise the band for keeping their ticket costs low when so many fans spend thousands traveling the country. Maybe that’d happen anyway, but fans in the east and Texas and south have zero choice but to travel, and that’s far more expensive than the cost to see other bands. Yes the band gets paid for poorly selling shows,  but LN needs to make up that cost somehow , so hello PJ Premium 

They have a history of not matching their travel to where their fan base is on a per capita basis. Seems they prefer to play in places they like, which is their right, but IMO they don’t deserve the low cost ticket “championship” that they apparently crave, because where the shows are matters as well as travel costs

Right now all nine  shows out west can be had for a very reasonable cost in the lower bowl of an arena. That’s never happened in the major cities in the east. So for us, FOMO means either a  grand on stub hub, or a grand on travel, plus being exposed to the unreliability of the airline industry. And that industry doesn’t have a very good record currently. 

given2fly23

RK50065 said:

given2fly23 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Not sure why the show that doesn't sell is going to be the show of the tour.  

That’s just how these guys are. In the words of a dear friend after a recent show…that’s why they’re our band. 

so have they done this before or just wishful thinking? 

Katowice 6/16/2000 comes to mind

jammergirl

I commented on another Fresno thread, but I grew up near Yosemite so if anyone has any travel questions for that part of the state please feel free to reach out. I hope this show is special for all of us, I'm still so baffled they chose it but I bet we're all in for a hell of a time! 

JimmyV

Lerxst1992 said:

given2fly23 said:

dr122931 said:

I think another interesting question would be why are they playing in Fresno? They do limited touring. Why not play Portland, Seattle, or somewhere else they could guarantee a sellout? It’s only been 19 years since they’ve  played Houston…

The band isn't just going to pick up and fly to a random city in the middle of the tour. I'm sure the promoter considers things like routing, demand (haven't played Fresno since 2000), venue availability. In this case, obviously the demand isn't there, but it's a day during the tour when the band and crew will get paid. The failure is on the part of LiveNation/TM, but demand is hard to gauge right now due to COVID (people want to do stuff) and inflation/gas (people are tightening up). The band and crew will get paid and the fans will get a killer show. I consider it a win!

But it wasn’t a decision to add shows in the middle of the tour. IIRC the three added shows out west are all at the end of that leg. It could have been managed differently. My bet is the band has most of the say over locations, not LN

General comment, it’s gotten a little absurd to praise the band for keeping their ticket costs low when so many fans spend thousands traveling the country. Maybe that’d happen anyway, but fans in the east and Texas and south have zero choice but to travel, and that’s far more expensive than the cost to see other bands. Yes the band gets paid for poorly selling shows,  but LN needs to make up that cost somehow , so hello PJ Premium 

They have a history of not matching their travel to where their fan base is on a per capita basis. Seems they prefer to play in places they like, which is their right, but IMO they don’t deserve the low cost ticket “championship” that they apparently crave, because where the shows are matters as well as travel costs

Right now all nine  shows out west can be had for a very reasonable cost in the lower bowl of an arena. That’s never happened in the major cities in the east. So for us, FOMO means either a  grand on stub hub, or a grand on travel, plus being exposed to the unreliability of the airline industry. And that industry doesn’t have a very good record currently. 

I'm nodding. But, to be fair, this tour was originally meant to be the first leg of two in 2020, and their layoff at that point was less than two years since the home shows. That it is two years later, that they are back in California, and that the second leg appears to have been scrapped makes this all worse. 

huntersthompson

I think that there is a recurrent theme that California got too many shows. If you laid California over the East Coast it would take up NY, MA, CT, DE, DC, MD, VA, WV, NC, SC and portion of GA that would include Atlanta....There are 40 million people in CA.  Playing Oakland and Sacramento is akin to playing NYC and Camden, NJ.  LA and San Diego would be like playing Atlanta and Charlotte.  Nobody would question those planning decisions.  From a geographic standpoint, the planning makes sense-especially taking into account the long wait for any NoCal shows (9 years since they played the Bay Area). Sacramento (20th largest media market in US) hasn't hosted PJ since 1998 (in town) and 2000 (an hour away).  

Add Vegas and AZ and this geographically becomes as much of an West Coast tour as any East Coast tour that covers that much space...

The Fresno (55th largest media market) addition to the tour is curious...I am interested in seeing if there proves to be anything "unique" about the stop....

For what it is worth, here is a media market list:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

I have always found that this media market list is illuminating when I wonder why artists go to certain cities.  As a West Coast guy I have been stunned to see Sacramento ahead of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc.  

By the way, I am sympathetic to those folks who have gone far too long without a "hometurf" show by PJ.  I feel lucky to have the opportunity to see them in my hometown this time around...

JimmyV

Just wait till Encore gets announced. Run for your lives, there are lead balloons falling from the sky!

amlee

Jason7192 said:

amlee said:

It's going to be crazy and I think maybe the most unique show of the tour. Fresno, for those who haven't been on the West Coast is VERY isolated in the state...geographically and I'd say culturally. I lived up and down CA for over a decade and never even came close to going there. Also consider that the Save-Mart Center is 16k capacity but they have blocked out all the seats to the side of and behind the stage...so maybe they're actually selling, what...12-13k? Now look at how many tickets have been sold...

If someone is willing to manually count them (LOL), I think maybe it's a few thousand people in that building as of now...should be wild!

I got bored & counted. Lol. As of this morning, there are just shy of 6600 seats sold plus whatever is in GA. 

OMG. Yeoman's work! Thank you.

Weston1283

huntersthompson said:

I think that there is a recurrent theme that California got too many shows. If you laid California over the East Coast it would take up NY, MA, CT, DE, DC, MD, VA, WV, NC, SC and portion of GA that would include Atlanta....There are 40 million people in CA.  Playing Oakland and Sacramento is akin to playing NYC and Camden, NJ.  LA and San Diego would be like playing Atlanta and Charlotte.  Nobody would question those planning decisions.  From a geographic standpoint, the planning makes sense-especially taking into account the long wait for any NoCal shows (9 years since they played the Bay Area). Sacramento (20th largest media market in US) hasn't hosted PJ since 1998 (in town) and 2000 (an hour away).  

Add Vegas and AZ and this geographically becomes as much of an West Coast tour as any East Coast tour that covers that much space...

The Fresno (55th largest media market) addition to the tour is curious...I am interested in seeing if there proves to be anything "unique" about the stop....

For what it is worth, here is a media market list:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

I have always found that this media market list is illuminating when I wonder why artists go to certain cities.  As a West Coast guy I have been stunned to see Sacramento ahead of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc.  

By the way, I am sympathetic to those folks who have gone far too long without a "hometurf" show by PJ.  I feel lucky to have the opportunity to see them in my hometown this time around...

I think it just goes back to market interest over size of the market.

I am saying this as unbiased as possible, but Pearl Jam has been an East Coast band for years now.  That is said at no offense to the Seattle, California, etc markets, but it’s as clear as day.  You could even zoom in and say New York and Philly are probably their two “best” markets.  

Why? I have no clue.  I don’t live in either of these cities either.  But the constant struggles for tickets due to demand in the East coast markets compared To some of the others over the last 10 years speak for themselves.  

They could probably announce shows in Wilkes-Barre and Harrisburg PA that would be easy sellouts, and yet Fresno can’t even get to 50%

huntersthompson

Weston1283 said:

huntersthompson said:

I think that there is a recurrent theme that California got too many shows. If you laid California over the East Coast it would take up NY, MA, CT, DE, DC, MD, VA, WV, NC, SC and portion of GA that would include Atlanta....There are 40 million people in CA.  Playing Oakland and Sacramento is akin to playing NYC and Camden, NJ.  LA and San Diego would be like playing Atlanta and Charlotte.  Nobody would question those planning decisions.  From a geographic standpoint, the planning makes sense-especially taking into account the long wait for any NoCal shows (9 years since they played the Bay Area). Sacramento (20th largest media market in US) hasn't hosted PJ since 1998 (in town) and 2000 (an hour away).  

Add Vegas and AZ and this geographically becomes as much of an West Coast tour as any East Coast tour that covers that much space...

The Fresno (55th largest media market) addition to the tour is curious...I am interested in seeing if there proves to be anything "unique" about the stop....

For what it is worth, here is a media market list:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

I have always found that this media market list is illuminating when I wonder why artists go to certain cities.  As a West Coast guy I have been stunned to see Sacramento ahead of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc.  

By the way, I am sympathetic to those folks who have gone far too long without a "hometurf" show by PJ.  I feel lucky to have the opportunity to see them in my hometown this time around...

I think it just goes back to market interest over size of the market.

I am saying this as unbiased as possible, but Pearl Jam has been an East Coast band for years now.  That is said at no offense to the Seattle, California, etc markets, but it’s as clear as day.  You could even zoom in and say New York and Philly are probably their two “best” markets.  

Why? I have no clue.  I don’t live in either of these cities either.  But the constant struggles for tickets due to demand in the East coast markets compared To some of the others over the last 10 years speak for themselves.  

They could probably announce shows in Wilkes-Barre and Harrisburg PA that would be easy sellouts, and yet Fresno can’t even get to 50%

Interesting points for sure...probably a deep dive that you could take into it.  You indicated that you had no clue as to why (neither do I) but there has to be a reason.  Sounds like sitting around, having a couple of drinks and trying to figure this out would be the best course of action.... 

UtahBolt

mcgruff10 said:

PJNB said:

When was the last time this small of a crowd in a large venue was at a Pearl Jam show? Calgary 2013? I bet that had more attendance than this with the snowstorm. Before that? 

I d guess Cleveland 2010 tour or Salt Lake City 2009.  

I was at the Salt Lake 2009 show and they rewarded us with an unbelievable night.  Everything from leading the show with Of The Girl at a fan's request to his daughter, to Ben Harper sitting in on Red Mosquito, to the onstage marriage proposal between fans, to Eddie telling everyone to calm down when the folks behind the pit started pushing their way in.  Fun (and sort of strange) night!  Fresno should be so lucky...

ClownofThorns

Weston1283 said:

huntersthompson said:

I think that there is a recurrent theme that California got too many shows. If you laid California over the East Coast it would take up NY, MA, CT, DE, DC, MD, VA, WV, NC, SC and portion of GA that would include Atlanta....There are 40 million people in CA.  Playing Oakland and Sacramento is akin to playing NYC and Camden, NJ.  LA and San Diego would be like playing Atlanta and Charlotte.  Nobody would question those planning decisions.  From a geographic standpoint, the planning makes sense-especially taking into account the long wait for any NoCal shows (9 years since they played the Bay Area). Sacramento (20th largest media market in US) hasn't hosted PJ since 1998 (in town) and 2000 (an hour away).  

Add Vegas and AZ and this geographically becomes as much of an West Coast tour as any East Coast tour that covers that much space...

The Fresno (55th largest media market) addition to the tour is curious...I am interested in seeing if there proves to be anything "unique" about the stop....

For what it is worth, here is a media market list:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

I have always found that this media market list is illuminating when I wonder why artists go to certain cities.  As a West Coast guy I have been stunned to see Sacramento ahead of Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, etc.  

By the way, I am sympathetic to those folks who have gone far too long without a "hometurf" show by PJ.  I feel lucky to have the opportunity to see them in my hometown this time around...

I think it just goes back to market interest over size of the market.

I am saying this as unbiased as possible, but Pearl Jam has been an East Coast band for years now.  That is said at no offense to the Seattle, California, etc markets, but it’s as clear as day.  You could even zoom in and say New York and Philly are probably their two “best” markets.  

Why? I have no clue.  I don’t live in either of these cities either.  But the constant struggles for tickets due to demand in the East coast markets compared To some of the others over the last 10 years speak for themselves.  

They could probably announce shows in Wilkes-Barre and Harrisburg PA that would be easy sellouts, and yet Fresno can’t even get to 50%

Very interesting thoughts. I wonder, though, about the other parts of the countries (to step aside from West Coast / East Coast). Nashville is a very difficult ticket and St. Louis isn't far behind that.

While it is obvious MSG will always be a difficult ticket, the NY transferability laws make it a less than ideal comparison, because the resale market makes face-value tickets entirely nonexistent. So, is Camden significantly more difficult than Nashville or StL?

Obviously California is saturated and Fresno--isolated and not a particularly great destination--looks like a questionable decision. But, the Eastern 3/4 of the country....I'm not sure we have enough info to say how well shows would do in, say, Houston, DFW, Atlanta, Cleveland, Pittsburg, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Detroit, etc. etc., vs., say, Philly. 

JeBurkhardt

JimmyV said:

Just wait till Encore gets announced. Run for your lives, there are lead balloons falling from the sky!

I can only hope.

cp3iverson

Well I have a feeling Houston would be one of the better selling shows.  4th largest market in the country.  

There’s markets that obviously are weird choices (Fresno reminds me of when they played Alabama again in 03).  

But then you have markets like Atlanta, Houston, NOLA, Dallas that would sell really well.   Probably not as quickly as Philly or MSG but I think you’re looking at popular spots.