Yeah, issuing fully transferable Ten Club tickets couldn't possibly lead to any undesirable unintended consequences
No one is suggesting fully transferable Ten Club tix. What was said above is, if you're gonna charge me $2,000.00 per ticket, make it transferable.
EXACTLY this. Once I buy something it is mine and I should be able to do with it as I wish. Anytime I hear someone complaining about scalping whether it be merch or tickets I say to them....sell me your house for exactly what you paid then......they shut up real quick. Tickets like anything are a commodity. What teams....bands....events.....fail to realize by controlling the secondary market on goods you are only hurting yourself. I can list tons of examples of negative repercussions to attempting to controlling the market around you. These events at certain prices need a market for people to buy and sell or else they simply wont get sold. The Cali shows are a great example.
$300 tickets are more and more common. Sucks, yes, but some of the comments remind me of my grandfather, "I remember when gas a nickel a gallon."
Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Try reading past my first sentence.
You said you don't know if the band is making more money off PJ Premium. Simply put: They are.
Maybe you're right, in fact you probably are, but you claimed that I thought they didn't, and I did not say that. I only said I don't know because that's the only truthful thing I could say. I don't know, and neither do you.
Sorry for coming across that way. Not my intent. But as I said in my post above this one, the band definitely makes money off platinum tickets, all artists do, unless Pearl Jam decided to be the exception and let Ticketmaster keep all the added profit.
Yes, of course, on each individual platinum ticket they make more money than off of a face value ticket. But the question is, do they make more money overall? If the money they make on platinum tickets is to offset not making as much on the rest of the face value tickets, as they told us from the beginning, it's possible they don't make any more. It's never that simple though.
Possibly true. But when tickets pop up at $5,000 each it's a bad look. Just bump every ticket on the tour a reasonable amount ($10, $20 whatever makes the numbers work), keep restricting resale by using mobile tickets with only F2F transfer (I know MSG and Denver would be an issue but all other shows you basically quash most of the secondary market), and it doesn't come across like you are gouging fans. Especially this band and all they said in the past about ticket prices and Ticketmaster. Just a very bad look in my insignificant opinion.
Agreed, it's a bad look when people look up tickets and that's all they see, which is why naming it PJ Premium instead of Platinum made it worse. That had to be part of the negotiation. Before Platinum, people would have seen no tickets at all, it just would have been sold out. The band didn't look bad, but it wasn't any better for fans either as they would have just had to pay the inflated prices to resellers instead. I doubt the band really cares how it looks though. If they think they made the best deal possible, and they're the ones that end up looking bad, I can see them being fine with that.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.
You're not seeing all the tickets TM has held back. I wish it was just 50-100/show. That might not be so bad. If they sell this wave of PJ Premium, there is another wave of PJ Premiums behind them. We saw this with Ed's tour. When Platinum didn't sell, they dumped a large inventory of some of the best seats days before the show (and sold many tickets below face, undercutting F2F sales).
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.
I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona? Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
This is the point a lot of ppl keep overlooking. Platinum pricing is something that didn't even really exist until maybe 10 years ago. Prior to that, every band/artist in history successfully toured without it and just charged a fixed price for tickets. Many artists (including some even bigger than PJ) still do. I get that costs associated with touring have increased. But the increase in ticket prices over the years have reflected that. So those of you who are making excuses for and defending PJ for caving in can go try to sell that BS elsewhere. Because I'm not buying it.
Do you believe that Ticketmaster sits there at the negotiation and says "Sure Pearl Jam management, have all these fan club seat allocations, and also, have non-transferable tickets so that bots cant gobble them up, oh, and also, let us run a verified fan for you to limit the market even more to your direct fan base and hopefully not scalpers, AND we are going to do all of this for nothing in return, we will even sell the regular tickets at a cheap cost for all" It is not how that business, or the world, works. Business contracts and about give and take - the business of Pearl Jam takes A LOT for the 10Club, and for the verified fan - the give is ultimately the Premium seats and that system. I mean, they explicitly state as much in their tour announcement. I really don't get what people don't understand about it. And if they werent dealing with Ticketmaster and LiveNation, we wouldn' be seeing them live at all - so please don't argue that.
Do I need to remind you that the vast majority of these were rescheduled shows and the contracts had been negotiated long ago? They didn't need this shit then and they didn't need to cave to it now.
Ugh - Do you think Ticketmaster sat there and said " Hey Pearl Jam management, I know your fans have been sitting on tickets for over two years, but here is what we are going to do. We are going to let you keep all those tickets that were sold at a lower price two years ago, and still hold the show in our venue where prices to put on shows have jumped nearly 20%. And, you know all those fans that turned in tickets - we are going to give all those back to you and let you sell them at a lower cost as well. We don't mind eating it on this one. And, lets do the same with the 4 new shows you have booked - we dont have any need to recoup any losses from the last two years. I really wish we would have written in our contract two years ago some sort of Force Majeure clause." I can guarantee you they had Force Majeure language - contracts from two years ago meant next to nothing when negotiating next steps for the rescheduled shows.
Do you really think that in March 2020, when TM/LN had lost ALL of their business, they really sat down and told Pearl Jam that they'd only let them reschedule their shows if they paid them a shit ton more money?
Absolutely yes - I would bet my left arm that TM was able to void their original contracts due to the unforeseen, drastic effects of Covid - and then there was surely aggressive negotiation from both sides after that, one for PJ to keep as much as they could, while at the same time securing all that they could for their fans at the new shows, two for TM to recoup what they could, while not losing the revenue a PJ tour brings - simple business really, not at all building rockets here
You're not seeing all the tickets TM has held back. I wish it was just 50-100/show. That might not be so bad. If they sell this wave of PJ Premium, there is another wave of PJ Premiums behind them. We saw this with Ed's tour. When Platinum didn't sell, they dumped a large inventory of some of the best seats days before the show (and sold many tickets below face, undercutting F2F sales).
This is true. I have been monitoring MSG all day and there are new ones since last night. And that's something given the original sell date for this concert was 2 years ago and I would have thought returns were minimal. I haven't looked at Vegas but it is probably worse.
You're not seeing all the tickets TM has held back. I wish it was just 50-100/show. That might not be so bad. If they sell this wave of PJ Premium, there is another wave of PJ Premiums behind them. We saw this with Ed's tour. When Platinum didn't sell, they dumped a large inventory of some of the best seats days before the show (and sold many tickets below face, undercutting F2F sales).
Yep. Ed's tour was a shit show in that regard. Doubtful those numbers of tickets exist for the rescheduled shows, but Camden and Vegas? We'll see.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.
I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona? Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...
I’ve seen it mentioned but I think the one adjustment needed is that the PJ premium seats need to be transferable.
If I buy a fan club ticket for $125-150, and I can sell it for face if I can’t go, there’s a good chance it’ll sell and at worst I’m out $150.
But if I buy a premium seat for $2000+ and my only recourse is to list at $2000+ There’s a good chance it won’t sell, and I’ll lose $2000+.
Ticketmaster/the band has their $2000, that they consider market value, so what I do with that ticket shouldn’t matter to them.
Easy change would be to allow faceor loweron F2F. There is no reason to limit the bottom except to give TM an edge on selling on their tickets. Consumer gets screwed.
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
Real question is how many fans are being alienated by the shuts outs and platinum sticker shock? If I was a casual fan and logged on to see $5,000 tickets I might not bother next time a tour is announced. Maybe TM doesn’t care if they get their max return each time but you think the band would care.
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
I hate TM manufacturing scarcity, by only showing a portion of the PJ Premium tickets they are holding back. It messes with your head, and can cause desperate decision making. If you think these are the last good tickets, you may irrationally pay $1,000+ for a good seat. That's not "market pricing." That's mindfuckery and monopoly pricing.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.
I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona? Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...
I dont think that "elite" is necessarily the mentality.
I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"
I am ok with that.
Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.
Real question is how many fans are being alienated by the shuts outs and platinum sticker shock? If I was a casual fan and logged on to see $5,000 tickets I might not bother next time a tour is announced. Maybe TM doesn’t care if they get their max return each time but you think the band would care.
As a fan of other bands, seeing Platinum on nearly every other band I go to see, it would not phase me. I always check my favorite bands and I always see those ridiculous prices, but I keep coming back and trying to get lower cost tickets.
I hate TM manufacturing scarcity, by only showing a portion of the PJ Premium tickets they are holding back. It messes with your head, and can cause desperate decision making. If you think these are the last good tickets, you may irrationally pay $1,000+ for a good seat. That's not "market pricing." That's mindfuckery and monopoly pricing.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.
I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona? Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...
I dont think that "elite" is necessarily the mentality.
I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"
I am ok with that.
Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.
For me "elite" = "premium." To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers. However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.
I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona? Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
Real question is how many fans are being alienated by the shuts outs and platinum sticker shock? If I was a casual fan and logged on to see $5,000 tickets I might not bother next time a tour is announced. Maybe TM doesn’t care if they get their max return each time but you think the band would care.
As a fan of other bands, seeing Platinum on nearly every other band I go to see, it would not phase me. I always check my favorite bands and I always see those ridiculous prices, but I keep coming back and trying to get lower cost tickets.
Fair enough!
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.
I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona? Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...
I dont think that "elite" is necessarily the mentality.
I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"
I am ok with that.
Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.
For me "elite" = "premium." To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers. However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.
Fair point, but I dont see it as hypocrisy.
First, I think this is more of a TM thing than a 10C or band thing.
But even in light of that...those days 30 years ago are long gone, as someone said. Trying to hold them to some idealistic standard that was set way back then is just unfair. If they want to tour, they have to play by the system that is in place. I'm sure they would rather play by a different set of rules, but they have to do what they can.
Remember the disaster when they tried to tour without TM? It was nearly impossible for people to get tickets. Forget fan clubs for a moment, just actually anyone getting to see them was a disaster.
It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
Yes, they are. It's how Live Nation gets bands to agree to it. They divvy up the added revenue with the band, usually through a percentage of net profit from tix sales beyond the flat fee paid for the show/tour. Do you really think PJ would agree to this and just let Ticketmaster and Live Nation (one and the same) reap the only financial benefit? If there were no benefit to the band they wouldn't sign off on it, And be sure, they signed off on it.
If you read my whole post, I did mention the benefit in signing off on this. I just suspect that the benefit doesn't equate to more cash in the bank accounts of Eddie Vedder and co.
You're suggesting it does, and perhaps it's possible you are right. Based on my knowledge of how ticketmaster operates as a business however, I highly doubt that is the case. Can you prove the band is receiving extra revenue from inflated platinum ticket sales? Do you know this for a fact?
Just generally, you are definitely wrong. Ed's tour is a perfect example. When promoters bid on shows, the artist normally asks for a guarantee. The artist could take less money and then there is less need for platinum ticketing. All involved are making more money. In Ed's case, he had a band that was no doubt very expensive to tour with and he was playing small venues. For him to make lots of money, the promoters needed the Platinum Tickets.
Now it is true, on a Pearl Jam tour, the fan club tickets do become another factor that has to be considered and is something that is a part of the negotiation. But at the end of the day, it is 100 percent sure that Pearl Jam is making more money from the Platinum Ticketing.
And as far as how Ticketmaster operates as a business, that is a notion fans use to console themselves when an artist does something they don't like. Ticketmaster doesn't set pricing. Promoters and the artist do as part of the negotiations mentioned above. Of course, sometimes Live Nation is the promoter so that makes it murkier but TM does not set prices.
I’ve seen it mentioned but I think the one adjustment needed is that the PJ premium seats need to be transferable.
If I buy a fan club ticket for $125-150, and I can sell it for face if I can’t go, there’s a good chance it’ll sell and at worst I’m out $150.
But if I buy a premium seat for $2000+ and my only recourse is to list at $2000+ There’s a good chance it won’t sell, and I’ll lose $2000+.
Ticketmaster/the band has their $2000, that they consider market value, so what I do with that ticket shouldn’t matter to them.
Easy change would be to allow faceor loweron F2F. There is no reason to limit the bottom except to give TM an edge on selling on their tickets. Consumer gets screwed.
That’s a good idea as well. I’ve seen Ticketmaster purposefully undercut as the show draws near, ie. releasing tickets one row closer, $50 cheaper.
Fascinating thread. Clearly a polarizing topic. In the end, the most transparent way to do it is to just come out and charge higher ticket prices, at FIXED prices, throughout the venue. GA and best seats get Tier 1, whatever that may be. Good seats get Tier 2. Nosebleeds get Tier 3. They surely have a target revenue number going into each show and tour, so price the tickets accordingly. It is really that simple. No more smoke and mirror bullshit with the variable Platinum, I mean PJ, Pricing. And no more artificial scarcity.
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
I was under the impression TM doesn't force platinum. Not all artists use it. Most do now, but not all. TM invented platinum as a way to earn more concert revenue which benefits everyone (TM, promoter, band, etc...). But you don't need to use it, but it's going to get you a larger gaurantee from the promoter as it allows them to create more revenue.
I kind of felt like because the recording aspect of the business pays bunk now, that they're figuring out how to make more touring. One of those things was.. how do we dip into what the scalpers make off our tickets.
That's my thoughts. I think it'll continue because everyone gets paid more from it, but I'm not entirely convinced it's mandatory, but I would say it's hard to pass up in a world where you barely get paid to record music.
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
I was under the impression TM doesn't force platinum. Not all artists use it. Most do now, but not all. TM invented platinum as a way to earn more concert revenue which benefits everyone (TM, promoter, band, etc...). But you don't need to use it, but it's going to get you a larger gaurantee from the promoter as it allows them to create more revenue.
I kind of felt like because the recording aspect of the business pays bunk now, that they're figuring out how to make more touring. One of those things was.. how do we dip into what the scalpers make off our tickets.
That's my thoughts. I think it'll continue because everyone gets paid more from it, but I'm not entirely convinced it's mandatory, but I would say it's hard to pass up in a world where you barely get paid to record music.
That is also a good point. Albums are basically a gift. I mean, I know they make money, esp vinyl. But I assume they have to front the money to get the album made....studios, recording, mixing, then making the physical media, which means paying for all that in advance, etc. That much has not changed, but the fact that physical (and even digital) album sales are basically a dead thing....touring is even more important to a band than ever.
That is also why you see newer artists...."Selling out" early...I hate to use that term, but radio is dead. Algorithims sometimes dictate what songs are played to you and they usually pick repeats...so some of these newer artists need to have their music heard in commercials or movies/tv/games, etc.
But yeah, touring is really the only thing the artist fully controls and can make real money off of.
Comments
Pearl Jam topped that price a few weeks later.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Nuclear fission
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Nuclear fission
This is true. I have been monitoring MSG all day and there are new ones since last night. And that's something given the original sell date for this concert was 2 years ago and I would have thought returns were minimal. I haven't looked at Vegas but it is probably worse.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Pearl Jammers Testify Before Congress : Pop music: Before a House panel, members of the Seattle band allege monopolistic practices by Ticketmaster, whose chief executive counters the charges. - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)
I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"
I am ok with that.
Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.
Nuclear fission
Nuclear fission
Nuclear fission
To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers.
However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
First, I think this is more of a TM thing than a 10C or band thing.
But even in light of that...those days 30 years ago are long gone, as someone said. Trying to hold them to some idealistic standard that was set way back then is just unfair. If they want to tour, they have to play by the system that is in place. I'm sure they would rather play by a different set of rules, but they have to do what they can.
Remember the disaster when they tried to tour without TM? It was nearly impossible for people to get tickets. Forget fan clubs for a moment, just actually anyone getting to see them was a disaster.
Nuclear fission
Now it is true, on a Pearl Jam tour, the fan club tickets do become another factor that has to be considered and is something that is a part of the negotiation. But at the end of the day, it is 100 percent sure that Pearl Jam is making more money from the Platinum Ticketing.
And as far as how Ticketmaster operates as a business, that is a notion fans use to console themselves when an artist does something they don't like. Ticketmaster doesn't set pricing. Promoters and the artist do as part of the negotiations mentioned above. Of course, sometimes Live Nation is the promoter so that makes it murkier but TM does not set prices.
Nuclear fission
I kind of felt like because the recording aspect of the business pays bunk now, that they're figuring out how to make more touring. One of those things was.. how do we dip into what the scalpers make off our tickets.
That's my thoughts. I think it'll continue because everyone gets paid more from it, but I'm not entirely convinced it's mandatory, but I would say it's hard to pass up in a world where you barely get paid to record music.
That is also why you see newer artists...."Selling out" early...I hate to use that term, but radio is dead. Algorithims sometimes dictate what songs are played to you and they usually pick repeats...so some of these newer artists need to have their music heard in commercials or movies/tv/games, etc.
But yeah, touring is really the only thing the artist fully controls and can make real money off of.
Nuclear fission