“PJ Premium” on Ticketmaster?

Lerxst1992

Poncier said:

mpedone said:

 , it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.

They simply oversaturated the California market and ignored some of their strongest markets.
Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.

They're not the least bit curious how big of an msg residence they could pull off. They'd rather play for smaller markets. Fans should be giving them credit for that, not complaining that a small % of tickets are selling for market value.

Poncier

Lerxst1992 said:

Poncier said:

mpedone said:

 , it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.

They simply oversaturated the California market and ignored some of their strongest markets.
Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.

They're not the least bit curious how big of an msg residence they could pull off. They'd rather play for smaller markets. Fans should be giving them credit for that, not complaining that a small % of tickets are selling for market value.

Should fans give them credit for doing 7 of 15 US shows in one state, the year after they did 3 of their only 4 shows in that same state?

JimmyV

Lerxst1992 said:

Poncier said:

mpedone said:

 , it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.

They simply oversaturated the California market and ignored some of their strongest markets.
Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.

They're not the least bit curious how big of an msg residence they could pull off. They'd rather play for smaller markets. Fans should be giving them credit for that, not complaining that a small % of tickets are selling for market value.

You think TM's algorithm would be kicking out a $4,500 ticket price if there were multiple shows at MSG and more spread across the northeast? They've created artificial scarcity by scheduling so few shows. I'm not sure how much credit I'm supposed to give them for that. 

MakeUSmile

There’s a whole new chunk of premiums for Camden released in 104 this morning.  About 15 additional tickets at $1,200 a piece 

JojoRice

Release the F2F sales already!!  Enough of this premium stuff. 

cmalisze

Zod said:

cmalisze said:

Maybe I have not been as clear as I could have. The hypocrisy I refer to is this.....in this instance the band and TM are telling us as fans "what's good for me is not good for thee" they can dynamically price their PJ premium seats which, let's call it what it is is SCALPING, is perfectly fine and dandy. We, as fans, cannot even transfer a ticket to a friend coming with us to a show if they are running late, let alone sell it. The persona I refer to that was established over 30 years is the speak truth to power....intolerant of being taken advantage of attitude I believed still existed. We cannot even post a 2 for 1 ticket trade on the board without being chastised.  If both parties are happy what is the issue? If I want to buy a PJ Premium ticket and I am happy then what is the issue? No issue in one instance. 

I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too. 

However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even if it to something or someone you love. 

All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans. 

I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.

It's not scalping when you're selling your own tickets for the price you want to be selling them at.. lol.  Scalping is buying a ticket then flipping it for more.   Selling a thing for a specified price, even if expensive, is just selling a thing.

There is no specified price for a "PJ Premier" seat. The pricing varies on the market.....which is why I called it scalping. The price is not concrete. Fair enough that it is their "own" ticket to do with what they please....all I think then is that when I purchase a ticket of theirs no matter for "PJ Non-Premium" or "PJ Premium" I also should be able to do whatever I wish to do with it because at that point I own it. What's good from them isn't good for us. When there was no "PJ Premium" I had no issue with transfers being locked etc. until this. This is valid. 

pdalowsky

so 17 pages in, have we settled this yet? 

cmalisze

pdalowsky said:

so 17 pages in, have we settled this yet? 

Never have never will......we are now pawns........

JP218404

pdalowsky said:

so 17 pages in, have we settled this yet? 

When do we get premium merch!!!

JimmyV

MakeUSmile said:

There’s a whole new chunk of premiums for Camden released in 104 this morning.  About 15 additional tickets at $1,200 a piece 

This is not a good sign for how Platinum would be rolled out during a full tour. 

Zod

aisleseats said:

There is no specified price for a "PJ Premier" seat. The pricing varies on the market.....which is why I called it scalping. The price is not concrete. Fair enough that it is their "own" ticket to do with what they please....all I think then is that when I purchase a ticket of theirs no matter for "PJ Non-Premium" or "PJ Premium" I also should be able to do whatever I wish to do with it because at that point I own it. What's good from them isn't good for us. When there was no "PJ Premium" I had no issue with transfers being locked etc. until this. This is valid. 

Absolutely.  I was only taking issue with calling it scalping, when it's not technically scalping.   Completely agree with everything else you said.

I understand why their doing it.  On the flip side it doesn't mean I have to like it :(

ddeschler

"Market pricing" would involve another company similar to TM, competing with TM, giving bands a choice of venues and service fee/guarantee structures.  Unfortunately, there is no "market" or "market pricing" in this situation, just a monopoly.  We used to have anti-trust laws in the US to keep consumers from being taken advantage of in this fashion.  It seems their enforcement isn't a priority any longer.

steven87

MakeUSmile said:

There’s a whole new chunk of premiums for Camden released in 104 this morning.  About 15 additional tickets at $1,200 a piece 

Look, they’re down from $2k. What a bargain! Must buy now!

cmalisze

Zod said:

aisleseats said:

There is no specified price for a "PJ Premier" seat. The pricing varies on the market.....which is why I called it scalping. The price is not concrete. Fair enough that it is their "own" ticket to do with what they please....all I think then is that when I purchase a ticket of theirs no matter for "PJ Non-Premium" or "PJ Premium" I also should be able to do whatever I wish to do with it because at that point I own it. What's good from them isn't good for us. When there was no "PJ Premium" I had no issue with transfers being locked etc. until this. This is valid. 

Absolutely.  I was only taking issue with calling it scalping, when it's not technically scalping.   Completely agree with everything else you said.

I understand why their doing it.  On the flip side it doesn't mean I have to like it :(

Curious to learn of your understanding.

My understanding was that our tickets were always planned to be locked because the Ten Club and the band cared about pricing integrity and limiting resale at above and beyond what was determined to be face value by THEM. Now that they, and TM, are benefitting from the lack of pricing integrity, only when it comes to them for variable pricing, I say all bets should be off. Still entice us as fans to join the Ten Club for the continued chance to land reasonably priced seats, no matter the location but allow us to transfer, sell for whatever price we want, trade for any return we want etc. Now it simply feels like the Ten Club and the band are gaslighting us members/fanatics. We are being told that limiting resale capabilities, transfers, or any other mechanism of control of our own purchase was for our own protection in the long run to maintain low prices and best access.  Surely isn't how this looks/feels. It seems and feels like all this is occurring to ensure the "PJ Premium" seats are able to be moved at whatever price is decided on at that given time by a computer designed to maximize profits off of us as fans. Plain and simple....if our ability to transfer or sell tickets was lifted the need/desire for "PJ Premium" tickets would drastically decrease. 

We haven't even discussed why the F2F hasn't been turned on yet either.....I will give you a guess......

"And like weeds with big leaves - Stealing light from what's beneath" 

mpedone

ddeschler said:

"Market pricing" would involve another company similar to TM, competing with TM, giving bands a choice of venues and service fee/guarantee structures.  Unfortunately, there is no "market" or "market pricing" in this situation, just a monopoly.  We used to have anti-trust laws in the US to keep consumers from being taken advantage of in this fashion.  It seems their enforcement isn't a priority any longer.

I'm okay with believing there are reason they felt it was necessary this tour, but I am hung up on the point you bring up. I guess it's technically legal because they can set whatever price they like, but the face value for all of these tickets is the same, so they are jacking up the prices against themselves. Again, a technicality is that the F2F does allow fans to buy tickets at face value, even when all that TM has directly available is Premium, but then, the "market value" is...FACE VALUE. And then, you add on top of that the fact that they have more seats than what they list on the site, and it just gets shadier and shadier.

TM gets by on so many technicalities. They are functionally a monopoly, because they control pretty much anyplace PJ and other bands of their size would play, but they don't control EVERYTHING, so - again technically - not a monopoly.

What I keep running into, though, is what do we do about it? What can we do? Hope the Cali shows don't sell out? TM won't care, but will the band?

Poncier

cmalisze said:

Zod said:

aisleseats said:

There is no specified price for a "PJ Premier" seat. The pricing varies on the market.....which is why I called it scalping. The price is not concrete. Fair enough that it is their "own" ticket to do with what they please....all I think then is that when I purchase a ticket of theirs no matter for "PJ Non-Premium" or "PJ Premium" I also should be able to do whatever I wish to do with it because at that point I own it. What's good from them isn't good for us. When there was no "PJ Premium" I had no issue with transfers being locked etc. until this. This is valid. 

Absolutely.  I was only taking issue with calling it scalping, when it's not technically scalping.   Completely agree with everything else you said.

I understand why their doing it.  On the flip side it doesn't mean I have to like it :(

We haven't even discussed why the F2F hasn't been turned on yet either.....I will give you a guess......

Maybe Boom forgot to flip the switch.

JBob87

On the one hand, I certainly understand that costs have gone up. Live Nation actually releases pretty detailed financial information...and while Platinum was key for driving revenue (as that article pointed out and the company emphasizes in their report), profit margin for the concert portion of their business was -14% in Q4 of 2021 vs -5% of Q4 of 2019. So costs are certainly through the roof, as even with the increase in revenue from Platinum concerts are still much less profitable now than they were pre-pandemic.

That said, the false scarcity tactics being employed are extremely manipulative (preying on FOMO), unethical, and the only reason TM/Live Nation gets away with it is due to the power imbalance between their company and fans. I have no idea, how they are not legally considered a monopoly. But I know antitrust laws are woefully outdated. (Similarly, not being able to take a loss on Fan 2 Fan is extremely anti-consumer)

Regarding PJ, I would be so curious to know if this tour and the platinum model ends of being a net positive for them & TM financially. I think they really overplayed their hand with the amount of CA shows. How many MSG platinum tickets do you need to sell to make out for sections worth of tickets being unsold in multiple CA shows? I'm not so sure that big picture TM comes out ahead rather than just selling out 20 shows at face instantly.

Poncier

mpedone said:

ddeschler said:

"Market pricing" would involve another company similar to TM, competing with TM, giving bands a choice of venues and service fee/guarantee structures.  Unfortunately, there is no "market" or "market pricing" in this situation, just a monopoly.  We used to have anti-trust laws in the US to keep consumers from being taken advantage of in this fashion.  It seems their enforcement isn't a priority any longer.

I'm okay with believing there are reason they felt it was necessary this tour,

The $264,000.00 question (the answer to which will afford you the luxury of 6 PJ Premium MSG seats) is "is this for this tour only?"
Doubtful. This is likely the way going forward. Tough to put the genie back in the bottle once it's been released. Once Stone realizes he can now afford to buy dish soap, that's it.

mpedone

Poncier said:

mpedone said:

ddeschler said:

"Market pricing" would involve another company similar to TM, competing with TM, giving bands a choice of venues and service fee/guarantee structures.  Unfortunately, there is no "market" or "market pricing" in this situation, just a monopoly.  We used to have anti-trust laws in the US to keep consumers from being taken advantage of in this fashion.  It seems their enforcement isn't a priority any longer.

I'm okay with believing there are reason they felt it was necessary this tour,

The $264,000.00 question (the answer to which will afford you the luxury of 6 PJ Premium MSG seats) is "is this for this tour only?"
Doubtful. This is likely the way going forward. Tough to put the genie back in the bottle once it's been released. Once Stone realizes he can now afford to buy dish soap, that's it.

My hope is that it is just for this tour, but that's probably wishful thinking; my point in using that phrase wasn't suggesting it's *just* for this tour.

Zod

yah, I'm not so sure.   It was also used on the EV tour of which those tickets seemed to be priced for 2022 expenses/costs.   :(