If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
I'll admit...when I saw the premium stuff for Ed's shows, I was like, "Hmm", but i didnt give it much more thought than that. With recent events, I'm just happy I get to still see them play live from time to time. Nothing is guaranteed.
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
I was under the impression TM doesn't force platinum. Not all artists use it. Most do now, but not all. TM invented platinum as a way to earn more concert revenue which benefits everyone (TM, promoter, band, etc...). But you don't need to use it, but it's going to get you a larger gaurantee from the promoter as it allows them to create more revenue.
I kind of felt like because the recording aspect of the business pays bunk now, that they're figuring out how to make more touring. One of those things was.. how do we dip into what the scalpers make off our tickets.
That's my thoughts. I think it'll continue because everyone gets paid more from it, but I'm not entirely convinced it's mandatory, but I would say it's hard to pass up in a world where you barely get paid to record music.
I believe, without actually knowing, that it is very close to, if not, absolutely mandatory. They do not want to lose a nickel to the resellers and that is what is driving this. Not simply getting more for each show. They want to put stubhub out of business. This is all TM business strategy and modeling. TM withholds the seats from public sale and resellers cannot obtain them at the lower cost. Its that simple. It is not about the band, the fans or anything else. It is about selling tickets at the highest possible market price instead of a fixed pre-determined price.
They do not want to sell a ticket for $200 when someone will pay $600 for the same ticket. TM has very sophisticated and automated algorithms to understand the market prices and the exact timing to raise or lower prices based on demand. It is very smart from a business perspective. Hedge fund strategy being executed by a monopoly where the fan/consumer is the loser.
Edit: Live Nation is the promoter for most TM events. Guess who owns them? TM.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
Just did a count at Fresno for shits & giggles, there's 224 on the map currently and you can tell where others near them have sold. Plus as others mentioned, what we saw with EdVed and the Martians means we'll likely see more added. So while it's not thousands upon thousands, it's not 50-100, and also its the specific seats that used to be verbatim promised to 10 clubbers (floor directly behind pit, and best seats in lower bowl).
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
Once again ticket issues have come up. Why doesn't the ten club just be open and honest about ticketing. Rationale adults can handle the truth. Most posts I read are all speculation or from people "who know how the business works".
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
Once again ticket issues have come up. Why doesn't the ten club just be open and honest about ticketing. Rationale adults can handle the truth. Most posts I read are all speculation or from people "who know how the business works".
Are you doubting people who say trust me on the internet? I'm shocked! ;-)
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
Once again ticket issues have come up. Why doesn't the ten club just be open and honest about ticketing. Rationale adults can handle the truth. Most posts I read are all speculation or from people "who know how the business works".
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.
And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.
Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.
It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.
I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona? Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?
Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...
I dont think that "elite" is necessarily the mentality.
I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"
I am ok with that.
Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.
For me "elite" = "premium." To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers. However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.
Fair point, but I dont see it as hypocrisy.
First, I think this is more of a TM thing than a 10C or band thing.
But even in light of that...those days 30 years ago are long gone, as someone said. Trying to hold them to some idealistic standard that was set way back then is just unfair. If they want to tour, they have to play by the system that is in place. I'm sure they would rather play by a different set of rules, but they have to do what they can.
Remember the disaster when they tried to tour without TM? It was nearly impossible for people to get tickets. Forget fan clubs for a moment, just actually anyone getting to see them was a disaster.
Maybe I have not been as clear as I could have. The hypocrisy I refer to is this.....in this instance the band and TM are telling us as fans "what's good for me is not good for thee" they can dynamically price their PJ premium seats which, let's call it what it is is SCALPING, is perfectly fine and dandy. We, as fans, cannot even transfer a ticket to a friend coming with us to a show if they are running late, let alone sell it. The persona I refer to that was established over 30 years is the speak truth to power....intolerant of being taken advantage of attitude I believed still existed. We cannot even post a 2 for 1 ticket trade on the board without being chastised. If both parties are happy what is the issue? If I want to buy a PJ Premium ticket and I am happy then what is the issue? No issue in one instance.
I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too.
However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even to something or someone you love.
All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans.
I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
Once again ticket issues have come up. Why doesn't the ten club just be open and honest about ticketing. Rationale adults can handle the truth. Most posts I read are all speculation or from people "who know how the business works".
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.
I guess. Nothing is stopping the ten club from saying what percentage of tickets they receive for members or are they knowing in on scalped tickets such as "pearl jam premium tickets". It's wierd they don't come out with a statement to clear the air on these type of tickets. Unless they are in on it and making more money themselves.
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
Once again ticket issues have come up. Why doesn't the ten club just be open and honest about ticketing. Rationale adults can handle the truth. Most posts I read are all speculation or from people "who know how the business works".
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.
I guess. Nothing is stopping the ten club from saying what percentage of tickets they receive for members or are they knowing in on scalped tickets such as "pearl jam premium tickets". It's wierd they don't come out with a statement to clear the air on these type of tickets. Unless they are in on it and making more money themselves.
They are in a no win. I don't envy. Plus most fans are indifferent or clueless when it comes to these things. It's us fanatics that are concerned. Small minority.
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
Once again ticket issues have come up. Why doesn't the ten club just be open and honest about ticketing. Rationale adults can handle the truth. Most posts I read are all speculation or from people "who know how the business works".
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.
I guess. Nothing is stopping the ten club from saying what percentage of tickets they receive for members or are they knowing in on scalped tickets such as "pearl jam premium tickets". It's wierd they don't come out with a statement to clear the air on these type of tickets. Unless they are in on it and making more money themselves.
They cannot disclose that information. It is considered proprietary and a trade secret. Edit: I guess they did disclose that there would be premium tickets, but in a very subtle way. Perhaps approved by TM lawyers.
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
Once again ticket issues have come up. Why doesn't the ten club just be open and honest about ticketing. Rationale adults can handle the truth. Most posts I read are all speculation or from people "who know how the business works".
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.
I guess. Nothing is stopping the ten club from saying what percentage of tickets they receive for members or are they knowing in on scalped tickets such as "pearl jam premium tickets". It's wierd they don't come out with a statement to clear the air on these type of tickets. Unless they are in on it and making more money themselves.
Though you're making it sound nefarious, you are correct that the band is in on it. That is 100%. There's a lot of people here who have no idea how the concert industry works. A performer of Pearl Jam's magnitude has say over EVERYTHING when they are on tour. TM or some other organization does not do anything without PJ first approving it. Now as I noted above, it's a matter for negotiation and involves all sorts of variables like the guarantee an act is seeking, etc but ultimately an agreement is made and the ticket prices are approved by the act. There are Platinum Tickets because Pearl Jam agreed to it. End of story.
If they make GA the most, and then 100 Level tier 2, etc....then they are pricing out a bunch of fans. I like they way they did this better, to be honest.
Fair enough. Getting everyone to agree is never going to happen. There will always be a segment of the fan base that bitches no matter what they decide. It is trying to find which option leads to the least amount of bitching. Not easy though.
There will also always be a segment that throws themselves on a proverbial grenade defending whatever happens, too. Pleasing either group isn't the goal. Finding the option that makes the most sense for the business, the band's reputation, and the customer base they are trying to serve is what they need to do. I don't agree that labelling Platinum tickets PJ Premium was the best option, but they didn't ask me.
Once again ticket issues have come up. Why doesn't the ten club just be open and honest about ticketing. Rationale adults can handle the truth. Most posts I read are all speculation or from people "who know how the business works".
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.
I guess. Nothing is stopping the ten club from saying what percentage of tickets they receive for members or are they knowing in on scalped tickets such as "pearl jam premium tickets". It's wierd they don't come out with a statement to clear the air on these type of tickets. Unless they are in on it and making more money themselves.
They cannot disclose that information. It is considered proprietary and a trade secret. Edit: I guess they did disclose that there would be premium tickets, but in a very subtle way. Perhaps approved by TM lawyers.
You think Pearl Jam had the simple fact they stated there would be Platinum Tickets approved by TM lawyers? I mean, come on.
great prices!! buy buy buy!!!!!! Is it my imagination or have different and new seats popped up for way more money that the paltry $900 ones yesterday?
great prices!! buy buy buy!!!!!! Is it my imagination or have different and new seats popped up for way more money that the paltry $900 ones yesterday?
If true, if more expensive tickets showed up, it’s because previous tickets are selling. The algorithm is correcting the market
great prices!! buy buy buy!!!!!! Is it my imagination or have different and new seats popped up for way more money that the paltry $900 ones yesterday?
If true, if more expensive tickets showed up, it’s because previous tickets are selling. The algorithm is correcting the market
great prices!! buy buy buy!!!!!! Is it my imagination or have different and new seats popped up for way more money that the paltry $900 ones yesterday?
If true, if more expensive tickets showed up, it’s because previous tickets are selling. The algorithm is correcting the market
And falsely showing the availability of shows.
Yes this is the problem when people are talking about market price and capitalism is what it is. With TM it’s not exactly correct. They can hold back seats and artificially create demand. That’s not a true free market or indicative of real market value.
great prices!! buy buy buy!!!!!! Is it my imagination or have different and new seats popped up for way more money that the paltry $900 ones yesterday?
If true, if more expensive tickets showed up, it’s because previous tickets are selling. The algorithm is correcting the market
And falsely showing the availability of shows.
Yes this is the problem when people are talking about market price and capitalism is what it is. With TM it’s not exactly correct. They can hold back seats and artificially create demand. That’s not a true free market or indicative of real market value.
Bingo. So much preaching about market value being what someone is willing to pay. Well no shit. However, what someone is willing to pay is determined by availability and these shit bags at TM manipulate the supply side by creating a sense of false scarcity, which in turn creates false demand where people make emotional (sometimes irrational) decisions. Platinum pricing is a joke. Just raise the prices at fixed levels. Rant over.
And I have tickets to all the shows I want to attend, so this isn’t about being upset because of that. It’s principle.
You are missing the point and PJ lost that battle if you recall. The days of fixed prices for the entire event are gone. It is market based pricing through TM now. It is actually quite smart even though it is the fan that loses out. There is nothing "elite" about it. It is a monopoly in motion. The same monopoly is squeezing every artist out there. This has been going on for many years in different forms. It will only get worse until there is competition in the market.
I was under the impression TM doesn't force platinum. Not all artists use it. Most do now, but not all. TM invented platinum as a way to earn more concert revenue which benefits everyone (TM, promoter, band, etc...). But you don't need to use it, but it's going to get you a larger gaurantee from the promoter as it allows them to create more revenue.
I kind of felt like because the recording aspect of the business pays bunk now, that they're figuring out how to make more touring. One of those things was.. how do we dip into what the scalpers make off our tickets.
That's my thoughts. I think it'll continue because everyone gets paid more from it, but I'm not entirely convinced it's mandatory, but I would say it's hard to pass up in a world where you barely get paid to record music.
I believe, without actually knowing, that it is very close to, if not, absolutely mandatory. They do not want to lose a nickel to the resellers and that is what is driving this. Not simply getting more for each show. They want to put stubhub out of business. This is all TM business strategy and modeling. TM withholds the seats from public sale and resellers cannot obtain them at the lower cost. Its that simple. It is not about the band, the fans or anything else. It is about selling tickets at the highest possible market price instead of a fixed pre-determined price.
They do not want to sell a ticket for $200 when someone will pay $600 for the same ticket. TM has very sophisticated and automated algorithms to understand the market prices and the exact timing to raise or lower prices based on demand. It is very smart from a business perspective. Hedge fund strategy being executed by a monopoly where the fan/consumer is the loser.
Edit: Live Nation is the promoter for most TM events. Guess who owns them? TM.
Actually, it's a proven fact that TM/LN encourages resellers, and even has a separate platform where they sell huge blocks of tickets directly to resellers. Which is why you often see entire rows of tickets all listed for resale at the same price. They make money when the tickets are originally purchased at "face value" and then make even more money when those same tickets are resold again on their site at a much higher price.
Maybe I have not been as clear as I could have. The hypocrisy I refer to is this.....in this instance the band and TM are telling us as fans "what's good for me is not good for thee" they can dynamically price their PJ premium seats which, let's call it what it is is SCALPING, is perfectly fine and dandy. We, as fans, cannot even transfer a ticket to a friend coming with us to a show if they are running late, let alone sell it. The persona I refer to that was established over 30 years is the speak truth to power....intolerant of being taken advantage of attitude I believed still existed. We cannot even post a 2 for 1 ticket trade on the board without being chastised. If both parties are happy what is the issue? If I want to buy a PJ Premium ticket and I am happy then what is the issue? No issue in one instance.
I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too.
However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even if it to something or someone you love.
All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans.
I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.
It's not scalping when you're selling your own tickets for the price you want to be selling them at.. lol. Scalping is buying a ticket then flipping it for more. Selling a thing for a specified price, even if expensive, is just selling a thing.
Maybe I have not been as clear as I could have. The hypocrisy I refer to is this.....in this instance the band and TM are telling us as fans "what's good for me is not good for thee" they can dynamically price their PJ premium seats which, let's call it what it is is SCALPING, is perfectly fine and dandy. We, as fans, cannot even transfer a ticket to a friend coming with us to a show if they are running late, let alone sell it. The persona I refer to that was established over 30 years is the speak truth to power....intolerant of being taken advantage of attitude I believed still existed. We cannot even post a 2 for 1 ticket trade on the board without being chastised. If both parties are happy what is the issue? If I want to buy a PJ Premium ticket and I am happy then what is the issue? No issue in one instance.
I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too.
However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even if it to something or someone you love.
All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans.
I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.
It's not scalping when you're selling your own tickets for the price you want to be selling them at.. lol. Scalping is buying a ticket then flipping it for more. Selling a thing for a specified price, even if expensive, is just selling a thing.
Would you consider taking a bunch of refunds from 2020 and then jacking those ticket prices up when the shows are sold again scalping?
Real question is how many fans are being alienated by the shuts outs and platinum sticker shock? If I was a casual fan and logged on to see $5,000 tickets I might not bother next time a tour is announced. Maybe TM doesn’t care if they get their max return each time but you think the band would care.
More than if they had just called them "Platinum"; had they done that, it probably wouldn't have alienated much more than the previous system, where all of these shows would be completely sold out by now and they'd have to go find tickets on the secondary market at similar markups.
It does sadden me that this will probably kill F2F. I loved that system (though I agree, there shouldn't be a floor), and I think fans would have grown to love it.
Post edited by mpedone on
"I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
It is an interesting result of this - I've seen more than a couple
people on FB bitching about not being able to get "good" seats at face
value. Oakland has plenty of seats, but they're not "good". Previous
tours, if tickets were still available this long after the sale started,
people would be snatching them up, regardless of if they were on the
roof, watching the show through an open skylight. They see "good" seats
available, though, and suddenly upper level isn't good enough. Gotta get
that floor seat!
Makes me wonder how many Premium seats they need to sell to offset all of the face value tickets that aren't selling. Between Premium pricing and the "No General Public Sale (just kidding, but we're not going to tell anyone)", it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.
"I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
, it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.
They simply oversaturated the California market and ignored some of their strongest markets. Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.
, it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.
They simply oversaturated the California market and ignored some of their strongest markets. Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.
Yeah, I don't know about those two, but I definitely think the usual cadence of 10 Club > VF > General Public would have moved more tickets to the rescheduled shows than what we're seeing. At the very least, the deflating of the hype when people who didn't get verified hasn't helped.
"I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."
, it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.
They simply oversaturated the California market and ignored some of their strongest markets. Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.
Could simply be about available in arenas in the zone they wanted to play in.
Marquee 91 Wetlands 91 CBGB 91 Roseland 91 and many, many more
It is an interesting result of this - I've seen more than a couple
people on FB bitching about not being able to get "good" seats at face
value. Oakland has plenty of seats, but they're not "good". Previous
tours, if tickets were still available this long after the sale started,
people would be snatching them up, regardless of if they were on the
roof, watching the show through an open skylight. They see "good" seats
available, though, and suddenly upper level isn't good enough. Gotta get
that floor seat!
Makes me wonder how many Premium seats they need to sell to offset all of the face value tickets that aren't selling. Between Premium pricing and the "No General Public Sale (just kidding, but we're not going to tell anyone)", it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.
What is even more hilarious is many people who attempted to become "verified" for California shows....like myself.....would have purchased lesser seats had I been verified initially. Now they are stuck holding the bag. Sad state when the greatest band of all time cannot sell out a 20k person arena...."behind the wall a fat man snores"
Comments
Nuclear fission
Nuclear fission
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I believe, without actually knowing, that it is very close to, if not, absolutely mandatory. They do not want to lose a nickel to the resellers and that is what is driving this. Not simply getting more for each show. They want to put stubhub out of business. This is all TM business strategy and modeling. TM withholds the seats from public sale and resellers cannot obtain them at the lower cost. Its that simple. It is not about the band, the fans or anything else. It is about selling tickets at the highest possible market price instead of a fixed pre-determined price.
They do not want to sell a ticket for $200 when someone will pay $600 for the same ticket. TM has very sophisticated and automated algorithms to understand the market prices and the exact timing to raise or lower prices based on demand. It is very smart from a business perspective. Hedge fund strategy being executed by a monopoly where the fan/consumer is the loser.
Edit: Live Nation is the promoter for most TM events. Guess who owns them? TM.
So while it's not thousands upon thousands, it's not 50-100, and also its the specific seats that used to be verbatim promised to 10 clubbers (floor directly behind pit, and best seats in lower bowl).
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
NDA. Non-disclosure agreement. People have been trying to get visibility into TM for many years. With no luck. I have been saying for a very long time that is probably the only way to fight TM. Full public disclosure. Even then most governments have bigger problems.
I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too.
However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even to something or someone you love.
All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans.
I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.
Cincinnati 2014
Greenville 2016
(Raleigh 2016)
Columbia 2016
They cannot disclose that information. It is considered proprietary and a trade secret.
Edit: I guess they did disclose that there would be premium tickets, but in a very subtle way. Perhaps approved by TM lawyers.
Wetlands 91
CBGB 91
Roseland 91
and many, many more
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22 | Baltimore 09.12.24 | Fenway 1 09.15.24 | Fenway 2 09.17.24
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22 | Baltimore 09.12.24 | Fenway 1 09.15.24 | Fenway 2 09.17.24
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.
Yeah, I don't know about those two, but I definitely think the usual cadence of 10 Club > VF > General Public would have moved more tickets to the rescheduled shows than what we're seeing. At the very least, the deflating of the hype when people who didn't get verified hasn't helped.
Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22 | Baltimore 09.12.24 | Fenway 1 09.15.24 | Fenway 2 09.17.24
"He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
Wetlands 91
CBGB 91
Roseland 91
and many, many more