Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Better is always going to be subjective. I think DMB does it pretty well with their consistent and lengthy U.S. summer tours. They have dynamic pricing as well, but there are so many more shows and opportunities to get regular and reasonably priced tickets. They have also had a multi-year collaboration with the Nature Conservancy.
Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Try reading past my first sentence.
You said you don't know if the band is making more money off PJ Premium. Simply put: They are.
Better is always going to be subjective. I think DMB does it pretty well with their consistent and lengthy U.S. summer tours. They have dynamic pricing as well, but there are so many more shows and opportunities to get regular and reasonably priced tickets. They have also had a multi-year collaboration with the Nature Conservancy.
They also provide Warehouse paper tickets! This is BETTER!
Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Try reading past my first sentence.
You said you don't know if the band is making more money off PJ Premium. Simply put: They are.
I think the answer is probably more complicated than we think. I'm curious as to how this all works. They would of signed the contract with the promoter a few years ago when the tour was scheduled for 2020. That would of included the amount the promoter agrees to pay the band. Significant work would of already been put in by the promoter, ticket agency, band, and grew to get that tour started.
How does this work with Covid related shows? There would of been costs associated with ticketing then postponing the shows. Costs of everything have increased due to inflation. All the tickets were issues at prices that made sense for 2020.
Does the original contract remain in place, did PJ renegotiate so they could get extra revenue to cover the higher touring costs of 2022, and to recoup $$'s lost when they got postponed. Did the promoter agree to that to recoup whatever money they lost in 2020. Are they trying to make things right by their crew that had to get laid off work at the last second.
Most of the tickets seem to be sold at prices that are pretty low for 2022. So maybe the comments were right, the platinum tickets are covering the extra cost of touring in 2022, and recovering the money lost from cancelling the tour last second?
Could be other things too. Maybe tour cancellation insurance premiums have gone up because of covid.
I'm going to stop. I'm just going to say there's a lot of logistics that could make what they said legitimate. I don't know if they apply, but when you start thinking of all the things that would of been impacted with the delay... it starts adding up.
Better is always going to be subjective. I think DMB does it pretty well with their consistent and lengthy U.S. summer tours. They have dynamic pricing as well, but there are so many more shows and opportunities to get regular and reasonably priced tickets. They have also had a multi-year collaboration with the Nature Conservancy.
They also provide Warehouse paper tickets! This is BETTER!
Well, to be fair, I've been to far more dmb shows than I've been to PJ shows, and I've been a WH member twice as long as I've been a 10c member. I'll say, in spite of my current comments here, PJ is still far better than dmb as far as ticketing. Dmb sold out to platinum a few years ago. And 10c still gives better seats (in far greater numbers) than WH does these days. So, in spite of my comments in this thread, and in spite of how disappointed I am in PJ for caving in, I'll still say they're far better than most bands out there in this regard.
Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Try reading past my first sentence.
You said you don't know if the band is making more money off PJ Premium. Simply put: They are.
I think the answer is probably more complicated than we think. I'm curious as to how this all works. They would of signed the contract with the promoter a few years ago when the tour was scheduled for 2020. That would of included the amount the promoter agrees to pay the band. Significant work would of already been put in by the promoter, ticket agency, band, and grew to get that tour started.
How does this work with Covid related shows? There would of been costs associated with ticketing then postponing the shows. Costs of everything have increased due to inflation. All the tickets were issues at prices that made sense for 2020.
Does the original contract remain in place, did PJ renegotiate so they could get extra revenue to cover the higher touring costs of 2022, and to recoup $$'s lost when they got postponed. Did the promoter agree to that to recoup whatever money they lost in 2020. Are they trying to make things right by their crew that had to get laid off work at the last second.
Most of the tickets seem to be sold at prices that are pretty low for 2022. So maybe the comments were right, the platinum tickets are covering the extra cost of touring in 2022, and recovering the money lost from cancelling the tour last second?
Could be other things too. Maybe tour cancellation insurance premiums have gone up because of covid.
I'm going to stop. I'm just going to say there's a lot of logistics that could make what they said legitimate. I don't know if they apply, but when you start thinking of all the things that would of been impacted with the delay... it starts adding up.
Then charge EVERYONE more opposed to the "elite" mentality in PJ Platinum which has been fought so hard against for decades by this band....until they became that themselves.....it is ok...we all wish to be elite......it is the American way....let's just come by it honestly.
It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
The same people who weren't able to secure face value tickets to their targeted show, would have failed with or without platinum tickets. The only reason why these tickets are still available at otherwise sold out shows is because they are so expensive.
The resentment toward ticketmaster in regard to platinum ticket sales is warranted. I just dont see Pearl Jam as the problem, or even a problem, as I don't believe they are contributing to it, or benefitting in any way from platinum ticket sales. They're essentially backed into a corner, as they either have to work with ticketmaster, stop touring, or play shows at small venues that virtually no one would be able to acquire tickets for anyway.
Ticketmaster's business practices are indeed complete bullshit, and a major threat to the future of live music if something isn't done to stop them. They are as close as they can get to having a monopoly over the primary ticketing industry for live events. They've already been caught scalping their own tickets, and now they are essentially doing the same thing in plain site with their platinum ticket offers. Anyone who is trying to excuse it with terms like 'market value', spare me the bullshit. Market value for who?
There are only two criticisms I can make against Pearl Jam in this situation. 1. That they agreed to call the "platinum" tickets "pj premium". And 2. The way in which they suggested that this practice is being employed as a means to limit ticket scalping on the secondary market.
In regard to the second criticism, I suspect the language they used was in an effort to not ruffle any feathers with ticketmaster, who they've had to partner with.
Take MSG and Denver out of the conversation, and Pearl Jam has already created the perfect system to eliminate secondary ticket market price gouging. Non transferable tickets with fan to fan resales. I'd love for anyone who defends platinum tickets to try and explain to me how the practice is benefitting fans at any of the venues outside of CO and NY. It's not. None of the other shows even have a secondary market if you haven't noticed.
And there lies the conflict of interest. Pearl Jam wants to control their ticket costs and make them attainable to their fans. Ticketmaster actively participates and profits from the secondary ticket market. As previously mentioned, Pearl Jam has devised the perfect anti scalping ticketing system. The only way a company like ticketmaster would allow them to put this practice in motion is if they were given 100% of the secondary market profits. That is what has happened here, and its the best Pearl Jam could do.
Pearl Jam was able to acquire a larger portion of seats for their fan club than they have in the past. Seats that would've otherwise been gobbled up by bots and internal partners of ticketmaster, and then resold on the secondary market at inflated prices. The cost of this acquisition to Pearl Jam was to allow ticketmaster to openly price gouge a small percentage of seats themselves via "pj premium". Until if and when someone is able to take down ticketmaster in court, I think this was the right move by PJ, and in the best interest of all of us.
To all of my fellow PJ fans, I urge you not to buy any pj premium tickets until if and when the prices fall in line with the standard ticket costs. Even if you can afford it, out of respect for us all, don't do it. This isn't live saving medicine we're talking about. If people don't buy them, they can't sell them.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
This is the point a lot of ppl keep overlooking. Platinum pricing is something that didn't even really exist until maybe 10 years ago. Prior to that, every band/artist in history successfully toured without it and just charged a fixed price for tickets. Many artists (including some even bigger than PJ) still do. I get that costs associated with touring have increased. But the increase in ticket prices over the years have reflected that. So those of you who are making excuses for and defending PJ for caving in can go try to sell that BS elsewhere. Because I'm not buying it.
Do you believe that Ticketmaster sits there at the negotiation and says "Sure Pearl Jam management, have all these fan club seat allocations, and also, have non-transferable tickets so that bots cant gobble them up, oh, and also, let us run a verified fan for you to limit the market even more to your direct fan base and hopefully not scalpers, AND we are going to do all of this for nothing in return, we will even sell the regular tickets at a cheap cost for all" It is not how that business, or the world, works. Business contracts and about give and take - the business of Pearl Jam takes A LOT for the 10Club, and for the verified fan - the give is ultimately the Premium seats and that system. I mean, they explicitly state as much in their tour announcement. I really don't get what people don't understand about it. And if they werent dealing with Ticketmaster and LiveNation, we wouldn' be seeing them live at all - so please don't argue that.
Do I need to remind you that the vast majority of these were rescheduled shows and the contracts had been negotiated long ago? They didn't need this shit then and they didn't need to cave to it now.
Ugh - Do you think Ticketmaster sat there and said " Hey Pearl Jam management, I know your fans have been sitting on tickets for over two years, but here is what we are going to do. We are going to let you keep all those tickets that were sold at a lower price two years ago, and still hold the show in our venue where prices to put on shows have jumped nearly 20%. And, you know all those fans that turned in tickets - we are going to give all those back to you and let you sell them at a lower cost as well. We don't mind eating it on this one. And, lets do the same with the 4 new shows you have booked - we dont have any need to recoup any losses from the last two years. I really wish we would have written in our contract two years ago some sort of Force Majeure clause." I can guarantee you they had Force Majeure language - contracts from two years ago meant next to nothing when negotiating next steps for the rescheduled shows.
Better is always going to be subjective. I think DMB does it pretty well with their consistent and lengthy U.S. summer tours. They have dynamic pricing as well, but there are so many more shows and opportunities to get regular and reasonably priced tickets. They have also had a multi-year collaboration with the Nature Conservancy.
They also provide Warehouse paper tickets! This is BETTER!
Well, to be fair, I've been to far more dmb shows than I've been to PJ shows, and I've been a WH member twice as long as I've been a 10c member. I'll say, in spite of my current comments here, PJ is still far better than dmb as far as ticketing. Dmb sold out to platinum a few years ago. And 10c still gives better seats (in far greater numbers) than WH does these days. So, in spite of my comments in this thread, and in spite of how disappointed I am in PJ for caving in, I'll still say they're far better than most bands out there in this regard.
See, I think it's too early to say either way. We have such a small sample to go by this tour with only four new shows and two of them destined to wildly undersell. It seemed like something strange happened with 10c tickets at Camden, but again that is only one example. I need to see how this plays over a new, full tour before I'm ready to credit or condemn.
It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
Yes, they are. It's how Live Nation gets bands to agree to it. They divvy up the added revenue with the band, usually through a percentage of net profit from tix sales beyond the flat fee paid for the show/tour. Do you really think PJ would agree to this and just let Ticketmaster and Live Nation (one and the same) reap the only financial benefit? If there were no benefit to the band they wouldn't sign off on it, And be sure, they signed off on it.
Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Try reading past my first sentence.
You said you don't know if the band is making more money off PJ Premium. Simply put: They are.
Maybe you're right, in fact you probably are, but you claimed that I thought they didn't, and I did not say that. I only said I don't know because that's the only truthful thing I could say. I don't know, and neither do you.
People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable
Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
This is the point a lot of ppl keep overlooking. Platinum pricing is something that didn't even really exist until maybe 10 years ago. Prior to that, every band/artist in history successfully toured without it and just charged a fixed price for tickets. Many artists (including some even bigger than PJ) still do. I get that costs associated with touring have increased. But the increase in ticket prices over the years have reflected that. So those of you who are making excuses for and defending PJ for caving in can go try to sell that BS elsewhere. Because I'm not buying it.
Do you believe that Ticketmaster sits there at the negotiation and says "Sure Pearl Jam management, have all these fan club seat allocations, and also, have non-transferable tickets so that bots cant gobble them up, oh, and also, let us run a verified fan for you to limit the market even more to your direct fan base and hopefully not scalpers, AND we are going to do all of this for nothing in return, we will even sell the regular tickets at a cheap cost for all" It is not how that business, or the world, works. Business contracts and about give and take - the business of Pearl Jam takes A LOT for the 10Club, and for the verified fan - the give is ultimately the Premium seats and that system. I mean, they explicitly state as much in their tour announcement. I really don't get what people don't understand about it. And if they werent dealing with Ticketmaster and LiveNation, we wouldn' be seeing them live at all - so please don't argue that.
Do I need to remind you that the vast majority of these were rescheduled shows and the contracts had been negotiated long ago? They didn't need this shit then and they didn't need to cave to it now.
Ugh - Do you think Ticketmaster sat there and said " Hey Pearl Jam management, I know your fans have been sitting on tickets for over two years, but here is what we are going to do. We are going to let you keep all those tickets that were sold at a lower price two years ago, and still hold the show in our venue where prices to put on shows have jumped nearly 20%. And, you know all those fans that turned in tickets - we are going to give all those back to you and let you sell them at a lower cost as well. We don't mind eating it on this one. And, lets do the same with the 4 new shows you have booked - we dont have any need to recoup any losses from the last two years. I really wish we would have written in our contract two years ago some sort of Force Majeure clause." I can guarantee you they had Force Majeure language - contracts from two years ago meant next to nothing when negotiating next steps for the rescheduled shows.
Do you really think that in March 2020, when TM/LN had lost ALL of their business, they really sat down and told Pearl Jam that they'd only let them reschedule their shows if they paid them a shit ton more money?
Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Try reading past my first sentence.
You said you don't know if the band is making more money off PJ Premium. Simply put: They are.
Maybe you're right, in fact you probably are, but you claimed that I thought they didn't, and I did not say that. I only said I don't know because that's the only truthful thing I could say. I don't know, and neither do you.
Sorry for coming across that way. Not my intent. But as I said in my post above this one, the band definitely makes money off platinum tickets, all artists do, unless Pearl Jam decided to be the exception and let Ticketmaster keep all the added profit.
It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
I feel like that's not entirely accurate. TM makes money off the fees they charge. They don't make money off what the ticket is sold for. That goes to the promoter/band. So yes TM makes more money because the fees seem to be on a sliding scale (the more expensive the ticket, the higher the fee). The money for the actual ticket goes to the promoter who pays the band.
The whole point of platinum tickets, is to capture more ticket revenue, which means the promoter can offer a larger guarantee (payment) to the band. Everyone makes more. TM, Promoter, and the band.
I'm not sure if PJ is actually making more in this unique situation, because touring costs are way up, and this might be a fix to cover the difference between 2020 ticket prices and 2022 touring costs. If it were a non-deferred tour, and they were charging platinum, they would most definitely would be benefiting from it, via a larger guarantee from the promoter, as the promoter can make more money selling tickets.
Overall though, TM isn't keeping all that extra revenue from tickets being sold at higher prices. Their benefit is the larger fees charged on the platinum tickets, not higher ticket prices themselves.
It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
I feel like that's not entirely accurate. TM makes money off the fees they charge. They don't make money off what the ticket is sold for. That goes to the promoter/band.
But keep in my mind that the promoter in the case of this tour and the vast majority of tours in NA currently is Live Nation, who is the parent company of...you guessed it....Ticketmaster. They are 2 sides of the same coin.
It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
Yes, they are. It's how Live Nation gets bands to agree to it. They divvy up the added revenue with the band, usually through a percentage of net profit from tix sales beyond the flat fee paid for the show/tour. Do you really think PJ would agree to this and just let Ticketmaster and Live Nation (one and the same) reap the only financial benefit? If there were no benefit to the band they wouldn't sign off on it, And be sure, they signed off on it.
If you read my whole post, I did mention the benefit in signing off on this. I just suspect that the benefit doesn't equate to more cash in the bank accounts of Eddie Vedder and co.
You're suggesting it does, and perhaps it's possible you are right. Based on my knowledge of how ticketmaster operates as a business however, I highly doubt that is the case. Can you prove the band is receiving extra revenue from inflated platinum ticket sales? Do you know this for a fact?
I suspect that the benefit to Pearl Jam in allowing platinum tickets is that it was the only way to get ticketmaster to agree to a larger allotment of fanclub tickets, in addition to the terms of the non transferable/fan to fan exchange policy. A policy which directly prevents ticketmaster from profiting off of secondary ticket sales.
Ticketmaster is using platinum prices to make up for lost revenue they would've received via their participation in the secondary market. Why do you think they would share added profits from their price gouging practice with the artists? That goes against everything ticketmaster is as a company.
For the folks that are dialed in on the band making money on the premium seats...they do. But....why shouldn't they? I would love a legitimate and valid reason as to why they shouldn't. I'll again ask the people that answer to consider the following: 10c club ticket allotments, their push for fan 2 fan and no transferable tickets to protect that face value and prevent wide spread re-sale, and decades of tours where the face value on their tickets was below market value for most comparable acts. So far the only argument I've heard is "that's not how it used to be" and "I don't think any tickets should cost that much" both of which are fine as opinions but meritless as legitimate or valid reasons as to why this or any band shouldn't be paid their market value for their work. I know, I know....but in 1994 they ook on Ticketbastard! They've spent 2 decades plus doing what they could do. They've made their contribution. Let Drake and Machine Gun Kelly take up the fight and sell tickets for $30 for a few years to pick up the slack.
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Better is always going to be subjective. I think DMB does it pretty well with their consistent and lengthy U.S. summer tours. They have dynamic pricing as well, but there are so many more shows and opportunities to get regular and reasonably priced tickets. They have also had a multi-year collaboration with the Nature Conservancy.
They also provide Warehouse paper tickets! This is BETTER!
Well, to be fair, I've been to far more dmb shows than I've been to PJ shows, and I've been a WH member twice as long as I've been a 10c member. I'll say, in spite of my current comments here, PJ is still far better than dmb as far as ticketing. Dmb sold out to platinum a few years ago. And 10c still gives better seats (in far greater numbers) than WH does these days. So, in spite of my comments in this thread, and in spite of how disappointed I am in PJ for caving in, I'll still say they're far better than most bands out there in this regard.
See, I think it's too early to say either way. We have such a small sample to go by this tour with only four new shows and two of them destined to wildly undersell. It seemed like something strange happened with 10c tickets at Camden, but again that is only one example. I need to see how this plays over a new, full tour before I'm ready to credit or condemn.
This is true. Camden has me wondering. I guess we'll see...
For the folks that are dialed in on the band making money on the premium seats...they do. But....why shouldn't they? I would love a legitimate and valid reason as to why they shouldn't. I'll again ask the people that answer to consider the following: 10c club ticket allotments, their push for fan 2 fan and no transferable tickets to protect that face value and prevent wide spread re-sale, and decades of tours where the face value on their tickets was below market value for most comparable acts. So far the only argument I've heard is "that's not how it used to be" and "I don't think any tickets should cost that much" both of which are fine as opinions but meritless as legitimate or valid reasons as to why this or any band shouldn't be paid their market value for their work. I know, I know....but in 1994 they ook on Ticketbastard! They've spent 2 decades plus doing what they could do. They've made their contribution. Let Drake and Machine Gun Kelly take up the fight and sell tickets for $30 for a few years to pick up the slack.
If for one second you think the non-transferrable tickets were such the focus, I am sorry. The focus was/is a way for them and TM to make more money. Their opportunity.....but If they cared about not having scalpers make money and being so against various laws they would refrain from playing those states such as NY or CO..apparently they do not like laws mandating individuals use a bathroom based on their birth sex enough to not play NC (which I agree with BTW).....
It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
Yes, they are. It's how Live Nation gets bands to agree to it. They divvy up the added revenue with the band, usually through a percentage of net profit from tix sales beyond the flat fee paid for the show/tour. Do you really think PJ would agree to this and just let Ticketmaster and Live Nation (one and the same) reap the only financial benefit? If there were no benefit to the band they wouldn't sign off on it, And be sure, they signed off on it.
You're suggesting it does, and perhaps it's possible you are right. Based on my knowledge of how ticketmaster operates as a business however, I highly doubt that is the case. Can you prove the band is receiving extra revenue from inflated platinum ticket sales? Do you know this for a fact?
Obviously I do not have access to whatever contract was signed. I do have some institutional knowledge from a close friend who until the pandemic was on the ticket selling side of things and we have talked about the whole dynamic pricing/platinum tickets thing in the past. Traditionally the added profit for these is divided between Live Nation and artist in whatever fashion is agreed to. Usually in the form of artist receiving a flat fee for the tour plus a percentage of all ticket revenue beyond a certain point. So Live Nation assumes risk if a tour tanks (see the Black Crowes recent tour for an example where LN probably took a bath). With PJ, as long as they avoid dog markets like Fresno (who thought that was a good idea?), there is no risk of not exceeding that mark. So, unless PJ agreed to something different (certainly possible, but unlikely), they will share in financial benefit from PJ Premium tickets.
Your periodic reminder that calling it PJ Premium was dumb.
Yes. I imagine the reaction would have been much different if they were called what they are, Ticketmaster Platinum.
I think reaction would have been largely the same, but it would have been clearer to some people what they were and why they were being sold. I would love to hear the backstory on how they decided PJ Premium was the way to go, though.
Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Try reading past my first sentence.
You said you don't know if the band is making more money off PJ Premium. Simply put: They are.
Maybe you're right, in fact you probably are, but you claimed that I thought they didn't, and I did not say that. I only said I don't know because that's the only truthful thing I could say. I don't know, and neither do you.
Sorry for coming across that way. Not my intent. But as I said in my post above this one, the band definitely makes money off platinum tickets, all artists do, unless Pearl Jam decided to be the exception and let Ticketmaster keep all the added profit.
Yes, of course, on each individual platinum ticket they make more money than off of a face value ticket. But the question is, do they make more money overall? If the money they make on platinum tickets is to offset not making as much on the rest of the face value tickets, as they told us from the beginning, it's possible they don't make any more. It's never that simple though.
Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.
Of course it is obvious. Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though. That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money. And that's fine. Just call it what it is.
It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.
So, you think Pearl jam is making no extra scratch off PJ Premium tickets? Want to buy this bridge I own in Brooklyn?
Try reading past my first sentence.
You said you don't know if the band is making more money off PJ Premium. Simply put: They are.
Maybe you're right, in fact you probably are, but you claimed that I thought they didn't, and I did not say that. I only said I don't know because that's the only truthful thing I could say. I don't know, and neither do you.
Sorry for coming across that way. Not my intent. But as I said in my post above this one, the band definitely makes money off platinum tickets, all artists do, unless Pearl Jam decided to be the exception and let Ticketmaster keep all the added profit.
Yes, of course, on each individual platinum ticket they make more money than off of a face value ticket. But the question is, do they make more money overall? If the money they make on platinum tickets is to offset not making as much on the rest of the face value tickets, as they told us from the beginning, it's possible they don't make any more. It's never that simple though.
Possibly true. But when tickets pop up at $5,000 each it's a bad look. Just bump every ticket on the tour a reasonable amount ($10, $20 whatever makes the numbers work), keep restricting resale by using mobile tickets with only F2F transfer (I know MSG and Denver would be an issue but all other shows you basically quash most of the secondary market), and it doesn't come across like you are gouging fans. Especially this band and all they said in the past about ticket prices and Ticketmaster. Just a very bad look in my insignificant opinion.
Yeah, issuing fully transferable Ten Club tickets couldn't possibly lead to any undesirable unintended consequences
No one is suggesting fully transferable Ten Club tix. What was said above is, if you're gonna charge me $2,000.00 per ticket, make it transferable.
EXACTLY this. Once I buy something it is mine and I should be able to do with it as I wish. Anytime I hear someone complaining about scalping whether it be merch or tickets I say to them....sell me your house for exactly what you paid then......they shut up real quick. Tickets like anything are a commodity. What teams....bands....events.....fail to realize by controlling the secondary market on goods you are only hurting yourself. I can list tons of examples of negative repercussions to attempting to controlling the market around you. These events at certain prices need a market for people to buy and sell or else they simply wont get sold. The Cali shows are a great example.
Actually, they are not commodities, they are revocable licenses. But that is splitting hairs. There are a bunch of very intelligent comments in this thread that are spot on. From lawyers, people in the business and others with great insight. Why do so many people think this band, after 30 years of fighting for 10C tickets, has suddenly stopped caring about getting as many tickets as possible in the hands of the 10C at "reasonable" prices? I do not believe that for a second. It is part of their identity as musicians. IMHO, as an aside, the monetization of Pearl Jam began for real in 2006. They are evolving as the industry evolves, and yes, it is not in our favor.
$300 tickets are more and more common. Sucks, yes, but some of the comments remind me of my grandfather, "I remember when gas a nickel a gallon." TM is the devil in this equation. But the reality is that if you did not see these $1,000 tickets on TM, they would be on Stub Hub. or some other site, not in the hands of fans. Believe it or not, what we saw this week puts that money in the band's pocket instead of some other "reseller." I am ok with that. What really stinks is that it also diverts cash to TM, and premium tickets are actually being sold at market prices rather than a fixed price. That is the real killer for fans of popular artists. The band simply does not have a lot of options if they want to play live in major cities, and it has only gotten worse since 94. Rant over
It seems to me that the majority of people who are getting bent out of shape over the pj premium (platinum) tickets being sold, are misplacing their frustration...which should be directed solely toward ticketmaster. No one in the band is making extra money from platinum ticket sales. Ticketmaster is, and it's the cost of being forced to do business with them.
I feel like that's not entirely accurate. TM makes money off the fees they charge. They don't make money off what the ticket is sold for. That goes to the promoter/band.
But keep in my mind that the promoter in the case of this tour and the vast majority of tours in NA currently is Live Nation, who is the parent company of...you guessed it....Ticketmaster. They are 2 sides of the same coin.
Definitely.. but it doesn't negative the point. When bands (under most circumstances) use platinum tickets all 3 entities benefit. TM/Promoter/Band.
Yeah, issuing fully transferable Ten Club tickets couldn't possibly lead to any undesirable unintended consequences
No one is suggesting fully transferable Ten Club tix. What was said above is, if you're gonna charge me $2,000.00 per ticket, make it transferable.
EXACTLY this. Once I buy something it is mine and I should be able to do with it as I wish. Anytime I hear someone complaining about scalping whether it be merch or tickets I say to them....sell me your house for exactly what you paid then......they shut up real quick. Tickets like anything are a commodity. What teams....bands....events.....fail to realize by controlling the secondary market on goods you are only hurting yourself. I can list tons of examples of negative repercussions to attempting to controlling the market around you. These events at certain prices need a market for people to buy and sell or else they simply wont get sold. The Cali shows are a great example.
$300 tickets are more and more common. Sucks, yes, but some of the comments remind me of my grandfather, "I remember when gas a nickel a gallon."
It's a joke, bud. But probably in the not too distant future, this will be the reality for PJ tickets.
We'll see. I would argue this tour is a unique case with the rescheduled shows and new shows mixed in. Basically, I'm withholding judgement until we see what happens with a full tour that's not cobbled together from the scraps of a previous tour attempt and after a 2-year industry-wide layover.
As much as I'd like to agree with this, I don't. Platinum pricing / dynamic pricing is now part of TM's business model, and is earning them record profits.
I was looking at presale tickets for Tears for Fears a few months ago. I wanted to be close, and was shocked to see they were anywhere from $600-$800 and more for the front sections. I kept watching, and the prices kept changing, up $50, down $100, up $125 etc. It was frustrating, yet fascinating. I ended up sayin no way, not gonna pay those prices.
I'm a fan of The National, and they just announced their summer tour dates, some of them are rescheduled in same cities, but many are new places. I suspect that is because booking venues has gotten much more difficult these days, every band wants to book their tour, there are only so many available dates.
I joined their fan club within minutes of them announcing it, and one of the perks is presale tix. (They also send out a live vinyl album as a yearly gift which is more than worth the annual membership fee) I picked up my presale tix yesterday for a handful of shows - they keep GA's in the $50-$70 range, and reserved seats at about $90 or so. I saw today that since that the presale is done, there are sales on TM. They are playing an amphitheatre in Indianapolis, and fanclub tix for the front center orch section in row 5 were $90 all in with fees. Today, seats in that same section / row were offered as platinum, and are $290 plus fees. TM is a scourge. This platinum / dynamic crap has to stop.
Comments
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Simply put: They are.
How does this work with Covid related shows? There would of been costs associated with ticketing then postponing the shows. Costs of everything have increased due to inflation. All the tickets were issues at prices that made sense for 2020.
Does the original contract remain in place, did PJ renegotiate so they could get extra revenue to cover the higher touring costs of 2022, and to recoup $$'s lost when they got postponed. Did the promoter agree to that to recoup whatever money they lost in 2020. Are they trying to make things right by their crew that had to get laid off work at the last second.
Most of the tickets seem to be sold at prices that are pretty low for 2022. So maybe the comments were right, the platinum tickets are covering the extra cost of touring in 2022, and recovering the money lost from cancelling the tour last second?
Could be other things too. Maybe tour cancellation insurance premiums have gone up because of covid.
I'm going to stop. I'm just going to say there's a lot of logistics that could make what they said legitimate. I don't know if they apply, but when you start thinking of all the things that would of been impacted with the delay... it starts adding up.
The same people who weren't able to secure face value tickets to their targeted show, would have failed with or without platinum tickets. The only reason why these tickets are still available at otherwise sold out shows is because they are so expensive.
The resentment toward ticketmaster in regard to platinum ticket sales is warranted. I just dont see Pearl Jam as the problem, or even a problem, as I don't believe they are contributing to it, or benefitting in any way from platinum ticket sales. They're essentially backed into a corner, as they either have to work with ticketmaster, stop touring, or play shows at small venues that virtually no one would be able to acquire tickets for anyway.
Ticketmaster's business practices are indeed complete bullshit, and a major threat to the future of live music if something isn't done to stop them. They are as close as they can get to having a monopoly over the primary ticketing industry for live events. They've already been caught scalping their own tickets, and now they are essentially doing the same thing in plain site with their platinum ticket offers. Anyone who is trying to excuse it with terms like 'market value', spare me the bullshit. Market value for who?
There are only two criticisms I can make against Pearl Jam in this situation. 1. That they agreed to call the "platinum" tickets "pj premium". And 2. The way in which they suggested that this practice is being employed as a means to limit ticket scalping on the secondary market.
In regard to the second criticism, I suspect the language they used was in an effort to not ruffle any feathers with ticketmaster, who they've had to partner with.
Take MSG and Denver out of the conversation, and Pearl Jam has already created the perfect system to eliminate secondary ticket market price gouging. Non transferable tickets with fan to fan resales. I'd love for anyone who defends platinum tickets to try and explain to me how the practice is benefitting fans at any of the venues outside of CO and NY. It's not. None of the other shows even have a secondary market if you haven't noticed.
And there lies the conflict of interest. Pearl Jam wants to control their ticket costs and make them attainable to their fans. Ticketmaster actively participates and profits from the secondary ticket market. As previously mentioned, Pearl Jam has devised the perfect anti scalping ticketing system. The only way a company like ticketmaster would allow them to put this practice in motion is if they were given 100% of the secondary market profits. That is what has happened here, and its the best Pearl Jam could do.
Pearl Jam was able to acquire a larger portion of seats for their fan club than they have in the past. Seats that would've otherwise been gobbled up by bots and internal partners of ticketmaster, and then resold on the secondary market at inflated prices. The cost of this acquisition to Pearl Jam was to allow ticketmaster to openly price gouge a small percentage of seats themselves via "pj premium". Until if and when someone is able to take down ticketmaster in court, I think this was the right move by PJ, and in the best interest of all of us.
To all of my fellow PJ fans, I urge you not to buy any pj premium tickets until if and when the prices fall in line with the standard ticket costs. Even if you can afford it, out of respect for us all, don't do it. This isn't live saving medicine we're talking about. If people don't buy them, they can't sell them.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
It's how Live Nation gets bands to agree to it. They divvy up the added revenue with the band, usually through a percentage of net profit from tix sales beyond the flat fee paid for the show/tour.
Do you really think PJ would agree to this and just let Ticketmaster and Live Nation (one and the same) reap the only financial benefit?
If there were no benefit to the band they wouldn't sign off on it, And be sure, they signed off on it.
But as I said in my post above this one, the band definitely makes money off platinum tickets, all artists do, unless Pearl Jam decided to be the exception and let Ticketmaster keep all the added profit.
The whole point of platinum tickets, is to capture more ticket revenue, which means the promoter can offer a larger guarantee (payment) to the band. Everyone makes more. TM, Promoter, and the band.
I'm not sure if PJ is actually making more in this unique situation, because touring costs are way up, and this might be a fix to cover the difference between 2020 ticket prices and 2022 touring costs. If it were a non-deferred tour, and they were charging platinum, they would most definitely would be benefiting from it, via a larger guarantee from the promoter, as the promoter can make more money selling tickets.
Overall though, TM isn't keeping all that extra revenue from tickets being sold at higher prices. Their benefit is the larger fees charged on the platinum tickets, not higher ticket prices themselves.
They are 2 sides of the same coin.
You're suggesting it does, and perhaps it's possible you are right. Based on my knowledge of how ticketmaster operates as a business however, I highly doubt that is the case. Can you prove the band is receiving extra revenue from inflated platinum ticket sales? Do you know this for a fact?
I suspect that the benefit to Pearl Jam in allowing platinum tickets is that it was the only way to get ticketmaster to agree to a larger allotment of fanclub tickets, in addition to the terms of the non transferable/fan to fan exchange policy. A policy which directly prevents ticketmaster from profiting off of secondary ticket sales.
Ticketmaster is using platinum prices to make up for lost revenue they would've received via their participation in the secondary market. Why do you think they would share added profits from their price gouging practice with the artists? That goes against everything ticketmaster is as a company.
1996 - Toronto
1998 - Barrie
2000 - Toronto
2003 - Buffalo, Toronto
2005 - Hamilton, Toronto
2006 - Toronto I, Toronto II
2008 - EV solo Toronto I
2010 - Buffalo, Newark
2011 - Toronto I, Toronto II, Hamilton
2013 - London, Chicago, Buffalo, Brooklyn I, Brooklyn II, Philadelphia I, Philadelphia II
2014 - Detroit
2016 - Philadelphia I, Philadelphia II, New York I, New York II, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II, Chicago I, Chicago II
2018 - Boston I, Boston II
I do have some institutional knowledge from a close friend who until the pandemic was on the ticket selling side of things and we have talked about the whole dynamic pricing/platinum tickets thing in the past. Traditionally the added profit for these is divided between Live Nation and artist in whatever fashion is agreed to. Usually in the form of artist receiving a flat fee for the tour plus a percentage of all ticket revenue beyond a certain point. So Live Nation assumes risk if a tour tanks (see the Black Crowes recent tour for an example where LN probably took a bath).
With PJ, as long as they avoid dog markets like Fresno (who thought that was a good idea?), there is no risk of not exceeding that mark. So, unless PJ agreed to something different (certainly possible, but unlikely), they will share in financial benefit from PJ Premium tickets.
Just bump every ticket on the tour a reasonable amount ($10, $20 whatever makes the numbers work), keep restricting resale by using mobile tickets with only F2F transfer (I know MSG and Denver would be an issue but all other shows you basically quash most of the secondary market), and it doesn't come across like you are gouging fans. Especially this band and all they said in the past about ticket prices and Ticketmaster.
Just a very bad look in my insignificant opinion.
Actually, they are not commodities, they are revocable licenses. But that is splitting hairs. There are a bunch of very intelligent comments in this thread that are spot on. From lawyers, people in the business and others with great insight. Why do so many people think this band, after 30 years of fighting for 10C tickets, has suddenly stopped caring about getting as many tickets as possible in the hands of the 10C at "reasonable" prices? I do not believe that for a second. It is part of their identity as musicians. IMHO, as an aside, the monetization of Pearl Jam began for real in 2006. They are evolving as the industry evolves, and yes, it is not in our favor.
$300 tickets are more and more common. Sucks, yes, but some of the comments remind me of my grandfather, "I remember when gas a nickel a gallon." TM is the devil in this equation. But the reality is that if you did not see these $1,000 tickets on TM, they would be on Stub Hub. or some other site, not in the hands of fans. Believe it or not, what we saw this week puts that money in the band's pocket instead of some other "reseller." I am ok with that. What really stinks is that it also diverts cash to TM, and premium tickets are actually being sold at market prices rather than a fixed price. That is the real killer for fans of popular artists. The band simply does not have a lot of options if they want to play live in major cities, and it has only gotten worse since 94. Rant over
I was looking at presale tickets for Tears for Fears a few months ago. I wanted to be close, and was shocked to see they were anywhere from $600-$800 and more for the front sections. I kept watching, and the prices kept changing, up $50, down $100, up $125 etc. It was frustrating, yet fascinating. I ended up sayin no way, not gonna pay those prices.
I'm a fan of The National, and they just announced their summer tour dates, some of them are rescheduled in same cities, but many are new places. I suspect that is because booking venues has gotten much more difficult these days, every band wants to book their tour, there are only so many available dates.
I joined their fan club within minutes of them announcing it, and one of the perks is presale tix. (They also send out a live vinyl album as a yearly gift which is more than worth the annual membership fee) I picked up my presale tix yesterday for a handful of shows - they keep GA's in the $50-$70 range, and reserved seats at about $90 or so. I saw today that since that the presale is done, there are sales on TM. They are playing an amphitheatre in Indianapolis, and fanclub tix for the front center orch section in row 5 were $90 all in with fees. Today, seats in that same section / row were offered as platinum, and are $290 plus fees. TM is a scourge. This platinum / dynamic crap has to stop.