The elephant in the room....Covid and these Pearl Jam shows
Comments
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I’m only asking about the use of the word “confirmed”.JH6056 said:
Seems to me that if most people have a daily/weekly routine they've been doing throughout pandemic, and they've not gotten Covid, and then the 1 thing they do differently one time is last weekend they attend a music festival with 35,000 people at it, 99% unmasked, hopefully vast majority truly vaxxed or truly negative... and then the timing of the symptoms onset is about right for Delta... then really, why would you assume or think it likely that you did NOT get it there? It is the one big different thing that was done, and especially if you were in the crowd holding a spot for PJ, you could be around strangers for hours. Ocean breeze and all, it's still close proximity and if someone else has it, especially Delta V, that is a very likely scenario for transmission.on2legs said:
No, it's not "certain" where they got it.
And most importantly, it's still HIGHLY UNLIKELY it will happen among majority vaxxed people. For those going to Ohana, California is doing way better than NJ on vaxxing and the crowd that will want to be at Ohana is so much more likely to be vaxxed so... I felt good about being at SHN and I'd feel even better about going to Ohana if I was going. But it also isn't surprising at all that it may have happened to a few people.And I get what you’re saying about people’s routines but millions of people have gotten covid. And it’s not from just going to a concert. They have contracted it going about their daily routines.1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park 2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh 20 -
So you have already ruled out the grocery store, uber, airplane travel, the gas station, and their mothers cousin who went to jazzercise 4 days before the show and got covid then went to visit the family. Seems legit.nicknyr15 said:So that’s two confirmed cases from SHN. Just on these boards. Crazy. Wish both a speedy recovery
You can't get tested every day after every single activity, it is impossible to know. You could say it was probably from SHN but hard to confirm it.0 -
Seems like nitpicking to me. By confirmed I mean they’re test came back positive. Confirming they have the virus. Not sure what difference it makes.on2legs said:Post edited by nicknyr15 on0 -
The difference is that out of any subset of 35,000 random people, that a small number of them would be diagnosed with COVID the following week is guaranteed. That would be the case even if they didn’t attend a music festival. So there is no way of knowing whether they caught it at SHN. Now if suddenly there are 2000 cases traced to the festival (which I attended), that would be a much different story.nicknyr15 said:
Seems like nitpicking to me. By confirmed I mean they’re test came back positive. Confirming they have the virus. Not sure what difference it makes.on2legs said:0 -
I understand. Even though all those people were fully vaccinated right? I just think people are over reacting to my original post. Like it’s offending them in some weird way.Luckytwn1 said:
The difference is that out of any subset of 35,000 random people, that a small number of them would be diagnosed with COVID the following week is guaranteed. That would be the case even if they didn’t attend a music festival. So there is no way of knowing whether they caught it at SHN. Now if suddenly there are 2000 cases traced to the festival (which I attended), that would be a much different story.nicknyr15 said:
Seems like nitpicking to me. By confirmed I mean they’re test came back positive. Confirming they have the virus. Not sure what difference it makes.on2legs said:
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The locality of a PJ show is irrelevant as tons of people are traveling to these shows.JH6056 said:
For those going to Ohana, California is doing way better than NJ on vaxxing and the crowd that will want to be at Ohana is so much more likely to be vaxxed so... I felt good about being at SHN and I'd feel even better about going to Ohana if I was going. But it also isn't surprising at all that it may have happened to a few people.on2legs said:
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '220 -
I just feel like we shouldn’t say things like “So that’s two confirmed cases from SHN.” Which is what you posted. It’s untrue and misleading. I see you’re saying now that’s not what you intended to say but I feel like we’ve had so much misinformation about this virus that it’s important not to generalize or assume. And I’m not a denier or anti-vaxxer. I’m as careful as the next person - fully vaccinated and I still wear a mask indoors when I go out anywhere.nicknyr15 said:
I understand. Even though all those people were fully vaccinated right? I just think people are over reacting to my original post. Like it’s offending them in some weird way.Luckytwn1 said:
The difference is that out of any subset of 35,000 random people, that a small number of them would be diagnosed with COVID the following week is guaranteed. That would be the case even if they didn’t attend a music festival. So there is no way of knowing whether they caught it at SHN. Now if suddenly there are 2000 cases traced to the festival (which I attended), that would be a much different story.nicknyr15 said:
Seems like nitpicking to me. By confirmed I mean they’re test came back positive. Confirming they have the virus. Not sure what difference it makes.on2legs said:1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park 2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh 20 -
Ok.on2legs said:
I just feel like we shouldn’t say things like “So that’s two confirmed cases from SHN.” Which is what you posted. It’s untrue and misleading. I see you’re saying now that’s not what you intended to say but I feel like we’ve had so much misinformation about this virus that it’s important not to generalize or assume. And I’m not a denier or anti-vaxxer. I’m as careful as the next person - fully vaccinated and I still wear a mask indoors when I go out anywhere.nicknyr15 said:
I understand. Even though all those people were fully vaccinated right? I just think people are over reacting to my original post. Like it’s offending them in some weird way.Luckytwn1 said:
The difference is that out of any subset of 35,000 random people, that a small number of them would be diagnosed with COVID the following week is guaranteed. That would be the case even if they didn’t attend a music festival. So there is no way of knowing whether they caught it at SHN. Now if suddenly there are 2000 cases traced to the festival (which I attended), that would be a much different story.nicknyr15 said:
Seems like nitpicking to me. By confirmed I mean they’re test came back positive. Confirming they have the virus. Not sure what difference it makes.on2legs said:Two people felt fine. Went to SHN. Felt sick. Got tested. Tested positive for covid. Don’t know when where who or how they contracted it. Hope they make a speedy recovery.Better ?0 -
Much. 👍🏻nicknyr15 said:
Ok.on2legs said:
I just feel like we shouldn’t say things like “So that’s two confirmed cases from SHN.” Which is what you posted. It’s untrue and misleading. I see you’re saying now that’s not what you intended to say but I feel like we’ve had so much misinformation about this virus that it’s important not to generalize or assume. And I’m not a denier or anti-vaxxer. I’m as careful as the next person - fully vaccinated and I still wear a mask indoors when I go out anywhere.nicknyr15 said:
I understand. Even though all those people were fully vaccinated right? I just think people are over reacting to my original post. Like it’s offending them in some weird way.Luckytwn1 said:
The difference is that out of any subset of 35,000 random people, that a small number of them would be diagnosed with COVID the following week is guaranteed. That would be the case even if they didn’t attend a music festival. So there is no way of knowing whether they caught it at SHN. Now if suddenly there are 2000 cases traced to the festival (which I attended), that would be a much different story.nicknyr15 said:
Seems like nitpicking to me. By confirmed I mean they’re test came back positive. Confirming they have the virus. Not sure what difference it makes.on2legs said:Two people felt fine. Went to SHN. Felt sick. Got tested. Tested positive for covid. Don’t know when where who or how they contracted it. Hope they make a speedy recovery.Better ?1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park 2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh 20 -
Thanks! Haha. No hard feelings.on2legs said:
Much. 👍🏻nicknyr15 said:
Ok.on2legs said:
I just feel like we shouldn’t say things like “So that’s two confirmed cases from SHN.” Which is what you posted. It’s untrue and misleading. I see you’re saying now that’s not what you intended to say but I feel like we’ve had so much misinformation about this virus that it’s important not to generalize or assume. And I’m not a denier or anti-vaxxer. I’m as careful as the next person - fully vaccinated and I still wear a mask indoors when I go out anywhere.nicknyr15 said:
I understand. Even though all those people were fully vaccinated right? I just think people are over reacting to my original post. Like it’s offending them in some weird way.Luckytwn1 said:
The difference is that out of any subset of 35,000 random people, that a small number of them would be diagnosed with COVID the following week is guaranteed. That would be the case even if they didn’t attend a music festival. So there is no way of knowing whether they caught it at SHN. Now if suddenly there are 2000 cases traced to the festival (which I attended), that would be a much different story.nicknyr15 said:
Seems like nitpicking to me. By confirmed I mean they’re test came back positive. Confirming they have the virus. Not sure what difference it makes.on2legs said:Two people felt fine. Went to SHN. Felt sick. Got tested. Tested positive for covid. Don’t know when where who or how they contracted it. Hope they make a speedy recovery.Better ?0 -
Tone is difficult to convey…. Apologies if it sounded like I had a pitchfork in my hand. Peace!nicknyr15 said:
Thanks! Haha. No hard feelings.on2legs said:
Much. 👍🏻nicknyr15 said:
Ok.on2legs said:
I just feel like we shouldn’t say things like “So that’s two confirmed cases from SHN.” Which is what you posted. It’s untrue and misleading. I see you’re saying now that’s not what you intended to say but I feel like we’ve had so much misinformation about this virus that it’s important not to generalize or assume. And I’m not a denier or anti-vaxxer. I’m as careful as the next person - fully vaccinated and I still wear a mask indoors when I go out anywhere.nicknyr15 said:
I understand. Even though all those people were fully vaccinated right? I just think people are over reacting to my original post. Like it’s offending them in some weird way.Luckytwn1 said:
The difference is that out of any subset of 35,000 random people, that a small number of them would be diagnosed with COVID the following week is guaranteed. That would be the case even if they didn’t attend a music festival. So there is no way of knowing whether they caught it at SHN. Now if suddenly there are 2000 cases traced to the festival (which I attended), that would be a much different story.nicknyr15 said:
Seems like nitpicking to me. By confirmed I mean they’re test came back positive. Confirming they have the virus. Not sure what difference it makes.on2legs said:Two people felt fine. Went to SHN. Felt sick. Got tested. Tested positive for covid. Don’t know when where who or how they contracted it. Hope they make a speedy recovery.Better ?
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 (#25) | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park 2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh 20 -
I absolutely and completely disagree about the location being irrelevant. I've seen PJ all over the country, maybe you have too, and if you're saying New York show audiences basically have the same people as California shows which to you look the same as Seattle shows which look the same as Texas shows... I'd say you're not really paying attention. There are such visible and sometimes audible (accents depending on where you are) differences in locales of PJ shows and who is in the audience.OceansJenny said:
The locality of a PJ show is irrelevant as tons of people are traveling to these shows.JH6056 said:
For those going to Ohana, California is doing way better than NJ on vaxxing and the crowd that will want to be at Ohana is so much more likely to be vaxxed so... I felt good about being at SHN and I'd feel even better about going to Ohana if I was going. But it also isn't surprising at all that it may have happened to a few people.on2legs said:
Do PJ fans travel a manic amount to shows? Absolutely.
At any given show or festival where PJ is headlining are there likely to be a higher % of out of town and even out of country attendees than most bands? Absolutely again.
But were New Jersey attendees somehow in the minority compared to people from out of the tri-state area at SHN? And let's remember California has what, 1/7 of the entire US population in one state? So are you really saying the rough geographic diversity at SHN and Ohana will be the same because most people travel from out of the area to go?
Location is totally relevant to who makes up the audience.
Also, if location was irrelevant for festival Covid safety, tours and festivals wouldn't be cancelling in high Covid hotspots like Texas and South Carolina now. If your theory that most people come in from out of town anyway holds, why cancel it if most people would not be from the hotspot? Also, for festival staff the location matters completely. Local crew, staff and volunteers at festivals (not the bands' crews but the crews who set up, do security, tear down, and work the festival) are usually mostly local.
There were SO MANY LOCALS at SHN. It was largely a Jersey crowd, sure people came from all over but New Jersey REPRESENTED in a big big way. I was born there and could hear it all around me.
Also, it's still the pandemic. People simply are not flying or training or bus-ing around to festivals like they might have pre-Covid for a show like this, so there's that too. But I'm social, I talk to strangers a lot, and I overwhelmingly met folks from at least the Tri-State area but mostly from NJ at SHN.
I won't be at Ohana but having been to Outside Lands, Coachella, Austin City Limits, Governor's Ball, and Sea Hear Now I can tell you there is ALWAYS a higher % of local area folks than any other particular locale and for some festivals it's overwhelmingly local.
Post edited by JH6056 on0 -
I was saying for PJ shows specifically. Especially this year with only SHN and Ohana being the only shows I would expect a lot of travelers.DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '220
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Cool, but per all I already wrote, there will be a huge difference in who is attending between SHN and Ohana in terms of NJ vs. CA residents. So the vax rates and attitude towards masks and safety and all does matter and it does affect the overall likelihood or lack of it that there are people standing around in that huge audience who are positive for Covid.OceansJenny said:I was saying for PJ shows specifically. Especially this year with only SHN and Ohana being the only shows I would expect a lot of travelers.
Just seeing the crowd at the Stone Pony packed in, no vax requirement, no mask requirement, and almost no one wearing masks... I can't think of anywhere in California right now that would look like that and have no vax or negative test requirement.
Location does matter, even just comparing SHN and Ohana. Fortunately, the vax/negative test requirement, mostly well-checked it seems at SHN, meant that SHN was probably very very safe, with hopefully a high unlikelihood of positive people & transmissions. Did any happen? Probably, but that was a risk we all took going in at all with this Delta Variant. But it's highly unlikely to turn out to be a superspreader.Post edited by JH6056 on0 -
You are kidding yourself if you think a vaxxxed person is not spreading covid. Viral loads in vaxxxed people have been shown to be similar in the Delta variant. The most logical and scientific way to prevent spread at a festival is to require everyone to have a negative test before entering. Excluding the vaxxxed doesn't make sense.0
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correct, but if you are asymptomatic you are generally spreading much much less than someone who is symptomatic. hopefully symptomatic people wouldn't attend a festival, but you know....SS105464 said:You are kidding yourself if you think a vaxxxed person is not spreading covid. Viral loads in vaxxxed people have been shown to be similar in the Delta variant. The most logical and scientific way to prevent spread at a festival is to require everyone to have a negative test before entering. Excluding the vaxxxed doesn't make sense.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
This is misleading.SS105464 said:You are kidding yourself if you think a vaxxxed person is not spreading covid. Viral loads in vaxxxed people have been shown to be similar in the Delta variant. The most logical and scientific way to prevent spread at a festival is to require everyone to have a negative test before entering. Excluding the vaxxxed doesn't make sense."Even for the highly infectious Delta variant, which seems to produce high viral loads in both vaccinated and unvaccinated people, the load goes down far more quickly in those with the vaccine."
Among many other sources:
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-viral-load
6/26/98, 8/17/00, 10/8/00, 12/8/02, 12/9/02, 4/25/03, 5/28/03, 6/1/03, 6/3/03, 6/5/03, 6/6/03, 6/12/03, 6/13/03, 6/15/03, 6/18/03, 6/21/03, 6/22/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03, 10/3/04, 10/5/04, 9/9/05, 9/11/05, 9/16/05, 5/16/06, 5/17/06, 5/19/06, 6/30/06, 7/23/06, 8/5/07, 6/30/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/4/10, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/11/13, 10/17/14, 8/20/160 -
I'm more concerned about the Covid-19 that was identified in my kids classroom than on an airplane or outdoor show/amusement park.
BC considers outdoor exposures low risk that only warrants monitoring and a test for any symptoms, which I learned from the outdoor paddle camp exposure we had in August during the highest time of local transmission.
I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef
Animals were hiding behind the Coral
Except for little Turtle
I could swear he's trying to talk to me
Gurgle Gurgle0 -
I just saw that Austin City Limits, which starts next weekend for 2 weekends, is requiring negative test results from within 3 days of show, regardless of vax status. To your point...SS105464 said:You are kidding yourself if you think a vaxxxed person is not spreading covid. Viral loads in vaxxxed people have been shown to be similar in the Delta variant. The most logical and scientific way to prevent spread at a festival is to require everyone to have a negative test before entering. Excluding the vaxxxed doesn't make sense.0 -
COVID update from Ohana: if you want to stay away from the crowd while enjoying a great view, then it’s all possible. I’ll get in the thick of the crowd tomorrow after I get my negative PCR test, albeit with a mask. Still not comfortable without it in such a big crowd.
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