I just Googled "How much money was wasted on California recall election?" and was not at all surprised to see that this recall election is being seen as a waste of money. And who do you suppose is the first to cry "foul" about government wasting money? Yup!
It is ridiculous. They bitched and complained about the Mueller report which cost $32 million. This thing cost $300,000,000 and had next to no chance of succeeding.
if it had no chance of succeeding, why were democrats so (seemingly) concerned about it?
Not taking any chances after what happened in '16.
I just Googled "How much money was wasted on California recall election?" and was not at all surprised to see that this recall election is being seen as a waste of money. And who do you suppose is the first to cry "foul" about government wasting money? Yup!
It is ridiculous. They bitched and complained about the Mueller report which cost $32 million. This thing cost $300,000,000 and had next to no chance of succeeding.
if it had no chance of succeeding, why were democrats so (seemingly) concerned about it?
Early polling (not like we should trust poll though!) were showing the recall had a good chance of going through and, adding hugely to the concern, was the fact that it it had gone through we would likely have ended up with a Elder, a right wing nutcase.
I am hearing "voter fraud" and crying about the recall from the right side.
The state is heavily democrat. Has been for years. What did you really think was going to happen?
Desperate measures from the right. This almost feels like they are parroting Trumps tantrum after he lost the presidential election. This is their new m.o. Every time they lose it will be more cry baby whining. Did Al Gore scream and whine when that election actually was stolen? No. The courts made their decision and he accepted it gracefully, not whining like the right wing does every time something doesn't go their way. Trump has set a new precedent for endless fit pitching and crying foul from the right, even when they are proven wrong.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Not saying this one was rigged, but I just don’t trust our voting system anymore.
And FYI, the way the ballot was prefolded so you didn’t have to think much about it, if someone did elect for the recall, their answer would be plainly shown through the holes in the envelope unless you folded it differently yourself.
Not saying a conspiracy, but who the hell designs so-called anonymous ballots so haplessly?
I can't speak for this recall vote, but when trump's election integrity commission set out to prove all of trump's claims about voter fraud they came up with nothing.
I feel like if these elections were indeed rigged, it would have been exposed by this point.
Just my $0.02.
I’m saying most, if not all, voting / results are questionable.
Color me cynical in this sense (hell, I do!), but it’s what I believe.
Not saying this one was rigged, but I just don’t trust our voting system anymore.
And FYI, the way the ballot was prefolded so you didn’t have to think much about it, if someone did elect for the recall, their answer would be plainly shown through the holes in the envelope unless you folded it differently yourself.
Not saying a conspiracy, but who the hell designs so-called anonymous ballots so haplessly?
I can't speak for this recall vote, but when trump's election integrity commission set out to prove all of trump's claims about voter fraud they came up with nothing.
I feel like if these elections were indeed rigged, it would have been exposed by this point.
Just my $0.02.
I’m saying most, if not all, voting / results are questionable.
Color me cynical in this sense (hell, I do!), but it’s what I believe.
Fair enough.
It's my opinion that if voter fraud were as rampant / much of an issue as we've been led to believe over the last few years we would have seen more evidence of it.
Not saying this one was rigged, but I just don’t trust our voting system anymore.
And FYI, the way the ballot was prefolded so you didn’t have to think much about it, if someone did elect for the recall, their answer would be plainly shown through the holes in the envelope unless you folded it differently yourself.
Not saying a conspiracy, but who the hell designs so-called anonymous ballots so haplessly?
I can't speak for this recall vote, but when trump's election integrity commission set out to prove all of trump's claims about voter fraud they came up with nothing.
I feel like if these elections were indeed rigged, it would have been exposed by this point.
Just my $0.02.
I’m saying most, if not all, voting / results are questionable.
Color me cynical in this sense (hell, I do!), but it’s what I believe.
Fair enough.
It's my opinion that if voter fraud were as rampant / much of an issue as we've been led to believe over the last few years we would have seen more evidence of it.
Maybe I'm not cynical enough though.
I think you are.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I think we've proven this year that the vast majority of Americans are not smart enough to rig an election and/or can keep their mouths shut about it to keep it a secret.
I think we've proven this year that the vast majority of Americans are not smart enough to rig an election and/or can keep their mouths shut about it to keep it a secret.
Agreed.
I look at it the same way I do the suggestion that professional sports are rigged... sure, you could have some rogue officials fixing games (Tim Donaghy) or some athletes throwing games / matches or otherwise influencing the outcome (point shaving) but as far as league wide conspiracies go? WAY too many people would have to be involved & in the know to rig an entire league.
The truth would eventually come out, either intentionally or by accident.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,292
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,292
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
Hillary does not run the Democratic Party and Biden did no whining.
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Exactly!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
You're comparing apples & oranges.
Hillary (accurately) predicted that trump would undermine absentee voting and suggested that Biden shouldn't concede on election night if it's close. And she was right, it wasn't until several days after the election that the results were confirmed.
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
Here's what Hillary said:
"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.
Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).
Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.
Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.
And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
Here's what Hillary said:
"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.
Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).
Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.
Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.
And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.
Yes, I can be honest. Yes, what Hillary and Biden said came to fruition. The election was no drawn out as Trump was projected to lose the night of. Did Trump contest the results? Yes and rightfully so. You can feel free to disagree with me on that subject which I won't even go down that hole with you because it will be a waste of both of our time. That's what is so great about America. You and I can both have our own opinions.
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
Here's what Hillary said:
"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.
Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).
Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.
Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.
And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.
Yes, I can be honest. Yes, what Hillary and Biden said came to fruition. The election was no drawn out as Trump was projected to lose the night of. Did Trump contest the results? Yes and rightfully so. You can feel free to disagree with me on that subject which I won't even go down that hole with you because it will be a waste of both of our time. That's what is so great about America. You and I can both have our own opinions.
Some opinions are based upon facts. Some are not. Some opinions are promoted without full context. Some are not.
Was the election called or “official” on election night or even one or two days later? What is tomorrow’s rally about? Has POOTWH conceded? Do you believe “The Big Lie?”
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
Here's what Hillary said:
"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.
Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).
Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.
Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.
And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.
Yes, I can be honest. Yes, what Hillary and Biden said came to fruition. The election was no drawn out as Trump was projected to lose the night of. Did Trump contest the results? Yes and rightfully so. You can feel free to disagree with me on that subject which I won't even go down that hole with you because it will be a waste of both of our time. That's what is so great about America. You and I can both have our own opinions.
rightfully so? really? you mean at the time or even now, with benefit of hindsight?
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
as halifax pointed out, what i said she meant is what the context bears out.
if you think none of us criticize liberals/democrats on this site, you haven't been paying attention.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Fucking A
jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,292
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
There are people here (myself included) who are willing to call out Dems on their shit from time to time. But yeah, Dems do get cut more slack here than Republicans, so I would grant you that to a degree. But there are a few things to consider here:
-This is a fan sight for a band that has not been afraid to express itself as being left leaning and progressive and obviously not well aligned with the right. That's going to attract a lot more liberal fans than conservative fans. You have to expect more Democrats and liberals to show interest here, especially when you are post on the AMT section of the fan site forums.
-You are posting on a thread about a recall election that, in the first place, was a farce foisted off on the voters of California at a great expense at a time when that money could have been put to much better use. And after losing that sham of a recall vote, many Republicans, especially those on the far right including their number one pick, Larry Elder, did whine before the election was over and have been whining ever since. That's just a simple fact. -That recall election has been soundly criticized by former president Trump as being rigged. This is more whining coming from a sore loser who has done nothing but whine ever since he was fairly and legally voted out of office. Those are just simple facts. -Yes, to say that Republicans whine about every election result might be an exaggeration, but Republicans are setting the precedent. If you support the Republican party and don't want to hear those accusations, I would suggest you work within that party to restore some respect to its existence because respect is what it is sorely lacking. You might consider working with the Lincoln Project folks who, from what I have read, appear to be far more rational, smart thinking, and logical in their actions that the hot headed infantile reactions of people like Larry Elder and Donald Trump and their followers.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I know this thread is about the CA recall, but this pertains to the whole “rigged election” theme that’s become so popular in recent years:
Anything that doesn’t go trump’s way is rigged. When trump expects to lose he gets out in front of it & claims it was rigged in advance. We all know this, we’ve all seen this. It’s not debatable.
Any suggestion that both sides behave this way is delusional at best.
Back in 2016 some republicans told him to cut the shit. Imagine that!
But he didn’t and it worked. “Rigged elections” is what we’re going to hear when democrats win now. Unless I’m mistaken, over 70% of republicans believe Biden stole 2020. People don’t trust the election process now, despite the fact that there’s no evidence to suggest widespread voter fraud exists. The messaging worked.
How does that saying go? “if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes truth.” The following links are from both 2016 & 2020…. It’s almost as if there’s a pattern of behavior.
One side has been proactively instilling distrust in our election process for the last several years, and it’s working. F off w/ the “both sides” bullshit here and stop believing blatant lies.
I know this thread is about the CA recall, but this pertains to the whole “rigged election” theme that’s become so popular in recent years:
Anything that doesn’t go trump’s way is rigged. When trump expects to lose he gets out in front of it & claims it was rigged in advance. We all know this, we’ve all seen this. It’s not debatable.
Any suggestion that both sides behave this way is delusional at best.
Back in 2016 some republicans told him to cut the shit. Imagine that!
But he didn’t and it worked. “Rigged elections” is what we’re going to hear when democrats win now. Unless I’m mistaken, over 70% of republicans believe Biden stole 2020. People don’t trust the election process now, despite the fact that there’s no evidence to suggest widespread voter fraud exists. The messaging worked.
How does that saying go? “if you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes truth.” The following links are from both 2016 & 2020…. It’s almost as if there’s a pattern of behavior.
One side has been proactively instilling distrust in our election process for the last several years, and it’s working. F off w/ the “both sides” bullshit here and stop believing blatant lies.
Buh, buh, buh the fraudit results in Arizona are going to be announced soon, and PA is doing one too but they’re requesting voters’ DL & SS#s with names and addresses of every voter and turning that information over to a yet to be named third party so they can check to see, well they don’t know yet but I’m sure it’s relevant. And Wisconsin is going to do a fraudit too because we all know Wisconsin voters make their own ballots, particularly in that city Detroit. You’ll see, 2020 election will be overturned and POOTWH will return to the oval. In 2040. It happens. A lot.
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
There are people here (myself included) who are willing to call out Dems on their shit from time to time. But yeah, Dems do get cut more slack here than Republicans, so I would grant you that to a degree. But there are a few things to consider here:
-This is a fan sight for a band that has not been afraid to express itself as being left leaning and progressive and obviously not well aligned with the right. That's going to attract a lot more liberal fans than conservative fans. You have to expect more Democrats and liberals to show interest here, especially when you are post on the AMT section of the fan site forums.
-You are posting on a thread about a recall election that, in the first place, was a farce foisted off on the voters of California at a great expense at a time when that money could have been put to much better use. And after losing that sham of a recall vote, many Republicans, especially those on the far right including their number one pick, Larry Elder, did whine before the election was over and have been whining ever since. That's just a simple fact. -That recall election has been soundly criticized by former president Trump as being rigged. This is more whining coming from a sore loser who has done nothing but whine ever since he was fairly and legally voted out of office. Those are just simple facts. -Yes, to say that Republicans whine about every election result might be an exaggeration, but Republicans are setting the precedent. If you support the Republican party and don't want to hear those accusations, I would suggest you work within that party to restore some respect to its existence because respect is what it is sorely lacking. You might consider working with the Lincoln Project folks who, from what I have read, appear to be far more rational, smart thinking, and logical in their actions that the hot headed infantile reactions of people like Larry Elder and Donald Trump and their followers.
Why do you think the recall election was a farce? Many people don’t like the direction California is headed and there were more than enough signatures to hold a new election. Recall elections have been successful before, I think Newsom and those who spoke on his behalf were legitimately concerned. No one knew it was going to be the blow out that it was. Now I would agree the requirements for a recall are too easy, and once elected that person should remain in office. But according to CA law, this recall was legit, met all the requirements, had Newsom and others worried. It wasn’t a farce. CA just has too low of a standard to meet for a recall that allows these elections to happen. That doesn’t make it a farce.
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
There are people here (myself included) who are willing to call out Dems on their shit from time to time. But yeah, Dems do get cut more slack here than Republicans, so I would grant you that to a degree. But there are a few things to consider here:
-This is a fan sight for a band that has not been afraid to express itself as being left leaning and progressive and obviously not well aligned with the right. That's going to attract a lot more liberal fans than conservative fans. You have to expect more Democrats and liberals to show interest here, especially when you are post on the AMT section of the fan site forums.
-You are posting on a thread about a recall election that, in the first place, was a farce foisted off on the voters of California at a great expense at a time when that money could have been put to much better use. And after losing that sham of a recall vote, many Republicans, especially those on the far right including their number one pick, Larry Elder, did whine before the election was over and have been whining ever since. That's just a simple fact. -That recall election has been soundly criticized by former president Trump as being rigged. This is more whining coming from a sore loser who has done nothing but whine ever since he was fairly and legally voted out of office. Those are just simple facts. -Yes, to say that Republicans whine about every election result might be an exaggeration, but Republicans are setting the precedent. If you support the Republican party and don't want to hear those accusations, I would suggest you work within that party to restore some respect to its existence because respect is what it is sorely lacking. You might consider working with the Lincoln Project folks who, from what I have read, appear to be far more rational, smart thinking, and logical in their actions that the hot headed infantile reactions of people like Larry Elder and Donald Trump and their followers.
Why do you think the recall election was a farce? Many people don’t like the direction California is headed and there were more than enough signatures to hold a new election. Recall elections have been successful before, I think Newsom and those who spoke on his behalf were legitimately concerned. No one knew it was going to be the blow out that it was. Now I would agree the requirements for a recall are too easy, and once elected that person should remain in office. But according to CA law, this recall was legit, met all the requirements, had Newsom and others worried. It wasn’t a farce. CA just has too low of a standard to meet for a recall that allows these elections to happen. That doesn’t make it a farce.
I think this Now I would agree the requirements for a recall are too easy, and once elected that person should remain in office and this CA just has too low of a standard to meet for a recall that allows these elections to happen are what Brian and others are referring to when calling it a "farce". If you don't agree with the wording, fine, but I think you get what he means. 12% to recall a governor? that's absurd.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
What about antifa? What about free speech? What about the guy who shot Steve Scalise? What about the mosque in Minnesota that got bombed? What about North Korea? What about murders in Chicago? What about Ivanka at the G-20? What about Vince Foster? If white pride is bad, then what about gay pride? What about the stock market? What about those 33,000 deleted emails? What about Hitler? What about the Crusades? What about the asteroid that may one day kill us all? What about Benghazi?
What about what about what about.
We’ve gotten very good at what-abouting.
The president has led the way.
His campaign may or may not have conspired with Moscow, but President Trump has routinely employed a durable old Soviet propaganda tactic. Tuesday’s bonkers news conference in New York was Trump’s latest act of “whataboutism,” the practice of short-circuiting an argument by asserting moral equivalency between two things that aren’t necessarily comparable. In this case, the president wondered whether the removal of a statue of Confederate leader Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville — where white supremacists clashed this weekend with counterprotesters — would lead to the teardown of others.
Donald Trump’s news conference on Tuesday offered a crash course in whataboutism. (Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP)
Robert E. Lee? What about George Washington?
“George Washington was a slave owner,” Trump said to journalists in the lobby of his corporate headquarters. “Are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson?”
Using the literal “what about” construction, Trump then went on to blame “both sides” for the violence in Charlottesville.
“What about the ‘alt-left’ that came charging at the, as you say, the ‘alt-right’?” the president said. “Do they have any semblance of guilt?”
For a nanosecond, especially to an uncritical listener, this stab at logic might seem interesting, even thought-provoking, and that’s why it’s a useful political tool. Whataboutism appears to broaden context, to offer a counterpoint, when really it’s diverting blame, muddying the waters and confusing the hell out of rational listeners.
“Not only does it help to deflect your original argument but it also throws you off balance,” says Alexey Kovalev, an independent Russian journalist, on the phone from Moscow. “You’re expecting to be in a civilized argument that doesn’t use cheap tricks like that. You are playing chess and your opponent — while making a lousy move — he just punches you on the nose.”
Vladimir Putin has made a national sport of what-abouting. In 2014, when a journalist challenged him on his annexation of Crimea, Putin brought up the U.S. annexation of Texas. The American invasion of Iraq is constantly what-abouted on state television, to excuse all kinds of Russian behavior.
In Edward Snowden, “Russia has found the ultimate whataboutism mascot,” the Atlantic’s Olga Khazan wrote in 2013. “By granting him asylum, Russia casts itself, even if momentarily, as a defender of human rights, and the U.S. as the oppressor.”
The term was first coined as “whataboutery” and “the whatabouts,” in stories about the Irish Republican Army in the 1970s, according to linguist Ben Zimmer. But the practice goes back to the chilly depths of the Cold War.
“An old joke 50 years ago was that if you went to a Stalinist and criticized the Soviet slave-labor camps, the Stalinist would say, ‘Well what about the lynchings in the American South?’” philosopher Noam Chomsky once said.
In 1970, as the Soviet Union made headlines for imprisoning dissidents, Ukrainian artist Viktor Koretsky created a propaganda lithograph titled “American Politics at home and abroad.” It depicted U.S. police beating a black man and a U.S. soldier standing over a dead body, presumably in Vietnam.
In May 1985 the U.S. State Department funded a conference at the Madison Hotel on the fallacy of “moral equivalence,” a philosophical cousin of whataboutism. The goal was to tamp down comparisons of the 1983 U.S. invasion of Grenada with the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, among other instances. The actions may be comparable, the State Department implied, but the intentions were not.
“If it is no longer possible to distinguish between freedom and despotism,” said Jeane Kirkpatrick, Ronald Reagan’s ambassador to the United Nations, then “the erosion of the foundation of a distinctively Western, democratic civilization is already far advanced and the situation serious indeed.”
Flash forward 30 years. President Trump’s Twitter feed has been a whataboutism showcase, with Hillary Clinton as the usual target.
April 3: “Did Hillary Clinton ever apologize for receiving the answers to the debate? Just asking!”
June 26: “The real story is that President Obama did NOTHING after being informed in August about Russian meddling.”
July 22: “. . . What about all of the Clinton ties to Russia . . .”
Googling of “Whataboutism” began to climb sharply in November of last year; this week, with Charlottesville, it reached an all-time high. “You look at both sides,” Trump said Tuesday, after saying “what about” three times. “I think there is blame on both sides . . . and nobody wants to say that.”
Some people saw this as brave truth-telling, and as exposing double standards in the media.
“Trump-haters on both sides of the aisle simply cry ‘whataboutism,’ as if it were a magic spell to ward off rational thought,” wrote Joel B. Pollak on the right-wing site Breitbart.com, in an article headlined “The attack on ‘whataboutism’ is a defense of hypocrisy.”
Trump’s most flagrant what-about, though, was used not in defense of himself, but in defense of Russia.
“Putin’s a killer,” Bill O’Reilly said to Trump in a February interview.
“There are a lot of killers,” Trump whatabouted. “We’ve got a lot of killers. What do you think — our country’s so innocent?”
“That’s exactly the kind of argument that Russian propagandists have used for years to justify some of Putin’s most brutal policies,” wrote Michael McFaul, former ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration.
“Moral relativism — ‘whataboutism’ — has always been a favorite weapon of illiberal regimes,” Russian chessmaster and activist Garry Kasparov told the Columbia Journalism Review in March. “For a U.S. president to employ it against his own country is tragic.”
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,292
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
There are people here (myself included) who are willing to call out Dems on their shit from time to time. But yeah, Dems do get cut more slack here than Republicans, so I would grant you that to a degree. But there are a few things to consider here:
-This is a fan sight for a band that has not been afraid to express itself as being left leaning and progressive and obviously not well aligned with the right. That's going to attract a lot more liberal fans than conservative fans. You have to expect more Democrats and liberals to show interest here, especially when you are post on the AMT section of the fan site forums.
-You are posting on a thread about a recall election that, in the first place, was a farce foisted off on the voters of California at a great expense at a time when that money could have been put to much better use. And after losing that sham of a recall vote, many Republicans, especially those on the far right including their number one pick, Larry Elder, did whine before the election was over and have been whining ever since. That's just a simple fact. -That recall election has been soundly criticized by former president Trump as being rigged. This is more whining coming from a sore loser who has done nothing but whine ever since he was fairly and legally voted out of office. Those are just simple facts. -Yes, to say that Republicans whine about every election result might be an exaggeration, but Republicans are setting the precedent. If you support the Republican party and don't want to hear those accusations, I would suggest you work within that party to restore some respect to its existence because respect is what it is sorely lacking. You might consider working with the Lincoln Project folks who, from what I have read, appear to be far more rational, smart thinking, and logical in their actions that the hot headed infantile reactions of people like Larry Elder and Donald Trump and their followers.
Why do you think the recall election was a farce? Many people don’t like the direction California is headed and there were more than enough signatures to hold a new election. Recall elections have been successful before, I think Newsom and those who spoke on his behalf were legitimately concerned. No one knew it was going to be the blow out that it was. Now I would agree the requirements for a recall are too easy, and once elected that person should remain in office. But according to CA law, this recall was legit, met all the requirements, had Newsom and others worried. It wasn’t a farce. CA just has too low of a standard to meet for a recall that allows these elections to happen. That doesn’t make it a farce.
Farce, joke, waste, ludicrous, shameful... there are all kinds a adjectives like that I would apply to the recall election. Why? Because:
-The process itself is illogical. If the "yes, recall [any governor]" vote wins, the one person out of a large field of candidates becomes the new governor. That means a candidate receiving as few as 12% of the vote steps into office. THAT is a farce, a joke, a sham, etc. -The recall election cost hundreds of millions of dollars and Newsom only has 12 more months until the next election. Wouldn't it have made more sense to use all that money to help fight wildfires (as I write this, the largest living objects- the giant Sequoia redwoods- are being threatened by wildfire), or help the homeless, or supply the poorest school districts, or any number of other more critical needs. -Because the Republican party could not come up with a better candidate than a misogynist nutcase.
So choose the adjectives... but I think you will find it unfitting to choose "wise", "well thought out", "prudent", "useful", "timely", or just about any other positive term you can come up with. My choice would be either "a farce" or "a fucking waste of time and money".
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
All this crying about voter fraud is a joke. It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom. When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall. Simple as that.
And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election. That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.
Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.
oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election.
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection. democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".
This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.
Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.
There are people here (myself included) who are willing to call out Dems on their shit from time to time. But yeah, Dems do get cut more slack here than Republicans, so I would grant you that to a degree. But there are a few things to consider here:
-This is a fan sight for a band that has not been afraid to express itself as being left leaning and progressive and obviously not well aligned with the right. That's going to attract a lot more liberal fans than conservative fans. You have to expect more Democrats and liberals to show interest here, especially when you are post on the AMT section of the fan site forums.
-You are posting on a thread about a recall election that, in the first place, was a farce foisted off on the voters of California at a great expense at a time when that money could have been put to much better use. And after losing that sham of a recall vote, many Republicans, especially those on the far right including their number one pick, Larry Elder, did whine before the election was over and have been whining ever since. That's just a simple fact. -That recall election has been soundly criticized by former president Trump as being rigged. This is more whining coming from a sore loser who has done nothing but whine ever since he was fairly and legally voted out of office. Those are just simple facts. -Yes, to say that Republicans whine about every election result might be an exaggeration, but Republicans are setting the precedent. If you support the Republican party and don't want to hear those accusations, I would suggest you work within that party to restore some respect to its existence because respect is what it is sorely lacking. You might consider working with the Lincoln Project folks who, from what I have read, appear to be far more rational, smart thinking, and logical in their actions that the hot headed infantile reactions of people like Larry Elder and Donald Trump and their followers.
Why do you think the recall election was a farce? Many people don’t like the direction California is headed and there were more than enough signatures to hold a new election. Recall elections have been successful before, I think Newsom and those who spoke on his behalf were legitimately concerned. No one knew it was going to be the blow out that it was. Now I would agree the requirements for a recall are too easy, and once elected that person should remain in office. But according to CA law, this recall was legit, met all the requirements, had Newsom and others worried. It wasn’t a farce. CA just has too low of a standard to meet for a recall that allows these elections to happen. That doesn’t make it a farce.
I think this Now I would agree the requirements for a recall are too easy, and once elected that person should remain in office and this CA just has too low of a standard to meet for a recall that allows these elections to happen are what Brian and others are referring to when calling it a "farce". If you don't agree with the wording, fine, but I think you get what he means. 12% to recall a governor? that's absurd.
Maybe it was the wording. He called this election a farce and a sham. Those are pretty specific words, so I’m assuming he meant it, just asked for a reason why he thinks so. Waste of time an money, yes. Farce and sham, no. I blame the system, not this particular election or those who pushed for it.
It followed all requirements, met the standards for a recall election. No one bent any rules, forged any documents, or anything else that makes this recall election illegitimate, or in other words, a sham. In fact, until just a few days ago most people actually seemed at least a little concerned it would pass, no one that I saw predicted it would be such a blow out.
I guess when I see someone call it a farce and a sham I interpret that as blaming those involved, maybe intentionally knowing they would not succeed but attempting to be destructive the Newsom and the Democratic Party. How else would this be a farce and a sham? My interpretation of those comments, which is why I asked what he meant. I think Elder and those who supported him thought he had a chance. I think those who supported Newsom also thought Elder had a chance.
I also think Newsom bears some responsibility. California is losing people in record numbers. High taxes, cost of living, low performing schools. Many don’t agree with his shut downs. Enough people don’t like California to allow it to meet the low standards for a recall.
Comments
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Early polling (not like we should trust poll though!) were showing the recall had a good chance of going through and, adding hugely to the concern, was the fact that it it had gone through we would likely have ended up with a Elder, a right wing nutcase.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Color me cynical in this sense (hell, I do!), but it’s what I believe.
Fair enough.
It's my opinion that if voter fraud were as rampant / much of an issue as we've been led to believe over the last few years we would have seen more evidence of it.
Maybe I'm not cynical enough though.
-EV 8/14/93
I look at it the same way I do the suggestion that professional sports are rigged... sure, you could have some rogue officials fixing games (Tim Donaghy) or some athletes throwing games / matches or otherwise influencing the outcome (point shaving) but as far as league wide conspiracies go? WAY too many people would have to be involved & in the know to rig an entire league.
The truth would eventually come out, either intentionally or by accident.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose.
democrats have never attempted an insurrection.
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election.
until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this.
-EV 8/14/93
Exactly!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Hillary (accurately) predicted that trump would undermine absentee voting and suggested that Biden shouldn't concede on election night if it's close. And she was right, it wasn't until several days after the election that the results were confirmed.
Why should anyone be outraged over that?
trump & Roger Stone had a "stop the steal" movement during the 2016 election when they (along w/ everyone else) assumed trump would lose.
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ohio-injunction-trump-roger-stone-polls-230754
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-ally-roger-stone-scrambling-create-election-day-operation-n673261
Weird, huh?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.
Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).
Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.
Hillary Clinton to Biden: Don't concede if the election is close - POLITICO
Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.
And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Was the election called or “official” on election night or even one or two days later? What is tomorrow’s rally about? Has POOTWH conceded? Do you believe “The Big Lie?”
I’ve got lots of time.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
-EV 8/14/93
if you think none of us criticize liberals/democrats on this site, you haven't been paying attention.
-EV 8/14/93
There are people here (myself included) who are willing to call out Dems on their shit from time to time. But yeah, Dems do get cut more slack here than Republicans, so I would grant you that to a degree.
But there are a few things to consider here:
-That recall election has been soundly criticized by former president Trump as being rigged. This is more whining coming from a sore loser who has done nothing but whine ever since he was fairly and legally voted out of office. Those are just simple facts.
-Yes, to say that Republicans whine about every election result might be an exaggeration, but Republicans are setting the precedent. If you support the Republican party and don't want to hear those accusations, I would suggest you work within that party to restore some respect to its existence because respect is what it is sorely lacking. You might consider working with the Lincoln Project folks who, from what I have read, appear to be far more rational, smart thinking, and logical in their actions that the hot headed infantile reactions of people like Larry Elder and Donald Trump and their followers.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Anything that doesn’t go trump’s way is rigged. When trump expects to lose he gets out in front of it & claims it was rigged in advance. We all know this, we’ve all seen this. It’s not debatable.
But he didn’t and it worked. “Rigged elections” is what we’re going to hear when democrats win now. Unless I’m mistaken, over 70% of republicans believe Biden stole 2020. People don’t trust the election process now, despite the fact that there’s no evidence to suggest widespread voter fraud exists. The messaging worked.
https://www.npr.org/2016/10/20/498713509/donald-trump-says-hell-accept-the-results-of-the-election-if-he-wins
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-longstanding-history-calling-elections-rigged-doesnt-results/story?id=74126926
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/17/politics/donald-trump-campaign-swing/index.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/15/trump-just-repeated-his-ugliest-claim-about-election-why-isnt-it-bigger-news/
One side has been proactively instilling distrust in our election process for the last several years, and it’s working. F off w/ the “both sides” bullshit here and stop believing blatant lies.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Many people don’t like the direction California is headed and there were more than enough signatures to hold a new election. Recall elections have been successful before, I think Newsom and those who spoke on his behalf were legitimately concerned. No one knew it was going to be the blow out that it was.
Now I would agree the requirements for a recall are too easy, and once elected that person should remain in office. But according to CA law, this recall was legit, met all the requirements, had Newsom and others worried. It wasn’t a farce. CA just has too low of a standard to meet for a recall that allows these elections to happen. That doesn’t make it a farce.
-EV 8/14/93
-EV 8/14/93
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/whataboutism-what-about-it/2017/08/17/4d05ed36-82b4-11e7-b359-15a3617c767b_story.html
Whataboutism: The Cold War tactic, thawed by Putin, is brandished by Donald Trump
What about antifa? What about free speech? What about the guy who shot Steve Scalise? What about the mosque in Minnesota that got bombed? What about North Korea? What about murders in Chicago? What about Ivanka at the G-20? What about Vince Foster? If white pride is bad, then what about gay pride? What about the stock market? What about those 33,000 deleted emails? What about Hitler? What about the Crusades? What about the asteroid that may one day kill us all? What about Benghazi?
What about what about what about.
We’ve gotten very good at what-abouting.
The president has led the way.
His campaign may or may not have conspired with Moscow, but President Trump has routinely employed a durable old Soviet propaganda tactic. Tuesday’s bonkers news conference in New York was Trump’s latest act of “whataboutism,” the practice of short-circuiting an argument by asserting moral equivalency between two things that aren’t necessarily comparable. In this case, the president wondered whether the removal of a statue of Confederate leader Robert E. Lee in Charlottesville — where white supremacists clashed this weekend with counterprotesters — would lead to the teardown of others.
Robert E. Lee? What about George Washington?
“George Washington was a slave owner,” Trump said to journalists in the lobby of his corporate headquarters. “Are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson?”
Using the literal “what about” construction, Trump then went on to blame “both sides” for the violence in Charlottesville.
“What about the ‘alt-left’ that came charging at the, as you say, the ‘alt-right’?” the president said. “Do they have any semblance of guilt?”
For a nanosecond, especially to an uncritical listener, this stab at logic might seem interesting, even thought-provoking, and that’s why it’s a useful political tool. Whataboutism appears to broaden context, to offer a counterpoint, when really it’s diverting blame, muddying the waters and confusing the hell out of rational listeners.
“Not only does it help to deflect your original argument but it also throws you off balance,” says Alexey Kovalev, an independent Russian journalist, on the phone from Moscow. “You’re expecting to be in a civilized argument that doesn’t use cheap tricks like that. You are playing chess and your opponent — while making a lousy move — he just punches you on the nose.”
[‘There are no fine people marching with Nazis’: Seth Meyers on Trump’s Charlottesville response]
Vladimir Putin has made a national sport of what-abouting. In 2014, when a journalist challenged him on his annexation of Crimea, Putin brought up the U.S. annexation of Texas. The American invasion of Iraq is constantly what-abouted on state television, to excuse all kinds of Russian behavior.
In Edward Snowden, “Russia has found the ultimate whataboutism mascot,” the Atlantic’s Olga Khazan wrote in 2013. “By granting him asylum, Russia casts itself, even if momentarily, as a defender of human rights, and the U.S. as the oppressor.”
The term was first coined as “whataboutery” and “the whatabouts,” in stories about the Irish Republican Army in the 1970s, according to linguist Ben Zimmer. But the practice goes back to the chilly depths of the Cold War.
“An old joke 50 years ago was that if you went to a Stalinist and criticized the Soviet slave-labor camps, the Stalinist would say, ‘Well what about the lynchings in the American South?’” philosopher Noam Chomsky once said.
In 1970, as the Soviet Union made headlines for imprisoning dissidents, Ukrainian artist Viktor Koretsky created a propaganda lithograph titled “American Politics at home and abroad.” It depicted U.S. police beating a black man and a U.S. soldier standing over a dead body, presumably in Vietnam.
In May 1985 the U.S. State Department funded a conference at the Madison Hotel on the fallacy of “moral equivalence,” a philosophical cousin of whataboutism. The goal was to tamp down comparisons of the 1983 U.S. invasion of Grenada with the 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, among other instances. The actions may be comparable, the State Department implied, but the intentions were not.
“If it is no longer possible to distinguish between freedom and despotism,” said Jeane Kirkpatrick, Ronald Reagan’s ambassador to the United Nations, then “the erosion of the foundation of a distinctively Western, democratic civilization is already far advanced and the situation serious indeed.”
[‘Clinically insane,’ ‘7th circle of hell’: Late-night hosts process Trump’s news conference]
Flash forward 30 years. President Trump’s Twitter feed has been a whataboutism showcase, with Hillary Clinton as the usual target.
April 3: “Did Hillary Clinton ever apologize for receiving the answers to the debate? Just asking!”
June 26: “The real story is that President Obama did NOTHING after being informed in August about Russian meddling.”
July 22: “. . . What about all of the Clinton ties to Russia . . .”
Googling of “Whataboutism” began to climb sharply in November of last year; this week, with Charlottesville, it reached an all-time high. “You look at both sides,” Trump said Tuesday, after saying “what about” three times. “I think there is blame on both sides . . . and nobody wants to say that.”
Some people saw this as brave truth-telling, and as exposing double standards in the media.
“Trump-haters on both sides of the aisle simply cry ‘whataboutism,’ as if it were a magic spell to ward off rational thought,” wrote Joel B. Pollak on the right-wing site Breitbart.com, in an article headlined “The attack on ‘whataboutism’ is a defense of hypocrisy.”
Trump’s most flagrant what-about, though, was used not in defense of himself, but in defense of Russia.
“Putin’s a killer,” Bill O’Reilly said to Trump in a February interview.
“There are a lot of killers,” Trump whatabouted. “We’ve got a lot of killers. What do you think — our country’s so innocent?”
“That’s exactly the kind of argument that Russian propagandists have used for years to justify some of Putin’s most brutal policies,” wrote Michael McFaul, former ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration.
“Moral relativism — ‘whataboutism’ — has always been a favorite weapon of illiberal regimes,” Russian chessmaster and activist Garry Kasparov told the Columbia Journalism Review in March. “For a U.S. president to employ it against his own country is tragic.”
-The recall election cost hundreds of millions of dollars and Newsom only has 12 more months until the next election. Wouldn't it have made more sense to use all that money to help fight wildfires (as I write this, the largest living objects- the giant Sequoia redwoods- are being threatened by wildfire), or help the homeless, or supply the poorest school districts, or any number of other more critical needs.
-Because the Republican party could not come up with a better candidate than a misogynist nutcase.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"