California governor recall election

Halifax2TheMax

Hobbes said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

brianlux said:

I just Googled "How much money was wasted on California recall election?" and was not at all surprised to see that this recall election is being seen as a waste of money.  And who do you suppose is the first to cry "foul" about government wasting money?  Yup!

It is ridiculous. They bitched and complained about the Mueller report which cost $32 million. This thing cost $300,000,000 and had next to no chance of succeeding. 

if it had no chance of succeeding, why were democrats so (seemingly) concerned about it? 

Not taking any chances after what happened in '16.

#triggered

And 2000 and 2004.

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

brianlux said:

I just Googled "How much money was wasted on California recall election?" and was not at all surprised to see that this recall election is being seen as a waste of money.  And who do you suppose is the first to cry "foul" about government wasting money?  Yup!

It is ridiculous. They bitched and complained about the Mueller report which cost $32 million. This thing cost $300,000,000 and had next to no chance of succeeding. 

if it had no chance of succeeding, why were democrats so (seemingly) concerned about it? 

Early polling (not like we should trust poll though!) were showing the recall had a good chance of going through and, adding hugely to the concern, was the fact that it it had gone through we would likely have ended up with a Elder, a right wing nutcase.

tempo_n_groove said:

I am hearing "voter fraud" and crying about the recall from the right side.

The state is heavily democrat.  Has been for years.  What did you really think was going to happen?

Desperate measures from the right.  This almost feels like they are parroting Trumps tantrum after he lost the presidential election.   This is their new m.o.  Every time they lose it will be more cry baby whining.  Did Al Gore scream and whine when that election actually was stolen?  No.  The courts made their decision and he accepted it gracefully, not whining like the right wing does every time something doesn't go their way.  Trump has set a new precedent for endless fit pitching and crying foul from the right, even when they are proven wrong. 

hedonist

Merkin Baller said:

hedonist said:

Not saying this one was rigged, but I just don’t trust our voting system anymore.

And FYI, the way the ballot was prefolded so you didn’t have to think much about it, if someone did elect for the recall, their answer would be plainly shown through the holes in the envelope unless you folded it differently yourself.

Not saying a conspiracy, but who the hell designs so-called anonymous ballots so haplessly? 

I can't speak for this recall vote, but when trump's election integrity commission set out to prove all of trump's claims about voter fraud they came up with nothing. 

I feel like if these elections were indeed rigged, it would have been exposed by this point. 

Just my $0.02. 

I’m saying most, if not all, voting / results are questionable.

Color me cynical in this sense (hell, I do!), but it’s what I believe. 

Merkin Baller

hedonist said:

Merkin Baller said:

hedonist said:

Not saying this one was rigged, but I just don’t trust our voting system anymore.

And FYI, the way the ballot was prefolded so you didn’t have to think much about it, if someone did elect for the recall, their answer would be plainly shown through the holes in the envelope unless you folded it differently yourself.

Not saying a conspiracy, but who the hell designs so-called anonymous ballots so haplessly? 

I can't speak for this recall vote, but when trump's election integrity commission set out to prove all of trump's claims about voter fraud they came up with nothing. 

I feel like if these elections were indeed rigged, it would have been exposed by this point. 

Just my $0.02. 

I’m saying most, if not all, voting / results are questionable.

Color me cynical in this sense (hell, I do!), but it’s what I believe. 

Fair enough.

It's my opinion that if voter fraud were as rampant / much of an issue as we've been led to believe over the last few years we would have seen more evidence of it. 

Maybe I'm not cynical enough though. 

HughFreakingDillon

Merkin Baller said:

hedonist said:

Merkin Baller said:

hedonist said:

Not saying this one was rigged, but I just don’t trust our voting system anymore.

And FYI, the way the ballot was prefolded so you didn’t have to think much about it, if someone did elect for the recall, their answer would be plainly shown through the holes in the envelope unless you folded it differently yourself.

Not saying a conspiracy, but who the hell designs so-called anonymous ballots so haplessly? 

I can't speak for this recall vote, but when trump's election integrity commission set out to prove all of trump's claims about voter fraud they came up with nothing. 

I feel like if these elections were indeed rigged, it would have been exposed by this point. 

Just my $0.02. 

I’m saying most, if not all, voting / results are questionable.

Color me cynical in this sense (hell, I do!), but it’s what I believe. 

Fair enough.

It's my opinion that if voter fraud were as rampant / much of an issue as we've been led to believe over the last few years we would have seen more evidence of it. 

Maybe I'm not cynical enough though. 

I think you are. 

cincybearcat

I think we've proven this year that the vast majority of Americans are not smart enough to rig an election and/or can keep their mouths shut about it to keep it a secret.  

Merkin Baller

cincybearcat said:

I think we've proven this year that the vast majority of Americans are not smart enough to rig an election and/or can keep their mouths shut about it to keep it a secret.  

Agreed.

I look at it the same way I do the suggestion that professional sports are rigged... sure, you could have some rogue officials fixing games (Tim Donaghy) or some athletes throwing games / matches or otherwise influencing the outcome (point shaving) but as far as league wide conspiracies go? WAY too many people would have to be involved & in the know to rig an entire league.

The truth would eventually come out, either intentionally or by accident. 

brianlux

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

JB16057

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

HughFreakingDillon

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election. 

you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose. 

democrats have never attempted an insurrection. 
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election. 

until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this. 

brianlux

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

Hillary does not run the Democratic Party and Biden did no whining.

HughFreakingDillon said:

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election. 

you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose. 

democrats have never attempted an insurrection. 
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election. 

until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this. 

Exactly!

Merkin Baller

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

You're comparing apples & oranges. 


Hillary (accurately) predicted that trump would undermine absentee voting and suggested that Biden shouldn't concede on election night if it's close. And she was right, it wasn't until several days after the election that the results were confirmed.

Why should anyone be outraged over that? 

Merkin Baller

Fun fact:

trump & Roger Stone had a "stop the steal" movement during the 2016 election when they (along w/ everyone else) assumed trump would lose. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ohio-injunction-trump-roger-stone-polls-230754

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-ally-roger-stone-scrambling-create-election-day-operation-n673261


Weird, huh? 

Halifax2TheMax

Merkin Baller said:

Fun fact:

trump & Roger Stone had a "stop the steal" movement during the 2016 election when they (along w/ everyone else) assumed trump would lose. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ohio-injunction-trump-roger-stone-polls-230754

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-ally-roger-stone-scrambling-create-election-day-operation-n673261


Weird, huh? 

Both sides are the same. Same-same.

JB16057

HughFreakingDillon said:

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election. 

you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose. 

democrats have never attempted an insurrection. 
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election. 

until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this. 

Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".

This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.

Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.

Halifax2TheMax

JB16057 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election. 

you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose. 

democrats have never attempted an insurrection. 
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election. 

until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this. 

Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".

This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.

Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.

Here's what Hillary said:

"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.

Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).

Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.

Hillary Clinton to Biden: Don't concede if the election is close - POLITICO

Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.

And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.

JB16057

Halifax2TheMax said:

JB16057 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election. 

you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose. 

democrats have never attempted an insurrection. 
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election. 

until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this. 

Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".

This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.

Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.

Here's what Hillary said:

"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.

Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).

Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.

Hillary Clinton to Biden: Don't concede if the election is close - POLITICO

Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.

And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.

Yes, I can be honest. Yes, what Hillary and Biden said came to fruition. The election was no drawn out as Trump was projected to lose the night of. Did Trump contest the results? Yes and rightfully so. You can feel free to disagree with me on that subject which I won't even go down that hole with you because it will be a waste of both of our time. That's what is so great about America. You and I can both have our own opinions.

Halifax2TheMax

JB16057 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JB16057 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election. 

you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose. 

democrats have never attempted an insurrection. 
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election. 

until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this. 

Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".

This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.

Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.

Here's what Hillary said:

"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.

Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).

Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.

Hillary Clinton to Biden: Don't concede if the election is close - POLITICO

Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.

And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.

Yes, I can be honest. Yes, what Hillary and Biden said came to fruition. The election was no drawn out as Trump was projected to lose the night of. Did Trump contest the results? Yes and rightfully so. You can feel free to disagree with me on that subject which I won't even go down that hole with you because it will be a waste of both of our time. That's what is so great about America. You and I can both have our own opinions.

Some opinions are based upon facts. Some are not. Some opinions are promoted without full context. Some are not.

Was the election called or “official” on election night or even one or two days later? What is tomorrow’s rally about? Has POOTWH conceded? Do you believe “The Big Lie?”

I’ve got lots of time.

HughFreakingDillon

JB16057 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JB16057 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election. 

you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose. 

democrats have never attempted an insurrection. 
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election. 

until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this. 

Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".

This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.

Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.

Here's what Hillary said:

"Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win if we don't give an inch and if we are as focused and relentless as the other side is," Clinton said in an excerpt posted Tuesday.

Clinton's remarks were in response to Democrats' months long suspicions that Trump would try to contest a loss. In April, Biden predicted Trump would try to delay the election, only to have the president openly flirt with the idea months later (Republicans and Democrats alike have shot down the idea).

Biden said in July that Trump would try to "indirectly steal" the election by attacking mail-in ballots amid the coronavirus pandemic, The Washington Post reported at the time.

Hillary Clinton to Biden: Don't concede if the election is close - POLITICO

Like words, context matters. She did not stop at, Joe Biden should not concede under any circumstances, as you would like everyone to believe.

And, did what Hillary and Biden state and predicte come to fruition? Were the results of the election "drawn out?" Did POOTWH contest the results and continue to do so? Be honest.

Yes, I can be honest. Yes, what Hillary and Biden said came to fruition. The election was no drawn out as Trump was projected to lose the night of. Did Trump contest the results? Yes and rightfully so. You can feel free to disagree with me on that subject which I won't even go down that hole with you because it will be a waste of both of our time. That's what is so great about America. You and I can both have our own opinions.

rightfully so? really? you mean at the time or even now, with benefit of hindsight?

HughFreakingDillon

JB16057 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JB16057 said:

brianlux said:

All this crying about voter fraud is a joke.  It's very easy to see why the Republicans lost their effort to recall Newsom.  When the best they could come up with for a leading candidate is a misogynistic crackpot like Larry Elder, Democrats were highly motivated to get the vote out and vote "no" on the recall.  Simple as that.

And Elder referred to the election having "twisted results" four days before the election.  That kind of pre-election whining only serves to illustrate how unhinged Elder's party has become.  

Didn't Hilary tell Biden, on national TV, that he should not concede to Trump under any circumstances? Where was the outrage then? That kind of pre-election whining is not unique to the Republican party. Both parties are unhinged and have been for a very long time.

oh please. haha. not unique to the republican party. all she meant was don't concede until we have all the facts. you have a bunch of republicans going on national fucking tv every goddamn night and tweeting every goddamn day about the stolen election. 

you have the former president of the united states holding rallies all over the country whining that he didn't lose. 

democrats have never attempted an insurrection. 
democrats don't whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at every election. 

until they do, there is zero both sidesing of this. 

Hilary did not say "do not concede until we know all of the facts." She said, "Do not concede under ANY circumstances".

This message board is full of Democrat sycophants. Why can't anyone admit when Democrats are wrong? Every point I bring up gets shot down like what I'm saying never happened. You all put a spin on the facts to make it fit into your political beliefs.

Republicans do not whine or pre-whine about voter fraud at EVERY election. Come on now. Why can't we just have honest conversations instead of shilling for the party we each believe in? It only creates more division.

as halifax pointed out, what i said she meant is what the context bears out. 

if you think none of us criticize liberals/democrats on this site, you haven't been paying attention.