Viruses / Vaccines

mickeyrat

 

Asia India Pandemics Coronavirus pandemic South Asia

India's pandemic death toll could be in the millions

By SHEIKH SAALIQ and KRUTIKA PATHI

Today

NEW DELHI (AP) — India's excess deaths during the pandemic could be a staggering 10 times the official COVID-19 toll, likely making it modern India’s worst human tragedy, according to the most comprehensive research yet on the ravages of the virus in the South Asian country.

Most experts believe India's official toll of more than 414,000 dead is a vast undercount, but the government has dismissed those concerns as exaggerated and misleading.

The report released Tuesday estimated excess deaths — the gap between those recorded and those that would have been expected — to be 3 million to 4.7 million between January 2020 and June 2021. It said an accurate figure may “prove elusive” but the true death toll “is likely to be an order of magnitude greater than the official count.”

The report was published by Arvind Subramanian, the Indian government’s former chief economic adviser, and two other researchers at the Center for Global Development, a nonprofit think tank based in Washington, and Harvard University.

It said the count could have missed deaths that occurred in overwhelmed hospitals or while health care was disrupted, particularly during the devastating virus surge earlier this year.

“True deaths are likely to be in the several millions not hundreds of thousands, making this arguably India’s worst human tragedy since Partition and independence,” the report said.

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The Partition of the British-ruled Indian subcontinent into independent India and Pakistan in 1947 led to the killing of up to 1 million people as gangs of Hindus and Muslims slaughtered each other.

The report on India's virus toll used three calculation methods: data from the civil registration system that records births and deaths across seven states, blood tests showing the prevalence of the virus in India alongside global COVID-19 fatality rates, and an economic survey of nearly 900,000 people done thrice a year.

Researchers cautioned that each method had weaknesses, such as the economic survey omitting the causes of death.

Instead, researchers looked at deaths from all causes and compared that data to mortality in previous years — a method widely considered an accurate metric.

Researchers also cautioned that virus prevalence and COVID-19 deaths in the seven states they studied may not translate to all of India, since the virus could have spread more in urban versus rural states and since health care quality varies greatly around India.

Other nations are also believed to have undercounted deaths in the pandemic. But India is thought to have a greater gap due to having the world's second highest population of 1.4 billion and because not all deaths were recorded even before the pandemic.

The health ministry did not immediately respond to an Associated Press request for comment on the report.

Dr. Jacob John, who studies viruses at the Christian Medical College at Vellore in southern India and was not part of the research, reviewed the report for the AP and said it underscores the devastating impact COVID-19 had on the country’s underprepared health system.

“This analysis reiterates the observations of other fearless investigative journalists that have highlighted the massive undercounting of deaths,” Jacob said.

The report also estimated that nearly 2 million Indians died during the first surge in infections last year and said not “grasping the scale of the tragedy in real time” may have “bred collective complacency that led to the horrors” of the surge earlier this year.

Over the last few months, some Indian states have increased their COVID-19 death toll after finding thousands of previously unreported cases, raising concerns that many more fatalities were not officially recorded.

Several Indian journalists have also published higher numbers from some states using government data. Scientists say this new information is helping them better understand how COVID-19 spread in India.

Murad Banaji, who studies mathematics at Middlesex University and has been looking at India’s COVID-19 mortality figures, said the recent data has confirmed some of the suspicions about undercounting. Banaji said the new data also shows the virus wasn't restricted to urban centers, as contemporary reports had indicated, and that India’s villages were also badly impacted.

“A question we should ask is if some of those deaths were avoidable,” he said.

Merkin Baller

CM189191 said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Olympics are in danger now, because, wait for it...  Perfectly healthy, young, mostly vaccinated, athletes in peak physical condition are testing positive for Covid.  When will the testing stop?  

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31847805/tokyo-2020-organizing-committee-chief-rule-cancellation-summer-olympics

Tokyo 2020 organizing committee chief won't rule out last-minute cancellation of Olympics

COVID-19 cases are rising in Tokyo, and the Games, postponed last year because of the pandemic, will be held without spectators. Japan this month decided that participants would compete in empty venues to minimize health risks.

There have been 67 cases of COVID-19 infections in Japan among those accredited for the Games since July 1, when many athletes and officials started arriving, organizers said Tuesday.

Not sure what narrative you're trying to create here.  But it's coming across as disingenuous, and intentionally misleading.  

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html
"COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective at preventing COVID-19 disease, especially severe illness and death."

The vaccine doesn't stop people from getting (or transmitting) COVID-19.  It stops people from dying. 

Nor was the claim ever made that the vaccine prevented people from getting or transmitting COVID19, but this bad faith bullshit is how a certain type of person gets their jollies, so don't expect it to stop anytime soon. 

mrussel1

This is already the worst thread ever.  

Poncier

gvn2fly1421 said:

Olympics are in danger now, because, wait for it...  Perfectly healthy, young, mostly vaccinated, athletes in peak physical condition are testing positive for Covid.  When will the testing stop?  

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31847805/tokyo-2020-organizing-committee-chief-rule-cancellation-summer-olympics

Tokyo 2020 organizing committee chief won't rule out last-minute cancellation of Olympics

COVID-19 cases are rising in Tokyo, and the Games, postponed last year because of the pandemic, will be held without spectators. Japan this month decided that participants would compete in empty venues to minimize health risks.

There have been 67 cases of COVID-19 infections in Japan among those accredited for the Games since July 1, when many athletes and officials started arriving, organizers said Tuesday.

There is absolutely nothing in that article about the vaccination status of the 67 who've tested positive....you're making stuff up to fit your narrative

Kat

Closed for review.

Kat

I'm not sure what to say about this. I don't agree that Fox has been saying this all along but there you go.

Sean Hannity Tells FOX Viewers To Take Covid-19 Seriously

Jul 20, 2021,

Welcome to the U.S. 2021, when a TV personality still has to say “please take Covid seriously,” after Covid-19 has already killed over 600,000 people in the U.S.

“Please take Covid seriously” is what Sean Hannity told his FOX News viewers on Monday night. It came when he said the following: “just like we’ve been saying, please take Covid seriously. I can’t say it enough. Enough people have died. We don’t need any more death.”

In the same TV segment, he also said, “take it seriously. You also have a right to medical privacy, and doctor-patient confidentiality is also important. And it absolutely makes sense for many Americans to get vaccinated. I believe in science, I believe in the science of vaccination.”

Of course, “I believe in science” is sort of like saying “I believe in reality” or “I believe in eating” or “I believe in showering at least once a year” or “I believe that I am not a gigantic potato knish.” It should be assumed. However, these days “anti-science” attitudes have become seemingly as prevalent as armpit odor.

continued at
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/07/20/sean-hannity-tells-fox-viewers-to-take-covid-19-seriously/?sh=378ecb1f34c4

mrussel1

Kat said:

I'm not sure what to say about this. I don't agree that Fox has been saying this all along but there you go.

Sean Hannity Tells FOX Viewers To Take Covid-19 Seriously

Jul 20, 2021,

Welcome to the U.S. 2021, when a TV personality still has to say “please take Covid seriously,” after Covid-19 has already killed over 600,000 people in the U.S.

“Please take Covid seriously” is what Sean Hannity told his FOX News viewers on Monday night. It came when he said the following: “just like we’ve been saying, please take Covid seriously. I can’t say it enough. Enough people have died. We don’t need any more death.”

In the same TV segment, he also said, “take it seriously. You also have a right to medical privacy, and doctor-patient confidentiality is also important. And it absolutely makes sense for many Americans to get vaccinated. I believe in science, I believe in the science of vaccination.”

Of course, “I believe in science” is sort of like saying “I believe in reality” or “I believe in eating” or “I believe in showering at least once a year” or “I believe that I am not a gigantic potato knish.” It should be assumed. However, these days “anti-science” attitudes have become seemingly as prevalent as armpit odor.

continued at
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/07/20/sean-hannity-tells-fox-viewers-to-take-covid-19-seriously/?sh=378ecb1f34c4

Hannity has been one of the few boxes there that has advocated for the vaccine since the start.  Problem is that he is bookended by Tucker and Laura Ingram who are profiting on the anti-vax.

Kat

We're going to stay on topic, thank you.
-->Discuss the topic and not the people discussing the topic.
Also, we still have an Ignore feature. If you don't want to read someone, put them on your IGNORE list and then don't read it when they are quoted. Thank you again.

gvn2fly1421

Poncier said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Olympics are in danger now, because, wait for it...  Perfectly healthy, young, mostly vaccinated, athletes in peak physical condition are testing positive for Covid.  When will the testing stop?  

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31847805/tokyo-2020-organizing-committee-chief-rule-cancellation-summer-olympics

Tokyo 2020 organizing committee chief won't rule out last-minute cancellation of Olympics

COVID-19 cases are rising in Tokyo, and the Games, postponed last year because of the pandemic, will be held without spectators. Japan this month decided that participants would compete in empty venues to minimize health risks.

There have been 67 cases of COVID-19 infections in Japan among those accredited for the Games since July 1, when many athletes and officials started arriving, organizers said Tuesday.

There is absolutely nothing in that article about the vaccination status of the 67 who've tested positive....you're making stuff up to fit your narrative

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/19/did-olympic-athletes-need-to-be-vaccinated-no---and-now-more-are-testing-positive-for-covid-19/?sh=169025d84db7

BIG NUMBER

More than 80%. That’s the percentage of Olympic and Paralympic athletes that are estimated to be vaccinated against Covid-19, the IOC projected in June. That number may now be higher, as the IOC told Forbes in an email Monday night it has “received assurances” that at least 85% of delegation members from countries’ National Olympics Committees have been vaccinated. Individual sports teams may also have higher vaccination rates: the Washington Post reported in June 90% of athletes on the U.S. Olympic swim team were vaccinated, for instance, while USA Today reports the U.S. men’s rugby team “collectively agree[d]...that vaccinations were an overall positive.”

Does 80% count as "mostly"?

Sea

Reminder: Please respect topic integrity by not derailing discussions. Thank you

https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/228366/forum-posting-guidelines

Halifax2TheMax

gvn2fly1421 said:

The thing is, there is a large percentage of the population that views the majority of the posts here as misinformation.  

So, who is right?  I don't know.  I do not understand why one side can present information and why the other side cannot present information which leads to dialog and an understanding.

"Large percentage" equals one whereas 80% does not equal 100%. One side presents information based in fact and science, the other presents information from known conspiracy theorists and purposefully misrepresents the information linked. Same-same.

Perhaps you could point out the posts with misinformation?

gvn2fly1421

Halifax2TheMax said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

The thing is, there is a large percentage of the population that views the majority of the posts here as misinformation.  

So, who is right?  I don't know.  I do not understand why one side can present information and why the other side cannot present information which leads to dialog and an understanding.

"Large percentage" equals one whereas 80% does not equal 100%. One side presents information based in fact and science, the other presents information from known conspiracy theorists and purposefully misrepresents the information linked. Same-same.

Perhaps you could point out the posts with misinformation?

Probably a bad job of wording on my part, probably should of said half the population.  

Kat

mrussel1 said:

Kat said:

I'm not sure what to say about this. I don't agree that Fox has been saying this all along but there you go.

Sean Hannity Tells FOX Viewers To Take Covid-19 Seriously

Jul 20, 2021,

Welcome to the U.S. 2021, when a TV personality still has to say “please take Covid seriously,” after Covid-19 has already killed over 600,000 people in the U.S.

“Please take Covid seriously” is what Sean Hannity told his FOX News viewers on Monday night. It came when he said the following: “just like we’ve been saying, please take Covid seriously. I can’t say it enough. Enough people have died. We don’t need any more death.”

In the same TV segment, he also said, “take it seriously. You also have a right to medical privacy, and doctor-patient confidentiality is also important. And it absolutely makes sense for many Americans to get vaccinated. I believe in science, I believe in the science of vaccination.”

Of course, “I believe in science” is sort of like saying “I believe in reality” or “I believe in eating” or “I believe in showering at least once a year” or “I believe that I am not a gigantic potato knish.” It should be assumed. However, these days “anti-science” attitudes have become seemingly as prevalent as armpit odor.

continued at
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/07/20/sean-hannity-tells-fox-viewers-to-take-covid-19-seriously/?sh=378ecb1f34c4

Hannity has been one of the few boxes there that has advocated for the vaccine since the start.  Problem is that he is bookended by Tucker and Laura Ingram who are profiting on the anti-vax.

Thanks m. I never watch him so didn't know. 

gvn2fly1421

To stay on topic, as I posted the other day, it seems it is becoming more and more likely that we ALL are going to catch the virus regardless of vaccination status.  

If the above is true, why are the vaccinated so worried about the unvaccinated?

gvn2fly1421

Also, to steal from a tweet that I posted the other day, why has there not been a town hall style Q & A with Fauci, the surgeon general, the CDC, etc fielding questions from all types of reporters?  Not just the softball questions Fauci fields daily, but have "conspiracy theorists" asking questions and have them answered.  I think something like that would go a long way in helping the vaccine hesitant. 

Of all the money spent on advertising the vaccine, I would think this could easily be done.

lastexitlondon

Because  of mutations 

gvn2fly1421

lastexitlondon said:

Because  of mutations 

But you as a vaccinated person catch the virus, so doesn't it still mutate?

lastexitlondon

The virus spreads much more and faster in unvaccinated.  Facts.  So more  spread. More change  . More  variants. Its simple 

mrussel1

gvn2fly1421 said:

Also, to steal from a tweet that I posted the other day, why has there not been a town hall style Q & A with Fauci, the surgeon general, the CDC, etc fielding questions from all types of reporters?  Not just the softball questions Fauci fields daily, but have "conspiracy theorists" asking questions and have them answered.  I think something like that would go a long way in helping the vaccine hesitant. 

Of all the money spent on advertising the vaccine, I would think this could easily be done.

They consistently go in front of senate and house committees.  Fauci testified just today, along with the head of the CDC and the acting commissioner of the FDA.  Are these the softball questions that they are getting 'daily'?  And yeah, what a great idea, giving a bunch of know-nothings the credibility to ask questions.  Don't worry, Ayn Rand Paul is giving them enough oxygen already.  

lastexitlondon

The  vaccine works.  It stops death and  it slows spread 
 No  vaccine  equals exponential spread. Look at india. Its not all about  usa and uk. World  wide you should  care equally about.