Why? This is one aspect of "interneting" that I'll just never understand; the people that need to be "in before the lock." Well you're in. Good to have ya.
5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
Forgo the vaccine you say? In the coronavirus thread you got closed, you stated:
" Like I said, I am fully vaccinated now and a lot of it is your analysis. So many thanks!"
Or am I reading one of these posts wrong? Cause you can't be vaccinated and have "chosen to forgo the vaccine"
I thought my sarcasm meter was off the charts with posts like...
"BTW, for those wondering, I am fully vaccinated now. I would show you my card but I only posted it to my Facebook. Took one shot of Pfizer and one Moderna. Ready for the Pfizer booster in 4-6 months and may get the J&J in a few weeks for extra protection!"
or...
"To help spur a vaccine drive for my area, very redneck-y if you catch my drift, I am going to do several raffles. Guns, booze, American flags, truck nuts, the works. I will report back in several weeks and let y'all know how I do. Just trying to spread the word on the power of the vaccine. I really didn't even experience any side effects, just couldn't use my right arm for three days, which was really weird. You know like when you get dental work and they numb your mouth and your lips feel like they are droopy. That's what my right arm felt like. The weird part was I got the jab in the left arm. Oh well, I am rambling now. "
...but apparently it was not clear enough. BTW, how is that 401k looking? Probably not much different than two days ago when you blamed the "Unvaxxed-holes" or was it "Antivax-holes" for your retirement savings being depleted.
Sure it’s tough to read through all your awful posts. But the quote I took that from wasn’t any of those posts.
And again, it wasn’t about 1 day. It’s about what is to come. We saw what happened the last time coronavirus was widespread. How can you not get that? Are you purposefully being dense?
What exactly happened last time the virus was widespread? In regards to your 401k it should have been great.
On February 14th of 2020, the DJIA was at ~29,000. By March 20th it had went all the way down to ~19,000. It is currently at 34,700. So remind me again how I am being dense?
Two things, one being if you are close to retirement, then I get the angst. I truly do. But, me being no financial advisor (or maybe I am) if you are close to retirement I might have you in something a little less risky. The second thing, how can you not look at those numbers above and not see a buying opportunity for the ages?
Also, who truly made out during this last year....
5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
Forgo the vaccine you say? In the coronavirus thread you got closed, you stated:
" Like I said, I am fully vaccinated now and a lot of it is your analysis. So many thanks!"
Or am I reading one of these posts wrong? Cause you can't be vaccinated and have "chosen to forgo the vaccine"
I thought my sarcasm meter was off the charts with posts like...
"BTW, for those wondering, I am fully vaccinated now. I would show you my card but I only posted it to my Facebook. Took one shot of Pfizer and one Moderna. Ready for the Pfizer booster in 4-6 months and may get the J&J in a few weeks for extra protection!"
or...
"To help spur a vaccine drive for my area, very redneck-y if you catch my drift, I am going to do several raffles. Guns, booze, American flags, truck nuts, the works. I will report back in several weeks and let y'all know how I do. Just trying to spread the word on the power of the vaccine. I really didn't even experience any side effects, just couldn't use my right arm for three days, which was really weird. You know like when you get dental work and they numb your mouth and your lips feel like they are droopy. That's what my right arm felt like. The weird part was I got the jab in the left arm. Oh well, I am rambling now. "
...but apparently it was not clear enough. BTW, how is that 401k looking? Probably not much different than two days ago when you blamed the "Unvaxxed-holes" or was it "Antivax-holes" for your retirement savings being depleted.
Sure it’s tough to read through all your awful posts. But the quote I took that from wasn’t any of those posts.
And again, it wasn’t about 1 day. It’s about what is to come. We saw what happened the last time coronavirus was widespread. How can you not get that? Are you purposefully being dense?
What exactly happened last time the virus was widespread? In regards to your 401k it should have been great.
On February 14th of 2020, the DJIA was at ~29,000. By March 20th it had went all the way down to ~19,000. It is currently at 34,700. So remind me again how I am being dense?
Two things, one being if you are close to retirement, then I get the angst. I truly do. But, me being no financial advisor (or maybe I am) if you are close to retirement I might have you in something a little less risky. The second thing, how can you not look at those numbers above and not see a buying opportunity for the ages?
Also, who truly made out during this last year....
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?
I don't believe that any death occurring within 60 days of a positive test is counted as COVID. Where are you sourcing that information? If COVID were not actually connected to the death, we would not have seen a 15.9% age adjusted increase in mortality in 2020 compared to 2019. If your hypothesis is correct, the mortality rate would not have increased at all.
In Oregon a death is reported as a COVID death if:
The death is of a confirmed or probable COVID-19 case within 60 days of the earliest available date among exposure to a confirmed case, onset of symptoms, or date of specimen collection for the first positive test; or
The death results from any cause in a hospitalized person during admission or in the 60 days following discharge AND a COVID-19-positive laboratory diagnostic test at any time since14 days prior to hospitalization; or
The death is of someone with a COVID-19-specific ICD-10 code listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate, regardless of the dates of diagnosis or death.
While not 60 days, I love this video of the Illinois Director of Public Health being completely honest.
""If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined."
Again, this is real causal data that shows COVID was real and has/had a meaningful negative impact on life expectancy, mortality rates, etc. If COVID is overstated and just BS, why would these numbers continue to represent the opposite?
It’s just great seeing the economy beginning to tank again due to Anti-Vaxxers. This ain’t hard people. And I’d like to keep my retirement savings intact please, do you?
Get the damn shot.
You specifically mentioned your retirement savings. That's why I made it about the stock market. I would gladly discuss in a private message with you, but I would prefer not to get this thread closed again. After all, I am making a lot of friends here...
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?
You really need better sources of information and stop misrepresenting but to answer the bold, see below:
Death certificates are not filed in the system until outstanding test results are in and the information is as complete as possible. By the time a record gets to the vital records system, “it is as close to perfect as it's going to get,” Webster says.
A physician, medical examiner or coroner fills out the cause of mortality on the death certificate. That specialist is instructed to include only conditions that caused or contributed to death, Anderson says. One field lists the sequence of events leading to the death. “What we're really trying to get at is the condition or disease that started the chain of events leading to the death,” Anderson says. “For COVID-19, that might be something like acute respiratory distress due to pneumonia due to COVID-19.” A second part of the certificate lists other conditions that may have contributed to the death yet were not part of the sequence of events that led up to it, he says. These are called comorbidities, and although they can be contributing factors, they cannot be directly involved in the chain of cause and effect that ended in death. Medical conditions such as diabetes or heart disease are common comorbidities, and they can make a person more vulnerable to the coronavirus, Anderson says, “but the fact is: they're not dying from that preexisting condition.”
“When we ask if COVID killed somebody, it means ‘Did they die sooner than they would have if they didn't have the virus?’” Lessler says. Even a person with a potentially life-shortening condition such as heart disease may have lived another five, 10 or more years, had they not become infected with COVID-19.
Later in the article:
The idea that a death certificate with ailments listed in addition to COVID-19 means that the person did not really die from the virus is simply false, Anderson says.
The surveillance and vital statistics data provide a pretty good picture of how many deaths are attributable to the coronavirus, but they do not capture all of them, and that is where the final line of evidence come in: excess deaths. They are the number of deaths that occur above and beyond the historical pattern for that time period, says Steven Woolf, a physician and population health researcher at the Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine.
This had been explained in the previous thread, since closed, and you chose to either ignore the explanation and the evidence backing that explanation or just continue to post conspiracy theories and misinformation. What are your thoughts on the death count in India being closer to 3-4 million? All motorcycle and gun accidents?
The thing with the information I post though, is that is how I form my opinion. I am getting blasted over this Scotland data, which is literally linked to the Public Health site and data in the article. The way I understand the issue you have mrussell is how that data is being interpreted, in that they are counting vaccine deaths as any death within 28 days of the vaccine being administered. I am trying to say that is how covid deaths have been counted this whole time so why not count the vaccine deaths the same?
I don't believe that any death occurring within 60 days of a positive test is counted as COVID. Where are you sourcing that information? If COVID were not actually connected to the death, we would not have seen a 15.9% age adjusted increase in mortality in 2020 compared to 2019. If your hypothesis is correct, the mortality rate would not have increased at all.
In Oregon a death is reported as a COVID death if:
The death is of a confirmed or probable COVID-19 case within 60 days of the earliest available date among exposure to a confirmed case, onset of symptoms, or date of specimen collection for the first positive test; or
The death results from any cause in a hospitalized person during admission or in the 60 days following discharge AND a COVID-19-positive laboratory diagnostic test at any time since14 days prior to hospitalization; or
The death is of someone with a COVID-19-specific ICD-10 code listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate, regardless of the dates of diagnosis or death.
While not 60 days, I love this video of the Illinois Director of Public Health being completely honest.
""If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined."
Again, this is real causal data that shows COVID was real and has/had a meaningful negative impact on life expectancy, mortality rates, etc. If COVID is overstated and just BS, why would these numbers continue to represent the opposite?
That is the one thing I have no had a comeback for the past several months of debate on this topic (excess death). I have offered ideas, one of which is shared in the very article you linked-
"The increase in drug overdose deaths was also a factor in declining life expectancy. More than 93,000 people died from drug overdoses in 2020. That's the highest number reported in a single year. Other causes of death contributing to the decline were increases in homicide and deaths from diabetes and chronic liver disease."
It seems like I read somewhere that the average age of covid death is higher than the average life expectancy. May try to find that later.
I do not understand how you think it is reasonable that I test positive for the virus on January 1, then die on Febraury 28th to an automobile accident and that should count as a covid death.
It’s just great seeing the economy beginning to tank again due to Anti-Vaxxers. This ain’t hard people. And I’d like to keep my retirement savings intact please, do you?
Get the damn shot.
You specifically mentioned your retirement savings. That's why I made it about the stock market. I would gladly discuss in a private message with you, but I would prefer not to get this thread closed again. After all, I am making a lot of friends here...
That's quite alright. Carry on with your campaign against the vaccine her in public.
India's COVID-19 death toll could be 10 times the official count, research suggests
The report released Tuesday estimated excess deaths — the gap between those recorded and those that would have been expected — to be 3.4 million to 4.7 million between January 2020 and June 2021. It said an accurate figure may "prove elusive" but the true death toll "is likely to be an order of magnitude greater than the official count."
India's COVID-19 death toll could be 10 times the official count, research suggests
The report released Tuesday estimated excess deaths — the gap between those recorded and those that would have been expected — to be 3.4 million to 4.7 million between January 2020 and June 2021. It said an accurate figure may "prove elusive" but the true death toll "is likely to be an order of magnitude greater than the official count."
Canada’s procurement of vaccine doses will hit 66 million next week, enough to fully vaccinate all those currently eligible. The initial hope had been to reach that mark by September some time, but we have been able to ramp up the deliveries and are now on track to meet it by the end of July. A major success by almost any measure.
We have to keep working on getting vaccines to those willing to take them but who, for geographical or personal reasons, have been unable to access vaccination so far. Luckily we have a smaller percentage of outright refusers. We might reach 90% vaccination of those eligible but that’s a big “might”.
India's COVID-19 death toll could be 10 times the official count, research suggests
The report released Tuesday estimated excess deaths — the gap between those recorded and those that would have been expected — to be 3.4 million to 4.7 million between January 2020 and June 2021. It said an accurate figure may "prove elusive" but the true death toll "is likely to be an order of magnitude greater than the official count."
5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
Hello There!
Hopefully it doesn't caption all of the quotes here.. just your recent one. I have a few questions and comments about you. Before we go there, I haven't read other threads so if people are mocking you or insulting you, then that's not cool in my opinion... but at the same time I can understand where they may be coming from (I'll get to that later)
If I understand you correctly... you want to wait until there is more information or proof, then you may consider the vaccine. At the same time, you also don't believe the virus is dangerous enough and so you'll risk getting it as you are young and healthy.
Biggest question I would ask you is this: Will you continue to follow the three pillars of prevention as I call them: 1: Sanitize 2: Mask 3: Distance ?? Will you continue to do those things? That's the most important thing I want to know from you.
Next question is: What is your threshold of proof? Like at what point would you say "OK, I'm sold, vaccine works." And I would mention that from what I understand in USA in particular is that you have an abundance of people contracting the virus and some being hospitalized, all of whom are un-vaccinated. Like, does that concrete information register enough to sway you towards getting the vaccine? Perhaps you will pounce on my word "all." Ok, call it, 98%, 95%. Still very, very high.
A point I would like to mention with regards to what you said about risk. Getting COVID and getting the vaccine both do come with risks, yes. My arm was sore for a couple days. I know some people who were sick for a day or so. Friend of mine couldn't sleep because of 'chills' from the vaccine. My understanding is that getting the virus is much more risky than getting the vaccine. Girl at work was sick for a month. Family member hospitalized for a week. Family members of friends literally died. But the other thing and this goes to my first question, do you understand that the difference between the two 'risks' here is that while both affect you personally, the other could affect other people you come into contact with? Granted, the risk is low to contract.. but I mean... lots of dead people, lots of sick people, businesses done, industries in the toilet... etc. etc.
Final thought here... life amongst other people is all about trust. If you drive on the road, you're putting your life in other people's hands. You've never met them. You don't know how 'trained' they are at driving... but I bet you still drive. Ever been on a plane? Literally flying thousands of feet in the air in a tin can. Did you meet the pilot? Verify his/her credentials? Double check the schools he/she went to? You see where I'm going. There is a consensus amongst the scientific, medical, and yes political community that agrees the vaccines are safe. To suggest that we're all wrong, and that a small few are correct... it begs the question, why?
To give you an idea why your stance is controversial is because for starters is does go against the majority... which isn't necessarily to say it's absolutely correct but look at what we're talking about here. A vaccination against a deadly virus. A person voluntarily not wanting to get it is obviously going to cause controversy because it doesn't make a lot of sense to said majority.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,774
edited July 2021
That Delta variant is changing some previous conclusions. Be safe and get vaxxed.
Dr. Vin Gupta encourages J&J vaccine recipients to get a Pfizer or Moderna booster
Key Points
--A new study from a lab at NYU Tuesday raises serious questions about the effectiveness of J&J’s single-dose vaccine against the highly contagious delta variant. --CNBC’s Meg Tirrell spoke to the lead author of the study who told her that the study suggests, “one should at least consider a second vaccination, a second shot” with the J&J vaccine, either of the same vaccine, or one from Pfizer or Moderna.
--“I do think that those one-shot J&Jer’s should be given the opportunity, while we complete our clinical trial...I’m already telling my patients to do it, if they can get access to it,” said intensive-care unit and lung doctor Dr. Vin Gupta.
Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,774
edited July 2021
The Delta variant again...may it become apparent to anyone who's hesitant that they need to get vaxxed. It may not prevent the virus but it could prevent death. We want everyone to be safe and Alive.
After waiting, Steve Scalise gets COVID vaccine, calls it 'safe and effective'
BY TYLER BRIDGES | STAFF WRITER JUL 20, 2021
Steve Scalise gets vaccinated
“Soon,” U.S. Rep. Steve Scalise replied at the beginning of April when asked when he would be vaccinated against the coronavirus.
He repeated the response in May when he was asked the same question.
But it wasn't until Sunday that Scalise actually received his first Pfizer vaccination at an Ochsner clinic in Jefferson Parish.
Why did the No. 2 Republican in the House wait until now?
“Especially with the delta variant becoming a lot more aggressive and seeing another spike, it was a good time to do it,” he said in an interview. “When you talk to people who run hospitals, in New Orleans or other states, 90% of people in hospital with delta variant have not been vaccinated. That’s another signal the vaccine works.”
“Especially with the delta variant becoming a lot more aggressive and seeing another spike, it was a good time to do it,” he said in an interview. “When you talk to people who run hospitals, in New Orleans or other states, 90% of people in hospital with delta variant have not been vaccinated. That’s another signal the vaccine works.”
He's close. A good time to do it was 2-3 months ago to prevent the Delta variant from gaining a strong foothold in the US, but alas here we are. Better late than never.
I don’t know enough about nor have I done enough research to comment on death statistics and the reasons for them but I do know that 33 years ago my sister died of cervical cancer and the death certificate listed cardiac arrest as the cause. No, she died because cancer depleted her organ function so maybe they finally fixed that nonsense and say what actually instigated the death in the first place. They did the same with AIDS patients…died of pneumonia listed on the certificate but it certainly started with HIV crushing their immune systems.
Death is death and if we know that 600,000 more people died last year then the year before then you tell me why that occurred if not by covid related issues.
Sometimes the pure ignorance of people is offensive.
“Especially with the delta variant becoming a lot more aggressive and seeing another spike, it was a good time to do it,” he said in an interview. “When you talk to people who run hospitals, in New Orleans or other states, 90% of people in hospital with delta variant have not been vaccinated. That’s another signal the vaccine works.”
He's close. A good time to do it was 2-3 months ago to prevent the Delta variant from gaining a strong foothold in the US, but alas here we are. Better late than never.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
Hello There!
Hopefully it doesn't caption all of the quotes here.. just your recent one. I have a few questions and comments about you. Before we go there, I haven't read other threads so if people are mocking you or insulting you, then that's not cool in my opinion... but at the same time I can understand where they may be coming from (I'll get to that later)
If I understand you correctly... you want to wait until there is more information or proof, then you may consider the vaccine. At the same time, you also don't believe the virus is dangerous enough and so you'll risk getting it as you are young and healthy.
Biggest question I would ask you is this: Will you continue to follow the three pillars of prevention as I call them: 1: Sanitize 2: Mask 3: Distance ?? Will you continue to do those things? That's the most important thing I want to know from you.
Next question is: What is your threshold of proof? Like at what point would you say "OK, I'm sold, vaccine works." And I would mention that from what I understand in USA in particular is that you have an abundance of people contracting the virus and some being hospitalized, all of whom are un-vaccinated. Like, does that concrete information register enough to sway you towards getting the vaccine? Perhaps you will pounce on my word "all." Ok, call it, 98%, 95%. Still very, very high.
A point I would like to mention with regards to what you said about risk. Getting COVID and getting the vaccine both do come with risks, yes. My arm was sore for a couple days. I know some people who were sick for a day or so. Friend of mine couldn't sleep because of 'chills' from the vaccine. My understanding is that getting the virus is much more risky than getting the vaccine. Girl at work was sick for a month. Family member hospitalized for a week. Family members of friends literally died. But the other thing and this goes to my first question, do you understand that the difference between the two 'risks' here is that while both affect you personally, the other could affect other people you come into contact with? Granted, the risk is low to contract.. but I mean... lots of dead people, lots of sick people, businesses done, industries in the toilet... etc. etc.
Final thought here... life amongst other people is all about trust. If you drive on the road, you're putting your life in other people's hands. You've never met them. You don't know how 'trained' they are at driving... but I bet you still drive. Ever been on a plane? Literally flying thousands of feet in the air in a tin can. Did you meet the pilot? Verify his/her credentials? Double check the schools he/she went to? You see where I'm going. There is a consensus amongst the scientific, medical, and yes political community that agrees the vaccines are safe. To suggest that we're all wrong, and that a small few are correct... it begs the question, why?
To give you an idea why your stance is controversial is because for starters is does go against the majority... which isn't necessarily to say it's absolutely correct but look at what we're talking about here. A vaccination against a deadly virus. A person voluntarily not wanting to get it is obviously going to cause controversy because it doesn't make a lot of sense to said majority.
Since you took the time to write out this post, I will take the time to respond.
To your first point, that is correct. There are so many unknowns currently around this thing I could not imagine taking it now, seeing as how I haven't already. Take the post right below yours from Kat, they are now saying if you took the J&J vaccine, a booster from Pfizer and Moderna may be needed. So let's say I was considering the J&J, is that telling me that when I get the J&J I might as well schedule my booster for one of the mRNA's as well? And, if I was considering the Pfizer or Moderna, should I go ahead and plan for three shots knowing the first two might not be that effective? Does that make sense? And yes, I do not feel that looking at the data and yes I know there are outliers, my demographic doesn't carry a great risk from the virus. But let's say the virus continues to mutate, which I have read actually weakens the severity but I digress, and years from now actually have some true data on the vaccines, then I will consider it at that time.
As someone who is vaccinated, does it worry you that you may be taking shots every 6-8 months?
As far as your pillars of prevention, I do not really do any of those things. Not sure why that is the most important piece of info you want from me, but there is your answer.
As far as what burden of proof I need to take the vaccine, I honestly have no idea.
One thing that has always gotten to me, and one of the arguments made here is how I can infect other people. As I have stated, the only immediate people of concern to me are my parents, both mid 60's and both who have passed on the vaccine as well. We all understand the risks associated with it at this point, correct? And if the vaccine is as good as you and the experts say it is, why are you worried about me? Now I know the answer that some will give, but in people like me it is going to mutate therefore making my vaccine less effective. Maybe. Maybe not. It seems the vaccinated catch, carry, and transmit the virus as it is, so can it not mutate in them as well?
Everything has risks, yes. Catching covid carries a risk. Getting the vaccine carries a risk. Not sure where we are going there.
Honestly, I am here because I feel like this board thinks everyone who is unvaccinated walks around daily with MAGA hats on flags waving on the back of their truck. I am not that. Yes, I voted for DJT is 2020, not in 2016. That should not affect any of the arguments I make. I tend to think I am moderate in my political leanings. I would guess there are a lot more like me here, they are just smart enough not to come in here and engage.
Hope I answered everything and thanks for the post!
I don’t know enough about nor have I done enough research to comment on death statistics and the reasons for them but I do know that 33 years ago my sister died of cervical cancer and the death certificate listed cardiac arrest as the cause. No, she died because cancer depleted her organ function so maybe they finally fixed that nonsense and say what actually instigated the death in the first place. They did the same with AIDS patients…died of pneumonia listed on the certificate but it certainly started with HIV crushing their immune systems.
Death is death and if we know that 600,000 more people died last year then the year before then you tell me why that occurred if not by covid related issues.
Sometimes the pure ignorance of people is offensive.
I’m sorry to hear about the death of your sister; I’m sure it still hurts, even after all these years.
When death certificates are completed it’s important for public health purposes to get all relevant information, as the data is compiled and reviewed and conclusions are drawn that affect many aspects of the health care system.
I obviously can’t comment on a specific death, but in a situation like what you describe the immediate cause of death is the cardiac arrest or the pneumonia. However, contributing causes are also listed, including cancer or AIDS. Finally, other conditions that are present but not felt to contribute to the death are also listed, as with enough data some previously unrecognized links can be drawn.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
“Especially with the delta variant becoming a lot more aggressive and seeing another spike, it was a good time to do it,” he said in an interview. “When you talk to people who run hospitals, in New Orleans or other states, 90% of people in hospital with delta variant have not been vaccinated. That’s another signal the vaccine works.”
He's close. A good time to do it was 2-3 months ago to prevent the Delta variant from gaining a strong foothold in the US, but alas here we are. Better late than never.
Has anyone fact checked this? Kat? Mrussel? I do not want misinformation to be spread here.
Edited to add a link to comb through the data which clearly shows all the young, unvaccinated people that she has had to see. It shows 396 covid related deaths between the ages of 25-49.... since the pandemic began.... IN THE WHOLE STATE! Fact Check says, most likely rubbish!
I don’t know enough about nor have I done enough research to comment on death statistics and the reasons for them but I do know that 33 years ago my sister died of cervical cancer and the death certificate listed cardiac arrest as the cause. No, she died because cancer depleted her organ function so maybe they finally fixed that nonsense and say what actually instigated the death in the first place. They did the same with AIDS patients…died of pneumonia listed on the certificate but it certainly started with HIV crushing their immune systems.
Death is death and if we know that 600,000 more people died last year then the year before then you tell me why that occurred if not by covid related issues.
Sometimes the pure ignorance of people is offensive.
I’m sorry to hear about the death of your sister; I’m sure it still hurts, even after all these years.
When death certificates are completed it’s important for public health purposes to get all relevant information, as the data is compiled and reviewed and conclusions are drawn that affect many aspects of the health care system.
I obviously can’t comment on a specific death, but in a situation like what you describe the immediate cause of death is the cardiac arrest or the pneumonia. However, contributing causes are also listed, including cancer or AIDS. Finally, other conditions that are present but not felt to contribute to the death are also listed, as with enough data some previously unrecognized links can be drawn.
Thanks so much for your condolences, yes I think about and miss her every day!
And thank you for the death certificate information which makes perfect sense now that you’ve explained. I trust what you post completely and appreciate any information you give us. And I admire your ability to remain calm. If what’s in my mind came out in a post I’d be banned for life!!
“Especially with the delta variant becoming a lot more aggressive and seeing another spike, it was a good time to do it,” he said in an interview. “When you talk to people who run hospitals, in New Orleans or other states, 90% of people in hospital with delta variant have not been vaccinated. That’s another signal the vaccine works.”
He's close. A good time to do it was 2-3 months ago to prevent the Delta variant from gaining a strong foothold in the US, but alas here we are. Better late than never.
Has anyone fact checked this? Kat? Mrussel? I do not want misinformation to be spread here.
Edited to add a link to comb through the data which clearly shows all the young, unvaccinated people that she has had to see. It shows 396 covid related deaths between the ages of 25-49.... since the pandemic began.... IN THE WHOLE STATE! Fact Check says, most likely rubbish!
5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
According to the spreadsheet provided by Public Health Scotland; which includes the quantity of deaths by type of vaccine and the date they occurred, 1,877 deaths have been due to the Pfizer mRNA jab, 3,643 deaths have been due to the AstraZeneca viral vector jab, and 2 deaths have been due to the Moderna mRNA jab.
This equates to an average of 920 deaths occurring every month due to the Covid-19 vaccines in Scotland alone. Outnumbering the average number of people who have died of Covid-19 in Scotland by 866 per month.
Also, closer to home... The number was 6,000 last week.
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets—which has caused deaths.
This is the classic correlation, not causation situation. From what is here, you can not declare that the cause of death within 28 days was the vaccine. People die all the time, every day. Scotland's vax rate is over 50%. So comparing deaths of vaccinated people to COVID 19 deaths (which this paper did), is the very definition of misinformation. It's misleading, unclear and leads people to draw unsubstantiated conclusions.
Were I the moderator, I would take down this post or at least mark it as misinformation. @gvn2fly1421 - this is a serious question. Do you critically think about what you post before you post it, or are you just grabbing links? How could you think this isn't misleading?
And you see no problem with how covid deaths were counted, correct? 30-60 days after a positive test if you passed away it was counted as a covid death. You see no issue with that, yet would like to label the links above as misinformation? I posted numerous links of gunshot victims, motorcycle crashes, etc. all counted as covid deaths, yet you are ok with that because it fits the narrative your party would like it to fit.
Okay so you're arguing that COVID isn't dangerous, and the path to that argument is spreading other misinformation. Do I have that right?
For me, obviously one of the vaccine hesitant, I am arguing that there is a risk for me either way, catching the virus or getting the vaccine. Now, I feel both of those risks would be small to me, considering I am a relatively healthy under 40 male. I have chosen to forgo the vaccine until we have some real, long term data showing me that the vaccine is truly "safe and effective".
Imagine with me something so "safe and effective" that we have to be told over and over again how safe and effective it is. The safety is obviously up in the air with all the side effects and possible death related to it, and the effectiveness is questionable as well seeing as how all of these people are catching the virus and still spreading it and still having their lives disrupted.
And because I have been here numerous times on this board, I know what comes next... But the vaccine will reduce the symptoms of covid. Right, the same virus that most people do not even know they have. Those symptoms. Again, I think most on this board think if you get covid you are either going to the hospital for an extended trip or going to die, both of which are so low odds of happening, let's say the same chance of having something bad happen when taking the vaccine, that I personally would rather take my chance with the virus.
I honestly do not see why my stance is so controversial to the point of being called names. And also, imagine wanting to be the keeper of what data/information gets published and what doesn't... Yikes, now that is scary...
Hello There!
Hopefully it doesn't caption all of the quotes here.. just your recent one. I have a few questions and comments about you. Before we go there, I haven't read other threads so if people are mocking you or insulting you, then that's not cool in my opinion... but at the same time I can understand where they may be coming from (I'll get to that later)
If I understand you correctly... you want to wait until there is more information or proof, then you may consider the vaccine. At the same time, you also don't believe the virus is dangerous enough and so you'll risk getting it as you are young and healthy.
Biggest question I would ask you is this: Will you continue to follow the three pillars of prevention as I call them: 1: Sanitize 2: Mask 3: Distance ?? Will you continue to do those things? That's the most important thing I want to know from you.
Next question is: What is your threshold of proof? Like at what point would you say "OK, I'm sold, vaccine works." And I would mention that from what I understand in USA in particular is that you have an abundance of people contracting the virus and some being hospitalized, all of whom are un-vaccinated. Like, does that concrete information register enough to sway you towards getting the vaccine? Perhaps you will pounce on my word "all." Ok, call it, 98%, 95%. Still very, very high.
A point I would like to mention with regards to what you said about risk. Getting COVID and getting the vaccine both do come with risks, yes. My arm was sore for a couple days. I know some people who were sick for a day or so. Friend of mine couldn't sleep because of 'chills' from the vaccine. My understanding is that getting the virus is much more risky than getting the vaccine. Girl at work was sick for a month. Family member hospitalized for a week. Family members of friends literally died. But the other thing and this goes to my first question, do you understand that the difference between the two 'risks' here is that while both affect you personally, the other could affect other people you come into contact with? Granted, the risk is low to contract.. but I mean... lots of dead people, lots of sick people, businesses done, industries in the toilet... etc. etc.
Final thought here... life amongst other people is all about trust. If you drive on the road, you're putting your life in other people's hands. You've never met them. You don't know how 'trained' they are at driving... but I bet you still drive. Ever been on a plane? Literally flying thousands of feet in the air in a tin can. Did you meet the pilot? Verify his/her credentials? Double check the schools he/she went to? You see where I'm going. There is a consensus amongst the scientific, medical, and yes political community that agrees the vaccines are safe. To suggest that we're all wrong, and that a small few are correct... it begs the question, why?
To give you an idea why your stance is controversial is because for starters is does go against the majority... which isn't necessarily to say it's absolutely correct but look at what we're talking about here. A vaccination against a deadly virus. A person voluntarily not wanting to get it is obviously going to cause controversy because it doesn't make a lot of sense to said majority.
Since you took the time to write out this post, I will take the time to respond.
To your first point, that is correct. There are so many unknowns currently around this thing I could not imagine taking it now, seeing as how I haven't already. Take the post right below yours from Kat, they are now saying if you took the J&J vaccine, a booster from Pfizer and Moderna may be needed. So let's say I was considering the J&J, is that telling me that when I get the J&J I might as well schedule my booster for one of the mRNA's as well? And, if I was considering the Pfizer or Moderna, should I go ahead and plan for three shots knowing the first two might not be that effective? Does that make sense? And yes, I do not feel that looking at the data and yes I know there are outliers, my demographic doesn't carry a great risk from the virus. But let's say the virus continues to mutate, which I have read actually weakens the severity but I digress, and years from now actually have some true data on the vaccines, then I will consider it at that time.
As someone who is vaccinated, does it worry you that you may be taking shots every 6-8 months?
As far as your pillars of prevention, I do not really do any of those things. Not sure why that is the most important piece of info you want from me, but there is your answer.
As far as what burden of proof I need to take the vaccine, I honestly have no idea.
One thing that has always gotten to me, and one of the arguments made here is how I can infect other people. As I have stated, the only immediate people of concern to me are my parents, both mid 60's and both who have passed on the vaccine as well. We all understand the risks associated with it at this point, correct? And if the vaccine is as good as you and the experts say it is, why are you worried about me? Now I know the answer that some will give, but in people like me it is going to mutate therefore making my vaccine less effective. Maybe. Maybe not. It seems the vaccinated catch, carry, and transmit the virus as it is, so can it not mutate in them as well?
Everything has risks, yes. Catching covid carries a risk. Getting the vaccine carries a risk. Not sure where we are going there.
Honestly, I am here because I feel like this board thinks everyone who is unvaccinated walks around daily with MAGA hats on flags waving on the back of their truck. I am not that. Yes, I voted for DJT is 2020, not in 2016. That should not affect any of the arguments I make. I tend to think I am moderate in my political leanings. I would guess there are a lot more like me here, they are just smart enough not to come in here and engage.
Hope I answered everything and thanks for the post!
Thank you for your response. I'll answer your question first... does it worry me that I might have to take 6-8 more shots? No, not even a little bit. And if I may elaborate on that a bit.... If all I have to do is go to a facility to get a shot in my arm 6-8 times to prevent death, prevent illness, prevent hardships on the health care system, hardships on the economy, then yes, that's a pretty easy duty.
That question alone is indicative of the complete ideological differences between us. That, and your vote for Trump. Which... to me affects any and all arguments you make contrary to what you think. You're likely over there saying "Why is that?" And my answer is: "Because it proves your judgement."
In these two posts you've shown me a couple things that obviously you don't agree with. But ultimately you're an ignorant, selfish person. Stands to reason why you would vote for another ignorant, and selfish person.
You won't get vaccinated. You won't wear a mask. You won't maintain social distance. Like correct me I'm wrong here... you are saying, openly, that you won't take any of the recommended precautions during a global deadly pandemic. And you voted for Trump.
I take back what I said about people insulting you. And that it's not cool what they're doing. What you're doing is exponentially worse. And for that, you're 10-ply, bud.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
“Especially with the delta variant becoming a lot more aggressive and seeing another spike, it was a good time to do it,” he said in an interview. “When you talk to people who run hospitals, in New Orleans or other states, 90% of people in hospital with delta variant have not been vaccinated. That’s another signal the vaccine works.”
He's close. A good time to do it was 2-3 months ago to prevent the Delta variant from gaining a strong foothold in the US, but alas here we are. Better late than never.
Has anyone fact checked this? Kat? Mrussel? I do not want misinformation to be spread here.
Edited to add a link to comb through the data which clearly shows all the young, unvaccinated people that she has had to see. It shows 396 covid related deaths between the ages of 25-49.... since the pandemic began.... IN THE WHOLE STATE! Fact Check says, most likely rubbish!
Give her a call. Ask her yourself. Why the age qualification? Does she work on a 25-49 only floor/ward? Odd. Does everyone she treat die? Odder still. Might as well stay home if you get sick and leave the beds for the gun and motorcycle accident victims. Laughable.
I don’t know enough about nor have I done enough research to comment on death statistics and the reasons for them but I do know that 33 years ago my sister died of cervical cancer and the death certificate listed cardiac arrest as the cause. No, she died because cancer depleted her organ function so maybe they finally fixed that nonsense and say what actually instigated the death in the first place. They did the same with AIDS patients…died of pneumonia listed on the certificate but it certainly started with HIV crushing their immune systems.
Death is death and if we know that 600,000 more people died last year then the year before then you tell me why that occurred if not by covid related issues.
Sometimes the pure ignorance of people is offensive.
My mother died of cancer almost three years ago and her death certificate lists her death as "natural causes."
“Especially with the delta variant becoming a lot more aggressive and seeing another spike, it was a good time to do it,” he said in an interview. “When you talk to people who run hospitals, in New Orleans or other states, 90% of people in hospital with delta variant have not been vaccinated. That’s another signal the vaccine works.”
He's close. A good time to do it was 2-3 months ago to prevent the Delta variant from gaining a strong foothold in the US, but alas here we are. Better late than never.
“You kind of go into it thinking, ‘Okay, I’m not going to feel bad for this person, because they make their own choice,’” Cobia said. “But then you actually see them, you see them face to face, and it really changes your whole perspective, because they’re still just a person that thinks that they made the best decision that they could with the information that they have, and all the misinformation that’s out there.
Comments
On February 14th of 2020, the DJIA was at ~29,000. By March 20th it had went all the way down to ~19,000. It is currently at 34,700. So remind me again how I am being dense?
Two things, one being if you are close to retirement, then I get the angst. I truly do. But, me being no financial advisor (or maybe I am) if you are close to retirement I might have you in something a little less risky. The second thing, how can you not look at those numbers above and not see a buying opportunity for the ages?
Also, who truly made out during this last year....
https://www.businessinsider.com/billionaires-net-worth-increases-coronavirus-pandemic-2020-7
How billionaires saw their net worth increase by half a trillion dollars during the pandemic
Again, this is real causal data that shows COVID was real and has/had a meaningful negative impact on life expectancy, mortality rates, etc. If COVID is overstated and just BS, why would these numbers continue to represent the opposite?
Death certificates are not filed in the system until outstanding test results are in and the information is as complete as possible. By the time a record gets to the vital records system, “it is as close to perfect as it's going to get,” Webster says.
A physician, medical examiner or coroner fills out the cause of mortality on the death certificate. That specialist is instructed to include only conditions that caused or contributed to death, Anderson says. One field lists the sequence of events leading to the death. “What we're really trying to get at is the condition or disease that started the chain of events leading to the death,” Anderson says. “For COVID-19, that might be something like acute respiratory distress due to pneumonia due to COVID-19.” A second part of the certificate lists other conditions that may have contributed to the death yet were not part of the sequence of events that led up to it, he says. These are called comorbidities, and although they can be contributing factors, they cannot be directly involved in the chain of cause and effect that ended in death. Medical conditions such as diabetes or heart disease are common comorbidities, and they can make a person more vulnerable to the coronavirus, Anderson says, “but the fact is: they're not dying from that preexisting condition.”
“When we ask if COVID killed somebody, it means ‘Did they die sooner than they would have if they didn't have the virus?’” Lessler says. Even a person with a potentially life-shortening condition such as heart disease may have lived another five, 10 or more years, had they not become infected with COVID-19.
Later in the article:
The idea that a death certificate with ailments listed in addition to COVID-19 means that the person did not really die from the virus is simply false, Anderson says.
The surveillance and vital statistics data provide a pretty good picture of how many deaths are attributable to the coronavirus, but they do not capture all of them, and that is where the final line of evidence come in: excess deaths. They are the number of deaths that occur above and beyond the historical pattern for that time period, says Steven Woolf, a physician and population health researcher at the Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine.
Debunking the False Claim That COVID Death Counts Are Inflated - Scientific AmericanThis had been explained in the previous thread, since closed, and you chose to either ignore the explanation and the evidence backing that explanation or just continue to post conspiracy theories and misinformation. What are your thoughts on the death count in India being closer to 3-4 million? All motorcycle and gun accidents?
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David Oliver: Mistruths and misunderstandings about covid-19 death numbers | The BMJ
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"The increase in drug overdose deaths was also a factor in declining life expectancy. More than 93,000 people died from drug overdoses in 2020. That's the highest number reported in a single year. Other causes of death contributing to the decline were increases in homicide and deaths from diabetes and chronic liver disease."
It seems like I read somewhere that the average age of covid death is higher than the average life expectancy. May try to find that later.
I do not understand how you think it is reasonable that I test positive for the virus on January 1, then die on Febraury 28th to an automobile accident and that should count as a covid death.
India's COVID-19 death toll could be 10 times the official count, research suggests
The report released Tuesday estimated excess deaths — the gap between those recorded and those that would have been expected — to be 3.4 million to 4.7 million between January 2020 and June 2021. It said an accurate figure may "prove elusive" but the true death toll "is likely to be an order of magnitude greater than the official count."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/india-covid-death-toll-1.6109639
Pesky excess deaths.... maybe we can blame drug overdoses?
Hopefully it doesn't caption all of the quotes here.. just your recent one. I have a few questions and comments about you. Before we go there, I haven't read other threads so if people are mocking you or insulting you, then that's not cool in my opinion... but at the same time I can understand where they may be coming from (I'll get to that later)
If I understand you correctly... you want to wait until there is more information or proof, then you may consider the vaccine. At the same time, you also don't believe the virus is dangerous enough and so you'll risk getting it as you are young and healthy.
Biggest question I would ask you is this: Will you continue to follow the three pillars of prevention as I call them: 1: Sanitize 2: Mask 3: Distance ?? Will you continue to do those things? That's the most important thing I want to know from you.
Next question is: What is your threshold of proof? Like at what point would you say "OK, I'm sold, vaccine works." And I would mention that from what I understand in USA in particular is that you have an abundance of people contracting the virus and some being hospitalized, all of whom are un-vaccinated. Like, does that concrete information register enough to sway you towards getting the vaccine? Perhaps you will pounce on my word "all." Ok, call it, 98%, 95%. Still very, very high.
A point I would like to mention with regards to what you said about risk. Getting COVID and getting the vaccine both do come with risks, yes. My arm was sore for a couple days. I know some people who were sick for a day or so. Friend of mine couldn't sleep because of 'chills' from the vaccine. My understanding is that getting the virus is much more risky than getting the vaccine. Girl at work was sick for a month. Family member hospitalized for a week. Family members of friends literally died. But the other thing and this goes to my first question, do you understand that the difference between the two 'risks' here is that while both affect you personally, the other could affect other people you come into contact with? Granted, the risk is low to contract.. but I mean... lots of dead people, lots of sick people, businesses done, industries in the toilet... etc. etc.
Final thought here... life amongst other people is all about trust. If you drive on the road, you're putting your life in other people's hands. You've never met them. You don't know how 'trained' they are at driving... but I bet you still drive. Ever been on a plane? Literally flying thousands of feet in the air in a tin can. Did you meet the pilot? Verify his/her credentials? Double check the schools he/she went to? You see where I'm going. There is a consensus amongst the scientific, medical, and yes political community that agrees the vaccines are safe. To suggest that we're all wrong, and that a small few are correct... it begs the question, why?
To give you an idea why your stance is controversial is because for starters is does go against the majority... which isn't necessarily to say it's absolutely correct but look at what we're talking about here. A vaccination against a deadly virus. A person voluntarily not wanting to get it is obviously going to cause controversy because it doesn't make a lot of sense to said majority.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
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Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
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Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
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Dr. Vin Gupta encourages J&J vaccine recipients to get a Pfizer or Moderna booster
Key Points
--CNBC’s Meg Tirrell spoke to the lead author of the study who told her that the study suggests, “one should at least consider a second vaccination, a second shot” with the J&J vaccine, either of the same vaccine, or one from Pfizer or Moderna.
continued at:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/20/dr-vin-gupta-encourages-jj-vaccine-recipients-to-get-a-pfizer-or-moderna-booster.html
https://www.nola.com/news/coronavirus/article_f569bf58-e970-11eb-8456-7ba1aef698cd.html
A good time to do it was 2-3 months ago to prevent the Delta variant from gaining a strong foothold in the US, but alas here we are. Better late than never.
What better late than never might look like:
To your first point, that is correct. There are so many unknowns currently around this thing I could not imagine taking it now, seeing as how I haven't already. Take the post right below yours from Kat, they are now saying if you took the J&J vaccine, a booster from Pfizer and Moderna may be needed. So let's say I was considering the J&J, is that telling me that when I get the J&J I might as well schedule my booster for one of the mRNA's as well? And, if I was considering the Pfizer or Moderna, should I go ahead and plan for three shots knowing the first two might not be that effective? Does that make sense? And yes, I do not feel that looking at the data and yes I know there are outliers, my demographic doesn't carry a great risk from the virus. But let's say the virus continues to mutate, which I have read actually weakens the severity but I digress, and years from now actually have some true data on the vaccines, then I will consider it at that time.
As someone who is vaccinated, does it worry you that you may be taking shots every 6-8 months?
As far as your pillars of prevention, I do not really do any of those things. Not sure why that is the most important piece of info you want from me, but there is your answer.
As far as what burden of proof I need to take the vaccine, I honestly have no idea.
One thing that has always gotten to me, and one of the arguments made here is how I can infect other people. As I have stated, the only immediate people of concern to me are my parents, both mid 60's and both who have passed on the vaccine as well. We all understand the risks associated with it at this point, correct? And if the vaccine is as good as you and the experts say it is, why are you worried about me? Now I know the answer that some will give, but in people like me it is going to mutate therefore making my vaccine less effective. Maybe. Maybe not. It seems the vaccinated catch, carry, and transmit the virus as it is, so can it not mutate in them as well?
Everything has risks, yes. Catching covid carries a risk. Getting the vaccine carries a risk. Not sure where we are going there.
Honestly, I am here because I feel like this board thinks everyone who is unvaccinated walks around daily with MAGA hats on flags waving on the back of their truck. I am not that. Yes, I voted for DJT is 2020, not in 2016. That should not affect any of the arguments I make. I tend to think I am moderate in my political leanings. I would guess there are a lot more like me here, they are just smart enough not to come in here and engage.
Hope I answered everything and thanks for the post!
Edited to add a link to comb through the data which clearly shows all the young, unvaccinated people that she has had to see. It shows 396 covid related deaths between the ages of 25-49.... since the pandemic began.... IN THE WHOLE STATE! Fact Check says, most likely rubbish!
https://bamatracker.com/
That question alone is indicative of the complete ideological differences between us. That, and your vote for Trump. Which... to me affects any and all arguments you make contrary to what you think. You're likely over there saying "Why is that?" And my answer is: "Because it proves your judgement."
In these two posts you've shown me a couple things that obviously you don't agree with. But ultimately you're an ignorant, selfish person. Stands to reason why you would vote for another ignorant, and selfish person.
You won't get vaccinated. You won't wear a mask. You won't maintain social distance. Like correct me I'm wrong here... you are saying, openly, that you won't take any of the recommended precautions during a global deadly pandemic. And you voted for Trump.
I take back what I said about people insulting you. And that it's not cool what they're doing. What you're doing is exponentially worse. And for that, you're 10-ply, bud.
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
Dr. Brytney Cobia, MD | Birmingham, AL | Healthgrades
'I'm sorry, but it's too late': Doctor says hospitalized COVID-19 patients asking for vaccines | TheHill
New deaths reported per day in Alabama
At least 11,462 have been reported since Feb. 29, 2020.
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New reported cases per day in Alabama
At least 563,943 have been reported since Feb. 29, 2020.
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My mother died of cancer almost three years ago and her death certificate lists her death as "natural causes."
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“You kind of go into it thinking, ‘Okay, I’m not going to feel bad for this person, because they make their own choice,’” Cobia said. “But then you actually see them, you see them face to face, and it really changes your whole perspective, because they’re still just a person that thinks that they made the best decision that they could with the information that they have, and all the misinformation that’s out there.
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