Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name. What is insulting about the Chiefs?
again, where does it end?
The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans. And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?" They really are similar words that way. It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close.
So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
Please don't leave out Fighting Irish. As someone who is a quarter Irish this always offended me. I would like to support a name change to the Weasels. Or, Dickwads. Tools would be acceptable, also.
Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name. What is insulting about the Chiefs?
again, where does it end?
The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans. And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?" They really are similar words that way. It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close.
So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
Padres…gots to go.
Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would love to see a game in San Diego.
I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium. Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies. It's a nice park.
Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous. Have fun!
Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name. What is insulting about the Chiefs?
again, where does it end?
The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans. And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?" They really are similar words that way. It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close.
So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
Padres…gots to go.
Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would love to see a game in San Diego.
I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium. Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies. It's a nice park.
Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous. Have fun!
Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name. What is insulting about the Chiefs?
again, where does it end?
The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans. And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?" They really are similar words that way. It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close.
So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
Padres…gots to go.
Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would love to see a game in San Diego.
I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium. Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies. It's a nice park.
Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous. Have fun!
Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name. What is insulting about the Chiefs?
again, where does it end?
The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans. And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?" They really are similar words that way. It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close.
So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
Padres…gots to go.
Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would love to see a game in San Diego.
I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium. Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies. It's a nice park.
Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous. Have fun!
Yeah, he's 19 and thinks he's invincible. Idiot.
19? “You’re on your own; I am going to the game.”
I love Dan Diego. That’s a nice ballpark, too.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
And the mentality behind it. What does this remind you of?
A Braves game? Now we want to get rid of the chop? I can’t.
OH CRAP, haha! That was on the page of Chief's photos for some reason. I thought they were doing some tomahawk throw thing or whatever. Yes, I admit it, "I'm dumb, I think I dumb..."
dumb de dumb dumb dumb!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name. What is insulting about the Chiefs?
again, where does it end?
The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans. And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?" They really are similar words that way. It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close.
So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
Please don't leave out Fighting Irish. As someone who is a quarter Irish this always offended me. I would like to support a name change to the Weasels. Or, Dickwads. Tools would be acceptable, also.
That Chiefs story is why I don’t a lot of weight on the original intent. Well it appears that the intent was pure, if you will, that no longer matters since they have handled everything through stereotypes since.
The logo they use in their very first season in KC makes me question that story anyway.
Name Scrutiny Extends From Redskins To Chiefs, But Kansas City’s Mascot Has A Different Origin Story
With Washington’s NFL team officially changing its nickname from the Redskins, Kansas City’s team name of the Chiefs has come under scrutiny.
That name, however, was not derived from Native Americans. The Chiefs were named after former Kansas City mayor H. Roe Bartle, who helped the city land a pro football team in the early 1960s.
The franchise, of course, has adopted Native American themes since then. Fans — some dressed in Native American attire — do the tomahawk chop in Arrowhead Stadium while Warpaint the horse gallops after touchdowns.
One can make a strong case that those franchise staples offensively depict Native Americans as “savages” and should be changed.
The mere nickname, though, has more innocuous roots. According to the Chiefs media guide, the Chiefs moniker was selected in honor of Bartle, who helped convince Lamar Hunt to move the Dallas Texans to Kansas City, as part of a name-the-team contest.
Bartle, who was nearing the end of his second and final term as mayor when he persuaded Hunt, had tried to land pro football in Kansas City at least two other times during the AFL days.
The mayor was nicknamed “the Chief” not only because of his 6-3, 300-pound-plus girth, but also his work with the Boy Scouts of America.
After serving in the military during World War I and getting his law degree from the University of Chattanooga, Bartle started as a scout executive in Wyoming, following a training session in Kansas City. The number of scouts in his Wyoming area grew tenfold.
After Bartle and Hunt initially met in Dallas, only Bartle and his chauffeur knew that Hunt was scouting the Kansas City location because he didn’t want to compete with the Dallas Cowboys for fans.
Hunt surreptitiously checked into Kansas City’s Muehlebach Hotel under an assumed name, and when Bartle had to introduce him, he called him “Mr. Lamar,” according to Matt Fulks’ 100 Things Chiefs Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die.
(Disclosure: I am an editor at Triumph Books, the publisher of 100 Things Chiefs Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die.)
Bartle’s two four-year, mayoral terms ended in 1963. Hunt officially announced his team was moving from Dallas to Kansas City that year, and the Chiefs name was established in May.
During the Chiefs’ franchise history, their Native American traditions have come under scrutiny as well.
In 1992 the team stopped playing the tomahawk chop war chant at its home games. Fans, however, still sang the tune and did the arm motion before the franchise reinstituted it shortly thereafter.
Vahe Gregorian, the columnist for The Kansas City Star, suggested rebranding the Chiefs name as a way to memorialize the six Kansas City firefighters who died in an explosion in 1988.
And the City of Fountains actually has a prominent fountain located at the south end of Penn Valley Park, which features two bronze sculptures of firefighters.
Less than two miles from that fountain is Bartle Hall. The major convention center in downtown Kansas City, Mo. is named in honor of the Chief who passed away on May 9, 1974.
The Chiefs are named for former Kansas City mayor Harold Roe Bartle, a White man who impersonated Native American culture.
Before becoming mayor, Bartle was actively involved in leadership of the Boy Scouts of America. In 1925, he created the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, a scouting organization that drew on Native American heritage and customs.
Bartle was not a Native American, but claimed he was "inducted into a local tribute of the Arapaho people," according to Mohawk journalist Vincent Schilling. Bartle was called "Lone Bear," and later came to be colloquially known as "Chief."
When I was in the Boy Scouts I was in Order of the Arrow. It was a service organization that emphasized a lot of Native American traditions and beliefs. I signed up to be a traditional dancer. I made my own costume, dressed up and performed for various troops and other organizations. I learned a lot, it was fun and very respectful. I don’t see anything wrong with what bartle or myself did.
I even remember meeting with the Koshare dance team from Colorado, they were the freaking best out there. They showed us pointers on how to dance and what to add to our costume. They thought it was great that we were sharing their culture with the world.
When I was in the Boy Scouts I was in Order of the Arrow. It was a service organization that emphasized a lot of Native American traditions and beliefs. I signed up to be a traditional dancer. I made my own costume, dressed up and performed for various troops and other organizations. I learned a lot, it was fun and very respectful. I don’t see anything wrong with what bartle or myself did.
were any native americans there to teach you the hows and whys? or just a bunch of white guys who thought they knew?
white children should not be performing traditional native american dances. period.
you may believe it's being respectful. you may believe it's "paying homage". these traditions and dances are sacred to them. we don't just get to co-opt these traditions in the name of entertainment.
Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...
Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???
Not sure who you are directing that at but in my opinion some of the names are respectful. I don't think Braves, Chiefs, Blackhawks, etc., are disrespectful or racist. I realize that the Indians were treated horribly but I think modern day Americans realize that.
To me it is similar to Minutemen, Patriots, Musketeers, Pirates, etc.
Of course I could be horribly off base
edit: and clearly the tomahawk chop or chanting is inappropriate
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
When I was in the Boy Scouts I was in Order of the Arrow. It was a service organization that emphasized a lot of Native American traditions and beliefs. I signed up to be a traditional dancer. I made my own costume, dressed up and performed for various troops and other organizations. I learned a lot, it was fun and very respectful. I don’t see anything wrong with what bartle or myself did.
were any native americans there to teach you the hows and whys? or just a bunch of white guys who thought they knew?
white children should not be performing traditional native american dances. period.
you may believe it's being respectful. you may believe it's "paying homage". these traditions and dances are sacred to them. we don't just get to co-opt these traditions in the name of entertainment.
If we were being respectful and authentic then why not? Like I said, we had Native Americans tell us that it was cool that we were showcasing their culture and traditions. Did a native american teach us? no. One of my kids like to break dance, should I yell him to stop since a black person didn't teach him?
Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...
Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???
Not sure who you are directing that at but in my opinion some of the names are respectful. I don't think Braves, Chiefs, Blackhawks, etc., are disrespectful or racist. I realize that the Indians were treated horribly but I think modern day Americans realize that.
To me it is similar to Minutemen, Patriots, Musketeers, Pirates, etc.
Of course I could be horribly off base
edit: and clearly the tomahawk chop or chanting is inappropriate
Read some of the comments here...
I do not know much about those other groups you mentioned...but the settlers committed one of the world's largest genocides in the Americas and yet these same settlers made it a point of mocking indigenous peoples. They are just sports teams...nothing more. You can find a nonoffensive name and mascot...
When I was in the Boy Scouts I was in Order of the Arrow. It was a service organization that emphasized a lot of Native American traditions and beliefs. I signed up to be a traditional dancer. I made my own costume, dressed up and performed for various troops and other organizations. I learned a lot, it was fun and very respectful. I don’t see anything wrong with what bartle or myself did.
were any native americans there to teach you the hows and whys? or just a bunch of white guys who thought they knew?
white children should not be performing traditional native american dances. period.
you may believe it's being respectful. you may believe it's "paying homage". these traditions and dances are sacred to them. we don't just get to co-opt these traditions in the name of entertainment.
If we were being respectful and authentic then why not? Like I said, we had Native Americans tell us that it was cool that we were showcasing their culture and traditions. Did a native american teach us? no. One of my kids like to break dance, should I yell him to stop since a black person didn't teach him?
breakdancing, in my opinion, doesn't fall under ceremonial/traditional dance of Africans. you can try to cherry pick any singular type of example, but the crux of it is, there is no "one size fits all" answer to prove your point. nor is there to mine.
turn this around for a second. imagine if history were the opposite. native americans travelled across the ocean in search of, say, brazil. they landed in europe instead. but they didn't give two shits. 400 years later they still called them brazilians. set up Brazilian Residential Schools to indoctrinate them into the native american way of life, murdering thousands of them in the process.
they made sports teams that mocked christianity, with teams called The Bishops or The Popes and had images of them raping boys in their sleep and murdering all those who opposed the church, the fans in the stands holding up bible replicas over their heads, calling to the "football gods" to help their team win. bringing crosses and throwing holy water on opposing teams/fans.
sure, The Bishops on its own isn't offensive. But the connotation would be. I highly doubt you'd be so blasé saying "it's just a name".
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
no one is a big "what if" person if it blows up their narrative.
this is just a ludicrous comment, dude. and kind of offensive as to the actual plight of real people at the hands of other real people.
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
I don't quite get the concerns over changing other names or practices if as a society/culture that is where things lead. The question of, "Where does it stop/end?" seems pointless because it stops/ends when we as a society decide it does. Habits and routines typically become bad if they remain in place too long. In most cases, the only issue with the change is that people don't like the next thing because it breaks from the tradition they have known. In 20 years, no one will give a shit they went from Indians to Guardians besides the die hards and that will eventually pass when they pass. Sports franchises move and change names all the time and I can't recall a single time when anyone was like, "Hey, what a great name they chose!" It's mostly complaining by the fanbase or a half hearted acceptance of "That's not too bad."
If something becomes offensive or culturally outdated, it still seems to take decades for a change to happen anyway, unless it leads to violence or mass public outcry. I mean, how long did we put up with Confederate flags before it started to become more of a negative connotation? Yet, they still aren't universally decried.
Just the things I can think of from the 80's and 90's that have become taboo and uncouth makes me cringe on what was allowed in my brief lifetime. That clip from Can't Buy Me Love (A movie I loved as a kid) alone shows how poorly some things age.
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
I think there's a big difference. I actually think natural disaster names are kind of stupid. Not "Minnesota Wild" stupid, but stupid. I don't think they need to be eliminated/banned, and while I am sure you could dig up some kook that does, that's got to be a pretty rare opinion. Similarly, Minnesota Wild is no better of a name than Minnesota Desk Chairs would be...in either case, the public pressure a team would face to get rid of it would be the same as when the 49ers dropped their one-day helmet. Not offensive; just plain bad.
I know these lines can be difficult to draw. R******s is a no-brainer. Some of the other things are grayer. Wahoo, to me anyway, is a no-brainer but some other stuff is grayer. As for Arrowhead (the logo or the stadium), I'm not fan. But any public pressure is not going to come from me either. Worse than Wild? Yes, at the very least in terms of cultural impacts/sensitivity.
I am sure people whined about political correctness in Pekin, IL, 1981, too (Warning; racial slur pops up front and center): Link.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot. Best to get rid of them all together. I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot. Best to get rid of them all together. I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
I personally don’t see it as racist, I almost look it as an honor to have a sports team named after your heritage. Maybe they could keep the name but make it more updated.
We just went through this in the town I live in, we were the Howell running rebels. Mascot was an old csa soldier lol. They updated the mascot but kept the name. No harm no foul.
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot. Best to get rid of them all together. I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
I personally don’t see it as racist, I almost look it as an honor to have a sports team named after your heritage. Maybe they could keep the name but make it more updated.
We just went through this in the town I live in, we were the Howell running rebels. Mascot was an old csa soldier lol. They updated the mascot but kept the name. No harm no foul.
Comparing rebels to Indians is not in the same universe.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot. Best to get rid of them all together. I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
I personally don’t see it as racist, I almost look it as an honor to have a sports team named after your heritage. Maybe they could keep the name but make it more updated.
We just went through this in the town I live in, we were the Howell running rebels. Mascot was an old csa soldier lol. They updated the mascot but kept the name. No harm no foul.
Comparing rebels to Indians is not in the same universe.
I m not saying it was equal, it was just an example. However “rebels” have been making headlines a lot in the past two years with regard to statues and renaming military bases.
Have their been sit downs between both sides to try to find common ground? (NFL owners and native Americans)
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot. Best to get rid of them all together. I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
I personally don’t see it as racist, I almost look it as an honor to have a sports team named after your heritage. Maybe they could keep the name but make it more updated.
We just went through this in the town I live in, we were the Howell running rebels. Mascot was an old csa soldier lol. They updated the mascot but kept the name. No harm no foul.
that's the whitewashing of it we've all been convinced to believe. the "heritage" we're "honouring" is that of a primitive, savage warrior, animal, sub-human. while historically some of that may be correct (as it was for all of us, not just aboriginals), it doesn't positively or accurately reflect their people of today.
I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name. Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little.
To me people are always going to complain about something. What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports? We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
I think there's a big difference. I actually think natural disaster names are kind of stupid. Not "Minnesota Wild" stupid, but stupid. I don't think they need to be eliminated/banned, and while I am sure you could dig up some kook that does, that's got to be a pretty rare opinion. Similarly, Minnesota Wild is no better of a name than Minnesota Desk Chairs would be...in either case, the public pressure a team would face to get rid of it would be the same as when the 49ers dropped their one-day helmet. Not offensive; just plain bad.
I know these lines can be difficult to draw. R******s is a no-brainer. Some of the other things are grayer. Wahoo, to me anyway, is a no-brainer but some other stuff is grayer. As for Arrowhead (the logo or the stadium), I'm not fan. But any public pressure is not going to come from me either. Worse than Wild? Yes, at the very least in terms of cultural impacts/sensitivity.
I am sure people whined about political correctness in Pekin, IL, 1981, too (Warning; racial slur pops up front and center): Link.
As a long time 49er fan, I agree with the helmet being hideous. I know someone who lived in Pekin after the name change, and you are correct, there were still people complaining 15 or so years after it was changed. There are probably still some.
Comments
I love Dan Diego. That’s a nice ballpark, too.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/26/us/kansas-city-chiefs-nickname-mascot-spt/index.html
The Chiefs are named for former Kansas City mayor Harold Roe Bartle, a White man who impersonated Native American culture.
Bartle was not a Native American, but claimed he was "inducted into a local tribute of the Arapaho people," according to Mohawk journalist Vincent Schilling. Bartle was called "Lone Bear," and later came to be colloquially known as "Chief."
www.headstonesband.com
white children should not be performing traditional native american dances. period.
you may believe it's being respectful. you may believe it's "paying homage". these traditions and dances are sacred to them. we don't just get to co-opt these traditions in the name of entertainment.
www.headstonesband.com
Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???
www.headstonesband.com
To me it is similar to Minutemen, Patriots, Musketeers, Pirates, etc.
Of course I could be horribly off base
edit: and clearly the tomahawk chop or chanting is inappropriate
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I do not know much about those other groups you mentioned...but the settlers committed one of the world's largest genocides in the Americas and yet these same settlers made it a point of mocking indigenous peoples. They are just sports teams...nothing more. You can find a nonoffensive name and mascot...
turn this around for a second. imagine if history were the opposite. native americans travelled across the ocean in search of, say, brazil. they landed in europe instead. but they didn't give two shits. 400 years later they still called them brazilians. set up Brazilian Residential Schools to indoctrinate them into the native american way of life, murdering thousands of them in the process.
they made sports teams that mocked christianity, with teams called The Bishops or The Popes and had images of them raping boys in their sleep and murdering all those who opposed the church, the fans in the stands holding up bible replicas over their heads, calling to the "football gods" to help their team win. bringing crosses and throwing holy water on opposing teams/fans.
sure, The Bishops on its own isn't offensive. But the connotation would be. I highly doubt you'd be so blasé saying "it's just a name".
www.headstonesband.com
You're welcome!
this is just a ludicrous comment, dude. and kind of offensive as to the actual plight of real people at the hands of other real people.
www.headstonesband.com
If something becomes offensive or culturally outdated, it still seems to take decades for a change to happen anyway, unless it leads to violence or mass public outcry. I mean, how long did we put up with Confederate flags before it started to become more of a negative connotation? Yet, they still aren't universally decried.
Just the things I can think of from the 80's and 90's that have become taboo and uncouth makes me cringe on what was allowed in my brief lifetime. That clip from Can't Buy Me Love (A movie I loved as a kid) alone shows how poorly some things age.
I know these lines can be difficult to draw. R******s is a no-brainer. Some of the other things are grayer. Wahoo, to me anyway, is a no-brainer but some other stuff is grayer. As for Arrowhead (the logo or the stadium), I'm not fan. But any public pressure is not going to come from me either. Worse than Wild? Yes, at the very least in terms of cultural impacts/sensitivity.
I am sure people whined about political correctness in Pekin, IL, 1981, too (Warning; racial slur pops up front and center): Link.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
www.headstonesband.com