Cleveland Indians to drop "Indians" from team name after 105 years

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  • mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
    Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name.  What is insulting about the Chiefs?

    again, where does it end?

    The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans.  And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?"  They really are similar words that way.  It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
    Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close. 
    So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
    Please don't leave out Fighting Irish.  As someone who is a quarter Irish this always offended me.
    I would like to support a name change to the Weasels.  Or, Dickwads.  
    Tools would be acceptable, also.

    @darwinstheory
    Am I right or am I right?
    /s


    Perhaps Tools would be most fitting? I would have suggested Fucksticks, but I think the boys of Troy have dibs on that??
    Go to fuckstick.net.  a ND fan site!
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,445
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
    Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name.  What is insulting about the Chiefs?

    again, where does it end?

    The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans.  And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?"  They really are similar words that way.  It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
    Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close. 
    So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
    Padres…gots to go. 
    Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would
    love to see a game in San Diego. 
    I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium.  Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies.  It's a nice park. 
    Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous.  Have fun!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,589
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
    Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name.  What is insulting about the Chiefs?

    again, where does it end?

    The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans.  And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?"  They really are similar words that way.  It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
    Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close. 
    So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
    Padres…gots to go. 
    Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would
    love to see a game in San Diego. 
    I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium.  Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies.  It's a nice park. 
    Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous.  Have fun!
    Yeah, he's 19 and thinks he's invincible.  Idiot. 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,445
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
    Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name.  What is insulting about the Chiefs?

    again, where does it end?

    The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans.  And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?"  They really are similar words that way.  It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
    Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close. 
    So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
    Padres…gots to go. 
    Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would
    love to see a game in San Diego. 
    I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium.  Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies.  It's a nice park. 
    Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous.  Have fun!
    Yeah, he's 19 and thinks he's invincible.  Idiot. 
    Maybe call the front desk for some extra tp.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • OnWis97OnWis97 Posts: 5,056
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
    Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name.  What is insulting about the Chiefs?

    again, where does it end?

    The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans.  And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?"  They really are similar words that way.  It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
    Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close. 
    So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
    Padres…gots to go. 
    Seriously where does it stop? Side note, I would
    love to see a game in San Diego. 
    I'm in SD right now, 5 min from the stadium.  Was going to go tonight to see the A's but my son feels like crap after eating two doubles from In n Out (who knew that was a bad idea?), so we're going Thursday against the Rockies.  It's a nice park. 
    Two doubles?! Wow. Never been to San Diego, heard it is gorgeous.  Have fun!
    Yeah, he's 19 and thinks he's invincible.  Idiot. 
    19?  “You’re on your own; I am going to the game.”

     I love Dan Diego. That’s a nice ballpark, too.
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 41,890
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    And the mentality behind it.  What does this remind you of?
    How the Kansas City Chiefs got their name and why it39s so controversial -  CNN

    A Braves game? Now we want to get rid of the chop?  I can’t.  

    OH CRAP, haha!  That was on the page of Chief's photos for some reason.  I thought they were doing some tomahawk throw thing or whatever.  Yes, I admit it, "I'm dumb, I think I dumb..."

    dumb de dumb dumb dumb!   :lol:
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  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Yet the Kansas City Chiefs refuse to change their name.
    Tell me why the Chiefs should change their name.  What is insulting about the Chiefs?

    again, where does it end?

    The word "Chief" technically refers to the leader of any group of people but, as well all likely well known, the way it is used, especially as a sports name, is related to Native Americans.  And ask a Native American what he or she thinks of using the word "Chief" that way and they are likely to respond, "So do you use the work n***** to describe something related to a black person?"  They really are similar words that way.  It's REALLY not cool to refer to an Indian as "chief" because historically it has been similar to calling a black person "n*****".
    Chief and the N word are definitely not equals, not even close. 
    So the world will be at peace when we get rid of the Braves, Chiefs, Seminoles, Vikings, Angels, Devils, Blackhawks...who am I missing?
    Please don't leave out Fighting Irish.  As someone who is a quarter Irish this always offended me.
    I would like to support a name change to the Weasels.  Or, Dickwads.  
    Tools would be acceptable, also.

    @darwinstheory
    Am I right or am I right?
    /s


    Dude how dare you bust on ND!! But yeah as a fellow Irishman we need to get rid of the Fighting Irish and the Celtics too.  
    I went to SC.  Busting on the holy rollers is a way of life.

    My husband’s Irish. He gives not a shit about the name…he just wants reparations, dammit  ;)
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,839
    OnWis97 said:
    That Chiefs story is why I don’t a lot of weight on the original intent.  Well it appears that the intent was pure, if you will, that no longer matters since they have handled everything through stereotypes since.  

    The logo they use in their very first season in KC makes me question that story anyway.


    What, that's not Mayor Bartle carrying a football?
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • mcgruff10 said:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jefffedotin/2020/07/14/why-the-kansas-city-chiefs-team-name-may-not-actually-be-racist/?sh=3435192a2e1a

    Name Scrutiny Extends From Redskins To Chiefs, But Kansas City’s Mascot Has A Different Origin Story

    With Washington’s NFL team officially changing its nickname from the Redskins, Kansas City’s team name of the Chiefs has come under scrutiny.

    That name, however, was not derived from Native Americans. The Chiefs were named after former Kansas City mayor H. Roe Bartle, who helped the city land a pro football team in the early 1960s.

    The franchise, of course, has adopted Native American themes since then. Fans — some dressed in Native American attire — do the tomahawk chop in Arrowhead Stadium while Warpaint the horse gallops after touchdowns.

    One can make a strong case that those franchise staples offensively depict Native Americans as “savages” and should be changed.

    The mere nickname, though, has more innocuous roots. According to the Chiefs media guide, the Chiefs moniker was selected in honor of Bartle, who helped convince Lamar Hunt to move the Dallas Texans to Kansas City, as part of a name-the-team contest.

    Bartle, who was nearing the end of his second and final term as mayor when he persuaded Hunt, had tried to land pro football in Kansas City at least two other times during the AFL days.

    The mayor was nicknamed “the Chief” not only because of his 6-3, 300-pound-plus girth, but also his work with the Boy Scouts of America.

    After serving in the military during World War I and getting his law degree from the University of Chattanooga, Bartle started as a scout executive in Wyoming, following a training session in Kansas City. The number of scouts in his Wyoming area grew tenfold.

    After Bartle and Hunt initially met in Dallas, only Bartle and his chauffeur knew that Hunt was scouting the Kansas City location because he didn’t want to compete with the Dallas Cowboys for fans.

    Hunt surreptitiously checked into Kansas City’s Muehlebach Hotel under an assumed name, and when Bartle had to introduce him, he called him “Mr. Lamar,” according to Matt Fulks’ 100 Things Chiefs Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die.

    (Disclosure: I am an editor at Triumph Books, the publisher of 100 Things Chiefs Fans Should Know & Do Before They Die.)

    Bartle’s two four-year, mayoral terms ended in 1963. Hunt officially announced his team was moving from Dallas to Kansas City that year, and the Chiefs name was established in May.

    During the Chiefs’ franchise history, their Native American traditions have come under scrutiny as well.

    In 1992 the team stopped playing the tomahawk chop war chant at its home games. Fans, however, still sang the tune and did the arm motion before the franchise reinstituted it shortly thereafter.

    Vahe Gregorian, the columnist for The Kansas City Starsuggested rebranding the Chiefs name as a way to memorialize the six Kansas City firefighters who died in an explosion in 1988.

    And the City of Fountains actually has a prominent fountain located at the south end of Penn Valley Park, which features two bronze sculptures of firefighters.

    Less than two miles from that fountain is Bartle Hall. The major convention center in downtown Kansas City, Mo. is named in honor of the Chief who passed away on May 9, 1974.


    your article misses one key element of this:

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/26/us/kansas-city-chiefs-nickname-mascot-spt/index.html

    The Chiefs are named for former Kansas City mayor Harold Roe Bartle, a White man who impersonated Native American culture.
    Before becoming mayor, Bartle was actively involved in leadership of the Boy Scouts of America. In 1925, he created the Tribe of Mic-O-Say, a scouting organization that drew on Native American heritage and customs. 

    Bartle was not a Native American, but claimed he was "inducted into a local tribute of the Arapaho people," according to Mohawk journalist Vincent Schilling. Bartle was called "Lone Bear," and later came to be colloquially known as "Chief."
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,445
    edited July 2021
    When I was in the Boy Scouts I was in Order of the Arrow.  It was a service organization that emphasized a lot of Native American traditions and beliefs.  I signed up to be a traditional dancer.  I made my own costume, dressed up and performed for various troops and other organizations.  I learned a lot, it was fun and very respectful.  I don’t see anything wrong with what bartle or myself did.  

    I even remember meeting with the Koshare dance team from Colorado, they were the freaking best out there.  They showed us pointers on how to dance and what to add to our costume.  They thought it was great that we were sharing their culture with the world.  
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    When I was in the Boy Scouts I was in Order of the Arrow.  It was a service organization that emphasized a lot of Native American traditions and beliefs.  I signed up to be a traditional dancer.  I made my own costume, dressed up and performed for various troops and other organizations.  I learned a lot, it was fun and very respectful.  I don’t see anything wrong with what bartle or myself did.  
    were any native americans there to teach you the hows and whys? or just a bunch of white guys who thought they knew? 

    white children should not be performing traditional native american dances. period. 

    you may believe it's being respectful. you may believe it's "paying homage". these traditions and dances are sacred to them. we don't just get to co-opt these traditions in the name of entertainment. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

    Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,589
    Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

    Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???


    Habs
  • mrussel1 said:
    Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

    Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???


    Habs
    BWAHAHAHAHA
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,901
    edited July 2021
    Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

    Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???


    Not sure who you are directing that at but in my opinion some of the names are respectful.  I don't think Braves, Chiefs, Blackhawks, etc., are disrespectful or racist.  I realize that the Indians were treated horribly but I think modern day Americans realize that.

    To me it is similar to Minutemen, Patriots, Musketeers, Pirates, etc.

    Of course I could be horribly off base

    edit: and clearly the tomahawk chop or chanting is inappropriate
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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,445
    mcgruff10 said:
    When I was in the Boy Scouts I was in Order of the Arrow.  It was a service organization that emphasized a lot of Native American traditions and beliefs.  I signed up to be a traditional dancer.  I made my own costume, dressed up and performed for various troops and other organizations.  I learned a lot, it was fun and very respectful.  I don’t see anything wrong with what bartle or myself did.  
    were any native americans there to teach you the hows and whys? or just a bunch of white guys who thought they knew? 

    white children should not be performing traditional native american dances. period. 

    you may believe it's being respectful. you may believe it's "paying homage". these traditions and dances are sacred to them. we don't just get to co-opt these traditions in the name of entertainment. 
    If we were being respectful and authentic then why not?  Like I said, we had Native Americans tell us that it was cool that we were showcasing their culture and traditions.  Did a native american teach us?  no.  One of my kids like to break dance, should I yell him to stop since a black person didn't teach him?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Amazing that you guys are so opposed to racism except where it concerns the use of Indigenous names, images, and mascots...

    Maybe you are only opposed to racism if it suits some of your agendas???


    Not sure who you are directing that at but in my opinion some of the names are respectful.  I don't think Braves, Chiefs, Blackhawks, etc., are disrespectful or racist.  I realize that the Indians were treated horribly but I think modern day Americans realize that.

    To me it is similar to Minutemen, Patriots, Musketeers, Pirates, etc.

    Of course I could be horribly off base

    edit: and clearly the tomahawk chop or chanting is inappropriate
    Read some of the comments here...

    I do not know much about those other groups you mentioned...but the settlers committed one of the world's largest genocides in the Americas and yet these same settlers made it a point of mocking indigenous peoples.  They are just sports teams...nothing more.  You can find a nonoffensive name and mascot...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,809
    edited July 2021
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    When I was in the Boy Scouts I was in Order of the Arrow.  It was a service organization that emphasized a lot of Native American traditions and beliefs.  I signed up to be a traditional dancer.  I made my own costume, dressed up and performed for various troops and other organizations.  I learned a lot, it was fun and very respectful.  I don’t see anything wrong with what bartle or myself did.  
    were any native americans there to teach you the hows and whys? or just a bunch of white guys who thought they knew? 

    white children should not be performing traditional native american dances. period. 

    you may believe it's being respectful. you may believe it's "paying homage". these traditions and dances are sacred to them. we don't just get to co-opt these traditions in the name of entertainment. 
    If we were being respectful and authentic then why not?  Like I said, we had Native Americans tell us that it was cool that we were showcasing their culture and traditions.  Did a native american teach us?  no.  One of my kids like to break dance, should I yell him to stop since a black person didn't teach him?
    breakdancing, in my opinion, doesn't fall under ceremonial/traditional dance of Africans. you can try to cherry pick any singular type of example, but the crux of it is, there is no "one size fits all" answer to prove your point. nor is there to mine. 

    turn this around for a second. imagine if history were the opposite. native americans travelled across the ocean in search of, say, brazil. they landed in europe instead. but they didn't give two shits. 400 years later they still called them brazilians. set up Brazilian Residential Schools to indoctrinate them into the native american way of life, murdering thousands of them in the process.

    they made sports teams that mocked christianity, with teams called The Bishops or The Popes and had images of them raping boys in their sleep and murdering all those who opposed the church, the fans in the stands holding up bible replicas over their heads, calling to the "football gods" to help their team win. bringing crosses and throwing holy water on opposing teams/fans. 

    sure, The Bishops on its own isn't offensive. But the connotation would be. I highly doubt you'd be so blasé saying "it's just a name". 
    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
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  • dankinddankind Posts: 20,839
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,445
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    no one is a big "what if" person if it blows up their narrative.

    this is just a ludicrous comment, dude. and kind of offensive as to the actual plight of real people at the hands of other real people. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 9,714
    edited July 2021
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    I don't quite get the concerns over changing other names or practices if as a society/culture that is where things lead. The question of, "Where does it stop/end?" seems pointless because it stops/ends when we as a society decide it does. Habits and routines typically become bad if they remain in place too long. In most cases, the only issue with the change is that people don't like the next thing because it breaks from the tradition they have known. In 20 years, no one will give a shit they went from Indians to Guardians besides the die hards and that will eventually pass when they pass. Sports franchises move and change names all the time and I can't recall a single time when anyone was like, "Hey, what a great name they chose!" It's mostly complaining by the fanbase or a half hearted acceptance of "That's not too bad."

    If something becomes offensive or culturally outdated, it still seems to take decades for a change to happen anyway, unless it leads to violence or mass public outcry. I mean, how long did we put up with Confederate flags before it started to become more of a negative connotation? Yet, they still aren't universally decried.

    Just the things I can think of from the 80's and 90's that have become taboo and uncouth makes me cringe on what was allowed in my brief lifetime. That clip from Can't Buy Me Love (A movie I loved as a kid) alone shows how poorly some things age.
    Post edited by tbergs on
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • OnWis97OnWis97 Posts: 5,056
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    I think there's a big difference. I actually think natural disaster names are kind of stupid. Not "Minnesota Wild" stupid, but stupid. I don't think they need to be eliminated/banned, and while I am sure you could dig up some kook that does, that's got to be a pretty rare opinion.  Similarly, Minnesota Wild is no better of a name than Minnesota Desk Chairs would be...in either case, the public pressure a team would face to get rid of it would be the same as when the 49ers dropped their one-day helmet. Not offensive; just plain bad.

    I know these lines can be difficult to draw. R******s is a no-brainer. Some of the other things are grayer. Wahoo, to me anyway, is a no-brainer but some other stuff is grayer. As for Arrowhead (the logo or the stadium), I'm not  fan. But any public pressure is not going to come from me either. Worse than Wild? Yes, at the very least in terms of cultural impacts/sensitivity.

    I am sure people whined about political correctness in Pekin, IL, 1981, too (Warning; racial slur pops up front and center): Link.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,901
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot.  Best to get rid of them all together.  I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,445
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot.  Best to get rid of them all together.  I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
    I personally don’t see it as racist, I almost look it as an honor to have a sports team named after your heritage.  Maybe they could keep the name but make it more updated.  

    We just went through this in the town I live in, we were the Howell running rebels.  Mascot was an old csa soldier lol.  They updated the mascot but kept the name. No harm no foul.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,445
    edited July 2021
    @OnWis97 what s the background on the Wild?  I honestly have no clue. Side note: I always loved the north stars uniforms.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,901
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot.  Best to get rid of them all together.  I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
    I personally don’t see it as racist, I almost look it as an honor to have a sports team named after your heritage.  Maybe they could keep the name but make it more updated.  

    We just went through this in the town I live in, we were the Howell running rebels.  Mascot was an old csa soldier lol.  They updated the mascot but kept the name. No harm no foul.  
    Comparing rebels to Indians is not in the same universe. 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,445
    edited July 2021
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot.  Best to get rid of them all together.  I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
    I personally don’t see it as racist, I almost look it as an honor to have a sports team named after your heritage.  Maybe they could keep the name but make it more updated.  

    We just went through this in the town I live in, we were the Howell running rebels.  Mascot was an old csa soldier lol.  They updated the mascot but kept the name. No harm no foul.  
    Comparing rebels to Indians is not in the same universe. 
    I m not saying it was equal, it was just an example. However “rebels” have been making headlines a lot in the past two years with regard to statues and renaming military bases.

    Have their been sit downs between both sides to try to find common ground? (NFL owners and native Americans)
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    The more I think about it I do think that calling yourselves "Chiefs" or "Braves" is kind of ridiculous if you don't have a fitting mascot.  Best to get rid of them all together.  I hate to think of the Blackhawks changing their name but it just seems inevitable.
    I personally don’t see it as racist, I almost look it as an honor to have a sports team named after your heritage.  Maybe they could keep the name but make it more updated.  

    We just went through this in the town I live in, we were the Howell running rebels.  Mascot was an old csa soldier lol.  They updated the mascot but kept the name. No harm no foul.  
    that's the whitewashing of it we've all been convinced to believe. the "heritage" we're "honouring" is that of a primitive, savage warrior, animal, sub-human. while historically some of that may be correct (as it was for all of us, not just aboriginals), it doesn't positively or accurately reflect their people of today. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 4,797
    OnWis97 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not a big “what if” person. Again, ok with the Chiefs getting rid of their mascot but no problem with keeping the team and stadium name.  Getting rid of the Redskins and Indians was a good call but the rest just leave alone. Maybe update/change the mascot a little. 
    To me people are always going to complain about something.  What is next after We get rid of all Native American References in sports?  We gonna go after the Miami Hurricanes because the word hurricane has a negative connotation and could be viewed as scary?
    I think there's a big difference. I actually think natural disaster names are kind of stupid. Not "Minnesota Wild" stupid, but stupid. I don't think they need to be eliminated/banned, and while I am sure you could dig up some kook that does, that's got to be a pretty rare opinion.  Similarly, Minnesota Wild is no better of a name than Minnesota Desk Chairs would be...in either case, the public pressure a team would face to get rid of it would be the same as when the 49ers dropped their one-day helmet. Not offensive; just plain bad.

    I know these lines can be difficult to draw. R******s is a no-brainer. Some of the other things are grayer. Wahoo, to me anyway, is a no-brainer but some other stuff is grayer. As for Arrowhead (the logo or the stadium), I'm not  fan. But any public pressure is not going to come from me either. Worse than Wild? Yes, at the very least in terms of cultural impacts/sensitivity.

    I am sure people whined about political correctness in Pekin, IL, 1981, too (Warning; racial slur pops up front and center): Link.
    As a long time 49er fan, I agree with the helmet being hideous. I know someone who lived in Pekin after the name change, and you are correct, there were still people complaining 15 or so years after it was changed. There are probably still some.
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