Home› A Moving Train

Cleveland Indians to drop "Indians" from team name after 105 years

HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,796
in A Moving Train
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30515643/sources-cleveland-drop-indians-nickname-105-years

I say change it to Cleveland Colonizers. Has kind of a nice ring to it. 
new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

www.headstonesband.com




«134567…19

Comments

  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain Posts: 31,204
    Go Lake Monsters!
    I think that would be a sweet name, lol.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,301
    i vote cleveland steamers!!
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,301
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,374
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    Yeah, the logo was awful. 

    The modern day use of the name 'Indians' is over the top dumb too, considering Indians are from, you know... India.   
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,401
    I heard they were going with Cleveland Proud Boys
    hippiemom = goodness
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,796
    I'm calling it now: in this hyper-partisan time, I bet they go with something ridiculous like The Cleveland Americans, and they'll release a statement saying the new name reflects an attempt to be all inclusive, that they are a "team for everyone". 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,301
    Merkin Baller said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    Yeah, the logo was awful. 

    The modern day use of the name 'Indians' is over the top dumb too, considering Indians are from, you know... India.   
    i suppose it could have been worse. could have called them the "cleveland injuns".
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,301
    i remember studying this back in 1998 in my sports sociology class in grad school. at the time we thought they would change it within the next 5 years. i remember we talked about this issue in class on the same night mcgwire hit number 62.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,717
    there are some Grade-A meltdowns going on in some Cleveland Indians' fan groups I am in.  

    Personally, I am glad they are doing this quickly.  It was a matter of time and we would only be prolonging the debate.  I like the Chief Wahoo logo.  I associate it with a baseball team I have followed since I was 6 more than 35 years ago... but I completely understand why it had to go.  They did a good job hanging on until they were going to be directly in the crosshairs and they bailed on Wahoo just in time.  You just cant have a cartoonish caricature depicting a race of people as a company logo.

    Indians is also a crummy name.  I would never call a Native American an "Indian" to their face and have known that since high school.  

    The Indians in the post-wahoo days have shown that they have zero branding ability behind their name "Indians".  The letter 'C' is also highly used in MLB and they cant throw on a headdress or something because it would enflame the debate again.  Their current block-C logo is the worst in the league, and their colors are very drab.

    So this is a good opportunity to go in a new direction with that.  It doesn't change the past, but they can get with the times.  I just hope they dont make a monumental farce out of their identity.



  • OnWis97OnWis97 Posts: 5,056
    edited December 2020
    They may have been able to pull this name off for the long-haul (unlike the Washington NFL team...which needed to dump that name decades ago) if they'd have maybe worked with tribes on some respectful imagery. Instead, when people started criticizing the "Chief Wahoo" logo, they kind of dug in their heels.  Their fanbase loved it as do the "anti-woke" masses, so there was a market.  They dumped the logo a couple of years ago but I wonder whether they could have kept the name if they'd handled the marketing/imagery better in recent decades.

    For the rename, rule 1 needs to be "Forget that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland."  No Rockers. No "Cleveland Rocks." No guitars in the logo. Rule 2 should be "think about the name 20 years from now; not next year." The problem that Cleveland and Washington both have is that these names were around so long that any new name is going to feel like New Orleans Pelicans* or something. That these names were outdated doesn’t make this any less jarring than if the Detroit Tigers had to pick a new name.  They flat out cannot have a timeless name right out of the gate.  Like the Minnesota NHL team should have, these teams should think about how the name will seem in 20 years, not next year.

     

    *I liked the Pelicans name from day 1 but it was still essentially an expansion name and didn’t feel right like, say, Mavericks or Pacers. By now, though, it has kinda blended in, unlike Wild.

    Sorry; I'm into sports logos and uniforms.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,717
    OnWis97 said:
    They may have been able to pull this name off for the long-haul (unlike the Washington NFL team...which needed to dump that name decades ago) if they'd have maybe worked with tribes on some respectful imagery. Instead, when people started criticizing the "Chief Wahoo" logo, they kind of dug in their heels.  Their fanbase loved it as do the "anti-woke" masses, so there was a market.  They dumped the logo a couple of years ago but I wonder whether they could have kept the name if they'd handled the marketing/imagery better in recent decades.

    For the rename, rule 1 needs to be "Forget that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland."  No Rockers. No "Cleveland Rocks." No guitars in the logo. Rule 2 should be "think about the name 20 years from now; not next year." The problem that Cleveland and Washington both have is that these names were around so long that any new name is going to feel like New Orleans Pelicans* or something. That these names were outdated doesn’t make this any less jarring than if the Detroit Tigers had to pick a new name.  They flat out cannot have a timeless name right out of the gate.  Like the Minnesota NHL team should have, these teams should think about how the name will seem in 20 years, not next year.

     

    *I liked the Pelicans name from day 1 but it was still essentially an expansion name and didn’t feel right like, say, Mavericks or Pacers. By now, though, it has kinda blended in, unlike Wild.

    Sorry; I'm into sports logos and uniforms.
    I think 'Indians' would have hit the chopping block at some point regardless of branding.  

    I agree on the branding/logo things you said 100%.  I am also 'into' this and Minnesota Wild is always one I think about as a pitfall.  I dont want any sort of rock and roll hall of fame crap.  None of the trendy 'minor league' double-names like the Rumble Ponies or the Lake Rockers.... and also the trendy "indoor lacrosse" style non-plural action names like "Fury", "attack", "Wild", etc.... 

    I dont trust them.  I dont trust anybody.

    Personally, I am open to the idea of Spiders because there is history there.  Also really would like 'Barons' as that is a call out to the defunct NHL team, and that sounds good.  
  • OnWis97OnWis97 Posts: 5,056
    MayDay10 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    They may have been able to pull this name off for the long-haul (unlike the Washington NFL team...which needed to dump that name decades ago) if they'd have maybe worked with tribes on some respectful imagery. Instead, when people started criticizing the "Chief Wahoo" logo, they kind of dug in their heels.  Their fanbase loved it as do the "anti-woke" masses, so there was a market.  They dumped the logo a couple of years ago but I wonder whether they could have kept the name if they'd handled the marketing/imagery better in recent decades.

    For the rename, rule 1 needs to be "Forget that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland."  No Rockers. No "Cleveland Rocks." No guitars in the logo. Rule 2 should be "think about the name 20 years from now; not next year." The problem that Cleveland and Washington both have is that these names were around so long that any new name is going to feel like New Orleans Pelicans* or something. That these names were outdated doesn’t make this any less jarring than if the Detroit Tigers had to pick a new name.  They flat out cannot have a timeless name right out of the gate.  Like the Minnesota NHL team should have, these teams should think about how the name will seem in 20 years, not next year.

     

    *I liked the Pelicans name from day 1 but it was still essentially an expansion name and didn’t feel right like, say, Mavericks or Pacers. By now, though, it has kinda blended in, unlike Wild.

    Sorry; I'm into sports logos and uniforms.
    I think 'Indians' would have hit the chopping block at some point regardless of branding.  

    I agree on the branding/logo things you said 100%.  I am also 'into' this and Minnesota Wild is always one I think about as a pitfall.  I dont want any sort of rock and roll hall of fame crap.  None of the trendy 'minor league' double-names like the Rumble Ponies or the Lake Rockers.... and also the trendy "indoor lacrosse" style non-plural action names like "Fury", "attack", "Wild", etc.... 

    I dont trust them.  I dont trust anybody.

    Personally, I am open to the idea of Spiders because there is history there.  Also really would like 'Barons' as that is a call out to the defunct NHL team, and that sounds good.  

    I am actually on a sports logos/uniforms board and a lot of them like "Spiders," probably because there's a bit of that "timeliness" kind of built in (at least to the history-minded fan). I can live with Spiders, though the fear is you'd get a minor league quality angry spider holding a bat as the logo.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,796
    edited December 2020
    Cleveland Clairvoyants. 

    DOTC as their them song. 

    a hippie named "Claire" as their mascot. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Long overdue.  The Chiefs and the Braves need to go as well...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 41,890
    Hooray!  About time!

    Name change suggestion:  The Cleveland River Burners
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,838
    Cleveland Steamers

    New logo:


    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,898
    I fear for the Blackhawks
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 3,365
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Go Lake Monsters!
    I think that would be a sweet name, lol.
    Monsters is already taken:
    https://www.clevelandmonsters.com
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,275
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    They dropped the logo a few years ago.

    For whatever reason I never saw the logo as racist.  It was a caricature to me and not to be taken seriously.  people losing their shit over this makes sense.  People don't like change and especially with their sports teams.

    Some of the other name changes that I think were ridiculous were the Pelicans.  The Devil rays to Rays.  The Bullets to the Wizards.  The Washington Bullets was head and shoulders the coolest name for a team anywhere.

    I will be petitioning Hockey and Baseball to change the name of the Devils and Angels.  We should separate religion from sports.  On that note, go Halos!
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,796
    tempo_n_groove said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    They dropped the logo a few years ago.

    For whatever reason I never saw the logo as racist.  It was a caricature to me and not to be taken seriously.  people losing their shit over this makes sense.  People don't like change and especially with their sports teams.

    Some of the other name changes that I think were ridiculous were the Pelicans.  The Devil rays to Rays.  The Bullets to the Wizards.  The Washington Bullets was head and shoulders the coolest name for a team anywhere.

    I will be petitioning Hockey and Baseball to change the name of the Devils and Angels.  We should separate religion from sports.  On that note, go Halos!
    no offence, but that's your privilege talking. saying it makes sense that people lose their shit over losing a logo or a name meant for entertainment, but it shouldn't bother the people that it is caricaturising, is pretty tone deaf. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,512
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    They dropped the logo a few years ago.

    For whatever reason I never saw the logo as racist.  It was a caricature to me and not to be taken seriously.  people losing their shit over this makes sense.  People don't like change and especially with their sports teams.

    Some of the other name changes that I think were ridiculous were the Pelicans.  The Devil rays to Rays.  The Bullets to the Wizards.  The Washington Bullets was head and shoulders the coolest name for a team anywhere.

    I will be petitioning Hockey and Baseball to change the name of the Devils and Angels.  We should separate religion from sports.  On that note, go Halos!
    no offence, but that's your privilege talking. saying it makes sense that people lose their shit over losing a logo or a name meant for entertainment, but it shouldn't bother the people that it is caricaturising, is pretty tone deaf. 
    But was there any uproar to change the Indians name?  There was some with the Redskins yes, but Indians? I don't recall seeing any.
  • OnWis97OnWis97 Posts: 5,056
    tempo_n_groove said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    They dropped the logo a few years ago.

    For whatever reason I never saw the logo as racist.  It was a caricature to me and not to be taken seriously.  people losing their shit over this makes sense.  People don't like change and especially with their sports teams.

    Some of the other name changes that I think were ridiculous were the Pelicans.  The Devil rays to Rays.  The Bullets to the Wizards.  The Washington Bullets was head and shoulders the coolest name for a team anywhere.

    I will be petitioning Hockey and Baseball to change the name of the Devils and Angels.  We should separate religion from sports.  On that note, go Halos!
    The Pelicans was done so the Charlotte Bobcats could get the Hornets name (and history, don't get me started).  I kinda feel how you do about Devil/Rays. I also prefer the Bullets name (not to mention the uniforms) but the owner's rationale to change it, while neither "right" nor "wrong," seemed genuine.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 19,898
    I'm a little stuck on "Indians".  The logo was absolutely out of line.

    Is Indians different from Cowboys? or Pirates?

    I guess we just have to defer to the native American leaders. 
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • SpunkieSpunkie Posts: 6,583
    Now if only we could get PJ to drop the words ignorant Indians from their evolution song.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,796
    pjhawks said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    They dropped the logo a few years ago.

    For whatever reason I never saw the logo as racist.  It was a caricature to me and not to be taken seriously.  people losing their shit over this makes sense.  People don't like change and especially with their sports teams.

    Some of the other name changes that I think were ridiculous were the Pelicans.  The Devil rays to Rays.  The Bullets to the Wizards.  The Washington Bullets was head and shoulders the coolest name for a team anywhere.

    I will be petitioning Hockey and Baseball to change the name of the Devils and Angels.  We should separate religion from sports.  On that note, go Halos!
    no offence, but that's your privilege talking. saying it makes sense that people lose their shit over losing a logo or a name meant for entertainment, but it shouldn't bother the people that it is caricaturising, is pretty tone deaf. 
    But was there any uproar to change the Indians name?  There was some with the Redskins yes, but Indians? I don't recall seeing any.
    I don't know, but I don't think outrage is required. there isn't really any outrage about the CFL team the Edmonton Eskimos either, but the club chose to engage in dialogue with indigenous leaders to gauge if there is an issue. they are doing the right way. not waiting for everyone to be in an uproar and then just having the appearance of "bending to the mob". 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,374

    I get the resistance to political correctness, but also came to the conclusion a while ago that since I'm not Native American, it wasn't my call as to whether or not these team names are offensive. 

    "Redskins" obviously had to go, as did the Chief Wahoo logo - IMO those changes were no brainers. 

    I'm on board with changing the name from Indians, on the premise alone of how stupid it is, but should the Blackhawks / Chiefs / Braves have to change? IDK, not for me to say. 

    Personally the Blackhawks jerseys are some of my favorite in the NHL, and I don't think they're offensive in the least, but again, that's not really my call to make. 
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    tish said:
    Now if only we could get PJ to drop the words ignorant Indians from their evolution song.
    Seriously?  
    I mean, how can you compare satire to caricature?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    pjhawks said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    They dropped the logo a few years ago.

    For whatever reason I never saw the logo as racist.  It was a caricature to me and not to be taken seriously.  people losing their shit over this makes sense.  People don't like change and especially with their sports teams.

    Some of the other name changes that I think were ridiculous were the Pelicans.  The Devil rays to Rays.  The Bullets to the Wizards.  The Washington Bullets was head and shoulders the coolest name for a team anywhere.

    I will be petitioning Hockey and Baseball to change the name of the Devils and Angels.  We should separate religion from sports.  On that note, go Halos!
    no offence, but that's your privilege talking. saying it makes sense that people lose their shit over losing a logo or a name meant for entertainment, but it shouldn't bother the people that it is caricaturising, is pretty tone deaf. 
    But was there any uproar to change the Indians name?  There was some with the Redskins yes, but Indians? I don't recall seeing any.
    Let's not look to Cleveland sports fans as a dependable standard on anything positive lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,717
    pjhawks said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    seriously though, it is about time they changed it. the logo is timeless, but super racist though.
    They dropped the logo a few years ago.

    For whatever reason I never saw the logo as racist.  It was a caricature to me and not to be taken seriously.  people losing their shit over this makes sense.  People don't like change and especially with their sports teams.

    Some of the other name changes that I think were ridiculous were the Pelicans.  The Devil rays to Rays.  The Bullets to the Wizards.  The Washington Bullets was head and shoulders the coolest name for a team anywhere.

    I will be petitioning Hockey and Baseball to change the name of the Devils and Angels.  We should separate religion from sports.  On that note, go Halos!
    no offence, but that's your privilege talking. saying it makes sense that people lose their shit over losing a logo or a name meant for entertainment, but it shouldn't bother the people that it is caricaturising, is pretty tone deaf. 
    But was there any uproar to change the Indians name?  There was some with the Redskins yes, but Indians? I don't recall seeing any.
    Yes there was.  It wasn't as loud because the whole Redskins deal was front and center.  The logo was in the crosshairs for many years, and many protests outside the ballpark.  I think MLB held the ASG carrot out there to try to prod the Dolans into eliminating the logo.

    The name was the next thing.  Not a huge outrage, but it was there, and something we hear about every year.  

    As I mentioned, the franchise is stuck in a bit of a branding purgatory without Chief Wahoo.  A change is probably needed.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,796
    Merkin Baller said:

    I get the resistance to political correctness, but also came to the conclusion a while ago that since I'm not Native American, it wasn't my call as to whether or not these team names are offensive. 

    "Redskins" obviously had to go, as did the Chief Wahoo logo - IMO those changes were no brainers. 

    I'm on board with changing the name from Indians, on the premise alone of how stupid it is, but should the Blackhawks / Chiefs / Braves have to change? IDK, not for me to say. 

    Personally the Blackhawks jerseys are some of my favorite in the NHL, and I don't think they're offensive in the least, but again, that's not really my call to make. 
    whether the logo is deemed to be cartoonish or respectful i don't think is the only issue: it's also co-opting a culture for entertainment purposes. 
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




Sign In or Register to comment.