I'm from there too and it never occurred to me until I got the email from Dolan. Most people would take 71 from the west and 90 from the east, I would think. The team will need to reinforce this over and over nationally. It's hard to escape the Galaxy as your next thought. Too culturally ingrained.
So, did anyone else look into why they were called the “Indians” to begin with?
Look into this guy; Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change to “Indians” was actually to honor this gentleman. I get that “Indian” is an undesirable term for native-Americans, but this guy’s legacy is getting somewhat whitewashed with this change.
“A lthough Sockalexis had a brief career, he faced many obstacles during his time in professional baseball. It was reported that fans of the opposing teams often shouted racial slurs toward him due to his Penobscot heritage. Additionally, fans imitated war whoops and war dances in his presence.[2]Later, when sports journalists attributed his rapid decline to alcoholism, they identified the disease as the inherent "Indian weakness".[2]
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
So, did anyone else look into why they were called the “Indians” to begin with?
Look into this guy; Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change to “Indians” was actually to honor this gentleman. I get that “Indian” is an undesirable term for native-Americans, but this guy’s legacy is getting somewhat whitewashed with this change.
“A lthough Sockalexis had a brief career, he faced many obstacles during his time in professional baseball. It was reported that fans of the opposing teams often shouted racial slurs toward him due to his Penobscot heritage. Additionally, fans imitated war whoops and war dances in his presence.[2]Later, when sports journalists attributed his rapid decline to alcoholism, they identified the disease as the inherent "Indian weakness".[2]
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
because it doesn't matter. the name change is taking effect today as a result of today's cultural changes/sensitivities.
So, did anyone else look into why they were called the “Indians” to begin with?
Look into this guy; Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change to “Indians” was actually to honor this gentleman. I get that “Indian” is an undesirable term for native-Americans, but this guy’s legacy is getting somewhat whitewashed with this change.
“A lthough Sockalexis had a brief career, he faced many obstacles during his time in professional baseball. It was reported that fans of the opposing teams often shouted racial slurs toward him due to his Penobscot heritage. Additionally, fans imitated war whoops and war dances in his presence.[2]Later, when sports journalists attributed his rapid decline to alcoholism, they identified the disease as the inherent "Indian weakness".[2]
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
So, did anyone else look into why they were called the “Indians” to begin with?
Look into this guy; Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change to “Indians” was actually to honor this gentleman. I get that “Indian” is an undesirable term for native-Americans, but this guy’s legacy is getting somewhat whitewashed with this change.
“A lthough Sockalexis had a brief career, he faced many obstacles during his time in professional baseball. It was reported that fans of the opposing teams often shouted racial slurs toward him due to his Penobscot heritage. Additionally, fans imitated war whoops and war dances in his presence.[2]Later, when sports journalists attributed his rapid decline to alcoholism, they identified the disease as the inherent "Indian weakness".[2]
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
because it doesn't matter. the name change is taking effect today as a result of today's cultural changes/sensitivities.
So, did anyone else look into why they were called the “Indians” to begin with?
Look into this guy; Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change to “Indians” was actually to honor this gentleman. I get that “Indian” is an undesirable term for native-Americans, but this guy’s legacy is getting somewhat whitewashed with this change.
“A lthough Sockalexis had a brief career, he faced many obstacles during his time in professional baseball. It was reported that fans of the opposing teams often shouted racial slurs toward him due to his Penobscot heritage. Additionally, fans imitated war whoops and war dances in his presence.[2]Later, when sports journalists attributed his rapid decline to alcoholism, they identified the disease as the inherent "Indian weakness".[2]
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
because it doesn't matter. the name change is taking effect today as a result of today's cultural changes/sensitivities.
Which I do find weird because I had Native American friends in Arizona that called themselves Indians and saw nothing wrong with it. I met an actor who was in a bunch of movies. He said to me one day "I had to go to acting school to learn how to be an Indian. Imagine that? Me learning to be an Indian?" He always got a chuckle with that one.
So, did anyone else look into why they were called the “Indians” to begin with?
Look into this guy; Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change to “Indians” was actually to honor this gentleman. I get that “Indian” is an undesirable term for native-Americans, but this guy’s legacy is getting somewhat whitewashed with this change.
“A lthough Sockalexis had a brief career, he faced many obstacles during his time in professional baseball. It was reported that fans of the opposing teams often shouted racial slurs toward him due to his Penobscot heritage. Additionally, fans imitated war whoops and war dances in his presence.[2]Later, when sports journalists attributed his rapid decline to alcoholism, they identified the disease as the inherent "Indian weakness".[2]
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
because it doesn't matter. the name change is taking effect today as a result of today's cultural changes/sensitivities.
Which I do find weird because I had Native American friends in Arizona that called themselves Indians and saw nothing wrong with it. I met an actor who was in a bunch of movies. He said to me one day "I had to go to acting school to learn how to be an Indian. Imagine that? Me learning to be an Indian?" He always got a chuckle with that one.
because "we" have been calling them that for hundreds of years. so that's what they identified with. There is still a gang in Winnipeg that uses the term "indian" in their title. Indian Posse. we still called it Indian Affairs in Canada until very recently.
So, did anyone else look into why they were called the “Indians” to begin with?
Look into this guy; Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change to “Indians” was actually to honor this gentleman. I get that “Indian” is an undesirable term for native-Americans, but this guy’s legacy is getting somewhat whitewashed with this change.
“A lthough Sockalexis had a brief career, he faced many obstacles during his time in professional baseball. It was reported that fans of the opposing teams often shouted racial slurs toward him due to his Penobscot heritage. Additionally, fans imitated war whoops and war dances in his presence.[2]Later, when sports journalists attributed his rapid decline to alcoholism, they identified the disease as the inherent "Indian weakness".[2]
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
because it doesn't matter. the name change is taking effect today as a result of today's cultural changes/sensitivities.
Which I do find weird because I had Native American friends in Arizona that called themselves Indians and saw nothing wrong with it. I met an actor who was in a bunch of movies. He said to me one day "I had to go to acting school to learn how to be an Indian. Imagine that? Me learning to be an Indian?" He always got a chuckle with that one.
because "we" have been calling them that for hundreds of years. so that's what they identified with. There is still a gang in Winnipeg that uses the term "indian" in their title. Indian Posse. we still called it Indian Affairs in Canada until very recently.
There is still the BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) in the United States… https://www.bia.gov/bia
The Sockalexis angle has been disputed. He had a short career with the Cleveland Spiders, which is not the same franchise as today's Indians and tomorrow's Guardians. It's a defunct National League team (i.e., he never played for the franchise but he did play in Cleveland). The Sockalexis angle started to pick up some steam when the name and /or logo fell out of favor with some people. The below link is interesting and inconclusive.
"As a child, I believed the Cleveland Indians were named for a great player named Sockalexis. As a grown man, I believed the Cleveland Indians were not named for a underachieving player named Sockalexis. Now I believe that the truth is somewhere in the silence between the notes."
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
I guess if we compare "Redskins" and "Indians" (and Chief Wahoo being the problem) to "Chiefs" and "Blackhawks" we can clearly see a difference.
I personally don't have an issue with Chiefs or Blackhawks. Seems pretty respectful to me.
I think R******s is by far the worst. As for the other names, I'm not a fan of those names and I never will be. Does that mean they need to change? I don't know. But it's not just the names; it's also the imagery. The imagery tends to be dripping in stereotype picked up from 1970s cartoons; weaponry, in particular, along with very insulting caracatures.* Most of those caricatures are gone now (though Chief Wahoo has only been gone for a few years). And I think they can be legitimately impactful in how we see Native people, as cartoons or novelties. Now we're left with the following imagery:
Totally bland identities like the Indians had for the last couple of years.
"Respectful" renderings like the Blackhawks and the R******s helmet of recent past.
Benign unrelated images, such as the Golden State Warriors using the Golden Gate Bridge
Weapons.
That bottom bullet is a no-go for me. No question. The rest of it gets a little nuanced. So the Warriors, rooted in the standard Native American imagery (see bottom link below), are now using no such imagery. Does this make it OK? Good question...the other piece of this is that Warriors doesn't have to mean Native Americans. The minor league Peoria Chiefs went to a "fire chief" logo after having used cartoon Native imagery. Is this OK? I suppose so, but it's all very nuanced. Is the Blackhawks logo respectful? I don't know; there seems to be some respectful intent but then again, in the 1930s, nobody thought the R******s name was out-of-bounds and maybe the intent, relative to the context of the time was at least less awful.
One thing I do believe, though is that spears, arrowheads, tomahawks, etc. push the "savage" stereotype. If I happened to cheer for any such teams, I would have to be very choosy when I made hat/shirt purchases. I really like the KC Chiefs colors, but I would not wear that arrowhead. And even if I liked the Blackhawks, I would not wear that logo; right or wrong, I'd just be uncomfortable.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
horrible, horrible people Trudeau supports the team Team colours are the same as the Liberals
*wink*
1996: Toronto 2003: St. Paul 2005: Thunder Bay 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa 2009: Chicago I, Chicago II 2010: Boston 2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg 2012: Missoula 2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo 2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee 2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II 2022: Hamilton, Toronto 2023: St. Paul I, St. Paul II
So, did anyone else look into why they were called the “Indians” to begin with?
Look into this guy; Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change to “Indians” was actually to honor this gentleman. I get that “Indian” is an undesirable term for native-Americans, but this guy’s legacy is getting somewhat whitewashed with this change.
“A lthough Sockalexis had a brief career, he faced many obstacles during his time in professional baseball. It was reported that fans of the opposing teams often shouted racial slurs toward him due to his Penobscot heritage. Additionally, fans imitated war whoops and war dances in his presence.[2]Later, when sports journalists attributed his rapid decline to alcoholism, they identified the disease as the inherent "Indian weakness".[2]
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
because it doesn't matter. the name change is taking effect today as a result of today's cultural changes/sensitivities.
Which I do find weird because I had Native American friends in Arizona that called themselves Indians and saw nothing wrong with it. I met an actor who was in a bunch of movies. He said to me one day "I had to go to acting school to learn how to be an Indian. Imagine that? Me learning to be an Indian?" He always got a chuckle with that one.
A few years back, I read several books about "The Indian Movement" (part of the sub-title of one of the best in the batch I read, a book by two Native Americans, Paul Chaat Smith and Robert Allen Warrior, called Like a Hurricane), a major movement in the 60's and 70's. Those books led me to become curious as to what term or name is best suited to this broad group of people.
I went on line and pulled up a number of contemporary Native American web sites and looked for the answer. There was no single consensus. It really depends on who who ask. Some things I found:
"Indian works for me because we took the name back".
"American Indian is fine by me."
"Don't call me American Indian. America is a name given by white settlers and I'm not from India."
"We are Indigenous peoples."
"Call us by our tribe name. We are many people and each tribe is a distinct group."
If you think about it, that latter choice makes the most sense. And if you meet an "Indian", you can always just respectfully ask how they prefer to be referred to. As a white dude, if I'm referring to indigenous people as a whole, I generally say, "indigenous people". If I were Canadian, it would be much more simple- I like how they say "First Nations People". Makes sense.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
Just watch within the next 5 years the Guardians will win a world series after many years NOT having done so.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
The nickname at the high school my wife teaches at is the Indians. They have replaced the imagery of a person with a headdress to a letter with an arrow and feathers. The Principal and teachers believe the name will be eventually changed due pressure from the State to replace problematic nicknames. The State can't force them to change it, but they can potentially do things like stipulate that teams with problematic nicknames can be excluded from post season tournaments, which are run by the State athletic association. It has been talked about, but nothing has been proposed from we can tell.
I guess if we compare "Redskins" and "Indians" (and Chief Wahoo being the problem) to "Chiefs" and "Blackhawks" we can clearly see a difference.
I personally don't have an issue with Chiefs or Blackhawks. Seems pretty respectful to me.
it's still cultural appropriation no matter how you slice it.
it is....I honestly don't know where to draw the line.
So did Elvis, the Beastie Boys, Living Color and a million examples. I think cultural appropriation accusations is Woke gone wild. I'm not talking about the Washington Redskins, I'm talking about a girl in college being accused of it for wearing hoop earrings kind of garbage. Should cultural blending be outlawed?
Comments
The bridge is well known in Cleveland and often photographed.
https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/73
I don't like name changes.
Louis Sockalexis (an actual native-American) that used to play for the Cleveland “Spiders”.
The name change of the Cleveland Naps to the Indians in 1915 is attributed to a desire to honor Sockalexis.[11] The new name was chosen by sportswriters in honor of the nickname given while Sockalexis played for the Cleveland Spiders.[12]”
So the name change to “Indians” was actually an anti-racism statement during that time period…I get why people don’t like the name, but I bet not many took the time to see why they were called “Indians” in the first place.
Here is a good read about the dude:
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/louis-sockalexis/
www.headstonesband.com
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
www.headstonesband.com
https://www.bia.gov/bia
"As a child, I believed the Cleveland Indians were named for a great player named Sockalexis. As a grown man, I believed the Cleveland Indians were not named for a underachieving player named Sockalexis. Now I believe that the truth is somewhere in the silence between the notes."
https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2014/03/18/the-cleveland-indians-louis-sockalexis-and-the-name/
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I personally don't have an issue with Chiefs or Blackhawks. Seems pretty respectful to me.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
www.headstonesband.com
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
- Totally bland identities like the Indians had for the last couple of years.
- "Respectful" renderings like the Blackhawks and the R******s helmet of recent past.
- Benign unrelated images, such as the Golden State Warriors using the Golden Gate Bridge
- Weapons.
That bottom bullet is a no-go for me. No question. The rest of it gets a little nuanced. So the Warriors, rooted in the standard Native American imagery (see bottom link below), are now using no such imagery. Does this make it OK? Good question...the other piece of this is that Warriors doesn't have to mean Native Americans. The minor league Peoria Chiefs went to a "fire chief" logo after having used cartoon Native imagery. Is this OK? I suppose so, but it's all very nuanced. Is the Blackhawks logo respectful? I don't know; there seems to be some respectful intent but then again, in the 1930s, nobody thought the R******s name was out-of-bounds and maybe the intent, relative to the context of the time was at least less awful.One thing I do believe, though is that spears, arrowheads, tomahawks, etc. push the "savage" stereotype. If I happened to cheer for any such teams, I would have to be very choosy when I made hat/shirt purchases. I really like the KC Chiefs colors, but I would not wear that arrowhead. And even if I liked the Blackhawks, I would not wear that logo; right or wrong, I'd just be uncomfortable.
*
https://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/168/full/6378.gif
https://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/162/thumbs/ek8fh77bg4ik3b31ekmxv8jwb.gif
https://content.sportslogos.net/logos/6/249/thumbs/5509.gif
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
horrible, horrible people
Trudeau supports the team
Team colours are the same as the Liberals
*wink*
2003: St. Paul
2005: Thunder Bay
2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
2010: Boston
2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
2012: Missoula
2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
2022: Hamilton, Toronto
2023: St. Paul I, St. Paul II
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Toilet seat insignia.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4357420/amp/White-LA-students-told-t-wear-hooped-earrings.html