Cleveland Indians to drop "Indians" from team name after 105 years

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  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    mrussel1 said:
    Aren't the Beastie Boys millionaires because of cultural appropriation?
    I can't understand why they are millionaires at all.  Cultural appropriation aside, I always thought bleeding from the ears was a bad thing, and somehow they built a career around inducing nausea and bleeding from the ears...it's incomprehensible!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,008
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    "Tribe" might not be offensive if the team wasn't already connected to a native american culturally insensitive name. to me that sounds like "Indians Light". 

    and let's be honest, when anyone says the word "tribe", literally zero people get a picture of a group of white people in their head. 
    I don't think that's true at all. A tribe is a word that yes, is Native American in nature, but is used in all sorts of contexts of a group of people with a common set of beliefs, or whatever.  Just like the Strangest Tribe.  To say that literally zero think of white people is kind of silly.  When I say Tribe, I think about Cleveland baseball fans, my fellow fans.  I don't think about Native Americans or anything else.  

    That could be true, but to me, when I hear a white person use the word "tribe", the concept of cultural appropriation pops into  my head.  My step daughter, wonderful, bright, marvelous person that she is, occasionally uses the word "tribe" to describe her circle of friends and every time she does I think it sounds awkward at best.  For one thing, her "tribe", a great bunch of people though they may be, do not fit the definition of tribe...

    "a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader"

    ...because they are an eclectic group that does not fit that definition.  

    There is a modern usage of the term "tribe" with it's own contemporary definition, but that word, used that way, must honestly and unarguably be described as an example of cultural appropriation.  It then becomes an issue how how one feels about cultural appropriation.  Personal, I don't dig it.

    So when a white kid wears Air Jordan's and a flat cap,  is that wrong? It's cultural appropriation by the very definition.  What about when you break dance or play some jazz on your sax. Where's the line between respect and damage?

    Other than traditional costume, I don't think there is a well defined cultural affiliation with clothing.  I will say, at best it looks a bit embarrassing and silly when a rocker like Dee Dee Ramone dresses like a rapper. 

    Mixed race jazz bands go back a long way and few black jazz musicians today or in the past have had strong objections to white musicians playing jazz.  On the other hand, some will strongly object to white jazz musicians being given better opportunity or recognition for the music.  For example, in the early 70's I took a jazz appreciation class at San Francisco state under the tutelage of black recording jazz artist John Handy.  John told us that in many circles, big band jazz was often attributed to white bands like the Glenn Miller Orchestra or Tommy Dorsey's band, etc.  Handy did not object to these bands playing jazz music, but he did object to the fact that they were given credit for creating music that was originally created by and better written and performed  black jazz bands-  orchestras led by the likes of Duke Ellington and Count Basie.  Those white bands were also paid better and given better accommodations. Handy and most other black performers argued rightly that racism was an obvious component in how the music was received and rewarded, but there was no mention of cultural appropriation in white bands playing jazz.  And some of the greatest jazz musicians have had integrated jazz band from Louis Armstrong to Charlie Parker hiring Red Rodney (and having to claim Rodney was an albino black in order to play in some clubs) to Mile Davis working with white musicians.

    So of course cultural appropriation is not a factor in jazz.  But racism certainly has been.
    What you just described is cultural appropriation, isn't it?  Just because it went deep into racism doesn't mean it wasn't appropriation. 

    Well, but not really, but only because Jazz, though primarily black music, is also American music.  An though it was formed by African Americans, as truly American music, it makes sense that it would become inclusive of other cultures while being acknowledged as having originally been created by African Americans.  And again, it was mainly black jazz musicians who made the move to have integrated bands and their intentional inclusion of white musicians into the music removes it from cultural appropriation.  You won't find Native Americans encouraging whites to join in on Ghost Dancing. 

    And I would say traditional music from specific places and times- like, say- Lakota Native American Ghost dance chanting-  is really the only music that could be culturally appropriated.  Jazz and blues have been more evolutionary and broadly inclusive in nature.
    I'm making the point that cultural app is totally common in our country,  from music,  to dress to language.  We used to call it a melting pot of cultures but now it seems to be a negative thing. 

    I'm good with the idea of incorporating ideas in music, dress or whatever as long as it is approved of by all concerned.  But if something specific to a group or culture is appropriated without consent of that culture or group, I would say that is an egregious act of cultural theft, aka cultural appropriation.
    Brian - so I'm not trying to pick you apart, but what does that mean?  The whole culture has to unanimously agree?  Does there have to a vote?  Surely some Black people were uncomfortable with the success of the Beastie Boys.  Should I ditch the records, should they be removed from the HOF, should their records come off the shelf?  The bar you set is unachievable.  How does a culture provide consent?

    Pick away,  ¡No problemo!*
    Not the whole culture, but the majority.
    No vote needed- they speak for themselves.
    Black and Beasties? I don't know enough about rap or hip-hop to speak on that subject.
    Unreachable?  I don't think so.  Just listen to what the people have to say.

    *Analyze that one!  Is my use of Spanish a form of cultural appropriation?  I don't know for sure.  We have a lot of Hispanic people in our neck of the woods and  I've heard Spanish spoken around me all my life.  When I order tacos from Santa Maria Taqueria, I inevitably use some Spanish without really thinking about it.  Am I part Hispanic?  Nope!  Has any Hispanic person ever asked me to not use Spanish?  Nope!



    What if one did, would you stop using it forever?  
    Context? But have you, your race, your belonging, ever been caricatured, ridiculed, been made fun of and denied all the righteous rights of a supposed “constitution?” And dismissed when offended by the caricature but more importantly, the history? Sure you have.
    Read the whole discussion for context.  It's pretty clear that I'm trying to understand and draw distinction regarding melting pot and appropriation.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,008
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    "Tribe" might not be offensive if the team wasn't already connected to a native american culturally insensitive name. to me that sounds like "Indians Light". 

    and let's be honest, when anyone says the word "tribe", literally zero people get a picture of a group of white people in their head. 
    I don't think that's true at all. A tribe is a word that yes, is Native American in nature, but is used in all sorts of contexts of a group of people with a common set of beliefs, or whatever.  Just like the Strangest Tribe.  To say that literally zero think of white people is kind of silly.  When I say Tribe, I think about Cleveland baseball fans, my fellow fans.  I don't think about Native Americans or anything else.  

    That could be true, but to me, when I hear a white person use the word "tribe", the concept of cultural appropriation pops into  my head.  My step daughter, wonderful, bright, marvelous person that she is, occasionally uses the word "tribe" to describe her circle of friends and every time she does I think it sounds awkward at best.  For one thing, her "tribe", a great bunch of people though they may be, do not fit the definition of tribe...

    "a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader"

    ...because they are an eclectic group that does not fit that definition.  

    There is a modern usage of the term "tribe" with it's own contemporary definition, but that word, used that way, must honestly and unarguably be described as an example of cultural appropriation.  It then becomes an issue how how one feels about cultural appropriation.  Personal, I don't dig it.

    So when a white kid wears Air Jordan's and a flat cap,  is that wrong? It's cultural appropriation by the very definition.  What about when you break dance or play some jazz on your sax. Where's the line between respect and damage?

    Other than traditional costume, I don't think there is a well defined cultural affiliation with clothing.  I will say, at best it looks a bit embarrassing and silly when a rocker like Dee Dee Ramone dresses like a rapper. 

    Mixed race jazz bands go back a long way and few black jazz musicians today or in the past have had strong objections to white musicians playing jazz.  On the other hand, some will strongly object to white jazz musicians being given better opportunity or recognition for the music.  For example, in the early 70's I took a jazz appreciation class at San Francisco state under the tutelage of black recording jazz artist John Handy.  John told us that in many circles, big band jazz was often attributed to white bands like the Glenn Miller Orchestra or Tommy Dorsey's band, etc.  Handy did not object to these bands playing jazz music, but he did object to the fact that they were given credit for creating music that was originally created by and better written and performed  black jazz bands-  orchestras led by the likes of Duke Ellington and Count Basie.  Those white bands were also paid better and given better accommodations. Handy and most other black performers argued rightly that racism was an obvious component in how the music was received and rewarded, but there was no mention of cultural appropriation in white bands playing jazz.  And some of the greatest jazz musicians have had integrated jazz band from Louis Armstrong to Charlie Parker hiring Red Rodney (and having to claim Rodney was an albino black in order to play in some clubs) to Mile Davis working with white musicians.

    So of course cultural appropriation is not a factor in jazz.  But racism certainly has been.
    What you just described is cultural appropriation, isn't it?  Just because it went deep into racism doesn't mean it wasn't appropriation. 

    Well, but not really, but only because Jazz, though primarily black music, is also American music.  An though it was formed by African Americans, as truly American music, it makes sense that it would become inclusive of other cultures while being acknowledged as having originally been created by African Americans.  And again, it was mainly black jazz musicians who made the move to have integrated bands and their intentional inclusion of white musicians into the music removes it from cultural appropriation.  You won't find Native Americans encouraging whites to join in on Ghost Dancing. 

    And I would say traditional music from specific places and times- like, say- Lakota Native American Ghost dance chanting-  is really the only music that could be culturally appropriated.  Jazz and blues have been more evolutionary and broadly inclusive in nature.
    I'm making the point that cultural app is totally common in our country,  from music,  to dress to language.  We used to call it a melting pot of cultures but now it seems to be a negative thing. 

    I'm good with the idea of incorporating ideas in music, dress or whatever as long as it is approved of by all concerned.  But if something specific to a group or culture is appropriated without consent of that culture or group, I would say that is an egregious act of cultural theft, aka cultural appropriation.
    Brian - so I'm not trying to pick you apart, but what does that mean?  The whole culture has to unanimously agree?  Does there have to a vote?  Surely some Black people were uncomfortable with the success of the Beastie Boys.  Should I ditch the records, should they be removed from the HOF, should their records come off the shelf?  The bar you set is unachievable.  How does a culture provide consent?

    Pick away,  ¡No problemo!*
    Not the whole culture, but the majority.
    No vote needed- they speak for themselves.
    Black and Beasties? I don't know enough about rap or hip-hop to speak on that subject.
    Unreachable?  I don't think so.  Just listen to what the people have to say.

    *Analyze that one!  Is my use of Spanish a form of cultural appropriation?  I don't know for sure.  We have a lot of Hispanic people in our neck of the woods and  I've heard Spanish spoken around me all my life.  When I order tacos from Santa Maria Taqueria, I inevitably use some Spanish without really thinking about it.  Am I part Hispanic?  Nope!  Has any Hispanic person ever asked me to not use Spanish?  Nope!



    What if one did, would you stop using it forever?  

    ¿Estas loco en la cabeza?  ¡No me tomes el pelo!  Eso no pasaría.



    Je parle Francais, pas de Espanol.
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,968
    rgambs said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Aren't the Beastie Boys millionaires because of cultural appropriation?
    I can't understand why they are millionaires at all.  Cultural appropriation aside, I always thought bleeding from the ears was a bad thing, and somehow they built a career around inducing nausea and bleeding from the ears...it's incomprehensible!
    Hahaha.  I was wondering if you would stop by for this.  You, sir, are wrong!  Beastie Boys were great.  

    Oh, and only people who fail to understand why the name Indians should be changed would suggest The Tribe is a name that would be a good replacement.  This is a very strange discussion.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,008
    F Me In The Brain said:
    rgambs said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Aren't the Beastie Boys millionaires because of cultural appropriation?
    I can't understand why they are millionaires at all.  Cultural appropriation aside, I always thought bleeding from the ears was a bad thing, and somehow they built a career around inducing nausea and bleeding from the ears...it's incomprehensible!
    Hahaha.  I was wondering if you would stop by for this.  You, sir, are wrong!  Beastie Boys were great.  

    Oh, and only people who fail to understand why the name Indians should be changed would suggest The Tribe is a name that would be a good replacement.  This is a very strange discussion.
    I appreciate that you're able to determine my motives and understanding,  particularly when I articulated the opposite. Your ability to see through my lies is truly astounding. I don't know how you became so intuitive considering you've never met me before.  Amazing.  
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,968
    I think it is amazing that everyone can see the logic but you.


    Guess we are all idiots.

    Your reasoning doesn't matter -- I think I do understand that you are attached to the fandom and idea surrounding The Tribe - but that doesn't make it ok.  

    Don't need to explain why - others have done it better than I likely would.  You disagree.  We get it.
    Don't have to meet someone to understand this 
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,008
    F Me In The Brain said:
    I think it is amazing that everyone can see the logic but you.


    Guess we are all idiots.

    Your reasoning doesn't matter -- I think I do understand that you are attached to the fandom and idea surrounding The Tribe - but that doesn't make it ok.  

    Don't need to explain why - others have done it better than I likely would.  You disagree.  We get it.
    Don't have to meet someone to understand this 
    I'm trying to have a debate and discussion.  I didn't scoff and get passive aggressive about it.  Did I call anytime an idiot? Nope.  Did I insult anyone (that's about to change)? Nope.  Can you say the same? I guess you're just the smartest guy here and don't need to engage.  You can just stay above it because the debate is beneath you. Another option is to just not post. 
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,968
    I weighed in to joke with Gambo about The Beasties.

    At that point I commented on what I read on this thread, to this point.  If you don't like it, feel free not to post.  Changing the name from Indians to The Tribe is beyond ridiculous to consider.  
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,008
    F Me In The Brain said:
    I weighed in to joke with Gambo about The Beasties.

    At that point I commented on what I read on this thread, to this point.  If you don't like it, feel free not to post.  Changing the name from Indians to The Tribe is beyond ridiculous to consider.  
    You took a shot at me.  You do that,  I'm going to take a shot back.  Moving to Tribe is so ridiculous that a liberal arts college did the very thing.  I guess the trustees of William and Mary just weren't privileged enough to be educated by you before they made their decision.  


  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    The Cleveland Kibbutz, every member of the tribe gets a standing tryout for some of that MLB gelt.

    Me and my Jewfro are trying out for left field. See you at the Yacob.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,968
    Why would I care what William & Mary did?

    Crusty southern folks are hardly what we should be setting our clocks by.  


    Keep hoping for The Tribe.  You certainly have every right. 

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,968
    dankind said:
    The Cleveland Kibbutz, every member of the tribe gets a standing tryout for some of that MLB gelt.

    Me and my Jewfro are trying out for left field. See you at the Yacob.
    The Yacob.
    :rofl:
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,008
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Why would I care what William & Mary did?

    Crusty southern folks are hardly what we should be setting our clocks by.  


    Keep hoping for The Tribe.  You certainly have every right. 

    Top 10 academic public institution = crusty old southern folks.  You're right as always.  

    I've made it crystal clear that I don't expect the team to do what I suggest.   But I'm sure you knew that because you know everything about me.  
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,968
    Haha.  I like how it boils down to you vs me.  
    I'm competitive about most everything, so this appeals to me.

    If you have a problem with my characterization of The College of William & Mary as crusty southern folks we certainly will agree on very little.
    I'm happy to stand by that.
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,968
    Top 10!
    https://www.insightintodiversity.com/college-of-william-mary-apologizes-for-history-of-slave-labor-racism/
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,008
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Top 10!
    https://www.insightintodiversity.com/college-of-william-mary-apologizes-for-history-of-slave-labor-racism/
    The fact that they apologized for something a few hundred years ago means that they are crusty and old?  Doesn't it tell you the opposite, that they are connected and remorseful about their history?  Something is amiss in your perspective here. 

    The only reason it's about you and me is because you took a shot at me.  Attack my arguments.  Attack my perspective that Tribe may be appropriation but it's not racist.  I welcome that discussion. That's what the debates have been.  But you took a different tact.  You waved it all away and decided it wasn't worth your time to retort, but it was worth your time to take a shot.  
  • F Me In The Brain
    F Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,968
    Wait....I see the commonality here -- both are tone deaf!




    But, but, but....FLORIDA STATE!

    The love he receives is the love that is saved
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,715
    edited December 2020
    It looks to me like what William and Mary did is similar to what other schools with controversial names do. They adopted a mascot that isn’t really connected to the name. For example, I think Mississippi has a bear instead of Colonel Reb and I believe Illinois adopted some sort of an animal as well. I guess the difference is that William and Mary has incorporated it into logos beyond just the fuzzy mascot out on the field.

    https://tribeathletics.com/sports/2018/7/18/william-mary-athletics-logos-and-marks.aspx

    I remember them as the Tribe having feathers in one of their word marks but I guess they’ve  moved on from that.  

    But I don’t think an unrelated mythical creature or animal as a logo works in the majors. I guess we have things like the Capitals using an eagle but I think in the big leagues a primary logo with this much disconnect would be strange. It would be like the Pirates using a wolf or something. 

    The best route to go with that name would be to be like the Packers and simply just use letters (Edit; or maybe like the Phillies Liberty Bell logo...subtl city-related image) and not really have a graphic representation of the name. But as I’ve contended before, they are just as well to do that with their current name.
    Post edited by OnWis97 on
    1995 Milwaukee   1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin   2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley   2025 Nashville (II)
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,008
    F Me In The Brain said:
    Wait....I see the commonality here -- both are tone deaf!




    But, but, but....FLORIDA STATE!

    2006.. The NCAA said the school's "Tribe" nickname was acceptable. But the use of feathers on the logo was not, the NCAA said.

    what a winning argument.  Drop the mic there buddy.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,976
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    "Tribe" might not be offensive if the team wasn't already connected to a native american culturally insensitive name. to me that sounds like "Indians Light". 

    and let's be honest, when anyone says the word "tribe", literally zero people get a picture of a group of white people in their head. 
    I don't think that's true at all. A tribe is a word that yes, is Native American in nature, but is used in all sorts of contexts of a group of people with a common set of beliefs, or whatever.  Just like the Strangest Tribe.  To say that literally zero think of white people is kind of silly.  When I say Tribe, I think about Cleveland baseball fans, my fellow fans.  I don't think about Native Americans or anything else.  

    That could be true, but to me, when I hear a white person use the word "tribe", the concept of cultural appropriation pops into  my head.  My step daughter, wonderful, bright, marvelous person that she is, occasionally uses the word "tribe" to describe her circle of friends and every time she does I think it sounds awkward at best.  For one thing, her "tribe", a great bunch of people though they may be, do not fit the definition of tribe...

    "a social division in a traditional society consisting of families or communities linked by social, economic, religious, or blood ties, with a common culture and dialect, typically having a recognized leader"

    ...because they are an eclectic group that does not fit that definition.  

    There is a modern usage of the term "tribe" with it's own contemporary definition, but that word, used that way, must honestly and unarguably be described as an example of cultural appropriation.  It then becomes an issue how how one feels about cultural appropriation.  Personal, I don't dig it.

    So when a white kid wears Air Jordan's and a flat cap,  is that wrong? It's cultural appropriation by the very definition.  What about when you break dance or play some jazz on your sax. Where's the line between respect and damage?

    Other than traditional costume, I don't think there is a well defined cultural affiliation with clothing.  I will say, at best it looks a bit embarrassing and silly when a rocker like Dee Dee Ramone dresses like a rapper. 

    Mixed race jazz bands go back a long way and few black jazz musicians today or in the past have had strong objections to white musicians playing jazz.  On the other hand, some will strongly object to white jazz musicians being given better opportunity or recognition for the music.  For example, in the early 70's I took a jazz appreciation class at San Francisco state under the tutelage of black recording jazz artist John Handy.  John told us that in many circles, big band jazz was often attributed to white bands like the Glenn Miller Orchestra or Tommy Dorsey's band, etc.  Handy did not object to these bands playing jazz music, but he did object to the fact that they were given credit for creating music that was originally created by and better written and performed  black jazz bands-  orchestras led by the likes of Duke Ellington and Count Basie.  Those white bands were also paid better and given better accommodations. Handy and most other black performers argued rightly that racism was an obvious component in how the music was received and rewarded, but there was no mention of cultural appropriation in white bands playing jazz.  And some of the greatest jazz musicians have had integrated jazz band from Louis Armstrong to Charlie Parker hiring Red Rodney (and having to claim Rodney was an albino black in order to play in some clubs) to Mile Davis working with white musicians.

    So of course cultural appropriation is not a factor in jazz.  But racism certainly has been.
    What you just described is cultural appropriation, isn't it?  Just because it went deep into racism doesn't mean it wasn't appropriation. 

    Well, but not really, but only because Jazz, though primarily black music, is also American music.  An though it was formed by African Americans, as truly American music, it makes sense that it would become inclusive of other cultures while being acknowledged as having originally been created by African Americans.  And again, it was mainly black jazz musicians who made the move to have integrated bands and their intentional inclusion of white musicians into the music removes it from cultural appropriation.  You won't find Native Americans encouraging whites to join in on Ghost Dancing. 

    And I would say traditional music from specific places and times- like, say- Lakota Native American Ghost dance chanting-  is really the only music that could be culturally appropriated.  Jazz and blues have been more evolutionary and broadly inclusive in nature.
    I'm making the point that cultural app is totally common in our country,  from music,  to dress to language.  We used to call it a melting pot of cultures but now it seems to be a negative thing. 

    I'm good with the idea of incorporating ideas in music, dress or whatever as long as it is approved of by all concerned.  But if something specific to a group or culture is appropriated without consent of that culture or group, I would say that is an egregious act of cultural theft, aka cultural appropriation.
    Brian - so I'm not trying to pick you apart, but what does that mean?  The whole culture has to unanimously agree?  Does there have to a vote?  Surely some Black people were uncomfortable with the success of the Beastie Boys.  Should I ditch the records, should they be removed from the HOF, should their records come off the shelf?  The bar you set is unachievable.  How does a culture provide consent?

    Pick away,  ¡No problemo!*
    Not the whole culture, but the majority.
    No vote needed- they speak for themselves.
    Black and Beasties? I don't know enough about rap or hip-hop to speak on that subject.
    Unreachable?  I don't think so.  Just listen to what the people have to say.

    *Analyze that one!  Is my use of Spanish a form of cultural appropriation?  I don't know for sure.  We have a lot of Hispanic people in our neck of the woods and  I've heard Spanish spoken around me all my life.  When I order tacos from Santa Maria Taqueria, I inevitably use some Spanish without really thinking about it.  Am I part Hispanic?  Nope!  Has any Hispanic person ever asked me to not use Spanish?  Nope!



    What if one did, would you stop using it forever?  
    Context? But have you, your race, your belonging, ever been caricatured, ridiculed, been made fun of and denied all the righteous rights of a supposed “constitution?” And dismissed when offended by the caricature but more importantly, the history? Sure you have.
    People go to fairs and theme parks and pay to have a caricature made of themselves.  Is this making fun of yourself or is a caricature just that?  A Caricature with zero meaning behind it?

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