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#46 President Joe Biden

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  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TXPosts: 960
    FiveBelow said:
    Seems someone has a memory issue. Might want to have that checked IMHO but remember, I’m not a doctor.
    Your response to me calling you delusional. Memory seems pretty, pretty, pretty good.

    You got a problem with that? Particularly when its reported in the NY Post article that was shared and then I was accused of "assuming?" Yea, you're right, race doesn't matter. "Delusional?" Do you know the definition of the word and are you qualified to make that diagnosis?

    And I don’t believe you really answered that question. I didn’t say you couldn’t use the word. Nor that you used it incorrectly. You never said, in our exchange, that you were using it as a “descriptor.” Further, based on that exchange, is what I said, “delusional?” Remember the definition posted yesterday.
    It's all there, man. I was incorrect in exchanging the definition with you because it seems there was another poster who took offense to the use of the "D" word, due to its relation with their occupation. Like I said, just a little friendly fire and if you can't draw a comparison, I will not lose any sleep over it.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,620
    edited January 7
    I don’t know what more anyone expected from trump and the vaccine. He bragged about being responsible for creating it during e campaign. From what I recall, no one thought it needed to be promoted for months after it was available. They thought there’d be a shortage, I remember a story about a nurse stuck in traffic or snow or something and having a couple doses on her, so she gave them to some strangers in the road so they wouldn’t go to waste. Biden said many times he wouldn’t mandate it, and I assume because he thought the number of people not getting it would be very small and inconsequential. As did almost everyone. It wasn’t until early summer we saw this surplus of vaccines and people not taking them, by then trump had been out of office and banned from social media for 5 or 6 months and not really doing interviews..
    Im not saying he would be doing a good job promoting it if he was still in office, but given the circumstances I don’t see where he needed to promote it more.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 41,558
    edited January 7
    mace1229 said:
    I don’t know what more anyone expected from trump and the vaccine. He bragged about being responsible for creating it during e campaign. From what I recall, no one thought it needed to be promoted for months after it was available. They thought there’d be a shortage, I remember a story about a nurse stuck in traffic or snow or something and having a couple doses on her, so she gave them to some strangers in the road so they wouldn’t go to waste. Biden said many times he wouldn’t mandate it, and I assume because he thought the number of people not getting it would be very small and inconsequential. As did almost everyone. It wasn’t until early summer we saw this surplus of vaccines and people not taking them, by then trump had been out of office and banned from social media for 5 or 6 months and not really doing interviews..
    Im not saying he would be doing a good job promoting it if he was still in office, but given the circumstances I don’t see where he needed to promote it more.
    You don't know what more anyone expected from Trump and the vaccine? I literally answered that question minutes ago. We knew as early as last Spring that the number of people getting vaccinated was slowing down and we knew they were Trump supporters not getting them. Polling has showed this for a long time. 


    Just imagine, for just a minute, that he devoted as much time and effort into getting his supporters vaccinated as he's done with convincing them of an absolute fairytale that he actually won an election that he lost by 7 millions votes. Think about it. Every time he opened his mouth, sent a tweet, or issued some kind of press release for the last 15 months he has hammered home the fact that the election was stolen from him. He has trained these people like we train our dogs. Never in the history of this country have we questioned the results of an election. Yet here we are where millions and millions and millions of people actually do believe it, without a shred of evidence supporting such nonsense. 

    And how, exactly, would you say he has promoted the vaccine? I don't think he has at all. Sure he has answered questions about it from time to time. But even his answers are tepid as he always has to do the "yeah but" regarding people's freedoms and shit, which just serves as green light to the unvaccinated to stay that way and put more people at risk. 

    Actually promoting it would be not just mentioning it at a rally. It would be holding socially distanced, outdoor rallies devoted to informing people of the benefits of vaccines, it would be using his influence on social media (all his dumb election rants still get posted and shared by millions-imagine if all of those were about the benefits of vaccines), it would be going on 60 Minutes instead of Candace Owen's podcast to talk exclusively about Covid/vaccines, it'd be getting his Fox advisors (Hannity, Tucker, and Ingraham) on board with him, it would be getting the shot on television like countless other politicians did, doing public service announcements like all the other former presidents did, and just actively making it his main talking point instead of whining about the election. All of this stuff would be actively promoting to me. Just answering questions a few times over the last year is not promotion in my estimation. At all. In fact, I bet you can probably count the number of times he's told people to get vaccinated, unprompted on one hand.

    Would all this result in an additional 10-20 million more people getting vaccinated? No. Would it move the need with at least a good chuck of those folks? Yeah, I believe it would have and we'd be in a better spot right now as a result.  



    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 41,558
    edited January 7
    I'd also add that the number of Republicans who believe in the fairytale of a stolen election has grown steadily throughout this year when Trump was off Twitter. So if the argument is that he doesn't have the same kind of sway he used to, that's just not true. The entire Republican party still considers him their leader.....which is batshit crazy for a twice impeached one term president, but this is America in 2022. 
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,583
    And imagine if POOTWH hadn't told 8 or 9 lies a day every day and instead told 8 or 9 truths about vaccines and vaccination per day. Or instead of admitting to Bob Woodward that he knew of the danger and deadliness of the virus and then went out and said "it'll be gone by Easter, it'll go away with warm weather or like a miracle," he went before the American public on multiple occasions and implored folks to take this seriously, listen to their health care professionals and scientists and to get vaccinated when a vaccine becomes available. Imagine if he had done that? Shit, he'd be the POTUS instead of the pretend POTUS.

    Seems the rehabilitation of POOTWH's image for 2024 has begun. Good luck 'Murica.
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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,063
    That speech Joe gave came off as a grumpy old man…I expected him to yell “Putin get off the whitehouse lawn.”…I kid.   Good speech.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 41,558
    And imagine if POOTWH hadn't told 8 or 9 lies a day every day and instead told 8 or 9 truths about vaccines and vaccination per day. Or instead of admitting to Bob Woodward that he knew of the danger and deadliness of the virus and then went out and said "it'll be gone by Easter, it'll go away with warm weather or like a miracle," he went before the American public on multiple occasions and implored folks to take this seriously, listen to their health care professionals and scientists and to get vaccinated when a vaccine becomes available. Imagine if he had done that? Shit, he'd be the POTUS instead of the pretend POTUS.

    Seems the rehabilitation of POOTWH's image for 2024 has begun. Good luck 'Murica.
    Absolutely. I don't see how anyone can say "I don't know what more he could've done" with a straight face. Flies directly in the face of reality. 
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,620
    mace1229 said:
    I don’t know what more anyone expected from trump and the vaccine. He bragged about being responsible for creating it during e campaign. From what I recall, no one thought it needed to be promoted for months after it was available. They thought there’d be a shortage, I remember a story about a nurse stuck in traffic or snow or something and having a couple doses on her, so she gave them to some strangers in the road so they wouldn’t go to waste. Biden said many times he wouldn’t mandate it, and I assume because he thought the number of people not getting it would be very small and inconsequential. As did almost everyone. It wasn’t until early summer we saw this surplus of vaccines and people not taking them, by then trump had been out of office and banned from social media for 5 or 6 months and not really doing interviews..
    Im not saying he would be doing a good job promoting it if he was still in office, but given the circumstances I don’t see where he needed to promote it more.
    You don't know what more anyone expected from Trump and the vaccine? I literally answered that question minutes ago. We knew as early as last Spring that the number of people getting vaccinated was slowing down and we knew they were Trump supporters not getting them. Polling has showed this for a long time. 


    Just imagine, for just a minute, that he devoted as much time and effort into getting his supporters vaccinated as he's done with convincing them of an absolute fairytale that he actually won an election that he lost by 7 millions votes. Think about it. Every time he opened his mouth, sent a tweet, or issued some kind of press release for the last 15 months he has hammered home the fact that the election was stolen from him. He has trained these people like we train our dogs. Never in the history of this country have we questioned the results of an election. Yet here we are where millions and millions and millions of people actually do believe it, without a shred of evidence supporting such nonsense. 

    And how, exactly, would you say he has promoted the vaccine? I don't think he has at all. Sure he has answered questions about it from time to time. But even his answers are tepid as he always has to do the "yeah but" regarding people's freedoms and shit, which just serves as green light to the unvaccinated to stay that way and put more people at risk. 

    Actually promoting it would be not just mentioning it at a rally. It would be holding socially distanced, outdoor rallies devoted to informing people of the benefits of vaccines, it would be using his influence on social media (all his dumb election rants still get posted and shared by millions-imagine if all of those were about the benefits of vaccines), it would be going on 60 Minutes instead of Candace Owen's podcast to talk exclusively about Covid/vaccines, it'd be getting his Fox advisors (Hannity, Tucker, and Ingraham) on board with him, it would be getting the shot on television like countless other politicians did, doing public service announcements like all the other former presidents did, and just actively making it his main talking point instead of whining about the election. All of this stuff would be actively promoting to me. Just answering questions a few times over the last year is not promotion in my estimation. At all. In fact, I bet you can probably count the number of times he's told people to get vaccinated, unprompted on one hand.

    Would all this result in an additional 10-20 million more people getting vaccinated? No. Would it move the need with at least a good chuck of those folks? Yeah, I believe it would have and we'd be in a better spot right now as a result.  



    Yes, they knew in spring. He had also been out of office for several months, banned from social media, and not doing interviews. So it’s about the level of promotion I expected.
  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TXPosts: 960
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 41,558
    edited January 7
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don’t know what more anyone expected from trump and the vaccine. He bragged about being responsible for creating it during e campaign. From what I recall, no one thought it needed to be promoted for months after it was available. They thought there’d be a shortage, I remember a story about a nurse stuck in traffic or snow or something and having a couple doses on her, so she gave them to some strangers in the road so they wouldn’t go to waste. Biden said many times he wouldn’t mandate it, and I assume because he thought the number of people not getting it would be very small and inconsequential. As did almost everyone. It wasn’t until early summer we saw this surplus of vaccines and people not taking them, by then trump had been out of office and banned from social media for 5 or 6 months and not really doing interviews..
    Im not saying he would be doing a good job promoting it if he was still in office, but given the circumstances I don’t see where he needed to promote it more.
    You don't know what more anyone expected from Trump and the vaccine? I literally answered that question minutes ago. We knew as early as last Spring that the number of people getting vaccinated was slowing down and we knew they were Trump supporters not getting them. Polling has showed this for a long time. 


    Just imagine, for just a minute, that he devoted as much time and effort into getting his supporters vaccinated as he's done with convincing them of an absolute fairytale that he actually won an election that he lost by 7 millions votes. Think about it. Every time he opened his mouth, sent a tweet, or issued some kind of press release for the last 15 months he has hammered home the fact that the election was stolen from him. He has trained these people like we train our dogs. Never in the history of this country have we questioned the results of an election. Yet here we are where millions and millions and millions of people actually do believe it, without a shred of evidence supporting such nonsense. 

    And how, exactly, would you say he has promoted the vaccine? I don't think he has at all. Sure he has answered questions about it from time to time. But even his answers are tepid as he always has to do the "yeah but" regarding people's freedoms and shit, which just serves as green light to the unvaccinated to stay that way and put more people at risk. 

    Actually promoting it would be not just mentioning it at a rally. It would be holding socially distanced, outdoor rallies devoted to informing people of the benefits of vaccines, it would be using his influence on social media (all his dumb election rants still get posted and shared by millions-imagine if all of those were about the benefits of vaccines), it would be going on 60 Minutes instead of Candace Owen's podcast to talk exclusively about Covid/vaccines, it'd be getting his Fox advisors (Hannity, Tucker, and Ingraham) on board with him, it would be getting the shot on television like countless other politicians did, doing public service announcements like all the other former presidents did, and just actively making it his main talking point instead of whining about the election. All of this stuff would be actively promoting to me. Just answering questions a few times over the last year is not promotion in my estimation. At all. In fact, I bet you can probably count the number of times he's told people to get vaccinated, unprompted on one hand.

    Would all this result in an additional 10-20 million more people getting vaccinated? No. Would it move the need with at least a good chuck of those folks? Yeah, I believe it would have and we'd be in a better spot right now as a result.  



    Yes, they knew in spring. He had also been out of office for several months, banned from social media, and not doing interviews. So it’s about the level of promotion I expected.
    Yeah? Well then how do you square that with the enormous amount of success he's had promoting the lie that the election was stolen from him?

    Makes no sense Mace. If what you are saying is true, then 71% of republicans would not think the election was illegitimate. They believe that because of everything I mentioned above. Had he put that same effort into saving people's lives with the vaccine, we would likely not be in this current mess. 

    https://polsci.umass.edu/toplines-and-crosstabs-december-2021-national-poll-presidential-election-jan-6th-insurrection-us



    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,974
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 41,558
    edited January 7
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    The only way non Trump supporters would not take the vaccine would be if Trump succeeded in having it rushed out right before the election like he kept saying he would in 2020. 

    That, of course, was yet another example of Trump undermining the vaccine effort. 
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,974
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    The only way non Trump supporters would not take the vaccine would be if Trump succeeded in having it rushed out right before the election like he kept saying he would in 2020. 

    That, of course, was yet another example of Trump undermining the vaccine effort. 
    Right,  exactly.  He would promote it to its own detriment. He'd want to include it with every steak you bought,  and include his brand somehow. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,620
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don’t know what more anyone expected from trump and the vaccine. He bragged about being responsible for creating it during e campaign. From what I recall, no one thought it needed to be promoted for months after it was available. They thought there’d be a shortage, I remember a story about a nurse stuck in traffic or snow or something and having a couple doses on her, so she gave them to some strangers in the road so they wouldn’t go to waste. Biden said many times he wouldn’t mandate it, and I assume because he thought the number of people not getting it would be very small and inconsequential. As did almost everyone. It wasn’t until early summer we saw this surplus of vaccines and people not taking them, by then trump had been out of office and banned from social media for 5 or 6 months and not really doing interviews..
    Im not saying he would be doing a good job promoting it if he was still in office, but given the circumstances I don’t see where he needed to promote it more.
    You don't know what more anyone expected from Trump and the vaccine? I literally answered that question minutes ago. We knew as early as last Spring that the number of people getting vaccinated was slowing down and we knew they were Trump supporters not getting them. Polling has showed this for a long time. 


    Just imagine, for just a minute, that he devoted as much time and effort into getting his supporters vaccinated as he's done with convincing them of an absolute fairytale that he actually won an election that he lost by 7 millions votes. Think about it. Every time he opened his mouth, sent a tweet, or issued some kind of press release for the last 15 months he has hammered home the fact that the election was stolen from him. He has trained these people like we train our dogs. Never in the history of this country have we questioned the results of an election. Yet here we are where millions and millions and millions of people actually do believe it, without a shred of evidence supporting such nonsense. 

    And how, exactly, would you say he has promoted the vaccine? I don't think he has at all. Sure he has answered questions about it from time to time. But even his answers are tepid as he always has to do the "yeah but" regarding people's freedoms and shit, which just serves as green light to the unvaccinated to stay that way and put more people at risk. 

    Actually promoting it would be not just mentioning it at a rally. It would be holding socially distanced, outdoor rallies devoted to informing people of the benefits of vaccines, it would be using his influence on social media (all his dumb election rants still get posted and shared by millions-imagine if all of those were about the benefits of vaccines), it would be going on 60 Minutes instead of Candace Owen's podcast to talk exclusively about Covid/vaccines, it'd be getting his Fox advisors (Hannity, Tucker, and Ingraham) on board with him, it would be getting the shot on television like countless other politicians did, doing public service announcements like all the other former presidents did, and just actively making it his main talking point instead of whining about the election. All of this stuff would be actively promoting to me. Just answering questions a few times over the last year is not promotion in my estimation. At all. In fact, I bet you can probably count the number of times he's told people to get vaccinated, unprompted on one hand.

    Would all this result in an additional 10-20 million more people getting vaccinated? No. Would it move the need with at least a good chuck of those folks? Yeah, I believe it would have and we'd be in a better spot right now as a result.  



    Yes, they knew in spring. He had also been out of office for several months, banned from social media, and not doing interviews. So it’s about the level of promotion I expected.
    Yeah? Well then how do you square that with the enormous amount of success he's had promoting the lie that the election was stolen from him?

    Makes no sense Mace. If what you are saying is true, then 71% of republicans would not think the election was illegitimate. They believe that because of everything I mentioned above. Had he put that same effort into saving people's lives with the vaccine, we would likely not be in this current mess. 

    https://polsci.umass.edu/toplines-and-crosstabs-december-2021-national-poll-presidential-election-jan-6th-insurrection-us



    I didn’t know it was that many. That’s kinda sad. And by kinda, I mean a lot.
    But is Trump still out there giving rallies and posting on social media, or is this what they believed at election time and just haven’t changed their minds? And there’s plenty of people still out there pushing the fraud to where Trump doesn’t need to. 
    I don’t pay attention to anything Trump does. I haven’t even opened the Trump thread since probably February last year because just don’t care. I considered him a has-been. Didn’t think he’d ever run again, he wouldn’t want to face another election loss. So from that view, a has-been politician, staying out of the spotlight and banned from online, I wouldn’t expect much from him. George W isn’t promoting the vaccine either, but who cares?
    Im starting to come around that he will run again, but only because of Biden’s polls. He might think it would mean victory and is considering it. He would never admit to not running. I had assumed and hoped Biden to be performing much better in the polls, then see trump give some reason why he shouldn’t run again in a couple years because he’s afraid to lose twice. But that’s just the last couple months and we’re talking about something from almost a year ago.
  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TXPosts: 960
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    The only way non Trump supporters would not take the vaccine would be if Trump succeeded in having it rushed out right before the election like he kept saying he would in 2020. 

    That, of course, was yet another example of Trump undermining the vaccine effort. 
    Are you saying there aren’t any non trump supporters or democrats currently unvaccinated? 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,864
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.

    except pfizer developed theirs independently of the government and was given emergency  use authorization first
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  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TXPosts: 960
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    Maybe, maybe not. I still think there are those who make their own decisions regardless of what the popular opinion is.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,974
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    Maybe, maybe not. I still think there are those who make their own decisions regardless of what the popular opinion is.
    Sure, I agree.  I do think if Trump would have done PSAs and generally rip down the crazy excuses,  it would have helped.  Not bring us to 100% but maybe 10 percentage points higher. 
  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TXPosts: 960
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    Maybe, maybe not. I still think there are those who make their own decisions regardless of what the popular opinion is.
    Sure, I agree.  I do think if Trump would have done PSAs and generally rip down the crazy excuses,  it would have helped.  Not bring us to 100% but maybe 10 percentage points higher. 
    Fair enough. Although, I think we would be kidding ourselves to say that it would have been enough to appease the dems.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,974
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    Maybe, maybe not. I still think there are those who make their own decisions regardless of what the popular opinion is.
    Sure, I agree.  I do think if Trump would have done PSAs and generally rip down the crazy excuses,  it would have helped.  Not bring us to 100% but maybe 10 percentage points higher. 
    Fair enough. Although, I think we would be kidding ourselves to say that it would have been enough to appease the dems.
    I'm a D and would have been thrilled if he did PSAs and anything he could to de-politicize the vaccines. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 6,620
    mickeyrat said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.

    except pfizer developed theirs independently of the government and was given emergency  use authorization first
    Only partially. It wasn’t completely independent, just not to the extent other companies did. They had an agreement with the government to sell $2 billion worth of vaccine once it was completed, several months before it was. 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,806
    mace1229 said:
    I don’t know what more anyone expected from trump and the vaccine. He bragged about being responsible for creating it during e campaign. From what I recall, no one thought it needed to be promoted for months after it was available. They thought there’d be a shortage, I remember a story about a nurse stuck in traffic or snow or something and having a couple doses on her, so she gave them to some strangers in the road so they wouldn’t go to waste. Biden said many times he wouldn’t mandate it, and I assume because he thought the number of people not getting it would be very small and inconsequential. As did almost everyone. It wasn’t until early summer we saw this surplus of vaccines and people not taking them, by then trump had been out of office and banned from social media for 5 or 6 months and not really doing interviews..
    Im not saying he would be doing a good job promoting it if he was still in office, but given the circumstances I don’t see where he needed to promote it more.
    You don't know what more anyone expected from Trump and the vaccine? I literally answered that question minutes ago. We knew as early as last Spring that the number of people getting vaccinated was slowing down and we knew they were Trump supporters not getting them. Polling has showed this for a long time. 


    Just imagine, for just a minute, that he devoted as much time and effort into getting his supporters vaccinated as he's done with convincing them of an absolute fairytale that he actually won an election that he lost by 7 millions votes. Think about it. Every time he opened his mouth, sent a tweet, or issued some kind of press release for the last 15 months he has hammered home the fact that the election was stolen from him. He has trained these people like we train our dogs. Never in the history of this country have we questioned the results of an election. Yet here we are where millions and millions and millions of people actually do believe it, without a shred of evidence supporting such nonsense. 

    And how, exactly, would you say he has promoted the vaccine? I don't think he has at all. Sure he has answered questions about it from time to time. But even his answers are tepid as he always has to do the "yeah but" regarding people's freedoms and shit, which just serves as green light to the unvaccinated to stay that way and put more people at risk. 

    Actually promoting it would be not just mentioning it at a rally. It would be holding socially distanced, outdoor rallies devoted to informing people of the benefits of vaccines, it would be using his influence on social media (all his dumb election rants still get posted and shared by millions-imagine if all of those were about the benefits of vaccines), it would be going on 60 Minutes instead of Candace Owen's podcast to talk exclusively about Covid/vaccines, it'd be getting his Fox advisors (Hannity, Tucker, and Ingraham) on board with him, it would be getting the shot on television like countless other politicians did, doing public service announcements like all the other former presidents did, and just actively making it his main talking point instead of whining about the election. All of this stuff would be actively promoting to me. Just answering questions a few times over the last year is not promotion in my estimation. At all. In fact, I bet you can probably count the number of times he's told people to get vaccinated, unprompted on one hand.

    Would all this result in an additional 10-20 million more people getting vaccinated? No. Would it move the need with at least a good chuck of those folks? Yeah, I believe it would have and we'd be in a better spot right now as a result.  



    If tRump would have been re-elected he would have been pushing that vaccine all the way. He lost so he (now the right wing media) does everything he can to sabotage Biden.
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,430
    edited January 8
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    Maybe, maybe not. I still think there are those who make their own decisions regardless of what the popular opinion is.
    Sure, I agree.  I do think if Trump would have done PSAs and generally rip down the crazy excuses,  it would have helped.  Not bring us to 100% but maybe 10 percentage points higher. 
    Fair enough. Although, I think we would be kidding ourselves to say that it would have been enough to appease the dems.
    I'm a D and would have been thrilled if he did PSAs and anything he could to de-politicize the vaccines. 
    i agree. a normal person in the role of former president would have been standing right next to obama, w, clinton, and carter to get the vaccine all together. instead he attacked all of those former presidents, and attacked the same vaccine he tried to put his name on.

    i think he is just bitter because he could not put his name on it and call it the trump vaccine.

    biden has given him credit in speeches for operation warp speed several times, even though pfizer was not part of that, and it was still not enough balm to soothe trump's butthurt.
    Post edited by gimmesometruth27 on
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 12,806
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    mrussel1 said:
    FiveBelow said:
    Is it also not plausible that had trump been overly promoting the vaccine there would have been an equal amount of kickback from his opposition? How many democrats would have said “I will never take the trump vaccine”? Given the constant bitch-fest between the 2 parties, I think it is worth considering. I also think it comes down to the fact that regardless of the topic or political affiliation, there will always be those who will make their own decisions, no matter what their “leaders” say.
    Not with Biden and the CDC promoting it too,  I don't think so. 
    Maybe, maybe not. I still think there are those who make their own decisions regardless of what the popular opinion is.
    Sure, I agree.  I do think if Trump would have done PSAs and generally rip down the crazy excuses,  it would have helped.  Not bring us to 100% but maybe 10 percentage points higher. 
    Fair enough. Although, I think we would be kidding ourselves to say that it would have been enough to appease the dems.
    I'm a D and would have been thrilled if he did PSAs and anything he could to de-politicize the vaccines. 
    i agree. a normal person in the role of former president would have been standing right next to obama, w, clinton, and carter to get the vaccine all together. instead he attacked all of those former presidents, and attacked the same vaccine he tried to put his name on.

    i think he is just bitter because he could not put his name on it and call it the trump vaccine.

    biden has given him credit in speeches for operation warp speed several times, even though pfizer was not part of that, and it was still not enough balm to soothe trump's butthurt.
    totally agree....kind of like Dick Cheney showing up at the House the other day
    Remember the Thomas Nine!! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley #1, Wrigley #2, Boston #1, Boston #2
    2020: Oakland1, Oakland2:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 41,558
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don’t know what more anyone expected from trump and the vaccine. He bragged about being responsible for creating it during e campaign. From what I recall, no one thought it needed to be promoted for months after it was available. They thought there’d be a shortage, I remember a story about a nurse stuck in traffic or snow or something and having a couple doses on her, so she gave them to some strangers in the road so they wouldn’t go to waste. Biden said many times he wouldn’t mandate it, and I assume because he thought the number of people not getting it would be very small and inconsequential. As did almost everyone. It wasn’t until early summer we saw this surplus of vaccines and people not taking them, by then trump had been out of office and banned from social media for 5 or 6 months and not really doing interviews..
    Im not saying he would be doing a good job promoting it if he was still in office, but given the circumstances I don’t see where he needed to promote it more.
    You don't know what more anyone expected from Trump and the vaccine? I literally answered that question minutes ago. We knew as early as last Spring that the number of people getting vaccinated was slowing down and we knew they were Trump supporters not getting them. Polling has showed this for a long time. 


    Just imagine, for just a minute, that he devoted as much time and effort into getting his supporters vaccinated as he's done with convincing them of an absolute fairytale that he actually won an election that he lost by 7 millions votes. Think about it. Every time he opened his mouth, sent a tweet, or issued some kind of press release for the last 15 months he has hammered home the fact that the election was stolen from him. He has trained these people like we train our dogs. Never in the history of this country have we questioned the results of an election. Yet here we are where millions and millions and millions of people actually do believe it, without a shred of evidence supporting such nonsense. 

    And how, exactly, would you say he has promoted the vaccine? I don't think he has at all. Sure he has answered questions about it from time to time. But even his answers are tepid as he always has to do the "yeah but" regarding people's freedoms and shit, which just serves as green light to the unvaccinated to stay that way and put more people at risk. 

    Actually promoting it would be not just mentioning it at a rally. It would be holding socially distanced, outdoor rallies devoted to informing people of the benefits of vaccines, it would be using his influence on social media (all his dumb election rants still get posted and shared by millions-imagine if all of those were about the benefits of vaccines), it would be going on 60 Minutes instead of Candace Owen's podcast to talk exclusively about Covid/vaccines, it'd be getting his Fox advisors (Hannity, Tucker, and Ingraham) on board with him, it would be getting the shot on television like countless other politicians did, doing public service announcements like all the other former presidents did, and just actively making it his main talking point instead of whining about the election. All of this stuff would be actively promoting to me. Just answering questions a few times over the last year is not promotion in my estimation. At all. In fact, I bet you can probably count the number of times he's told people to get vaccinated, unprompted on one hand.

    Would all this result in an additional 10-20 million more people getting vaccinated? No. Would it move the need with at least a good chuck of those folks? Yeah, I believe it would have and we'd be in a better spot right now as a result.  



    Yes, they knew in spring. He had also been out of office for several months, banned from social media, and not doing interviews. So it’s about the level of promotion I expected.
    Yeah? Well then how do you square that with the enormous amount of success he's had promoting the lie that the election was stolen from him?

    Makes no sense Mace. If what you are saying is true, then 71% of republicans would not think the election was illegitimate. They believe that because of everything I mentioned above. Had he put that same effort into saving people's lives with the vaccine, we would likely not be in this current mess. 

    https://polsci.umass.edu/toplines-and-crosstabs-december-2021-national-poll-presidential-election-jan-6th-insurrection-us



    I didn’t know it was that many. That’s kinda sad. And by kinda, I mean a lot.
    But is Trump still out there giving rallies and posting on social media, or is this what they believed at election time and just haven’t changed their minds? And there’s plenty of people still out there pushing the fraud to where Trump doesn’t need to. 
    I don’t pay attention to anything Trump does. I haven’t even opened the Trump thread since probably February last year because just don’t care. I considered him a has-been. Didn’t think he’d ever run again, he wouldn’t want to face another election loss. So from that view, a has-been politician, staying out of the spotlight and banned from online, I wouldn’t expect much from him. George W isn’t promoting the vaccine either, but who cares?
    Im starting to come around that he will run again, but only because of Biden’s polls. He might think it would mean victory and is considering it. He would never admit to not running. I had assumed and hoped Biden to be performing much better in the polls, then see trump give some reason why he shouldn’t run again in a couple years because he’s afraid to lose twice. But that’s just the last couple months and we’re talking about something from almost a year ago.
    Yeah, the issue here, as you say, is just that you are not paying attention. Comparing his influence to a president from 20 years ago, who almost all Trump supporters dislike also makes no sense. I'd pay more attention to Trump, unfortunately. 


    chinese-happy.jpg
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,864
     


    Biden challenges Senate on voting: 'Tired of being quiet!'
    By ALEXANDRA JAFFE, COLLEEN LONG and JEFF AMY
    Yesterday

    ATLANTA (AP) — Pounding his hand for emphasis, President Joe Biden challenged senators Tuesday to “stand against voter suppression” by changing Senate rules to pass voting rights legislation that Republicans are blocking from debate and votes.

    Biden told a crowd in Atlanta gathered on the grounds of Morehouse College and Clark Atlanta University that he'd been having quiet conversations with senators for months over the two bills — a lack of progress that has brought him criticism from activists in his own party.

    “I’m tired of being quiet!" he shouted to cheers from the crowd.

    In his remarks, Biden invoked the civil rights battles of the 1960s. He likened the wrongs of the past to modern-day efforts to subvert elections through the Capitol riot a year ago and a series of GOP-backed laws passed after former President Donald Trump lost in 2020 and then falsely claimed widespread voter fraud. Biden chastised Republicans for falling in line behind Trump's election lies.

    “Today, we call on Congress to get done what history will judge," Biden said. "Pass the freedom to vote act.”

    Biden’s speech was forceful, blunt and explicit, referring to new efforts to limit voting access as “Jim Crow 2.0.” For the first time, he directly advocated eliminating the Senate's vote-blocking device called the filibuster in order to debate and vote on election and voting rights legislation. Though his focus brings more national attention to the debate ahead, it's not clear what impact his newfound fire will have.

    Current rules require 60 votes to advance most legislation — a threshold that Senate Democrats can’t meet alone because they have just a 50-50 majority with Vice President Kamala Harris to break ties. Republicans unanimously oppose the voting rights measures.

    There also aren’t enough Democratic votes to change the Senate rule. West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin threw more cold water on the idea Tuesday, saying he believes any changes should be made with substantial Republican buy-in. And there aren’t any Republican senators willing to sign on.

    “Not a single Republican has displayed the courage to stand up to a defeated president to protect Americans’ right to vote," Biden said. "Not one. Not one.”


    continues....


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,063
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/us-inflation-1.6312003

    U.S. inflation rises to yet another 40-year high of 7%

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 566
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/us-inflation-1.6312003

    U.S. inflation rises to yet another 40-year high of 7%


    Let's Go Brandon!
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 29,307
    if it happens to trump: coronavirus/previous admin fault
    if it happens to biden: utter failure
    ....courage is fear that just said its prayers....


  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 566
    if it happens to trump: coronavirus/previous admin fault
    if it happens to biden: utter failure
    Was inflation out of control when Trump was in office?
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