#46 President Joe Biden
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What were Manchin’s votes on the debt ceiling when the POOTWH Administration added $8T to the debt and gave tax cuts to the wealthiest among us, paid for by GDP growth at 4% a quarter, quarter over quarter, year over year, for ten years, knowing that that was nowhere near possible? Not to mention the lying sack of shit knew what his “magic number” was back in July. Fucker should follow his heart and join the repub party. And that $3.5T is over 10 years.Lerxst1992 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Remind me again of what value Manchin and Sinema bring to the party?
Sinema, from WaPo:However the battle over President Biden’s agenda turns out, this ugly saga will accomplish something crucial: It will separate Democrats who take their role as public servants seriously from those who are operating with such epic levels of bad faith that they are essentially insulting the intelligence of their own constituents.
Rep. Katie Porter (D-Calif.) just delivered a sharp dressing down to Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) that neatly crystallizes this contrast. Many progressives are hammering Sinema, of course, but Porter’s broadside captures something essential about what we’re seeing from the senator, and by extension, about the crossroads that Democrats now face.
That essential point is this: Public servants should feel a basic obligation to level with the voters who granted them the privilege of being their representatives. While more may be happening in private talks than we know, all signs are that Sinema’s caginess is edging toward a level of deceptiveness that borders on betrayal of public duty.
Speaking on MSNBC, Porter lambasted Sinema for refusing to specify what she’ll accept in the multitrillion-dollar bill Democrats hope to pass through reconciliation. House progressives are threatening to vote down the smaller bipartisan infrastructure bill that already passed the Senate, to pressure centrists to negotiate the reconciliation bill in good faith.
Porter told host Lawrence O’Donnell that progressives would make good on that threat in the infrastructure vote set for Thursday, and added:
Until Senator Sinema and Senator Manchin are able to come up with what they want, to do for their constituents, to do for the American people — until Senator Sinema stops being cute, and starts doing her job and leading for the people of Arizona — we’re simply not going to be able to move the president’s agenda forward.O’Donnell pointed out that if centrists get the infrastructure bill passed, they’ll be liberated from having to support a robust reconciliation bill later.
“I think that’s really irresponsible to their constituents and to the people of this country,” Porter replied. The reconciliation bill, Porter noted, will provide more home care to the elderly and child-care assistance that helps more women enter the workforce, and will expand health care to enable more workers to stay healthy and productive.
“I was elected to create a strong and stable and globally competitive economy,” Porter continued, adding that if Sinema and Manchin “really believe” the infrastructure bill alone will accomplish this, “they owe it to the American people to say that.”
Stressing that it’s impossible to negotiate until centrists say what they want, Porter added:
I was not elected to read the mind of Kyrsten Sinema. Thank goodness, because I have no idea what she’s thinking.
Opinion | Katie Porter’s sharp criticism of Kyrsten Sinema over reconciliation reveals an important truth - The Washington Post
On Manchin, from Letter From an American:This bill was hammered out earlier in September by a group of senators trying to find common ground with conservative Democrat Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who objected to the sweeping For the People Act passed by the House. The Freedom to Vote Act pared down that larger bill but retained its most important pieces. It creates a national standard for voting rules and tries to stop voter suppression, modernizes voter registration, and replaces old, paperless voting machines with new ones that have a voter-verified paper trail. It slows the flood of money into our elections and ends partisan gerrymandering. It establishes strict rules for post-election audits.This defense of voting is popular. A Data for Progress poll found that 70% of likely voters support the act. That number includes 85% of self-identified Democrats, 67% of Independents, and 54% of Republicans.Manchin maintains that he can find 10 Republican senators to join the Democrats to get 60 votes, enabling the measure to overcome a Republican filibuster. But there is, so far, no sign that those votes are materializing, and every day that goes by brings us closer to having gerrymandered district lines hardened into place before the 2022 election. Indeed, the stonewalling by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) of Democratic attempts to lift the debt ceiling is wasting time that otherwise would be given to the voting rights bill.
Never mind that neither Senator can articulate what changes they'd like to see, only that its too big or too expensive. They both appear to be playing cute. Manchin can't deliver so why isn't President Biden leaning on him, and by extension Sinema? Be an awful shame if the Pentagon closed that base in Prescott or if the FBI offices relocated out of WV. What's the downside? Force their hand. Or get ready to lose the House, Senate and WH. Own it.
More on these two debutantes:Sens. Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema have said President Biden’s $3.5 trillion social spending proposal is too expensive, but they have been reluctant to specify how they want it changed.I’ll take the bait.Do 100% of Democratic Party voters want large tax increases for $3.5T in new spending? Or, did the election result in a 50/50 senate, 3 vote House margin, a POTUS who won by 0.000001% in three swing states and a progressive who was destroyed by the moderate once it was a 1:1 in the democratic primaries?We have allowed AOC and Sanders to wrestle control of the party and are heading for a disaster at the midterms. The only thing keeping us in the game is Manchin fighting virtually alone to get the price tag under $2 trillion. When they call us socialists during the next election, it will be impossible to fight off that argument. Government takeover of child care? Free associates degrees for everyone? Good grief we are getting blasted next year.The dem senators represent 40 million more voters than the repub senators and Biden won by 7 million. The Dems have a political mandate and should spend their political capital. When the money flows and jobs are created those skeptical will come out for Dems. The polling shows majority support for all the spending. Instead Dems wring their hands and look weak. Now that’s a political strategy.
And why the “bait” comment?Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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The last sentence says it all.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/01/opinions/congressional-democrats-manchin-sinema-infrastructure-mitchell/index.html
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he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
McConnell's playbook.
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gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else0 -
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something elseover 10 years the DOD budget is 7.15 trillion or 715 billion for fy 2022. Actually not exactly true as this request is a year by year request and will increase year over year.So asking for 350 billion a year per year for 10 yrs isnt a big ask....._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.Halifax2TheMax said:
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?Scio me nihil scire
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static111 said:
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.Halifax2TheMax said:
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I’d start by telling lying Joe that we’re going to level funding to his state from the feds, ie WV currently receives $2.15 from the feds for every tax dollar their residents pay in. Maybe we’ll give you $1.05 for every dollar your residents pay in. Maybe. Then tell him that we’ll consider relocating every federal agency or office currently located in WV. Residents can keep their jobs if they want to relocate.mickeyrat said:static111 said:
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.Halifax2TheMax said:
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
For Sinema, the same. 41% of AZ State budget relies on federal aid, 5th highest % of 50 states, to the tune of $40B. Also, we’re considering relocating federal agencies and military bases currently located in AZ.
If neither of those garner their attention or support, stripping of committee assignments is on the table. You want to act like repubs, join them, be honest about who you are, and allow the blame where it squarely rests to fall on the repubs.
Dems are doing the difficult work of legislating and the repubs don’t do shit other than to say no and point fingers of blame. At least if they joined the repubs, Dems can blame repubs for nothing getting done except tax cuts.
There are pressing issues facing ‘Murica and the repubs have no solutions nor want any responsibility for addressing them.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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H2TM said it better than I could.mickeyrat said:static111 said:
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.Halifax2TheMax said:
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
static111 said:
H2TM said it better than I could.mickeyrat said:static111 said:
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.Halifax2TheMax said:
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
weak. asked you not him. doubt much of that is doable in the first place.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Schumer could certainly strip them of committee assignments and via EOs relocate federal offices. POOTWH did it to decimate either the EPA or BLM.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Has joe made any public statements about Sinema and Manchin basically keeping everything he was elected for from happening? If not I think that would be a start. Really I agree with Hal, start stripping their funding, see how long they stand firm. If they switch parties, well then we know where we are and will have a reason to try to get more progressive support in 2022. If we let them suck the political capital from the room with none of the major goals getting passed, well then I guess be happy when the are take back over because we stood by Manchin a and Sinema because they had (d) next to their names.mickeyrat said:static111 said:
H2TM said it better than I could.mickeyrat said:static111 said:
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.Halifax2TheMax said:
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
weak. asked you not him. doubt much of that is doable in the first place.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
They both need to be slapped down like the punks they are. Holding a party hostage as hand wringers.static111 said:
Has joe made any public statements about Sinema and Manchin basically keeping everything he was elected for from happening? If not I think that would be a start. Really I agree with Hal, start stripping their funding, see how long they stand firm. If they switch parties, well then we know where we are and will have a reason to try to get more progressive support in 2022. If we let them suck the political capital from the room with none of the major goals getting passed, well then I guess be happy when the are take back over because we stood by Manchin a and Sinema because they had (d) next to their names.mickeyrat said:static111 said:
H2TM said it better than I could.mickeyrat said:static111 said:
Nope I just gave up on the Democratic Party and am not surprised that they would rather capitulate to manchin and his business backers than do what a majority of Americans asked to be delivered. In essence at least this Bernie backer has pretty much checked out. I’m glad Joe got us out of Afghanistan and think he did a great job given the circumstances, but the party moving to the whims of manchin and sinema has really solidified what I thought. Neither party really cares about America. Now all the Dems can scapegoat and blame manchin while nothing gets done and they hand over the machinations to republicans. Sure every 2 to four years I will probably vote blue for the chance some improvements get made, but I’m not holding my breath that anything will actually get done.Halifax2TheMax said:
He’s not “saving us from ourselves.” He’s guaranteeing that repubs will run and get elected on a platform of, “Dems can’t get anything done, have ruined ‘Murica, didn’t keep their promises and only repubs can fix it by cutting taxes.” Thanks Joe, for being honest about what you “knew in your heart.”Lerxst1992 said:gimmesometruth27 said:
he is moving the goalposts. he has no interest in actually passing anything.Halifax2TheMax said:Anyone concerned about Manchin repeatedly lying about what number was acceptable to him for the past three months regarding the infrastructure bill? Or, is he just another politician?
Manchin is the only senator saving us from ourselves. And he actually said no to $3.5T. So we should be moving on to something else
Bernie supporters seem awfully quiet too. Guess they were really repub POOTWH supporters?
given the 50-50 split, just how exactly do you suggest they deal with Manchin and Sinema on this or any other issue they balk at??
weak. asked you not him. doubt much of that is doable in the first place.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
sounds like straight extortion to me.
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Bully pulpit and power of the purse. Straight gangster Mack yo!mickeyrat said:sounds like straight extortion to me.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
static111 said:
What are they doing?mickeyrat said:sounds like straight extortion to me.
I assume representing their constituents
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Manchin can just hold up progress and all the rest of the party can scapegoat that they would have got more accomplished if not for him. Republicans will sweep 22 on the Dems get nothing done and we narrowly avoided socialism platform. If the answer is to just throw up the hands and say there is nothing to do, well what is the point in participating in a system that will lead to the ice caps fully melting and the world burning? It’s getting harder to see a reason to keep participating, but he’s not trump or a Republican isn’t enough anymore, especially if all the collective D party is going to do is delay the inevitable march to destruction.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0
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