Complaining about some fans being outraged over Tenclub fucking up royally and not delivering singles in what has lower betting odds at Vegas on ending up being over a decade than being "soon"..
I fully understand people being outraged over Tenclubs unfathomable poor handling of this and communications skills. Its crazy. Ludacris. On the verge of being - if not stepping over that line already - arrogant.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
The only problem with the restaurant analogy is that the single is not analogous to the steak. The tickets are the steak. The single is more like they forgot to refill your water.
Half the yearly dues were essentially for the single, water is free. So to go with the restaurant analogy, you order a steak dinner plate that comes with a baked potato, salad and grilled veggies. They only bring out a steak. Sure, the steak is what I was really mostly interested in, but I would have gotten the steak a la mode and paid half as much if I didn't want the sides. The only reason I was analog was this vinyl. Thats half the cost of membership. As soon as they did away with it that was an easy choice to go digital.
But the single is free... just like the water. The shirt is $20 in the shop and the bootleg code is $10.
Bingo.
$20 gets ticket access, member sales and contests, forum access, 10C radio.
$20 additional was good for the download, the shirt, the record and a magazine.
A few of them from past years are in the shop for something like $10+shipping. The $20 extra definitely got more than $20 of stuff.
paying less =/= free. Just because you got a "deal" by buying a bundle doesn't make any of it free. Bottom line is I paid for a single as part of a bundle, and I do not have the single. Therefore I paid for something that was never delivered. Now as others have said, I really don't think about it until I see this thread. its not that big of a deal. I just don't understand why anyone can defend this. What if it was the digital download they decided to take away? What if they just decided to not offer any tickets to the fan club? How would that be any different?
I don’t defend it. It’s lousy customer service. I just don’t get the outrage.
Others itemizing what we get and saying the single is just a free bonus, despite that it is part of the built in cost of membership, and that is silly to complain about, is defending it. I don't think anyone here is outraged. Annoyed and disappointed is probably more accurate. If they announce tomorrow that they will not be shipping them out and there will be no refunds or credit I will still keep my membership as long as I have a chance of seeing them play. I will lose a lot of respect for the band and anyone involved in the club if that happens. That's not being outraged.
There are people outraged here. To wit: Someone filed a complaint with the Attorney General’s office over the single. Others have suggested a lawsuit.
and it keeps coming back to this one example like everyone here is on the same level. not even close.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
0
Options
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,489
I'm not really sure why anyone thinks it matters what the built in cost of the single is. it's part of the agreement. the worth is the band's/club's ability to make good on a contract, which is what this is.
The only part of the contract most people care about are the tickets. Hence... if the restaurant cooked me the best steak ever I’m not really going to ask to speak to the manager because I don’t get a refill on my water.
that's simply not true. you are assuming most are from places the band visits. this club has NEVER been about the tickets for me, and I've seen several post the same. I've seen the band 5 times, Ed once. I scored 10 club tickets once, well, scratch that, twice, but the most recent example was cancelled due to covid.
and even if it is true, it's not relevant. if any business sells a package, they do so to market to a diverse group, some who want item A the most, some who want item B the most, some who want both items A and B equally. so they are beholden to deliver the entire package to the entire group.
that's the entire reason they split into two tiers of membership.
what you aren't getting is that, honestly, you are kind of arrogantly assuming what is most important to you is what should be most important to everyone. that tickets are the steak. they aren't, to everybody. there is no right answer as to what is the most important.
I continue to find it kind of funny those accusing others of being "obsessed" with the singles are also the people obsessed with the people obsessed with the singles.
I said “most” people are here for the tickets. And I think that’s common sense. Not arrogance. I realize there are people who might pay up just for the single. But they’re a minority. That’s why said most. I never said everyone.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
I'm not really sure why anyone thinks it matters what the built in cost of the single is. it's part of the agreement. the worth is the band's/club's ability to make good on a contract, which is what this is.
The only part of the contract most people care about are the tickets. Hence... if the restaurant cooked me the best steak ever I’m not really going to ask to speak to the manager because I don’t get a refill on my water.
If that's true, then they were digital. If they chose to pay an extra $20, it's because they did care. Either that or thought Pearl Jam were a bunch of struggling musicians and wanted to make a donation. If I never saw my server after taking my order and it left me thirsty, I'd be leaving a pretty weak tip.
i just want the ANALOG item from my analog membership. The shirts were literally billed as a gift. The download codes are pointless when they don’t easily work on my iphone. I payed $20 for a record and a mag... Am I losing sleep over it... No, Is it right/fair/just that they’ve found time to write record and release ab album, pressed single sided 45s of a single and put up multiple other artists 7” records in the shop all while holding back the shit I paid for 3-4 years ago? Also NO. Come on Santos. Please make this happen for us.
I'm not really sure why anyone thinks it matters what the built in cost of the single is. it's part of the agreement. the worth is the band's/club's ability to make good on a contract, which is what this is.
The only part of the contract most people care about are the tickets. Hence... if the restaurant cooked me the best steak ever I’m not really going to ask to speak to the manager because I don’t get a refill on my water.
that's simply not true. you are assuming most are from places the band visits. this club has NEVER been about the tickets for me, and I've seen several post the same. I've seen the band 5 times, Ed once. I scored 10 club tickets once, well, scratch that, twice, but the most recent example was cancelled due to covid.
and even if it is true, it's not relevant. if any business sells a package, they do so to market to a diverse group, some who want item A the most, some who want item B the most, some who want both items A and B equally. so they are beholden to deliver the entire package to the entire group.
that's the entire reason they split into two tiers of membership.
what you aren't getting is that, honestly, you are kind of arrogantly assuming what is most important to you is what should be most important to everyone. that tickets are the steak. they aren't, to everybody. there is no right answer as to what is the most important.
I continue to find it kind of funny those accusing others of being "obsessed" with the singles are also the people obsessed with the people obsessed with the singles.
I said “most” people are here for the tickets. And I think that’s common sense. Not arrogance. I realize there are people who might pay up just for the single. But they’re a minority. That’s why said most. I never said everyone.
if those who only care about tickets still remain analog are kind of....um....bad with money? but those who only care about tickets are digital. those who remain analog obviously have different priorities. and those people paid for a package that wasn't received, and is now years overdue.
you don't think it's a big deal. fine. others do. I don't get why people have to be antagonistic to people who just want what they paid for. the club isn't your little brother.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
0
Options
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,489
I'm not really sure why anyone thinks it matters what the built in cost of the single is. it's part of the agreement. the worth is the band's/club's ability to make good on a contract, which is what this is.
The only part of the contract most people care about are the tickets. Hence... if the restaurant cooked me the best steak ever I’m not really going to ask to speak to the manager because I don’t get a refill on my water.
If that's true, then they were digital. If they chose to pay an extra $20, it's because they did care. Either that or thought Pearl Jam were a bunch of struggling musicians and wanted to make a donation. If I never saw my server after taking my order and it left me thirsty, I'd be leaving a pretty weak tip.
I didn’t say they don’t care. I know that people who are analog would like the single. I’m one of them. I just don’t get the outrage. Invoking terms like “contract” implies people are outraged.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
no it doesn't. anything you purchase in exchange for goods or services is technically a contract. especially when it's a membership with terms and conditions.
I'm not really sure why anyone thinks it matters what the built in cost of the single is. it's part of the agreement. the worth is the band's/club's ability to make good on a contract, which is what this is.
The only part of the contract most people care about are the tickets. Hence... if the restaurant cooked me the best steak ever I’m not really going to ask to speak to the manager because I don’t get a refill on my water.
If that's true, then they were digital. If they chose to pay an extra $20, it's because they did care. Either that or thought Pearl Jam were a bunch of struggling musicians and wanted to make a donation. If I never saw my server after taking my order and it left me thirsty, I'd be leaving a pretty weak tip.
I didn’t say they don’t care. I know that people who are analog would like the single. I’m one of them. I just don’t get the outrage. Invoking terms like “contract” implies people are outraged.
Actually, you did. From what I quoted you earlier; "The only part of the contract most people care about are the tickets. " You said most only care about the tickets, meaning they do not care about the rest.
0
Options
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,489
no it doesn't. anything you purchase in exchange for goods or services is technically a contract. especially when it's a membership with terms and conditions.
You might be overinvested in the single if you’re using the word contract in a discussion about a rock band.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Just send the flipping records so we can all move on. I don’t get why people don’t care that they paid for something years ago and still haven’t received said goods and think it’s ok? Calling a lawyer , a little much but when a company steals hundreds of thousands of dollars and doesn’t provide said goods well then maybe it’s justified? Not the end of the world and yes we all have more serious things to deal with but I think it’s ok to question where these are. Santos.. your time to chime in here.
Sounds like we're all not that far apart. Most who are complaining aren't outraged, just annoyed and disappointed that we paid for something while the band can turn item after item in the shop and not fulfil what we paid for years ago. That doesn't mean we're outraged. Most think those not complaining are defending the band. Maybe they're not. Sounds like they just don't want to waste time complaining about it. That doesn;t equal defending the band. We all want them. None of us are losing sleep over it. I'm in that first group. I'm annoyed. The band and the club should be embarrassed that they can flip 10 for the 5th time, crank out new 7" of side projects for extra cash, but not press a single that we paid for 4 years ago. I'd be embarrassed if my name was on that. Money talks I guess.
The only problem with the restaurant analogy is that the single is not analogous to the steak. The tickets are the steak. The single is more like they forgot to refill your water.
Half the yearly dues were essentially for the single, water is free. So to go with the restaurant analogy, you order a steak dinner plate that comes with a baked potato, salad and grilled veggies. They only bring out a steak. Sure, the steak is what I was really mostly interested in, but I would have gotten the steak a la mode and paid half as much if I didn't want the sides. The only reason I was analog was this vinyl. Thats half the cost of membership. As soon as they did away with it that was an easy choice to go digital.
But the single is free... just like the water. The shirt is $20 in the shop and the bootleg code is $10.
Bingo.
$20 gets ticket access, member sales and contests, forum access, 10C radio.
$20 additional was good for the download, the shirt, the record and a magazine.
A few of them from past years are in the shop for something like $10+shipping. The $20 extra definitely got more than $20 of stuff.
paying less =/= free. Just because you got a "deal" by buying a bundle doesn't make any of it free. Bottom line is I paid for a single as part of a bundle, and I do not have the single. Therefore I paid for something that was never delivered. Now as others have said, I really don't think about it until I see this thread. its not that big of a deal. I just don't understand why anyone can defend this. What if it was the digital download they decided to take away? What if they just decided to not offer any tickets to the fan club? How would that be any different?
I don’t defend it. It’s lousy customer service. I just don’t get the outrage.
Others itemizing what we get and saying the single is just a free bonus, despite that it is part of the built in cost of membership, and that is silly to complain about, is defending it. I don't think anyone here is outraged. Annoyed and disappointed is probably more accurate. If they announce tomorrow that they will not be shipping them out and there will be no refunds or credit I will still keep my membership as long as I have a chance of seeing them play. I will lose a lot of respect for the band and anyone involved in the club if that happens. That's not being outraged.
There are people outraged here. To wit: Someone filed a complaint with the Attorney General’s office over the single. Others have suggested a lawsuit.
Okay, that's dumb. Very few are outraged, most just disappointed and annoyed.
I filed a complaint after the Attorney General himself told me to file a complaint over these kind of consumer issues. I've been mocked plenty over it but those that are mocking don't realize what the Attorney General's Office is for. The Attorney General got involved and we ended up getting a real response from the very top of the club. It wasn't a waste of time and it worked as much as the process could. Let me remind everyone that it was a year and a half ago that I contacted the AG and the Ten Club has still failed to fulfill their obligation.
As for a lawsuit, plenty of others have been sued for much less and won much more. To my knowledge no one has actually filed a lawsuit or even spoken with a lawyer regarding a lawsuit. Unfortunately, we as consumers are at the bottom of the totem pole and sometimes lawsuits are necessary because it is the only option. In this instance, we can't make anything happen sooner individually but I bet if someone started a lawsuit, these would be shipped out tomorrow.
There is no point in arguing what the cost of any specific membership benefit item is. If the Ten Club doesn't charge enough to fulfill their obligations, that is 100% on them. Their lack of communication is the biggest issue IMHO. I don't care whether these items ship out in 10 years as long as there is direct and constant communication about the situation. Instead, the Ten Club ignores this situation while pushing more consumer crap for us to buy.
It is outrageous that a band would treat their fan club members with such disrespect so I think any outrage is fair. The Ten Club was one of the reasons that made me love this band in the first place but I don't feel the same way towards the Ten Club as I used to. I know the Ten Club doesn't feel the same way that it used to about the fan club members. This is a legitimate issue with what seems to be a very simple solution but the Ten Club just does not care.
Has any member of Pearl Jam gotten involved with fixing this situation? To my knowledge, none of them have even addressed this situation but that's probably because their lawyers told them to stay silent. Do any members of Pearl Jam care about this situation? It sure doesn't seem so. Each member of Pearl Jam has more money and power than most will ever have yet we are still talking about membership benefits from 4 years ago.
no it doesn't. anything you purchase in exchange for goods or services is technically a contract. especially when it's a membership with terms and conditions.
You might be overinvested in the single if you’re using the word contract in a discussion about a rock band.
no, i'm really not. as I said earlier, I only think about it when I see this thread pop up. I've used the word "contract" with my kids for their chores, so, no, I'm not overinvested in anything.
The only problem with the restaurant analogy is that the single is not analogous to the steak. The tickets are the steak. The single is more like they forgot to refill your water.
Half the yearly dues were essentially for the single, water is free. So to go with the restaurant analogy, you order a steak dinner plate that comes with a baked potato, salad and grilled veggies. They only bring out a steak. Sure, the steak is what I was really mostly interested in, but I would have gotten the steak a la mode and paid half as much if I didn't want the sides. The only reason I was analog was this vinyl. Thats half the cost of membership. As soon as they did away with it that was an easy choice to go digital.
But the single is free... just like the water. The shirt is $20 in the shop and the bootleg code is $10.
Bingo.
$20 gets ticket access, member sales and contests, forum access, 10C radio.
$20 additional was good for the download, the shirt, the record and a magazine.
A few of them from past years are in the shop for something like $10+shipping. The $20 extra definitely got more than $20 of stuff.
paying less =/= free. Just because you got a "deal" by buying a bundle doesn't make any of it free. Bottom line is I paid for a single as part of a bundle, and I do not have the single. Therefore I paid for something that was never delivered. Now as others have said, I really don't think about it until I see this thread. its not that big of a deal. I just don't understand why anyone can defend this. What if it was the digital download they decided to take away? What if they just decided to not offer any tickets to the fan club? How would that be any different?
I don’t defend it. It’s lousy customer service. I just don’t get the outrage.
Others itemizing what we get and saying the single is just a free bonus, despite that it is part of the built in cost of membership, and that is silly to complain about, is defending it. I don't think anyone here is outraged. Annoyed and disappointed is probably more accurate. If they announce tomorrow that they will not be shipping them out and there will be no refunds or credit I will still keep my membership as long as I have a chance of seeing them play. I will lose a lot of respect for the band and anyone involved in the club if that happens. That's not being outraged.
There are people outraged here. To wit: Someone filed a complaint with the Attorney General’s office over the single. Others have suggested a lawsuit.
Okay, that's dumb. Very few are outraged, most just disappointed and annoyed.
I filed a complaint after the Attorney General himself told me to file a complaint over these kind of consumer issues. I've been mocked plenty over it but those that are mocking don't realize what the Attorney General's Office is for. The Attorney General got involved and we ended up getting a real response from the very top of the club. It wasn't a waste of time and it worked as much as the process could. Let me remind everyone that it was a year and a half ago that I contacted the AG and the Ten Club has still failed to fulfill their obligation.
As for a lawsuit, plenty of others have been sued for much less and won much more. To my knowledge no one has actually filed a lawsuit or even spoken with a lawyer regarding a lawsuit. Unfortunately, we as consumers are at the bottom of the totem pole and sometimes lawsuits are necessary because it is the only option. In this instance, we can't make anything happen sooner individually but I bet if someone started a lawsuit, these would be shipped out tomorrow.
There is no point in arguing what the cost of any specific membership benefit item is. If the Ten Club doesn't charge enough to fulfill their obligations, that is 100% on them. Their lack of communication is the biggest issue IMHO. I don't care whether these items ship out in 10 years as long as there is direct and constant communication about the situation. Instead, the Ten Club ignores this situation while pushing more consumer crap for us to buy.
It is outrageous that a band would treat their fan club members with such disrespect so I think any outrage is fair. The Ten Club was one of the reasons that made me love this band in the first place but I don't feel the same way towards the Ten Club as I used to. I know the Ten Club doesn't feel the same way that it used to about the fan club members. This is a legitimate issue with what seems to be a very simple solution but the Ten Club just does not care.
Has any member of Pearl Jam gotten involved with fixing this situation? To my knowledge, none of them have even addressed this situation but that's probably because their lawyers told them to stay silent. Do any members of Pearl Jam care about this situation? It sure doesn't seem so. Each member of Pearl Jam has more money and power than most will ever have yet we are still talking about membership benefits from 4 years ago.
Ha! Guess we have different ideas on what a waste of time is.
In all fairness, the multiple threads on this issue have been equally successful. Involving the government over $20 does seem excessive to me. If it was $300 worth of canceled concert tickets with no refunds, I'd see the point.
0
Options
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,489
Sounds like we're all not that far apart. Most who are complaining aren't outraged, just annoyed and disappointed that we paid for something while the band can turn item after item in the shop and not fulfil what we paid for years ago. That doesn't mean we're outraged. Most think those not complaining are defending the band. Maybe they're not. Sounds like they just don't want to waste time complaining about it. That doesn;t equal defending the band. We all want them. None of us are losing sleep over it. I'm in that first group. I'm annoyed. The band and the club should be embarrassed that they can flip 10 for the 5th time, crank out new 7" of side projects for extra cash, but not press a single that we paid for 4 years ago. I'd be embarrassed if my name was on that. Money talks I guess.
Agreed.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
0
Options
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,489
The only problem with the restaurant analogy is that the single is not analogous to the steak. The tickets are the steak. The single is more like they forgot to refill your water.
Half the yearly dues were essentially for the single, water is free. So to go with the restaurant analogy, you order a steak dinner plate that comes with a baked potato, salad and grilled veggies. They only bring out a steak. Sure, the steak is what I was really mostly interested in, but I would have gotten the steak a la mode and paid half as much if I didn't want the sides. The only reason I was analog was this vinyl. Thats half the cost of membership. As soon as they did away with it that was an easy choice to go digital.
But the single is free... just like the water. The shirt is $20 in the shop and the bootleg code is $10.
Bingo.
$20 gets ticket access, member sales and contests, forum access, 10C radio.
$20 additional was good for the download, the shirt, the record and a magazine.
A few of them from past years are in the shop for something like $10+shipping. The $20 extra definitely got more than $20 of stuff.
paying less =/= free. Just because you got a "deal" by buying a bundle doesn't make any of it free. Bottom line is I paid for a single as part of a bundle, and I do not have the single. Therefore I paid for something that was never delivered. Now as others have said, I really don't think about it until I see this thread. its not that big of a deal. I just don't understand why anyone can defend this. What if it was the digital download they decided to take away? What if they just decided to not offer any tickets to the fan club? How would that be any different?
I don’t defend it. It’s lousy customer service. I just don’t get the outrage.
Others itemizing what we get and saying the single is just a free bonus, despite that it is part of the built in cost of membership, and that is silly to complain about, is defending it. I don't think anyone here is outraged. Annoyed and disappointed is probably more accurate. If they announce tomorrow that they will not be shipping them out and there will be no refunds or credit I will still keep my membership as long as I have a chance of seeing them play. I will lose a lot of respect for the band and anyone involved in the club if that happens. That's not being outraged.
There are people outraged here. To wit: Someone filed a complaint with the Attorney General’s office over the single. Others have suggested a lawsuit.
Okay, that's dumb. Very few are outraged, most just disappointed and annoyed.
I filed a complaint after the Attorney General himself told me to file a complaint over these kind of consumer issues. I've been mocked plenty over it but those that are mocking don't realize what the Attorney General's Office is for. The Attorney General got involved and we ended up getting a real response from the very top of the club. It wasn't a waste of time and it worked as much as the process could. Let me remind everyone that it was a year and a half ago that I contacted the AG and the Ten Club has still failed to fulfill their obligation.
As for a lawsuit, plenty of others have been sued for much less and won much more. To my knowledge no one has actually filed a lawsuit or even spoken with a lawyer regarding a lawsuit. Unfortunately, we as consumers are at the bottom of the totem pole and sometimes lawsuits are necessary because it is the only option. In this instance, we can't make anything happen sooner individually but I bet if someone started a lawsuit, these would be shipped out tomorrow.
There is no point in arguing what the cost of any specific membership benefit item is. If the Ten Club doesn't charge enough to fulfill their obligations, that is 100% on them. Their lack of communication is the biggest issue IMHO. I don't care whether these items ship out in 10 years as long as there is direct and constant communication about the situation. Instead, the Ten Club ignores this situation while pushing more consumer crap for us to buy.
It is outrageous that a band would treat their fan club members with such disrespect so I think any outrage is fair. The Ten Club was one of the reasons that made me love this band in the first place but I don't feel the same way towards the Ten Club as I used to. I know the Ten Club doesn't feel the same way that it used to about the fan club members. This is a legitimate issue with what seems to be a very simple solution but the Ten Club just does not care.
Has any member of Pearl Jam gotten involved with fixing this situation? To my knowledge, none of them have even addressed this situation but that's probably because their lawyers told them to stay silent. Do any members of Pearl Jam care about this situation? It sure doesn't seem so. Each member of Pearl Jam has more money and power than most will ever have yet we are still talking about membership benefits from 4 years ago.
🤦🏻♂️
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
The agreement to exchange money for goods represented by a Ten Club membership is, without question, a contract. The Ten Club is in breach of that contract with respect to its Analog members from 2017-18. The Ten Club can cure that breach at any time by delivering the promised goods but, until such cure, it remains in breach.
Some people are dismissive of the idea that anyone cares about "their 20 dollars," but a theoretical lawsuit alleging breach of contract (and, perhaps, fraud-- if facts were developed that demonstrated that the Ten Club had or has no intention of performing its obligations under the contract) would not be brought by any individual member. That would be a small claim. The theoretical lawsuit would be a class action brought on behalf of all individuals with a claim. The class may consist of tens of thousands of members. The amount of profit that has accrued to the Ten Club from any individual member is negligible, but the amount of profit that has accrued to the Ten Club from all members with whom it is in breach would be significant if the class is large enough.
That lawsuit remains theoretical because: 1) the putative plaintiffs are members of a fan club who retain good will toward the potential target of the lawsuit, despite the breach; and 2) a lawyer would be unlikely to take up representation of the class because he or she would only be paid upon victory or settlement and, if said lawsuit were filed, the Ten Club would likely cure the breach as quickly as it could, rendering the lawsuit moot and likely proscribing any discovery unless there were some specific basis for allegations of fraud that would allow for non-contract damages. I'm not aware of any basis for a claim that the Ten Club is intentionally withholding the benefits of this particular bargain. It seems more likely that it's just negligence and inertia. We certainly haven't been given any indication that the members of the band, who have the power to put this whole saga to rest, care about it or are even especially aware of it. For all we know, the band may think they've fulfilled their obligation. Imagine the extent to which the hard feelings that exist could have been tempered if any member of the band had posted something here, or written something in one of the monthly emails selling stuff, saying, "Hey everybody, we understand your frustration that you haven't received what we promised you. (Maybe insert a brief explanation for the delay here.) But rest assured, we're going to get this taken care of and get you something that will be worth the wait. We're sorry this happened. We truly appreciate your support and we don't take it for granted."
In all fairness, the multiple threads on this issue have been equally successful. Involving the government over $20 does seem excessive to me. If it was $300 worth of canceled concert tickets with no refunds, I'd see the point.
But it's not really about 20 dollars (or 40 dollars, since there are two years at issue here). It's about 40 dollars for every one of the thousands of people who haven't gotten what they paid for. The class-action lawsuit that resulted in Ticketmaster having to pay $400 million in settlement wasn't brought to vindicate the rights of the named plaintiff; it was to protect the rights of everyone Ticketmaster screwed and attempt to hold Ticketmaster accountable.
Members of Pearl Jam once went all the way to Congress to try to hold Ticketmaster accountable for treating its customers poorly, but some fans of Pearl Jam can't believe that someone would take the time to file an online complaint with the WA AG to try to hold Pearl Jam accountable when the band treats its customers poorly. If there were ever a lawsuit over this, I could imagine the class representative responding to cross-examination by Pearl Jam's lawyers by quoting the kid in the old anti-drug PSA, "I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU!!!"
I gather speed from you fucking with me.
0
Options
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,489
These posts are amazing.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
People being steadfast in having the back of an organisation and putting other fans down, regarding the issue of the organisation raking in X members times Y dollars and without being able to muster up even decent communications about their colossal embarrassing failure.
Lol.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Hey Santos , I saw you posted in another thread about the bats for sale today, can you jump into this thread and provide an update. We would all appreciate it. Thank you!!
I just think it really sucks that the band will no longer produce the annual 45.
Do I think the ones missing are long overdue Sure. But I had long forgotten about which single was due when, or what year it was for and just appreciated the random surprise in my mailbox every now and then.
I just hope their decision to stop after 20+ years has nothing to do with the nagging and the complaints received; which could’ve easily taken the fun out of the exercise. That would be unfortunate.
They kept vinyl alive when it was almost dead, when there was nothing cool about it. That is commendable. For many years they were the only new artist sitting next to my dad’s old lp collection; long before everyone started jumping back in the game 15 years ago. The first vinyl I bought was Vitalogy when it came out. I had asked for a CD player for my bedroom for my bday, while at the same time buying an vinyl that I had to copy on a tape in order to listen on my own. It was that or sit next to my folks with headphones on!
Their love for vinyl kept my record collection growing, made me upgrade my audio gear. And now, when most consumers have gone digital and when record sales keep going down, here I am buying records almost every week. Feeding my addiction and doing my small part in supporting artists; who in turn will keep touring and releasing records, keeping me hooked!🤦♂️
At least I was into vinyl enough to snatch a Benny box set when it came out ($40 or $45 I believe).
So, yeah, I wish I already had those last singles spinning in my living room or in my jukebox. But at the same time, I think I prefer the feeling of expecting them vs knowing they won’t be coming anymore. In a weird way, the worst is yet to come 😔
Definitely frustrating. Hope we can get an update soon. These 45s have some really great songs on them & I look forward to getting the adapter out and spinning em’!
I just think it really sucks that the band will no longer produce the annual 45.
Do I think the ones missing are long overdue Sure. But I had long forgotten about which single was due when, or what year it was for and just appreciated the random surprise in my mailbox every now and then.
I just hope their decision to stop after 20+ years has nothing to do with the nagging and the complaints received; which could’ve easily taken the fun out of the exercise. That would be unfortunate.
They kept vinyl alive when it was almost dead, when there was nothing cool about it. That is commendable. For many years they were the only new artist sitting next to my dad’s old lp collection; long before everyone started jumping back in the game 15 years ago. The first vinyl I bought was Vitalogy when it came out. I had asked for a CD player for my bedroom for my bday, while at the same time buying an vinyl that I had to copy on a tape in order to listen on my own. It was that or sit next to my folks with headphones on!
Their love for vinyl kept my record collection growing, made me upgrade my audio gear. And now, when most consumers have gone digital and when record sales keep going down, here I am buying records almost every week. Feeding my addiction and doing my small part in supporting artists; who in turn will keep touring and releasing records, keeping me hooked!🤦♂️
At least I was into vinyl enough to snatch a Benny box set when it came out ($40 or $45 I believe).
So, yeah, I wish I already had those last singles spinning in my living room or in my jukebox. But at the same time, I think I prefer the feeling of expecting them vs knowing they won’t be coming anymore. In a weird way, the worst is yet to come 😔
my personal opinion why they stopped them? a) the band hate being bothered by it, and b) they realized in the digital age they were leaving money on the table. sending out these 45's and mp3's just for people to share them far and wide, they probably realized they could be making real money, for profit or charity, or both, from those songs.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
0
Options
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,489
I don't really think any complaining led to the discontinuation. I mostly think it is just a sign of the band getting older, being together less often, creating less new music and generally being focused on other things in life. I'm disappointed they discontinued the singles, but better they pulled the plug than continue with the huge delays if they weren't motivated to do it anymore.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
I don't really think any complaining led to the discontinuation. I mostly think it is just a sign of the band getting older, being together less often, creating less new music and generally being focused on other things in life. I'm disappointed they discontinued the singles, but better they pulled the plug than continue with the huge delays if they weren't motivated to do it anymore.
They mostly just put live songs, weird solo experiments, or occasionally unreleased material on them. It was quite rare for them to record specifically for the singles. If they wanted to keep doing them they have 30 years of stuff already in the vault they could have used, requiring near-zero effort.
I don't really think any complaining led to the discontinuation. I mostly think it is just a sign of the band getting older, being together less often, creating less new music and generally being focused on other things in life. I'm disappointed they discontinued the singles, but better they pulled the plug than continue with the huge delays if they weren't motivated to do it anymore.
They mostly just put live songs, weird solo experiments, or occasionally unreleased material on them. It was quite rare for them to record specifically for the singles. If they wanted to keep doing them they have 30 years of stuff already in the vault they could have used, requiring near-zero effort.
I agree that effort from the band is really not needed for these. So many years of things in the vault. Pick something, press item have it out on time. Imo, a pretty easy thing to do. Not really sure why the Band/Club stopped doing these. Was a great little thing for the fans.
Comments
I fully understand people being outraged over Tenclubs unfathomable poor handling of this and communications skills. Its crazy. Ludacris. On the verge of being - if not stepping over that line already - arrogant.
www.headstonesband.com
If I never saw my server after taking my order and it left me thirsty, I'd be leaving a pretty weak tip.
Come on Santos. Please make this happen for us.
you don't think it's a big deal. fine. others do. I don't get why people have to be antagonistic to people who just want what they paid for. the club isn't your little brother.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
You said most only care about the tickets, meaning they do not care about the rest.
Most think those not complaining are defending the band. Maybe they're not. Sounds like they just don't want to waste time complaining about it. That doesn;t equal defending the band.
We all want them. None of us are losing sleep over it.
I'm in that first group. I'm annoyed. The band and the club should be embarrassed that they can flip 10 for the 5th time, crank out new 7" of side projects for extra cash, but not press a single that we paid for 4 years ago. I'd be embarrassed if my name was on that. Money talks I guess.
www.headstonesband.com
https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/285124/the-2020-spring-tour-leg-one-postponement-positivity-thread#latest
www.headstonesband.com
Some people are dismissive of the idea that anyone cares about "their 20 dollars," but a theoretical lawsuit alleging breach of contract (and, perhaps, fraud-- if facts were developed that demonstrated that the Ten Club had or has no intention of performing its obligations under the contract) would not be brought by any individual member. That would be a small claim. The theoretical lawsuit would be a class action brought on behalf of all individuals with a claim. The class may consist of tens of thousands of members. The amount of profit that has accrued to the Ten Club from any individual member is negligible, but the amount of profit that has accrued to the Ten Club from all members with whom it is in breach would be significant if the class is large enough.
That lawsuit remains theoretical because: 1) the putative plaintiffs are members of a fan club who retain good will toward the potential target of the lawsuit, despite the breach; and 2) a lawyer would be unlikely to take up representation of the class because he or she would only be paid upon victory or settlement and, if said lawsuit were filed, the Ten Club would likely cure the breach as quickly as it could, rendering the lawsuit moot and likely proscribing any discovery unless there were some specific basis for allegations of fraud that would allow for non-contract damages. I'm not aware of any basis for a claim that the Ten Club is intentionally withholding the benefits of this particular bargain. It seems more likely that it's just negligence and inertia. We certainly haven't been given any indication that the members of the band, who have the power to put this whole saga to rest, care about it or are even especially aware of it. For all we know, the band may think they've fulfilled their obligation. Imagine the extent to which the hard feelings that exist could have been tempered if any member of the band had posted something here, or written something in one of the monthly emails selling stuff, saying, "Hey everybody, we understand your frustration that you haven't received what we promised you. (Maybe insert a brief explanation for the delay here.) But rest assured, we're going to get this taken care of and get you something that will be worth the wait. We're sorry this happened. We truly appreciate your support and we don't take it for granted."
Members of Pearl Jam once went all the way to Congress to try to hold Ticketmaster accountable for treating its customers poorly, but some fans of Pearl Jam can't believe that someone would take the time to file an online complaint with the WA AG to try to hold Pearl Jam accountable when the band treats its customers poorly. If there were ever a lawsuit over this, I could imagine the class representative responding to cross-examination by Pearl Jam's lawyers by quoting the kid in the old anti-drug PSA, "I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU!!!"
Lol.
So, yeah, I wish I already had those last singles spinning in my living room or in my jukebox. But at the same time, I think I prefer the feeling of expecting them vs knowing they won’t be coming anymore. In a weird way, the worst is yet to come 😔
www.headstonesband.com