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The Last “Dance” ESPN Documentary

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  • cutzcutz Posts: 11,990
    cp3iverson said:
    -i remember how crazy the Pip/Kukoc thing was.  Weird feeling because that buzzer beater was so great. Doesnt tarnish his rep to me. He was a moody player to begin with.  

    -Payton DID do a great job on Jordan.  Held him to like 21ppg and poor shooting in the three games he guarded him. Everyone forget that
    So, "IF" Kukoc doesn't hit that shot does Pippen play the OT? Does Jackson play him even if he wants to?
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,941
    edited May 2020
    cutz said:
    cp3iverson said:
    -i remember how crazy the Pip/Kukoc thing was.  Weird feeling because that buzzer beater was so great. Doesnt tarnish his rep to me. He was a moody player to begin with.  

    -Payton DID do a great job on Jordan.  Held him to like 21ppg and poor shooting in the three games he guarded him. Everyone forget that
    So, "IF" Kukoc doesn't hit that shot does Pippen play the OT? Does Jackson play him even if he wants to?
    That’s the all-time question. I don’t know. I could see it go either way with Jackson; keep him benched even if he wants to play on the basis that he quit on his team (kind of the old-school mentality), or let him play and process the whole situation later with some sort of zen exercise (Jackson’s specialty in those years). It’s tough to say. 

    I also liked that they showed a brief clip of Pip throwing a chair on the court after being ejected against the Spurs in 95 (pre-MJ comeback). I was watching that live, likely wearing my Pippen jersey. I was disgusted. “The pressure is getting to him” I thought. I remember my MOM roasting Pip on that one. “Old Doorface (her nickname for Pip, felt his nose looked like he walked into a door) is a loser! What if that chair hit somebody!? They should bring back Michael Jordan!”

    https://youtu.be/y5ylVQZvxhk

    These two lowlights aside, Pip’s my all-time favorite player and I’m with him in the best of times (‘94 All-Star game), the worst of times (Blazers/Lakers game 7 2000), and everything in between. Pippen ain’t easy. 
    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO Native Posts: 2,761
    Here are a couple of things to compare, albeit one not as many games as the other.  Who was more important to the Bulls?  I will not argue that is anything but hands-down MJ, but if you consider when each player was on their own and had someone playing the 4 that was not Toni Kukoc, here were the team's records.  It's not as far apart as you would think.  They really did need one another.

    Scottie w/out Michael (with HoGrant): 55-27 (0.671)
    Michael w/out Scottie (with Rodman): 24-11 (0.686)
    I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.
  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO Native Posts: 2,761
    cdthomas1981 said:
    Here are a couple of things to compare, albeit one not as many games as the other.  Who was more important to the Bulls?  I will not argue that is anything but hands-down MJ, but if you consider when each player was on their own and had someone playing the 4 that was not Toni Kukoc, here were the team's records.  It's not as far apart as you would think.  They really did need one another.

    Scottie w/out Michael (with HoGrant): 55-27 (0.671)
    Michael w/out Scottie (with Rodman): 24-11 (0.686)
    One more thing to add onto this.  The Bulls first 35 games without MJ in 1993-1994, they were 24-11.

    I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PA Posts: 42,459
    Damn tonight's the last parts of the series. Definitely looking forward to it. Will Pearl Jam make an appearance?
    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
    10/31/09- Philly
    5/21/10- NYC
    9/2/12- Philly, PA
    7/19/13- Wrigley
    10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
    10/21/13- Philly, PA
    10/22/13- Philly, PA
    10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
    4/28/16- Philly, PA
    4/29/16- Philly, PA
    5/1/16- NYC
    5/2/16- NYC
    9/2/18- Boston, MA
    9/4/18- Boston, MA
    9/14/22- Camden, NJ
    9/7/24- Philly, PA
    9/9/24- Philly, PA
    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
    RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
  • cp3iversoncp3iverson Posts: 8,702
    edited May 2020
    I knew back then that one day it would be difficult to describe just HOW good Jordan was.  I dont even think watching old games does him justice.  I saw him play as a visitor against some awful teams and it always felt like you weren't really there.   What an experience. Never got to see him in Chicago.  That must’ve been nuts.  

    A lot of younger fans don’t believe he’d be as good today but in the words of Charles Barkley “a lot of these fans are just idiots, Ernie.  They don’t know the game”
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,941
    cp3iverson said:

    A lot of younger fans don’t believe he’d be as good today 
    Which is so funny because he has the highest points per game average all-time...and he played in the era with hand-checking, physical-as-fuck defense, and low-scoring games. I suppose you can try and argue that now that zone defense is allowed, that maybe that can slow him down, but I doubt it. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO Native Posts: 2,761
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    cp3iverson said:

    A lot of younger fans don’t believe he’d be as good today 
    Which is so funny because he has the highest points per game average all-time...and he played in the era with hand-checking, physical-as-fuck defense, and low-scoring games. I suppose you can try and argue that now that zone defense is allowed, that maybe that can slow him down, but I doubt it. 
    Not if you’re running the triangle offense, a zone couldn’t stunt him.  Especially on the 90-93 teams.  They ran so fluidly on offense.
    I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 28,177

    I miss igotid88
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,094
    MJ would have learned how to increase his 3 point percentage 3-4% and dominate in today’s game.  He had to bulk up for the Pistons but still was as quick as anyone.  I have no doubt he could dominate just like Lebron did.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,576
    bootlegger10 said:
    MJ would have learned how to increase his 3 point percentage 3-4% and dominate in today’s game.  He had to bulk up for the Pistons but still was as quick as anyone.  I have no doubt he could dominate just like Lebron did.
    Agreed.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,576
    I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,576
    Present Tense!!!!
  • crookedcrosscrookedcross Right Near Da Beach, Boiii Posts: 1,514
    Nice touch!
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PA Posts: 42,459
    edited May 2020
    Present tense? Nice surprise. Wasn’t  expecting that one 
    Post edited by eeriepadave on
    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
    10/31/09- Philly
    5/21/10- NYC
    9/2/12- Philly, PA
    7/19/13- Wrigley
    10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
    10/21/13- Philly, PA
    10/22/13- Philly, PA
    10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
    4/28/16- Philly, PA
    4/29/16- Philly, PA
    5/1/16- NYC
    5/2/16- NYC
    9/2/18- Boston, MA
    9/4/18- Boston, MA
    9/14/22- Camden, NJ
    9/7/24- Philly, PA
    9/9/24- Philly, PA
    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
    RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
  • crookedcrosscrookedcross Right Near Da Beach, Boiii Posts: 1,514
    Damn idk if I just didnt expect it, but there couldn't have been a more perfect song 
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,941
    That was perfect. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PA Posts: 42,459
    I wonder if MJ didn’t retire for those two years would the bulls have won eight in a row?


    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
    10/31/09- Philly
    5/21/10- NYC
    9/2/12- Philly, PA
    7/19/13- Wrigley
    10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
    10/21/13- Philly, PA
    10/22/13- Philly, PA
    10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
    4/28/16- Philly, PA
    4/29/16- Philly, PA
    5/1/16- NYC
    5/2/16- NYC
    9/2/18- Boston, MA
    9/4/18- Boston, MA
    9/14/22- Camden, NJ
    9/7/24- Philly, PA
    9/9/24- Philly, PA
    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
    RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
  • SVRDhand13SVRDhand13 Posts: 26,564
    eeriepadave said:
    I wonder if MJ didn’t retire for those two years would the bulls have won eight in a row?


    I don’t think so but I guess it depends on Phil Jackson 
    severed hand thirteen
    2006: Gorge 7/23 2008: Hartford 6/27 Beacon 7/1 2009: Spectrum 10/30-31
    2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
    2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
    2015: NYC 9/23 2016: Tampa 4/11 Philly 4/28-29 MSG 5/1-2 Fenway 8/5+8/7
    2017: RRHoF 4/7   2018: Fenway 9/2+9/4   2021: Sea Hear Now 9/18 
    2022: MSG 9/11  2024: MSG 9/3-4 Philly 9/7+9/9 Fenway 9/15+9/17
    2025: Pittsburgh 5/16+5/18
  • xavier mcdanielxavier mcdaniel Somewhere in NYC Posts: 9,339
    eeriepadave said:
    Present tense? Nice surprise. Wasn’t  expecting that one 
    I was surprised they never played Black, Red and Yellow for any of the Rodman segments.
    Reading 2004
    Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
    Chicago 2007
    Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
    Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
    Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
    Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
    Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
    Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
    Fenway 2, 2018
    MSG 2022
    St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
    MSG 2024, MSG 2024
    Philadelphia 2024
    "I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
    Things happen in the game. Nothing you
    can do. I don't go and say,
    "I'm gonna beat this guy up."
  • eeriepadaveeeriepadave West Chester, PA Posts: 42,459
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.
    Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.
    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
    10/31/09- Philly
    5/21/10- NYC
    9/2/12- Philly, PA
    7/19/13- Wrigley
    10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
    10/21/13- Philly, PA
    10/22/13- Philly, PA
    10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
    4/28/16- Philly, PA
    4/29/16- Philly, PA
    5/1/16- NYC
    5/2/16- NYC
    9/2/18- Boston, MA
    9/4/18- Boston, MA
    9/14/22- Camden, NJ
    9/7/24- Philly, PA
    9/9/24- Philly, PA
    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
    RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Posts: 49,514
    Chills. What a fucking ending. Holy shit
    www.myspace.com
  • markymark550markymark550 Columbia, SC Posts: 5,179
    SVRDhand13 said:
    eeriepadave said:
    I wonder if MJ didn’t retire for those two years would the bulls have won eight in a row?


    I don’t think so but I guess it depends on Phil Jackson 
    I don't think so either. 3-peats are difficult enough. I just don't see 8 in a row because they would stumble somewhere. I think that 94 Rockets team might have won even if they played Jordan and the Bulls.
  • markymark550markymark550 Columbia, SC Posts: 5,179
    eeriepadave said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.
    Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.
    Malone was my favorite player growing up, so I felt bad for him too. I wasn't particularly a Jazz fan, but was definitely pulling for them in the Finals. Most of my friends find that to be blasphemous lol.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,684
    I have to say when this series started I was kind of lukewarm on it.  I didn't watch the first few episodes in real time but caught them in bits and pieces as they were re-shown.  But is sucked me in and was riveted with the last episodes.  I'm pretty cynical by nature so something to live up to the hype has to be pretty darn good and in the end this was really freakin good.  I'm really glad I watched it and got to relieve all those 90s moments. Well done.  Of course then to end with Present Tense, one of my favorite songs was awesome.  as Juggler said above 'chills'. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,576
    eeriepadave said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.
    Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.
    Not enjoying Miller was not enjoying Basketball...
  • MedozKMedozK Tennessee Posts: 9,212
    tempo_n_groove said:
    eeriepadave said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.
    Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.
    Not enjoying Miller was not enjoying Basketball...
    Hated Reggie Miller.
  • crookedcrosscrookedcross Right Near Da Beach, Boiii Posts: 1,514
    MedozK said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    eeriepadave said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.
    Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.
    Not enjoying Miller was not enjoying Basketball...
    Hated Reggie Miller.
    I hate Reggie Miller, because that mofo has looked the same 30+ years now
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,576
    crookedcross said:
    MedozK said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    eeriepadave said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.
    Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.
    Not enjoying Miller was not enjoying Basketball...
    Hated Reggie Miller.
    I hate Reggie Miller, because that mofo has looked the same 30+ years now
    He's like Pharell.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 40,576
    markymark550 said:
    SVRDhand13 said:
    eeriepadave said:
    I wonder if MJ didn’t retire for those two years would the bulls have won eight in a row?


    I don’t think so but I guess it depends on Phil Jackson 
    I don't think so either. 3-peats are difficult enough. I just don't see 8 in a row because they would stumble somewhere. I think that 94 Rockets team might have won even if they played Jordan and the Bulls.
    The only reason the Rockets won is because Jordan wasn't around.

    The Knicks had that series but messed up.
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