I'm not surprised this discussion morphed into a Moving Train discussion. At my show, I hope music is maximized, political discussions are minimized, and that all people respect each-other's right to have their own opinions. Would hate for my show to become a Uniondale 2003 scenario. I saw posts in this discussion about very long 5+ minute political rants. I've never experienced that myself. I'd rather have a 5+ minute song in place of a rant. Get this off of my plate, mine is mine and yours wont take it's place - some wise man once said.
Up here so high I start to shake, Up here so high the sky I scrape, I've no fear but for falling down, So look out below I am falling now, Falling down,...not staying down, Could’ve held me up, rather tear me down, Drown in the river
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
Please copy and paste the post where I said any of the above you posted. There will be crickets because I didn’t. This is the problem today. If someone doesn’t agree with them, the other person assumes the worst and posts some garbage like above which is a blatant lie. Try to be better than that. If you can’t you are part of the problem I posted on the first or second page of this thread.
Those are great Dem talking points. Spend more money on things and the problems magically disappear. It has worked splendidly for homelessness for instance. Tell me how the government spending more trillions on your passion projects will automatically improve the items you mentioned. Because it is all hypothesis what you would state. There is zero basis saying spending that Government money would make our healthcare and education better.
I can’t imagine going through life making decisions on who I am friends with or surround myself with based on their political thoughts or beliefs. That would be a horrible boring and sad life.
You should try to understand that this is a privileged position to hold. Are you insulated from the political decisions that hurt people?
Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be fired/harassed/discriminated agoainst for their sexuality or gender circumstances due to conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be stripped from the life and family they've built in America because of conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is suffering under medical issues that any other country in the first world would cover? Do you not know anyone who works full-time for a massively profitable company that still can't make ends meet, due to conservative political actions? "Politics" have real-world consequences for people, if you can't see that, then you should work to make your social circle less homogeneous.
Like ecdanc mentioned earlier, how are you going to sit down to dinner with someone as a dear friend, and then turn around the next day and sit down to dinner with someone who campaigns to keep the former from having the same rights you have?
Lol dude calm down. I can see the veins on your neck about to pop just by reading this post. If you want to preach just head down to the corner and bring a box to stand on, the rest of us are just enjoying your frantic arm waving.
I can’t imagine going through life making decisions on who I am friends with or surround myself with based on their political thoughts or beliefs. That would be a horrible boring and sad life.
You should try to understand that this is a privileged position to hold. Are you insulated from the political decisions that hurt people?
Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be fired/harassed/discriminated agoainst for their sexuality or gender circumstances due to conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be stripped from the life and family they've built in America because of conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is suffering under medical issues that any other country in the first world would cover? Do you not know anyone who works full-time for a massively profitable company that still can't make ends meet, due to conservative political actions? "Politics" have real-world consequences for people, if you can't see that, then you should work to make your social circle less homogeneous.
Like ecdanc mentioned earlier, how are you going to sit down to dinner with someone as a dear friend, and then turn around the next day and sit down to dinner with someone who campaigns to keep the former from having the same rights you have?
Lol dude calm down. I can see the veins on your neck about to pop just by reading this post. If you want to preach just head down to the corner and bring a box to stand on, the rest of us are just enjoying your frantic arm waving.
That assessment speaks more to your frame of mind than it does mine.
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
Please copy and paste the post where I said any of the above you posted. There will be crickets because I didn’t. This is the problem today. If someone doesn’t agree with them, the other person assumes the worst and posts some garbage like above which is a blatant lie. Try to be better than that. If you can’t you are part of the problem I posted on the first or second page of this thread.
Those are great Dem talking points. Spend more money on things and the problems magically disappear. It has worked splendidly for homelessness for instance. Tell me how the government spending more trillions on your passion projects will automatically improve the items you mentioned. Because it is all hypothesis what you would state. There is zero basis saying spending that Government money would make our healthcare and education better.
Dem talking points? They are basic human needs..!!!
Education and Healthcare are "passion" problems? wow...
"Zero basis saying that Govt spending helps"?
You do know there was a time in this country when the same was said about the public school (K-12)? Conservatives opposed it... "Why should we pay for poor kids to go to school?"
How about Social Security, Medicare, the Minimum wage and child labor laws, the 8-hour work day, weekends, and sick leave, the Clean Air and Water Act, GI Bill, etc etc...
Addressing these "Passion" problems helped our country grow in the past.
Fixing our Healthcare and Education systems so that Greed and Profit aren't the bottom line priority will help our country.
Post edited by myoung321 on
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
Please copy and paste the post where I said any of the above you posted.
Sorry.. then you're not okay with spending trillions and more trillions on keeping our military all over the world .. got it
Post edited by myoung321 on
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
Please copy and paste the post where I said any of the above you posted. There will be crickets because I didn’t. This is the problem today. If someone doesn’t agree with them, the other person assumes the worst and posts some garbage like above which is a blatant lie. Try to be better than that. If you can’t you are part of the problem I posted on the first or second page of this thread.
Those are great Dem talking points. Spend more money on things and the problems magically disappear. It has worked splendidly for homelessness for instance. Tell me how the government spending more trillions on your passion projects will automatically improve the items you mentioned. Because it is all hypothesis what you would state. There is zero basis saying spending that Government money would make our healthcare and education better.
Dem talking points? They are basic human needs..!!!
Education and Healthcare are "passion" problems? haha wow...
"Zero basis saying that Govt spending helps"?
You do know there was a time in this country when the same was said about the public school (K-12)? Conservatives opposed it... "Why should we pay for poor kids to go to school?"
How about Social Security, Medicare, the Minimum wage and child labor laws, the 8-hour work day, weekends, and sick leave, the Clean Air and Water Act, GI Bill, etc etc...
Addressing these "Passion" problems helped our country!
Hey, I don’t see the quote where you stated I supported /said those items. Start with that or apologize then we can discuss.
Can you post the link on the quote about poor kids please? Couldn’t find it on the Internet.
I agree with all those items. Just didn’t see any huge spending to make any of them happen. It was legislation not spending. So I am all for that.
Libertarian here (Fiscal conservative, socially liberal) who generally thinks BOTH the far left and right are mental. Both tend to be closed minded, use hyperbole and straw men to attack "the other team", and the rest of the country has to suffer as a result.
Ed and most other celebrities aren't forced to live in the real world, and thus preach in a manner disconnected with reality, all while living a life protected by armed security (while preaching against guns), and flying in private jets and riding in gas guzzling busses (while preaching about global warming).
They're hypocrites, but I don't let it impact my enjoyment of the music. I choose to walk away from any preachy fans, and at most shows Ed's ranting is kept pretty low-key. If Ed does get on a roll, it's always a nice time to tune him out, and go grab a beer and piss break.
IMO everyone should be able to do whatever they want as long as it's not hurting someone else (including speaking their mind), and government interference (fiscally & legislatively) should be kept to a bare minimum. Those who think healthcare and college education should be provided for those who can't afford it, nobody's stopping you from voluntarily setting aside a chunk of your salary to help make that happen. No need for a federal mandate.
Here is what I don't get about self proclaimed fiscal conservatives who are against universal health care. Let's look at the numbers.
Health care spending per capita 2018
Canada - $4,974 US - $10,586
So if the US could adopt a similar system with similar costs as Canada, in 2018 the US (between the government, companies, and individuals) could have saved $1,836,246,400,000 on health care spending. Yes that is almost $2 trillion dollars. Heck, even if it was just half way between, it would be almost $1 trillion.
But what does that extra spending get you? A longer life? No.
Average life expectancy Canada - 82.96 years US - 79.11 years
So in the US we are paying over twice the cost per year, and our life expectancy is almost 4 years less than Canada.
But let's play the fiscally conservative card and say this wouldn't work, or doesn't make sense.
Does that cost comparison include taxes and fees used to subsidize healthcare? I honestly don’t know. What I do know is many simple things cost 2 - 3 times more based on what I hear from people in Canada. Maybe those are imports or something else. Again I am not overly educated on the topic. What I can say is if the government managed USPS loses millions while FedEx and UPS make money I don’t have much confidence is those same people running healthcare with any sort of success. I know it’s not apples to apples but just an analogy.
That is not a wholly informed summary of the situation, you should look into it, it's quite fascinating...and very sad.
Why didn’t you put the next sentence in bold too? It says it’s not a wholly informed summary.
Or the statistical breakdown above that clearly does not tell the whole story?
Both we’re simply using numbers to illustrate a point using a couple lines on a complex issue.
But to say the people ultimately in charge of something won’t impact its success is very sad indeed.
Tell me what important parts of the story I'm missing in my statistical summary? I understand it's not a complete picture, but it is pretty telling
Averages can be skewed by outliers. I can only speak for me but I pay nowhere near that for healthcare per year. I am fortunate to have been (knock on wood) relatively healthy. Averages of cost and average life span over hundreds of millions of people are a bit too broad in how they impact segments of that population
A 4 year difference in life expectancy is extremely statistically significant. And of there is a segment of the population having a large impact on bringing the average down, we should be helping them.
The government can’t even run the VA healthcare system efficiently I’m sure they will do great running it for 350 million Americans. Doesn’t mean the current system is working for everyone though.
Exactly!!!!!! They had a doctor on talk radio the other day and he said that if you want to see how well the government could run universal health care just look at the VA which is tiny compared to the amount of people in the U.S. It's been a disaster!!!!
And I've heard doctors on TV or the radio talk about how universal healthcare would address alot of the problems with the US health care system.
Do a little research on the History of School Reform in the US and there are plenty of quotes from conservtives like that, especially in the 1800's... I was being general with the "quote"..sorry..
think about it... we didn't even have integrated schools in the South until the 60s.
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
Please copy and paste the post where I said any of the above you posted. There will be crickets because I didn’t. This is the problem today. If someone doesn’t agree with them, the other person assumes the worst and posts some garbage like above which is a blatant lie. Try to be better than that. If you can’t you are part of the problem I posted on the first or second page of this thread.
Those are great Dem talking points. Spend more money on things and the problems magically disappear. It has worked splendidly for homelessness for instance. Tell me how the government spending more trillions on your passion projects will automatically improve the items you mentioned. Because it is all hypothesis what you would state. There is zero basis saying spending that Government money would make our healthcare and education better.
Dem talking points? They are basic human needs..!!!
Education and Healthcare are "passion" problems? haha wow...
"Zero basis saying that Govt spending helps"?
You do know there was a time in this country when the same was said about the public school (K-12)? Conservatives opposed it... "Why should we pay for poor kids to go to school?"
How about Social Security, Medicare, the Minimum wage and child labor laws, the 8-hour work day, weekends, and sick leave, the Clean Air and Water Act, GI Bill, etc etc...
Addressing these "Passion" problems helped our country!
Hey, I don’t see the quote where you stated I supported /said those items. Start with that or apologize then we can discuss.
Can you post the link on the quote about poor kids please? Couldn’t find it on the Internet.
I agree with all those items. Just didn’t see any huge spending to make any of them happen. It was legislation not spending. So I am all for that.
I did... you ignored it...
You either want to help fellow citizens strive for more or you don't care.. I tend to care about others.. I would rather shutdown some 80+ year old outdated military base or maybe 1 less Aircraft Carrier and pay for more Americans to go to college. We don't need WWII type crap in the Modern world. No one is going to storm the beaches of New Jersey or Texas... We need to stop wasting resources spending money on BS making more Defense Corporations richer and we get poorer as a nation. All Empires fall.. are we going to as well, unless we get smart, history will repeat! Ask the Romans, English, Spanish...etc..etc..etc...... Empires don't last..
Post edited by myoung321 on
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
I can’t imagine going through life making decisions on who I am friends with or surround myself with based on their political thoughts or beliefs. That would be a horrible boring and sad life.
You should try to understand that this is a privileged position to hold. Are you insulated from the political decisions that hurt people?
Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be fired/harassed/discriminated agoainst for their sexuality or gender circumstances due to conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be stripped from the life and family they've built in America because of conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is suffering under medical issues that any other country in the first world would cover? Do you not know anyone who works full-time for a massively profitable company that still can't make ends meet, due to conservative political actions? "Politics" have real-world consequences for people, if you can't see that, then you should work to make your social circle less homogeneous.
Like ecdanc mentioned earlier, how are you going to sit down to dinner with someone as a dear friend, and then turn around the next day and sit down to dinner with someone who campaigns to keep the former from having the same rights you have?
Lol dude calm down. I can see the veins on your neck about to pop just by reading this post. If you want to preach just head down to the corner and bring a box to stand on, the rest of us are just enjoying your frantic arm waving.
That assessment speaks more to your frame of mind than it does mine.
Nah. Re-read your post. Shit’s straight up hilarious. My wife rolled her eyes and threw the phone back at me when she read it. Calm down bro, you’re going to have a stroke or some shit while the rest of us are enjoying our lives.
We live in America and we all have the right to like or back anyone you wish. But at the same time we all have the right to not like someone as well, to me it speaks to who you are as a person to like Trump. I'm 48yrs old and prior to the last election I always voted but if the person I voted for didn't win I did lose sleep over it. I've also voted for both Democrats and Republicans and never thought twice about it. Personally I will never vote for another Republican for the rest of my life. I have LOVED PJ since the beginning and if Eddie came out saying he liked Trump I would never spend another dollar on them again.
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
Please copy and paste the post where I said any of the above you posted. There will be crickets because I didn’t. This is the problem today. If someone doesn’t agree with them, the other person assumes the worst and posts some garbage like above which is a blatant lie. Try to be better than that. If you can’t you are part of the problem I posted on the first or second page of this thread.
Those are great Dem talking points. Spend more money on things and the problems magically disappear. It has worked splendidly for homelessness for instance. Tell me how the government spending more trillions on your passion projects will automatically improve the items you mentioned. Because it is all hypothesis what you would state. There is zero basis saying spending that Government money would make our healthcare and education better.
Dem talking points? They are basic human needs..!!!
Education and Healthcare are "passion" problems? haha wow...
"Zero basis saying that Govt spending helps"?
You do know there was a time in this country when the same was said about the public school (K-12)? Conservatives opposed it... "Why should we pay for poor kids to go to school?"
How about Social Security, Medicare, the Minimum wage and child labor laws, the 8-hour work day, weekends, and sick leave, the Clean Air and Water Act, GI Bill, etc etc...
Addressing these "Passion" problems helped our country!
Hey, I don’t see the quote where you stated I supported /said those items. Start with that or apologize then we can discuss.
Can you post the link on the quote about poor kids please? Couldn’t find it on the Internet.
I agree with all those items. Just didn’t see any huge spending to make any of them happen. It was legislation not spending. So I am all for that.
I did... you ignored it...
You either want to help fellow citizens strive for more or you don't care.. I tend to care about others.. I would rather shutdown some 80+ year old outdated military base or maybe 1 less Aircraft Carrier and pay for more Americans to go to college. We don't need WWII type crap in the Modern world. No one is going to storm the beaches of New Jersey or Texas... We need to stop wasting resources spending money on BS making more Defense Corporations richer and we get poorer as a nation. All Empires fall.. are we going to as well, unless we get smart, history will repeat! Ask the Romans, English, Spanish...etc..etc..etc...... Empires don't last..
So, squirt out a kid and bingo....’free’ college! What a joke. How free? Let’s see:
Lets say Sparky gets out of college at 22yo. Free and clear. And by age 30 is making 100k (for simplicity purposes). To pay for all this college a minimum tax increase would be 10% (realistically closer to 20%). So for the next 30 years of Sparky’s work life he is paying $300k in taxes for that $100k education. Not including COL increases,bonuses,etc. So realistically from age 22 Sparky is paying for 4-5 college educations for his one. Let alone taxing people who did not go to college and are in the trades. How fair is that?!?! College students wanting this.... I would question the value of their education if they cannot figure this out. Let alone the burden on the economy.
There is definitely a problem with the cost of college. It has far exceeded inflation and is burdened with salaries of hangars on and do nothings. It needs to be fixed internally and soon. And we are on the same page with having military bases not on US land.
Then we must respectfully agree to disagree. The cost of education will be returned to us in many ways. I'd rather my tax money go to the investment to educate Sparky than to train him to use a gun to protect overseas corporate interests..
We are a better country since to funded public education K through 12-- We will be an even better country when we expand that...and yes include trade schools, etc...
Have a Great Day!
Post edited by myoung321 on
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
Please copy and paste the post where I said any of the above you posted. There will be crickets because I didn’t. This is the problem today. If someone doesn’t agree with them, the other person assumes the worst and posts some garbage like above which is a blatant lie. Try to be better than that. If you can’t you are part of the problem I posted on the first or second page of this thread.
Those are great Dem talking points. Spend more money on things and the problems magically disappear. It has worked splendidly for homelessness for instance. Tell me how the government spending more trillions on your passion projects will automatically improve the items you mentioned. Because it is all hypothesis what you would state. There is zero basis saying spending that Government money would make our healthcare and education better.
Dem talking points? They are basic human needs..!!!
Education and Healthcare are "passion" problems? haha wow...
"Zero basis saying that Govt spending helps"?
You do know there was a time in this country when the same was said about the public school (K-12)? Conservatives opposed it... "Why should we pay for poor kids to go to school?"
How about Social Security, Medicare, the Minimum wage and child labor laws, the 8-hour work day, weekends, and sick leave, the Clean Air and Water Act, GI Bill, etc etc...
Addressing these "Passion" problems helped our country!
Hey, I don’t see the quote where you stated I supported /said those items. Start with that or apologize then we can discuss.
Can you post the link on the quote about poor kids please? Couldn’t find it on the Internet.
I agree with all those items. Just didn’t see any huge spending to make any of them happen. It was legislation not spending. So I am all for that.
I did... you ignored it...
You either want to help fellow citizens strive for more or you don't care.. I tend to care about others.. I would rather shutdown some 80+ year old outdated military base or maybe 1 less Aircraft Carrier and pay for more Americans to go to college. We don't need WWII type crap in the Modern world. No one is going to storm the beaches of New Jersey or Texas... We need to stop wasting resources spending money on BS making more Defense Corporations richer and we get poorer as a nation. All Empires fall.. are we going to as well, unless we get smart, history will repeat! Ask the Romans, English, Spanish...etc..etc..etc...... Empires don't last..
So, squirt out a kid and bingo....’free’ college! What a joke. How free? Let’s see:
Lets say Sparky gets out of college at 22yo. Free and clear. And by age 30 is making 100k (for simplicity purposes). To pay for all this college a minimum tax increase would be 10% (realistically closer to 20%). So for the next 30 years of Sparky’s work life he is paying $300k in taxes for that $100k education. Not including COL increases,bonuses,etc. So realistically from age 22 Sparky is paying for 4-5 college educations for his one. Let alone taxing people who did not go to college and are in the trades. How fair is that?!?! College students wanting this.... I would question the value of their education if they cannot figure this out. Let alone the burden on the economy.
There is definitely a problem with the cost of college. It has far exceeded inflation and is burdened with salaries of hangars on and do nothings. It needs to be fixed internally and soon. And we are on the same page with having military bases not on US land.
So much bad math and reasoning lol You went to college in the late 80's didn't you?
You may not wish me physical harm for being a minority, but if you support Trump's Republican party, I can't help but feel that you'd be fine looking the other way if harm came to me. I'm a former Republican/fiscal conservative myself. They lost me with their overt racism in 2008. If you have minorities in your life (not just racial minorities) I would beg you to reconsider for this election. Once/if we eradicate this hate, we can get back to conservative vs. liberal politics. Right now, we are in a battle for the soul of our country.
But let’s pretend the massive 10% tax (I’ve seen no one propose that amount) is real.
As long as Trump’s billionaire friends are paying 10% more too (compared to the zero they pay now) I’m all in on this. If we just stopped letting the 1% and corporations evade their annual taxes, we’d probably already have free healthcare.
Seattle 8-8-18 Chicago 8-18-18 Chicago 8-20-18 St. Louis 4-4-20 Denver 4-9-20 Denver 9-22-22 Noblesville 9-10-23 Vancouver 5-6-24 Seattle 5-30-24
But let’s pretend the massive 10% tax (I’ve seen no one propose that amount) is real.
As long as Trump’s billionaire friends are paying 10% more too (compared to the zero they pay now) I’m all in on this. If we just stopped letting the 1% and corporations evade their annual taxes, we’d probably already have free healthcare.
Math was aggressive. Here in AZ tuition for in State is $12k annually. CA is $10k. If you want to go out of state that is kind of your thing and then you are around 25-30k. The pay for college is just for tuition not all the other side expenses. The parents and child can actually invest in their future a little don’t you think? I did and paid my own way as did nearly all my friends.
I don’t mind you questioning my math but saying it is awful shows your ignorance. Especially when I laid it all out. I mean, what did you miss? If you don’t like the theory that is your journey burying your head in the sand.
As a person with no kids, I don’t see a need to pay for someone else’s child’s education other than K-12. Or for people that are in the trades or who have not gone through college to have to pay for. At some time a parent or the child needs to nut up.
But let’s pretend the massive 10% tax (I’ve seen no one propose that amount) is real.
As long as Trump’s billionaire friends are paying 10% more too (compared to the zero they pay now) I’m all in on this. If we just stopped letting the 1% and corporations evade their annual taxes, we’d probably already have free healthcare.
Math was aggressive. Here in AZ tuition for in State is $12k annually. CA is $10k. If you want to go out of state that is kind of your thing and then you are around 25-30k. The pay for college is just for tuition not all the other side expenses. The parents and child can actually invest in their future a little don’t you think? I did and paid my own way as did nearly all my friends.
I don’t mind you questioning my math but saying it is awful shows your ignorance. Especially when I laid it all out. I mean, what did you miss? If you don’t like the theory that is your journey burying your head in the sand.
As a person with no kids, I don’t see a need to pay for someone else’s child’s education other than K-12. Or for people that are in the trades or who have not gone through college to have to pay for. At some time a parent or the child needs to nut up.
College is nowhere near 100k for undergrad unless you go to a private school or out of state. Most community colleges are cheap or free with decent grades and transfer credits to universities. Anyone who takes on a lot of debt should have a direct path to a higher paying job (return on investment) or they were irresponsible. My son recently graduated from a top 25 business school in 3.5 years with a finance degree and a job for under 35k out of pocket after his 21k in scholarships and he worked multiple jobs in school and had 20k in the bank when he graduated.
I will make a statement as a fairly low income person currently in college. My school pays me to go to school and then some that I invest into an index fund each semester. Public and private colleges do a great job at helping financially disadvantaged students. In applying to USC next year where tuition will be free for me. I’m also applying to NYU and Chapman where I’d get $30,000 taken off my tuition just for being low income and having good grades. Big expensive private schools only make rich people pay. In most cases, in my research for an undergrad school, private schools have came through with better prices than most out of state “state” schools.
College isn’t as expensive as I thought before attending
The talk is usually all about undergrad, but grad/professional school is a bigger problem. In another 10-20 years finding a lawyer, doctor, dentist, optometrist, CPA, etc is going to be difficult, and rates are going to be astronomical. The math is difficult. 150k for post grad education alone, 5+% interest rate, starting income at 60-70k for 50hrs a week, boomer professionals trying to sell practices that haven't been updated physically or technologically since the 80's for 500k, add a personal and business mortgage and... Why even bother going to med/law/optom/dental school if it requires starting professional life with 750k debt that you have to work like a schmoe to pay off by your 50's?
My wife has paid 100k on a 130k loan and still owes 110k...and a bunch of spoiled boomers who paid 40k on 30k loans on the SAME salary (thanks to their parents hard work and the post war economy) run around whining about not wanting to pay for millennials "who don't want to work".
It's ridiculous, and it doesn't bode well for the future of our country.
I can’t imagine going through life making decisions on who I am friends with or surround myself with based on their political thoughts or beliefs. That would be a horrible boring and sad life.
You should try to understand that this is a privileged position to hold. Are you insulated from the political decisions that hurt people?
Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be fired/harassed/discriminated agoainst for their sexuality or gender circumstances due to conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be stripped from the life and family they've built in America because of conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is suffering under medical issues that any other country in the first world would cover? Do you not know anyone who works full-time for a massively profitable company that still can't make ends meet, due to conservative political actions? "Politics" have real-world consequences for people, if you can't see that, then you should work to make your social circle less homogeneous.
Like ecdanc mentioned earlier, how are you going to sit down to dinner with someone as a dear friend, and then turn around the next day and sit down to dinner with someone who campaigns to keep the former from having the same rights you have?
Lol dude calm down. I can see the veins on your neck about to pop just by reading this post. If you want to preach just head down to the corner and bring a box to stand on, the rest of us are just enjoying your frantic arm waving.
That assessment speaks more to your frame of mind than it does mine.
Nah. Re-read your post. Shit’s straight up hilarious. My wife rolled her eyes and threw the phone back at me when she read it. Calm down bro, you’re going to have a stroke or some shit while the rest of us are enjoying our lives.
I can’t imagine going through life making decisions on who I am friends with or surround myself with based on their political thoughts or beliefs. That would be a horrible boring and sad life.
You should try to understand that this is a privileged position to hold. Are you insulated from the political decisions that hurt people?
Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be fired/harassed/discriminated agoainst for their sexuality or gender circumstances due to conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is legally liable to be stripped from the life and family they've built in America because of conservative political actions? Do you not know anyone who is suffering under medical issues that any other country in the first world would cover? Do you not know anyone who works full-time for a massively profitable company that still can't make ends meet, due to conservative political actions? "Politics" have real-world consequences for people, if you can't see that, then you should work to make your social circle less homogeneous.
Like ecdanc mentioned earlier, how are you going to sit down to dinner with someone as a dear friend, and then turn around the next day and sit down to dinner with someone who campaigns to keep the former from having the same rights you have?
Lol dude calm down. I can see the veins on your neck about to pop just by reading this post. If you want to preach just head down to the corner and bring a box to stand on, the rest of us are just enjoying your frantic arm waving.
That assessment speaks more to your frame of mind than it does mine.
Nah. Re-read your post. Shit’s straight up hilarious. My wife rolled her eyes and threw the phone back at me when she read it. Calm down bro, you’re going to have a stroke or some shit while the rest of us are enjoying our lives.
+1
Not that it's relevant to the topic, or important at all, but it bears stating again; if you read that as an angry outburst, it speaks more of your mindset than mine. There was no exclamation, no exhortation, no invective. It was a series of rational statements and questions. Angry outbursts don't contain language like "you should work to make your social circle less homogeneous" lol If it seemed vein-popping and stroke-inducing, then methinks you were triggered pretty hard. As a matter of fact, I don't even personally keep to that ideology. I live in rural Ohio, if I let political or religious views determine my friends, family, and acquaintances, I would be very isolated. That doesn't mean I can't understand and help explain the reasoning behind someone like ecdanc's actions, because it makes sense. It's hard to "break bread" with someone who actively campaigns to discriminate against a loved one. That shouldn't be hard to understand.
We live in America and we all have the right to like or back anyone you wish. But at the same time we all have the right to not like someone as well, to me it speaks to who you are as a person to like Trump. I'm 48yrs old and prior to the last election I always voted but if the person I voted for didn't win I did lose sleep over it. I've also voted for both Democrats and Republicans and never thought twice about it. Personally I will never vote for another Republican for the rest of my life. I have LOVED PJ since the beginning and if Eddie came out saying he liked Trump I would never spend another dollar on them again.
The talk is usually all about undergrad, but grad/professional school is a bigger problem. In another 10-20 years finding a lawyer, doctor, dentist, optometrist, CPA, etc is going to be difficult, and rates are going to be astronomical. The math is difficult. 150k for post grad education alone, 5+% interest rate, starting income at 60-70k for 50hrs a week, boomer professionals trying to sell practices that haven't been updated physically or technologically since the 80's for 500k, add a personal and business mortgage and... Why even bother going to med/law/optom/dental school if it requires starting professional life with 750k debt that you have to work like a schmoe to pay off by your 50's?
My wife has paid 100k on a 130k loan and still owes 110k...and a bunch of spoiled boomers who paid 40k on 30k loans on the SAME salary (thanks to their parents hard work and the post war economy) run around whining about not wanting to pay for millennials "who don't want to work".
It's ridiculous, and it doesn't bode well for the future of our country.
I don’t have a masters so I will open with that but part of the decision to pursue one should be cost vs return on investment. Yes they cost more but my rather naive assumption was the careers one could get and salaries one could make with a masters were much more lucrative. Otherwise is doesn’t make sense to seek a masters. I do have some experience working in higher ed and I don’t think schools do a good job at sitting down with students before they take out loans and explaining the payback process with their realistic salary after living expenses... Now schools probably won’t do this as it might lead fewer people to enroll, which makes them more obsolete.
The talk is usually all about undergrad, but grad/professional school is a bigger problem. In another 10-20 years finding a lawyer, doctor, dentist, optometrist, CPA, etc is going to be difficult, and rates are going to be astronomical. The math is difficult. 150k for post grad education alone, 5+% interest rate, starting income at 60-70k for 50hrs a week, boomer professionals trying to sell practices that haven't been updated physically or technologically since the 80's for 500k, add a personal and business mortgage and... Why even bother going to med/law/optom/dental school if it requires starting professional life with 750k debt that you have to work like a schmoe to pay off by your 50's?
My wife has paid 100k on a 130k loan and still owes 110k...and a bunch of spoiled boomers who paid 40k on 30k loans on the SAME salary (thanks to their parents hard work and the post war economy) run around whining about not wanting to pay for millennials "who don't want to work".
It's ridiculous, and it doesn't bode well for the future of our country.
Well, I am not a boomer but an X. my niece went through vet school but had undergrad through scholarships. She had loans for the vet part. We tried to talk her out of it because of the debt but it was what she wanted. She is happy and doing fine but paying debt down as fast as she can. Same as I did. I was ‘poor’ with roommates for a few years after college just to get by. It is what we all did. But I also had worked and saved for 2 years of college and went to a junior college for 2 years. So I was in good shape but I was always afraid of debt. To this day I am.
The issue is how the universities are run. That is more the issue and the escalating tuition. Let’s agree to get the antiquated way colleges are run removed and how there are so many professors doing nothing and are impossible to let go. Make the colleges efficient instead of a retirement program for many professors at age 35.
I don’t want to pay for everyone else’s healthcare. That is trillions. Just like college which is trillions. It is insanity that will cripple the country. Doesn’t mean I don’t have a heart....just steeped in reality.
But you're okay spending trillions on keeping Military Bases open all over the world trying to maintain old Colonial thinking that history shows never works? While we drop down the list in the world in Healthcare and Education? If our priority isn't the well being and eduction our citizens then what's the point?
Please copy and paste the post where I said any of the above you posted. There will be crickets because I didn’t. This is the problem today. If someone doesn’t agree with them, the other person assumes the worst and posts some garbage like above which is a blatant lie. Try to be better than that. If you can’t you are part of the problem I posted on the first or second page of this thread.
Those are great Dem talking points. Spend more money on things and the problems magically disappear. It has worked splendidly for homelessness for instance. Tell me how the government spending more trillions on your passion projects will automatically improve the items you mentioned. Because it is all hypothesis what you would state. There is zero basis saying spending that Government money would make our healthcare and education better.
Dem talking points? They are basic human needs..!!!
Education and Healthcare are "passion" problems? haha wow...
"Zero basis saying that Govt spending helps"?
You do know there was a time in this country when the same was said about the public school (K-12)? Conservatives opposed it... "Why should we pay for poor kids to go to school?"
How about Social Security, Medicare, the Minimum wage and child labor laws, the 8-hour work day, weekends, and sick leave, the Clean Air and Water Act, GI Bill, etc etc...
Addressing these "Passion" problems helped our country!
Hey, I don’t see the quote where you stated I supported /said those items. Start with that or apologize then we can discuss.
Can you post the link on the quote about poor kids please? Couldn’t find it on the Internet.
I agree with all those items. Just didn’t see any huge spending to make any of them happen. It was legislation not spending. So I am all for that.
I did... you ignored it...
You either want to help fellow citizens strive for more or you don't care.. I tend to care about others.. I would rather shutdown some 80+ year old outdated military base or maybe 1 less Aircraft Carrier and pay for more Americans to go to college. We don't need WWII type crap in the Modern world. No one is going to storm the beaches of New Jersey or Texas... We need to stop wasting resources spending money on BS making more Defense Corporations richer and we get poorer as a nation. All Empires fall.. are we going to as well, unless we get smart, history will repeat! Ask the Romans, English, Spanish...etc..etc..etc...... Empires don't last..
So, squirt out a kid and bingo....’free’ college! What a joke. How free? Let’s see:
Lets say Sparky gets out of college at 22yo. Free and clear. And by age 30 is making 100k (for simplicity purposes). To pay for all this college a minimum tax increase would be 10% (realistically closer to 20%). So for the next 30 years of Sparky’s work life he is paying $300k in taxes for that $100k education. Not including COL increases,bonuses,etc. So realistically from age 22 Sparky is paying for 4-5 college educations for his one. Let alone taxing people who did not go to college and are in the trades. How fair is that?!?! College students wanting this.... I would question the value of their education if they cannot figure this out. Let alone the burden on the economy.
There is definitely a problem with the cost of college. It has far exceeded inflation and is burdened with salaries of hangars on and do nothings. It needs to be fixed internally and soon. And we are on the same page with having military bases not on US land.
I think the idea here is that my taxes would be paying for my kid to go to college. Nothing is free. I am in favor of this.
Public college and trades should be "public school" like high school. You want to go to Harvard? Notre Dame? Villanova? Fine, those are private institutions and you can pay tuition to go there.
Public college (State directional schools and such)....should be just that. Public. It should not cost 200K to send a kid to a "Western Illinois University" for 4 years. And making this public would bring some of that cost down.
And that doesnt mean 4 years of "everything is free". It just means accessible. You can still pay book fees, lab fees, food, etc. Dorm living should be covered. Off campus living should not.
Investing in our own citizens to be ready for the workplace will help the US be sustainable without needing to offshore work or bring in people who are qualified.
And this way, future job placement can help guide students into workstreams that will see job openings.
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2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
Education and Healthcare are "passion" problems? wow...
"Zero basis saying that Govt spending helps"?
You do know there was a time in this country when the same was said about the public school (K-12)? Conservatives opposed it... "Why should we pay for poor kids to go to school?"
How about Social Security, Medicare, the Minimum wage and child labor laws, the 8-hour work day, weekends, and sick leave, the Clean Air and Water Act, GI Bill, etc etc...
Addressing these "Passion" problems helped our country grow in the past.
Fixing our Healthcare and Education systems so that Greed and Profit aren't the bottom line priority will help our country.
Sorry.. then you're not okay with spending trillions and more trillions on keeping our military all over the world .. got it
I agree with all those items. Just didn’t see any huge spending to make any of them happen. It was legislation not spending. So I am all for that.
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
think about it... we didn't even have integrated schools in the South until the 60s.
You either want to help fellow citizens strive for more or you don't care.. I tend to care about others.. I would rather shutdown some 80+ year old outdated military base or maybe 1 less Aircraft Carrier and pay for more Americans to go to college. We don't need WWII type crap in the Modern world. No one is going to storm the beaches of New Jersey or Texas... We need to stop wasting resources spending money on BS making more Defense Corporations richer and we get poorer as a nation. All Empires fall.. are we going to as well, unless we get smart, history will repeat! Ask the Romans, English, Spanish...etc..etc..etc...... Empires don't last..
Lets say Sparky gets out of college at 22yo. Free and clear. And by age 30 is making 100k (for simplicity purposes). To pay for all this college a minimum tax increase would be 10% (realistically closer to 20%). So for the next 30 years of Sparky’s work life he is paying $300k in taxes for that $100k education. Not including COL increases,bonuses,etc. So realistically from age 22 Sparky is paying for 4-5 college educations for his one. Let alone taxing people who did not go to college and are in the trades. How fair is that?!?! College students wanting this.... I would question the value of their education if they cannot figure this out. Let alone the burden on the economy.
There is definitely a problem with the cost of college. It has far exceeded inflation and is burdened with salaries of hangars on and do nothings. It needs to be fixed internally and soon. And we are on the same page with having military bases not on US land.
Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
We are a better country since to funded public education K through 12-- We will be an even better country when we expand that...and yes include trade schools, etc...
Have a Great Day!
You went to college in the late 80's didn't you?
I'm a former Republican/fiscal conservative myself. They lost me with their overt racism in 2008. If you have minorities in your life (not just racial minorities) I would beg you to reconsider for this election. Once/if we eradicate this hate, we can get back to conservative vs. liberal politics. Right now, we are in a battle for the soul of our country.
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In another 10-20 years finding a lawyer, doctor, dentist, optometrist, CPA, etc is going to be difficult, and rates are going to be astronomical.
The math is difficult.
150k for post grad education alone, 5+% interest rate, starting income at 60-70k for 50hrs a week, boomer professionals trying to sell practices that haven't been updated physically or technologically since the 80's for 500k, add a personal and business mortgage and... Why even bother going to med/law/optom/dental school if it requires starting professional life with 750k debt that you have to work like a schmoe to pay off by your 50's?
My wife has paid 100k on a 130k loan and still owes 110k...and a bunch of spoiled boomers who paid 40k on 30k loans on the SAME salary (thanks to their parents hard work and the post war economy) run around whining about not wanting to pay for millennials "who don't want to work".
It's ridiculous, and it doesn't bode well for the future of our country.
If it seemed vein-popping and stroke-inducing, then methinks you were triggered pretty hard.
As a matter of fact, I don't even personally keep to that ideology. I live in rural Ohio, if I let political or religious views determine my friends, family, and acquaintances, I would be very isolated. That doesn't mean I can't understand and help explain the reasoning behind someone like ecdanc's actions, because it makes sense. It's hard to "break bread" with someone who actively campaigns to discriminate against a loved one. That shouldn't be hard to understand.
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Lots Lots Lots of shows.....
2018 - Seattle 2/Missoula
Public college and trades should be "public school" like high school. You want to go to Harvard? Notre Dame? Villanova? Fine, those are private institutions and you can pay tuition to go there.
Public college (State directional schools and such)....should be just that. Public. It should not cost 200K to send a kid to a "Western Illinois University" for 4 years. And making this public would bring some of that cost down.
And that doesnt mean 4 years of "everything is free". It just means accessible. You can still pay book fees, lab fees, food, etc. Dorm living should be covered. Off campus living should not.
Investing in our own citizens to be ready for the workplace will help the US be sustainable without needing to offshore work or bring in people who are qualified.
And this way, future job placement can help guide students into workstreams that will see job openings.
Nuclear fission