Question for Republifans

mace1229

Vedd Hedd said:

Also, imo....people entering trades should get the same type of well-rounded education that a typical 4 year education provides, too. 

At some point...people got tired of "core classes" because "this isnt what I am here for"...when in reality....yes it is.   You SHOULD be there to learn more about the world, other fields, other ideas and bigger things than just your chosen workstream.  

An educated population is a population that has a better understanding of our world, the needs of the world, and our own country. 

Just because a person is going to become a carpenter, doesnt mean they shouldnt get an education in history, science, art, etc. 

One attractive piece of trade school is many are 1-2 years and you can get to work sooner. There’s nothing stopped people from going to a community college for 2 years and getting an AA. That’s pretty much the same thing as what you’re asking for, why turn an 18 month program into 4 years? Especially when you want it to be free now.
Community college is very affordable by the way. I tell anyone who is conserned about paying for college to consider 2 years at community college first.

Vedd Hedd

mace1229 said:

Vedd Hedd said:

Also, imo....people entering trades should get the same type of well-rounded education that a typical 4 year education provides, too. 

At some point...people got tired of "core classes" because "this isnt what I am here for"...when in reality....yes it is.   You SHOULD be there to learn more about the world, other fields, other ideas and bigger things than just your chosen workstream.  

An educated population is a population that has a better understanding of our world, the needs of the world, and our own country. 

Just because a person is going to become a carpenter, doesnt mean they shouldnt get an education in history, science, art, etc. 

One attractive piece of trade school is many are 1-2 years and you can get to work sooner. There’s nothing stopped people from going to a community college for 2 years and getting an AA. That’s pretty much the same thing as what you’re asking for, why turn an 18 month program into 4 years? Especially when you want it to be free now.
Community college is very affordable by the way. I tell anyone who is conserned about paying for college to consider 2 years at community college first.

These are good points, and I wont argue them much.   That said, a 1-2 year program wont nearly be as extensive and well rounded as a 3-4 year program.  (maybe we need to rethink trying to mold this into something that is currently offered)

But my point is...most trades or AA degrees are very streamlined, and focused solely on the career.   When most 4 year degrees allow for some flexibility in the first few years before the person has to decide a major.  While some people know EXACTLY what they want to do for the next 50 years of their lives at 17 year old....a lot of people are unsure, and frankly unaware of what the world has to offer.   High schools need to do better in this as well, but I think my goal here was to have everyone capable of the basic well rounded college degree.   Electricians should know about sociology, philosophy.   Business majors should know about history.  History teachers should understand home economics.  Etc.   It just makes for a more educated person, and it seems to make people more understanding of the different career paths, as well as the different viewpoints on life.  

Personally...there is a severe lack of historical knowledge in this country that is scares me.  

mace1229

Vedd Hedd said:

mace1229 said:

Vedd Hedd said:

Also, imo....people entering trades should get the same type of well-rounded education that a typical 4 year education provides, too. 

At some point...people got tired of "core classes" because "this isnt what I am here for"...when in reality....yes it is.   You SHOULD be there to learn more about the world, other fields, other ideas and bigger things than just your chosen workstream.  

An educated population is a population that has a better understanding of our world, the needs of the world, and our own country. 

Just because a person is going to become a carpenter, doesnt mean they shouldnt get an education in history, science, art, etc. 

One attractive piece of trade school is many are 1-2 years and you can get to work sooner. There’s nothing stopped people from going to a community college for 2 years and getting an AA. That’s pretty much the same thing as what you’re asking for, why turn an 18 month program into 4 years? Especially when you want it to be free now.
Community college is very affordable by the way. I tell anyone who is conserned about paying for college to consider 2 years at community college first.

These are good points, and I wont argue them much.   That said, a 1-2 year program wont nearly be as extensive and well rounded as a 3-4 year program.  (maybe we need to rethink trying to mold this into something that is currently offered)

But my point is...most trades or AA degrees are very streamlined, and focused solely on the career.   When most 4 year degrees allow for some flexibility in the first few years before the person has to decide a major.  While some people know EXACTLY what they want to do for the next 50 years of their lives at 17 year old....a lot of people are unsure, and frankly unaware of what the world has to offer.   High schools need to do better in this as well, but I think my goal here was to have everyone capable of the basic well rounded college degree.   Electricians should know about sociology, philosophy.   Business majors should know about history.  History teachers should understand home economics.  Etc.   It just makes for a more educated person, and it seems to make people more understanding of the different career paths, as well as the different viewpoints on life.  

Personally...there is a severe lack of historical knowledge in this country that is scares me.  

I believe a trade school + 2 years of community college can be as well rounded as most majors in a 4 year school.
The trade school will be focused like a major, the AA/community college can offer a rounded education in all the areas you mentioned and a lot more.
I majored in chemistry in college. I took very few non-science (non-chemistry for that matter) classes after my first 2 years. It was very focused on my major. Really the only year I didn’t have a lot of chemistry was my first year, after that it was mostly chem classes with 1 or 2 gen ed classes spread in.

We seem to mostly agree. I think anyone who wants a trade school and a well rounded education can find it. Most probably just want to get into their career sooner though.

I also don’t think it should be free for some reasons already mentioned. And we al know nothing is free, it just means make someone else pay for it. So why make the person who decides to go to a trade school and enter a career early pay for the guy who wants to party for 4 years? Pay for what you want to do. I would agree college has gotten crazy expensive and out of control. I don’t know why more don’t consider a community college. I think we fail our kids by making that option seem like less of an education. I went for my first year, it cost $12 a unit, got my first year out of the way for under $1000. If someone’s determined to go to a 4-year the whole time, awesome, great for them, I wish them the best. But pay for it. There are other options.

mace1229

Here’s the beef I have about complaining about college expense. We tell kids a 4-year school is the next natural step. That should only be the case if money isn’t an issue for you or you got an amazing scholarship. Also, living on campus is actually more expensive. Get 4 people, share a 2 bedroom apartment and it will be a lot cheaper and give you more space and privacy than a dorm. Food plans on campus are expensive. You prepay for meals, so when you don’t use them you still paid for it, and it’s still expensive even when you do use them all. A money conscious college student can do a lot better living off campus and eating $5 whole Costco chickens. That’s even if you need to move out on your own, we sell this image of moving away from home and finding yourself.

College debt could be cut in half by going to a 2-year first and living off campus the next 2. 

But everyone wants that 4-year college dorm experience to find yourself at 30-40K a year. Then complain about student loans the next 30 years.

eddiec

mace1229 said:

Here’s the beef I have about complaining about college expense. We tell kids a 4-year school is the next natural step. That should only be the case if money isn’t an issue for you or you got an amazing scholarship. Also, living on campus is actually more expensive. Get 4 people, share a 2 bedroom apartment and it will be a lot cheaper and give you more space and privacy than a dorm. Food plans on campus are expensive. You prepay for meals, so when you don’t use them you still paid for it, and it’s still expensive even when you do use them all. A money conscious college student can do a lot better living off campus and eating $5 whole Costco chickens. That’s even if you need to move out on your own, we sell this image of moving away from home and finding yourself.

College debt could be cut in half by going to a 2-year first and living off campus the next 2. 

But everyone wants that 4-year college dorm experience to find yourself at 30-40K a year. Then complain about student loans the next 30 years.

Who wants a 4-year college dorm experience? 
In terms of cost, it depends on where the school is located. Housing at U of Richmond will be astronomically cheaper than at NYU.

RiotAct41

My two favorite bands by far are Pearl Jam and DMB. The frontmen in both are huge liberals, even though I’m not.  Doesn’t bother me

drakeheuer14

mace1229 said:

Here’s the beef I have about complaining about college expense. We tell kids a 4-year school is the next natural step. That should only be the case if money isn’t an issue for you or you got an amazing scholarship. Also, living on campus is actually more expensive. Get 4 people, share a 2 bedroom apartment and it will be a lot cheaper and give you more space and privacy than a dorm. Food plans on campus are expensive. You prepay for meals, so when you don’t use them you still paid for it, and it’s still expensive even when you do use them all. A money conscious college student can do a lot better living off campus and eating $5 whole Costco chickens. That’s even if you need to move out on your own, we sell this image of moving away from home and finding yourself.

College debt could be cut in half by going to a 2-year first and living off campus the next 2. 

But everyone wants that 4-year college dorm experience to find yourself at 30-40K a year. Then complain about student loans the next 30 years.

The meal plan options they offer are such shit. The thing is, they force the “college experience” on you at least for the first year. Having to stay on campus, needing at least the basic meal plan, etc. Oh, and “University 101” - these are the types of courses/electives where they aren’t really trying to make you well rounded, just screw you out of some money by saying it’s mandatory. 

... and NEVER transfer schools. The amount of credits they tried to screw me with and make me retake (even though some of the classes were the exact same) was unbelievable when I did. I took classes over a summer to stay on track with my graduation date, but I would continually have to argue with advisors about my credits/standing/progression even after that.