The coronavirus

hedonist

Meltdown99 said:

People who violate the rules need to face real consequences.  There was a Halloween 🎃 party at the local university in which some nursing students picked up the virus and brought the virus to a hospital.  They should have been kicked out of school and banned from working in Ontario hospitals for 5 years...fucking stupid people.  And those that throw super spreader events should have their drivers licence suspended for a year.  

I was at the grocery store and witnessed a douche mauling the celery with his grubby hands...in those cases we should have the right to slap those idiots...

They should indeed face consequences. And if you put your hands on anyone to “teach them a lesson”, be prepared to get your ass walloped and maybe even prosecuted. 

what dreams

F Me In The Brain said:

rgambs said:

I don't want to rehash everything and start it all over, but y'all gave what dreams the raw deal yesterday.  Y'all feel just as strongly as she does and you were dramatic too, you were just on the consensus side...
Maybe Zoom learning isn't perfect, but neither is in class learning, especially in Covid times.  My son doesn't get to talk to his teacher and she's too busy teaching ABC's and 123's to kids with shitty parents to teach him to read and do the addition and subtraction he's ready to learn.  That's nothing new, either.  I had maybe 3-5 teachers as good as McGruff in my entire school career, we all know there's some bullshit teaching going on in every school.

I fucking GUARANTEE that distance learning with engaged parents beats in school learning left to the teachers in students without disabilities and special issues.  I double-damn guarantee it for gifted students.

In- person learning with the current model isn't the best possible model, it's just the one with the widest net, that brings the most average people to an average level of education...I don't have a problem with it, I'm just saying it's not the end-all, and someone defending their ability to teach differently during a fucking pandemic! shouldn't have to deal with verbiage like 'garbage', IMO.

I think I was nice to her given the way she came at parents.  I also understand how upsetting this is - and while I am not a teacher I can imagine how tough it is to be one.
Further, I agree that schools should be closed in hot zones.
I will argue on your guarantee.  My son's teacher this term is amazing.  I love this woman.  I agree that she could be a part of a great learning environment if we spend time with him every day, which of course we do.
However, the teacher he had last term was a pile of shit, as far as teaching remotely went.  Horrible.  Dogshit   yes, Garbage.  I don't know how she slept at night.  I gave her a pass and didn't go to the principal and board because of everything everyone is going through but it was actually a waste of time to have our son engage in any remote learning stuff with this teacher.

So, clearly it depends.

I suggested she take a walk or find a way to cool down - and still suggest that based on the posts.  I'm glad she is helping her students but that doesn't mean I have to agree or not be critical of the crazy / angry post about anyone wanting schools to stay open just being about free baby sitting and playmates.  

To suggest the responses to her are sexist because most teachers are women?
I won't even validate that statement by arguing it.
Wrong.

Thank you, F Me, for your always thoughtful responses to me. I heard your initial feedback loud and clear and meant to respond yesterday but got sidetracked by the attacks. 

Perhaps it is *the tired, overworked parents who are overly sensitive and dramatic* when someone points out the clear fact that they want schools to be open for babysitting purposes. If you spend as much time as I do in the comments sections of articles on this topic (or even listening to the minority of parents in my own district), you would hear and read the recurring theme: How can I put food on the table if I have to stay home with my child? It is absolutely a valid point for parents to make. I'm not attacking parents. I'm just saying that the child care factor is a major political driver behind school board decisions to open schools in hot zones, which basically is the entire country right now. The entire country is a hot zone. We're all struggling with these difficult situations. Let's just be real about what's going on, is all I was saying -- and some people got really sensitive and dramatic about it, to the point of telling me this morning to fuck off, which I duly flagged as a violation of forum rules.

And yes, the sexist tropes against teachers are a real thing. The sexist expectations of teachers are a real thing. It's sad people don't see it. 

Halifax2TheMax

12 days since the election and covid is going away like things go away. Rounding that corner. Hard.

HughFreakingDillon

what dreams said:

F Me In The Brain said:

rgambs said:

I don't want to rehash everything and start it all over, but y'all gave what dreams the raw deal yesterday.  Y'all feel just as strongly as she does and you were dramatic too, you were just on the consensus side...
Maybe Zoom learning isn't perfect, but neither is in class learning, especially in Covid times.  My son doesn't get to talk to his teacher and she's too busy teaching ABC's and 123's to kids with shitty parents to teach him to read and do the addition and subtraction he's ready to learn.  That's nothing new, either.  I had maybe 3-5 teachers as good as McGruff in my entire school career, we all know there's some bullshit teaching going on in every school.

I fucking GUARANTEE that distance learning with engaged parents beats in school learning left to the teachers in students without disabilities and special issues.  I double-damn guarantee it for gifted students.

In- person learning with the current model isn't the best possible model, it's just the one with the widest net, that brings the most average people to an average level of education...I don't have a problem with it, I'm just saying it's not the end-all, and someone defending their ability to teach differently during a fucking pandemic! shouldn't have to deal with verbiage like 'garbage', IMO.

I think I was nice to her given the way she came at parents.  I also understand how upsetting this is - and while I am not a teacher I can imagine how tough it is to be one.
Further, I agree that schools should be closed in hot zones.
I will argue on your guarantee.  My son's teacher this term is amazing.  I love this woman.  I agree that she could be a part of a great learning environment if we spend time with him every day, which of course we do.
However, the teacher he had last term was a pile of shit, as far as teaching remotely went.  Horrible.  Dogshit   yes, Garbage.  I don't know how she slept at night.  I gave her a pass and didn't go to the principal and board because of everything everyone is going through but it was actually a waste of time to have our son engage in any remote learning stuff with this teacher.

So, clearly it depends.

I suggested she take a walk or find a way to cool down - and still suggest that based on the posts.  I'm glad she is helping her students but that doesn't mean I have to agree or not be critical of the crazy / angry post about anyone wanting schools to stay open just being about free baby sitting and playmates.  

To suggest the responses to her are sexist because most teachers are women?
I won't even validate that statement by arguing it.
Wrong.

Thank you, F Me, for your always thoughtful responses to me. I heard your initial feedback loud and clear and meant to respond yesterday but got sidetracked by the attacks. 

Perhaps it is *the tired, overworked parents who are overly sensitive and dramatic* when someone points out the clear fact that they want schools to be open for babysitting purposes. If you spend as much time as I do in the comments sections of articles on this topic (or even listening to the minority of parents in my own district), you would hear and read the recurring theme: How can I put food on the table if I have to stay home with my child? It is absolutely a valid point for parents to make. I'm not attacking parents. I'm just saying that the child care factor is a major political driver behind school board decisions to open schools in hot zones, which basically is the entire country right now. The entire country is a hot zone. We're all struggling with these difficult situations. Let's just be real about what's going on, is all I was saying -- and some people got really sensitive and dramatic about it, to the point of telling me this morning to fuck off, which I duly flagged as a violation of forum rules.

And yes, the sexist tropes against teachers are a real thing. The sexist expectations of teachers are a real thing. It's sad people don't see it. 

the majority of my girls' teachers have been men. so take your sexism accusations and, well......(not to mention I don't recall knowing, until your accusations, what gender you were, so there's that)

i do see both sides of it. my wife works in child care. she is dealing with the same things you describe about keeping these industries open meanwhile other industries don't. it's not just about "babysitting". it's also the mental health of the child, normalcy, mental health of the parent and family unit as a whole, supporting front line workers. and so far, at least where i live, so good. 

cutz

Looks like a packed in crowd and I don't care if there wearing mask or not. I don't think there should be a packed crowd like this.

This is in NJ

https://youtu.be/79sVLYTTGzs

Meltdown99

hedonist said:

Meltdown99 said:

People who violate the rules need to face real consequences.  There was a Halloween 🎃 party at the local university in which some nursing students picked up the virus and brought the virus to a hospital.  They should have been kicked out of school and banned from working in Ontario hospitals for 5 years...fucking stupid people.  And those that throw super spreader events should have their drivers licence suspended for a year.  

I was at the grocery store and witnessed a douche mauling the celery with his grubby hands...in those cases we should have the right to slap those idiots...

They should indeed face consequences. And if you put your hands on anyone to “teach them a lesson”, be prepared to get your ass walloped and maybe even prosecuted. 

I said should.  Never said would.  Be prosecuted..lol.  This is Canada...read up on our justice system. 

HughFreakingDillon

fauci seems to think that the US could be back to basically normal by april or july. 

he is way overestimating (or underestimating, depending how you look at it) the anti-vax or just simply the lazy-vax crowd. 

static111

Edit: long rant.  Basically Trumpers at work are running with this to prove Democrat conspiracy that it goes away if a Dem wins.  On top of the fact that fauci also said there could be 200,000 more deaths in the next few months.

PJNB

HughFreakingDillon said:

fauci seems to think that the US could be back to basically normal by april or july. 

he is way overestimating (or underestimating, depending how you look at it) the anti-vax or just simply the lazy-vax crowd. 

Interesting. I was half watching an interview with him on CNN this morning and something that caught my attention was even after you have been vaccinated you should wear a mask due to there being a chance of being in the 10% that it was ineffective. 

Everything that I have read puts herd immunity with a vaccine or already having the virus around 60-70%. Is that the number we need to be at to be normal again? I do not think so. If by April the high risk group should all have had a chance at the vaccine. By June the general population will have had a couple months to have access to the shots. Depending on how fast they can roll it out that is a large chunk of the general population as well as hopefully the majority of the most vulnerable. Also factor in by the time the vaccine is out 20 million people in the states will have tested positive and will not need access to the vaccine. And of course there will be a large portion of the population that will pass on the vaccine. Does that change when we go back to normal? Do we have things setup for people that are vaccinated and those that are not miss out? I feel like if they pass on the vaccine that should not hurt the responsible civilians that taking the shot and should not slow down when we go back to normal.

All of that considered I really think would be good enough for me to go back to normal by summer. There are a lot of things that need to happen for that to be possible and no hiccups with the vaccine but that is how I see it. 

HughFreakingDillon

PJNB said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

fauci seems to think that the US could be back to basically normal by april or july. 

he is way overestimating (or underestimating, depending how you look at it) the anti-vax or just simply the lazy-vax crowd. 

Interesting. I was half watching an interview with him on CNN this morning and something that caught my attention was even after you have been vaccinated you should wear a mask due to there being a chance of being in the 10% that it was ineffective. 

Everything that I have read puts herd immunity with a vaccine or already having the virus around 60-70%. Is that the number we need to be at to be normal again? I do not think so. If by April the high risk group should all have had a chance at the vaccine. By June the general population will have had a couple months to have access to the shots. Depending on how fast they can roll it out that is a large chunk of the general population as well as hopefully the majority of the most vulnerable. Also factor in by the time the vaccine is out 20 million people in the states will have tested positive and will not need access to the vaccine. All of that considered I really think would be good enough for me to go back to normal by summer. There are a lot of things that need to happen for that to be possible and no hiccups with the vaccine but that is how I see it. 

so we know this? does prior infection equal immunization?

Spiritual_Chaos

static111 said:

Edit: long rant.  Basically Trumpers at work are running with this to prove Democrat conspiracy that it goes away if a Dem wins.  On top of the fact that fauci also said there could be 200,000 more deaths in the next few months.

Is it custom to speak politics in the US at work/lunch etc?

In Sweden, people in general people do to talk about what they are voting for or push their convictions etc.

HughFreakingDillon

at my workplace (office with all classes), it isn't common. been there 23 years, in several different departments/capacities, and the only politics anyone ever talks about is trump. i never experienced any political talk prior to him. 

Meltdown99

Spiritual_Chaos said:

static111 said:

Edit: long rant.  Basically Trumpers at work are running with this to prove Democrat conspiracy that it goes away if a Dem wins.  On top of the fact that fauci also said there could be 200,000 more deaths in the next few months.

Is it custom to speak politics in the US at work/lunch etc?

In Sweden, people in general people do to talk about what they are voting for or push their convictions etc.

Politics is a blood sport in the US...

PJNB

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJNB said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

fauci seems to think that the US could be back to basically normal by april or july. 

he is way overestimating (or underestimating, depending how you look at it) the anti-vax or just simply the lazy-vax crowd. 

Interesting. I was half watching an interview with him on CNN this morning and something that caught my attention was even after you have been vaccinated you should wear a mask due to there being a chance of being in the 10% that it was ineffective. 

Everything that I have read puts herd immunity with a vaccine or already having the virus around 60-70%. Is that the number we need to be at to be normal again? I do not think so. If by April the high risk group should all have had a chance at the vaccine. By June the general population will have had a couple months to have access to the shots. Depending on how fast they can roll it out that is a large chunk of the general population as well as hopefully the majority of the most vulnerable. Also factor in by the time the vaccine is out 20 million people in the states will have tested positive and will not need access to the vaccine. All of that considered I really think would be good enough for me to go back to normal by summer. There are a lot of things that need to happen for that to be possible and no hiccups with the vaccine but that is how I see it. 

so we know this? does prior infection equal immunization?

I had thought that to be true without reading up on it since I assumed that the vaccine did the same thing to our immune system as does actually getting the virus. Reading up on it however it does suggest to still get one though I would guess they would be at the bottom of the list of people that get it if they are not in the most vulnerable category. Also I wonder with kids not being allowed to get the vaccine how does that play out for herd immunity? There are reports that they will not get the vaccine for at least 5 years from now. 

FACT: People who have gotten sick with COVID-19 may still benefit from getting vaccinated

Due to the severe health risks associated with COVID-19 and the fact that re-infection with COVID-19 is possible, people may be advised to get a COVID-19 vaccine even if they have been sick with COVID-19 before.

At this time, experts do not know how long someone is protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. The immunity someone gains from having an infection, called natural immunity, varies from person to person. Some early evidence suggests natural immunity may not last very long.

We won’t know how long immunity produced by vaccination lasts until we have a vaccine and more data on how well it works.

Both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are important aspects of COVID-19 that experts are trying to learn more about, and CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

cincybearcat

Meltdown99 said:

People who violate the rules need to face real consequences.  There was a Halloween 🎃 party at the local university in which some nursing students picked up the virus and brought the virus to a hospital.  They should have been kicked out of school and banned from working in Ontario hospitals for 5 years...fucking stupid people.  And those that throw super spreader events should have their drivers licence suspended for a year.  

I was at the grocery store and witnessed a douche mauling the celery with his grubby hands...in those cases we should have the right to slap those idiots...

I agree. Need real consequences.

OnWis97

Minnesota GOP making the national GOP proud...

https://www.fox9.com/news/minnesota-senate-gop-held-large-in-person-dinner-party-just-before-covid-outbreak.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Meltdown99

cincybearcat said:

Meltdown99 said:

People who violate the rules need to face real consequences.  There was a Halloween 🎃 party at the local university in which some nursing students picked up the virus and brought the virus to a hospital.  They should have been kicked out of school and banned from working in Ontario hospitals for 5 years...fucking stupid people.  And those that throw super spreader events should have their drivers licence suspended for a year.  

I was at the grocery store and witnessed a douche mauling the celery with his grubby hands...in those cases we should have the right to slap those idiots...

I agree. Need real consequences.

I see no other at this point.  I've followed the rules for 8 months and have worked through this pandemic...as have most of the people here on the PJ message board.  At this point, I have very little tolerance for ignorant people.  And unfortunately, we have a lot of Trump supporters...and that I think is fuelling a lot of the BS here...

brianlux

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

Just curious as to what you all say to a person when you're in line at the post office or grocery store and someone gets in line behind you without a mask? 

This happened to me today at the post office (the only one in the area open on Saturday, half day).  This lady gets behind me and has no mask.  The sign on the wall asks everyone to wear a mask.  I ask the lady, "Do you have a mask?"  She say no.  I tell her firmly, "Well then, you need to back off!"  She back off a good ways.  I didn't mean to sound overly threatening... but I wasn't exactly nice either. 

Isn’t there a mask mandate there still? We’ve had one since March or April and it has ever been lifted . We can’t get into a store or building without one, most have someone monitoring people coming in and will stop you if you don’t have one.
I thought California was even more strict about it.

We absolutely have a mask mandate.  We also have ignorant or selfish people who think they are above the mandate.  The problem is, a lot of people are afraid to say anything to anti maskers, so the walk around without a mask or, just as bad, wear one down on their chin.  Some people are just really shitty that way.

brianlux

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

lastexitlondon said:

brianlux said:

Just curious as to what you all say to a person when you're in line at the post office or grocery store and someone gets in line behind you without a mask? 

This happened to me today at the post office (the only one in the area open on Saturday, half day).  This lady gets behind me and has no mask.  The sign on the wall asks everyone to wear a mask.  I ask the lady, "Do you have a mask?"  She say no.  I tell her firmly, "Well then, you need to back off!"  She back off a good ways.  I didn't mean to sound overly threatening... but I wasn't exactly nice either. 

Funny you should  post this.  Today a delivery womam  came into our stairwell . 2 flats in the  stair well.
She came up the stairs knocked our door with a mask under her chin. I said "thats gonna do fuck all under your chin"
Ive had enough of these absolute  dunces. She scurried off without  a word. 
Both of us are then at risk

Oh man, no kidding!  It's almost like some people make a joke of wearing a mask.  "You're not going to save you chin from the virus, buddy!"

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

Just curious as to what you all say to a person when you're in line at the post office or grocery store and someone gets in line behind you without a mask? 

This happened to me today at the post office (the only one in the area open on Saturday, half day).  This lady gets behind me and has no mask.  The sign on the wall asks everyone to wear a mask.  I ask the lady, "Do you have a mask?"  She say no.  I tell her firmly, "Well then, you need to back off!"  She back off a good ways.  I didn't mean to sound overly threatening... but I wasn't exactly nice either. 

I don’t think I’d have said “back off”; it doesn’t strike me as threatening as much as it does somewhat dickish- not calling you a dick, to be clear. 

I haven’t been in that position but hope I’d use different words in a scenario like that...especially depending on the other person too.

I’m not so bold (read: ballsy, in my physical state) to tell some huge angry person they need to back off

Actually, now that I think of it, I'm certain I said, "You're going to need to back up,"  but in my head I was saying, "back off".  But yeah, basically the same thing.  At this point, my patience wears thin with people that go into a place for five minutes and can't wear a fucking mask.  Especially when there are workers out there who have to wear one 40 hours a week.  I think the people who refuse to wear masks are the ones being dicks (or other anatomical parts).   Everyone knows it's required.

Because of my age and impaired immune system, I stopped working in the bookstore and just do my own on-line business and work a few hours when I can organizing after hours.  My co-workers at the store have to wear a mask all day.  The younger fellow who is basically our manager there works the most hours and he has to deal with the shitheads who come in and say "I don't have to wear a mask."  I'm sure he handles it better than I do. 

The fact is, customers do have to wear a mask.  Some of them will say "I'm allowed to not wear a mask due to medical conditions."  That is false.  They do not have the right to not wear a mask.  In fact, the law basically says, "You have the right to not shop in a store when asked to wear a mask."  There's a lot of misunderstanding about the mask laws.

I understand the risk of exposure to myself - I have an incurable disease, for fuck’s sake! I too have no desire to be around some stranger who may or may not get me ill. I get the masks. I use the masks. I’m talking about HOW that’s conveyed to others. 

You do you though. Same goes for everyone. Yell at them, curse at them, whatever. Just because I won’t doesn’t mean others shouldn’t. I’m certainly no etiquette police.  

I don't yell at them or curse them- never!  But I don't "pretty please" them either.  They know what they're supposed to do.  At this point, anyone not wearing a mask is a prick.  I'm not cutting anyone any slack on this issue.  Not when my life and yours and others are at stake.  If they are acting like infantile spoiled brats or idiots, they need to be confronted and spoken to firmly. 

static111

Spiritual_Chaos said:

static111 said:

Edit: long rant.  Basically Trumpers at work are running with this to prove Democrat conspiracy that it goes away if a Dem wins.  On top of the fact that fauci also said there could be 200,000 more deaths in the next few months.

Is it custom to speak politics in the US at work/lunch etc?

In Sweden, people in general people do to talk about what they are voting for or push their convictions etc.

When it comes to dear leader and the industry that I am currently employed in for a few more days (national defense) it’s pretty inescapable at all levels.  Most of the leadership and management positions are conservative and depending on how vocal you are against their “facts” it could cause serious consequences to your employment.  I start work at a Samsung manufacturing plant next week and I am hoping that things aren’t so bad in the tech sector.