I've already said it in other threads but I requested only for reserved seats in STL and got declined. Other people have pointed out that people with that show as their second choice got tickets though. I'm disappointed but mostly confused by what happened.
Write and call 10c and keep writing and calling until they give you an actual explanation. That shouldn't have happened to anyone. Hope you make it into the show.
I appreciate it. I've never worked with 10 club customer service before. Obviously I don't expect that they can fix my ticket situation but are they generally pretty helpful and response to inquiries like this?
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
8-31-98 - Raleigh
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
I’m pretty sure BA is the same as 1st choice GA, 2nd choice Res. Haven’t seen anything to tell me this is wrong.
I don't think that's it at all. BA says "any ticket will do." BA is not 2 choices. It's just one choice without section restrictions. At some point in the drawing process, every ticket in the building is the Best Available. Even when there is only 1 Reserved ticket in the last row remaining... that ticket is still the Best Available.
8-31-98 - Raleigh
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
I am fairly certain that Kevinman has nailed it on two counts. The first is that 99% odds are relative to first choice only. I believe this is how it has been since we could put in for unlimited shows. He is also correct that it could have been explained more clearly for newer members. That being said, those who are complaining/threatening to leave Tenclub because Best Available does not supersede Reserved need to get a grip. Why should you have an equal shot to someone's first choice when you already had a shot at GA? Doesn't make sense at all and wouldn't be fair.
I feel for those who did not get tickets, but keep in mind that this has happened to nearly all of us at some point. I have been a member since the '90s, and I was shut out for the 2016 Boston and Chicago shows and the Temple of the Dog shows. It was a bummer, but so it goes (KV).
The % in previous lotteries has always been based on overall picks, not just your first pick to my knowledge.
And Reserved over BA makes nonsense. They should be equal. Who says reserved was a second choice? Many just want the best chance at a ticket so to selected either-or as the option. Some prefer a seat, some prefer GA, most just want a ticket. Sure, most probably prefer GA, but also probably wouldn’t have chosen BA if they knew it lessened their chances of getting in.
I assumed it worked this way. If your name was pulled and you selected GA only you got GA, unless that was filled then you got rejected. If you picked Reserved then you got Reserved, unless it was filled. If you picked BA it considered GA then moved to Reserved if none was available. Why should it not work like that?
Respectfully, I can't fathom how the % would be based on overall picks, because that percentage would then include sixth, seventh, eighth choices. There is no way mathematically any show could be 99% under those terms, particularly when the number of available tickets has always been fewer, according to the Tenclub presale information/summary itself.
Regarding the BA/Reserved question, I can see your perspective and understand why people are confused, but there is no logical way the two are equal. Assuming first choices for both, BA can't have two shots while Reserved has only one. If that were the case, it would be pure foolishness for anyone to request Reserved unless they absolutely wanted the ability to sit down or they hated open spaces. I would say the solution to that uncertainty is to eliminate Best Available altogether, which has proven to be a less than ideal addition.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
No, BA does not get two chances. Every name has an equal chance to be drawn ONE TIME. Once a name is drawn, then you check to see if they chose BA, GA, or Reserved, and award the ticket accordingly. There is no two chances.
Post edited by tubes10s on
8-31-98 - Raleigh
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
8-31-98 - Raleigh
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
Definitely not a “fair” process. When the odds are 99% for reserved tickets for most shows, and there are this many upset 10c members, it’s obvious they (Ticketmaster and 10c) messed up. What a shame.
Just because the odds were 99% when entered does not mean it stayed at 99% - a majority were much much lower as the lottery ended.
3 hours before lottery ended MSG - TOR - BAL were like 60% Res & 10% GA
If people were smart, they would have waited until a few hours before the deadline, looked at the odds, and then make a decision. Even changing their decision.
Is it really better to have a 10% chance to see pearl Jam in GA, and not go to the show at all if they lose, vs taking the safer reserved route?
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
No, BA does not get two chances. Every name has an equal chance to be drawn ONE TIME. Once a name is drawn, then you check to see if they chose BA, GA, or Reserved, and award the ticket accordingly. There is no two chances.
Well, there are two chances. I don't see how there are not two chances. If you have a chance at two sections, and I have a chance at one section, then you have one more chance than I do. That is two priorities vs. one, which is not how it works. Every name cannot possibly have an equal chance to be drawn one time because many of those names are requesting different sections. They are in competition with those who requested the same section, not everyone who requested the same show. This is why you do not see and have never seen a percentage for BA.
Definitely not a “fair” process. When the odds are 99% for reserved tickets for most shows, and there are this many upset 10c members, it’s obvious they (Ticketmaster and 10c) messed up. What a shame.
Just because the odds were 99% when entered does not mean it stayed at 99% - a majority were much much lower as the lottery ended.
3 hours before lottery ended MSG - TOR - BAL were like 60% Res & 10% GA
If people were smart, they would have waited until a few hours before the deadline, looked at the odds, and then make a decision. Even changing their decision.
Is it really better to have a 10% chance to see pearl Jam in GA, and not go to the show at all if they lose, vs taking the safer reserved route?
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
Great explanation. After reading the comments in these threads the last couple of days I am surprised how confused many people are about the process but hopefully your contribution here will help them understand.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
Great explanation. After reading the comments in these threads the last couple of days I am surprised how confused many people are about the process but hopefully your contribution here will help them understand.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
My understanding is the names of everyone who requested tickets for the show as their first priority show are randomly picked all at once. Tickets are awarded based on their selections if their name is drawn until tickets are no longer available. If the tickets are not depleted in this first round of randomly selecting names from those that selected the show as their first priority show, then the names of all those that requested that show as their second priority will be randomly selected in a second round. There will be as many rounds as needed to deplete the available 10c tickets.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
My understanding is the names of everyone who requested tickets for the show as their first priority show are randomly picked all at once. Tickets are awarded based on their selections if their name is drawn until tickets are no longer available. If the tickets are not depleted in this first round of randomly selecting names from those that selected the show as their first priority show, then the names of all those that requested that show as their second priority will be randomly selected in a second round. There will be as many rounds as needed to deplete the available 10c tickets.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
My understanding is the names of everyone who requested tickets for the show as their first priority show are randomly picked all at once. Tickets are awarded based on their selections if their name is drawn until tickets are no longer available. If the tickets are not depleted in this first round of randomly selecting names from those that selected the show as their first priority show, then the names of all those that requested that show as their second priority will be randomly selected in a second round. There will be as many rounds as needed to deplete the available 10c tickets.
I should also add that if your name is not selected in the first round, that I don’t think they simply throw your name back in the hat for the second round. You didn’t get picked and they move on to a round randomly selecting names who put the show as priority 2.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
My understanding is the names of everyone who requested tickets for the show as their first priority show are randomly picked all at once. Tickets are awarded based on their selections if their name is drawn until tickets are no longer available. If the tickets are not depleted in this first round of randomly selecting names from those that selected the show as their first priority show, then the names of all those that requested that show as their second priority will be randomly selected in a second round. There will be as many rounds as needed to deplete the available 10c tickets.
I should also add that if your name is not selected in the first round, that I don’t think they simply throw your name back in the hat for the second round. You didn’t get picked and they move on to a round randomly selecting names who put the show as priority 2.
There would only be a second round if all first priority names were drawn and there were still tickets left. There shouldn't be any first priority names left to add to a second round.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
My understanding is the names of everyone who requested tickets for the show as their first priority show are randomly picked all at once. Tickets are awarded based on their selections if their name is drawn until tickets are no longer available. If the tickets are not depleted in this first round of randomly selecting names from those that selected the show as their first priority show, then the names of all those that requested that show as their second priority will be randomly selected in a second round. There will be as many rounds as needed to deplete the available 10c tickets.
I should also add that if your name is not selected in the first round, that I don’t think they simply throw your name back in the hat for the second round. You didn’t get picked and they move on to a round randomly selecting names who put the show as priority 2.
There would only be a second round if all first priority names were drawn and there were still tickets left. There shouldn't be any first priority names left to add to a second round.
Yeah you are right. I am still waking up. I thought about my failed logic and couldn’t figure out how to delete my comment on my phone. Thanks.
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
My understanding is the names of everyone who requested tickets for the show as their first priority show are randomly picked all at once. Tickets are awarded based on their selections if their name is drawn until tickets are no longer available. If the tickets are not depleted in this first round of randomly selecting names from those that selected the show as their first priority show, then the names of all those that requested that show as their second priority will be randomly selected in a second round. There will be as many rounds as needed to deplete the available 10c tickets.
I should also add that if your name is not selected in the first round, that I don’t think they simply throw your name back in the hat for the second round. You didn’t get picked and they move on to a round randomly selecting names who put the show as priority 2.
There would only be a second round if all first priority names were drawn and there were still tickets left. There shouldn't be any first priority names left to add to a second round.
Yeah you are right. I am still waking up. I thought about my failed logic and couldn’t figure out how to delete my comment on my phone. Thanks.
I've posted before coffee a few times and then been like "WTF?!?" when looking back at my own words. Happens to us all!
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
I see your point of view if the sections were drawn in some sort of order, which they very well may have been. I don't think they were, but again, this is all just my opinion. I don't believe that the intention was to fill GA before moving on to Reserved. I think that all 1st priority names were thrown in a hat. As each name was drawn, then I think they were checked to see which choice they made (BA, GA, Res) and awarded the ticket that fit their choice.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
My understanding is the names of everyone who requested tickets for the show as their first priority show are randomly picked all at once. Tickets are awarded based on their selections if their name is drawn until tickets are no longer available. If the tickets are not depleted in this first round of randomly selecting names from those that selected the show as their first priority show, then the names of all those that requested that show as their second priority will be randomly selected in a second round. There will be as many rounds as needed to deplete the available 10c tickets.
I should also add that if your name is not selected in the first round, that I don’t think they simply throw your name back in the hat for the second round. You didn’t get picked and they move on to a round randomly selecting names who put the show as priority 2.
There would only be a second round if all first priority names were drawn and there were still tickets left. There shouldn't be any first priority names left to add to a second round.
Yeah you are right. I am still waking up. I thought about my failed logic and couldn’t figure out how to delete my comment on my phone. Thanks.
I've posted before coffee a few times and then been like "WTF?!?" when looking back at my own words. Happens to us all!
I picked MSG Res and it ended with a 57% chance. I knew right then I was a loser. Unless the odds are way up there like the Stadium Shows I am always shocked if I win. My lottery % wins in the past is horrible. My friend wins the lottery every time. Every single time. It's just luck.
Thank you fellow 10 clubber for saving my ass....again!!!
Definitely not a “fair” process. When the odds are 99% for reserved tickets for most shows, and there are this many upset 10c members, it’s obvious they (Ticketmaster and 10c) messed up. What a shame.
Just because the odds were 99% when entered does not mean it stayed at 99% - a majority were much much lower as the lottery ended.
3 hours before lottery ended MSG - TOR - BAL were like 60% Res & 10% GA
Just my opinion, but this is how I see this lottery system working with the descriptions we were all given before we all made our selections:
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
No, BA does not get two chances. Every name has an equal chance to be drawn ONE TIME. Once a name is drawn, then you check to see if they chose BA, GA, or Reserved, and award the ticket accordingly. There is no two chances.
Well, there are two chances. I don't see how there are not two chances. If you have a chance at two sections, and I have a chance at one section, then you have one more chance than I do. That is two priorities vs. one, which is not how it works. Every name cannot possibly have an equal chance to be drawn one time because many of those names are requesting different sections. They are in competition with those who requested the same section, not everyone who requested the same show. This is why you do not see and have never seen a percentage for BA.
It's not 2 chances... your name only has 1 chance to be drawn. The "competition" only happens when your 1 entry is drawn and they see what is available based on your preference.
The whole point of the lottery is to fairly pick people (in random order) that want to go to a show and see if the type of seat they prefer is available. The previous system forced you to "gamble" (all in or call) on GA or seated...but really you just wanted a 3rd option which was the best available as 1st choice. I think many would have a 1st choice of GA (as close as possible or nothing) ...but some don't want to stand (or whatever reason)...and so their 1st choice would be reserved...but maybe the greatest number of us ultimately just want in the building (with the best seats possible) now have an option.
Question: if you selected BA did it check GA and Res?
If so, this is the same as 1st priority GA 2nd priority Res.
Lottery works as follows:
2 Hats first round: GA and BA in 1 hat. Res in separate hat2.
Hat 1: Names are drawn out of GA and BA until seats are full. If you had GA selected and name not drawn...you are out. If you had BA selected you stay in this hat for second round.
Hat2: Res names are drawn until full or out of names. If there are seats still left after all Res names are drawn, the remaining names from Hat 1(BA) are drawn until full or out of names.
if still seats are available then people with this show as 2nd choice are drawn.
The only thing I’m unsure of is if someone had 2 shows selected Res only. This was their 2nd choice, do they enter with BA hat 2nd drawing of hat1 or only picked after BA all picked.
I am lost, I'm no guide, but I'm by your side
06.27.98 Alpine Valley 10.08.00 Alpine Valley 09.23.02 Chicago 06.18.03 Chicago | 06.21.03 Alpine Valley 10.03.04 Grand Rapids 10.05.05 Chicago 05.16.06 Chicago | 05.17.06 Chicago | 06.29.06 Milwaukee 08.02.07 Chicago | 08.05.07 Chicago 08.23.09 Chicago | 08.24.09 Chicago 05.07.10 Noblesville | 05.09.10 Cleveland 09.03.11 Alpine Valley | 09.04.11 Alpine Valley 07.19.13 Chicago 10.17.14 Moline 08.20.16 Chicago 08.18.18 Chicago 09.18.22 St. Louis 09.05.23 Chicago
I picked MSG Res and it ended with a 57% chance. I knew right then I was a loser. Unless the odds are way up there like the Stadium Shows I am always shocked if I win. My lottery % wins in the past is horrible. My friend wins the lottery every time. Every single time. It's just luck.
Question: if you selected BA did it check GA and Res?
If so, this is the same as 1st priority GA 2nd priority Res.
Lottery works as follows:
2 Hats first round: GA and BA in 1 hat. Res in separate hat2.
Hat 1: Names are drawn out of GA and BA until seats are full. If you had GA selected and name not drawn...you are out. If you had BA selected you stay in this hat for second round.
Hat2: Res names are drawn until full or out of names. If there are seats still left after all Res names are drawn, the remaining names from Hat 1(BA) are drawn until full or out of names.
if still seats are available then people with this show as 2nd choice are drawn.
The only thing I’m unsure of is if someone had 2 shows selected Res only. This was their 2nd choice, do they enter with BA hat 2nd drawing of hat1 or only picked after BA all picked.
How do you know? Stop spreading speculation as fact
Comments
All 1st Priority BA, 1st Priority GA-only, and 1st Priority Reserved-only names are thrown into the pool. Names are drawn. Names drawn with BA as their choice get GA until GA tickets are gone, and then names drawn with BA as their choice get Reserved tickets. Names drawn with GA-only get GA tickets when they get picked as long as there are GA tickets remaining. Names drawn with Reserved-only get Reserved tickets when they get picked as long as there are Reserved tickets remaining. This continues until all tickets are gone. If all 1st Priority names are drawn and there are still tickets left, then repeat this process with 2nd Priority, etc.
I tend to believe that this is how it worked... or is at least this is how it was intended to work based on the emails we received before signing up for tickets. To think that Reserved-only or GA-only were going to give precedence over BA in any scenario at all just doesn't make sense. Choosing BA says "just get me in the building." It gives you access to 100% of the available tickets. Every ticket in the building is the Best Available at some point in the process. Choosing GA-only or Reserved-only is of course going to lower your chances compared to BA. Those choices give you access to some percentage LESS THAN 100% of the available tickets.
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
i put in for Stl and Nash... both Best Available and both at 99%. My wife then entered for GA only for the same shows... 0 for 4.
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
If this were accurate, then all tickets would be BA and Tenclub wouldn't bother with GA or Reserved options. You are still giving BA two chances at tickets to one chance for those who requested Reserved, and even those who requested GA! That is inherently unfair. There would be no GA tickets for those who requested GA, which would be kind of odd. This is not at all how it was intended to work, and there is nothing in the emails that says or implies that this would be the case.
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
When all this is over, I'd love to hear the logic TM used for this lottery though. Now, I'm really curious.
It seems that they would have to be drawn in order, with GA first, because some of us requested both GA and Reserved but can't have both. All first priority names can't be thrown in one hat, because the priorities/choices are not the same. If my first priority is Reserved, and yours is GA, we can't be in the same hat. There would be no point in putting us in the same hat; we've requested different tickets. To me, the simple solution is to eliminate BA. I know from years and years of ticket-buying experience that the band and club look out for us, which is why BA is an option to begin with, but BA might produce more problems than it solves.
Is it really better to have a 10% chance to see pearl Jam in GA, and not go to the show at all if they lose, vs taking the safer reserved route?
Well, there are two chances. I don't see how there are not two chances. If you have a chance at two sections, and I have a chance at one section, then you have one more chance than I do. That is two priorities vs. one, which is not how it works. Every name cannot possibly have an equal chance to be drawn one time because many of those names are requesting different sections. They are in competition with those who requested the same section, not everyone who requested the same show. This is why you do not see and have never seen a percentage for BA.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
The whole point of the lottery is to fairly pick people (in random order) that want to go to a show and see if the type of seat they prefer is available. The previous system forced you to "gamble" (all in or call) on GA or seated...but really you just wanted a 3rd option which was the best available as 1st choice. I think many would have a 1st choice of GA (as close as possible or nothing) ...but some don't want to stand (or whatever reason)...and so their 1st choice would be reserved...but maybe the greatest number of us ultimately just want in the building (with the best seats possible) now have an option.
If so, this is the same as 1st priority GA 2nd priority Res.
Lottery works as follows:
2 Hats first round: GA and BA in 1 hat. Res in separate hat2.
Hat 1: Names are drawn out of GA and BA until seats are full. If you had GA selected and name not drawn...you are out. If you had BA selected you stay in this hat for second round.
Hat2: Res names are drawn until full or out of names. If there are seats still left after all Res names are drawn, the remaining names from Hat 1(BA) are drawn until full or out of names.
if still seats are available then people with this show as 2nd choice are drawn.
The only thing I’m unsure of is if someone had 2 shows selected Res only. This was their 2nd choice, do they enter with BA hat 2nd drawing of hat1 or only picked after BA all picked.
10.08.00 Alpine Valley
09.23.02 Chicago
06.18.03 Chicago | 06.21.03 Alpine Valley
10.03.04 Grand Rapids
10.05.05 Chicago
05.16.06 Chicago | 05.17.06 Chicago | 06.29.06 Milwaukee
08.02.07 Chicago | 08.05.07 Chicago
08.23.09 Chicago | 08.24.09 Chicago
05.07.10 Noblesville | 05.09.10 Cleveland
09.03.11 Alpine Valley | 09.04.11 Alpine Valley
07.19.13 Chicago
10.17.14 Moline
08.20.16 Chicago
08.18.18 Chicago
09.18.22 St. Louis
09.05.23 Chicago