The Democratic Presidential Debates
Comments
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It's freaking maddening!brianlux said:darwinstheory said:
Well said, Brian.brianlux said:mickeyrat said:
no, cuz he and his bandmates are proven fucking liars......brianlux said:Halifax2TheMax said:
Nikki Styx is being groomed. Might even replace Pence on the ticket.OnWis97 said:
And had she been a male with all else equal, I wonder if she would have won.brianlux said:Lerxst1992 said:My SO, a liberal voter, firmly believes that America will not elect a woman president as the country currently exists.
She staunchly thinks it is impossible. Is she as bad as Bernie?
Actually, we already did once, by vote count anyway.
I think we’ll get a female president soon; Ivanka. Even if that’s not the case, I think the first female president is going to be a Republican. America doesn’t like (perceived) liberal women...they might even be accused of being “feminists.”Why not go with Sixx!
Sadly, that's what a certain current president does.mickeyrat said:Damn good thing some posters on this site cant vote here.....soundbites and memes do not make an informed voter.
To bad a large percentage of American voters will vote based on soundbites, memes, mainstream "news", and whatever it is they have been brainwashed into believing without doing any research or suing critical thinking on their own. I mean, how else could we have ended up with Trump? It a sad state of affairs.It's more than a bit frustrating, isn't it?That brings up the question of what to do about it- how to not only get more people out to vote, but how to get them to vote in a more informed manner. Better education and parenting come to mind, but education in the U.S. seems to be a low priority and better parenting cannot be made mandatory. I don't know how or if things will get better that way.
I think the majority lacks the attention span to read anything beyond Twitter feeds and news headlines. Obviously, this oversimplifies real politics.
Maybe it starts with the parents discussing politics with their children before they turn 18. But that could result in stronger party lines.
"A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory0 -
honestly, i don't blame people for not being highly informed. the amount of effort it takes to wade through the bullshit and get the real deal is infuriating. most people are way too busy for that.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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HughFreakingDillon said:honestly, i don't blame people for not being highly informed. the amount of effort it takes to wade through the bullshit and get the real deal is infuriating. most people are way too busy for that.
That's why I'm liking Yang more and more these days- less bullshit, more straightforward ideas based on good thinking. And he's the only one who has avoided all the usual mudslinging bullshit and stuck to the issues- one very big reason I can't no longer get behind the front runners.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Perhaps im wrong but I don't recall Pete, Joe or Amy launching any attacks on Democrats either. Bernie, Warren, Booker, and Kamela all did so. I admittedly haven't taken Yang seriously, but I enjoyed him on Maher this week.brianlux said:HughFreakingDillon said:honestly, i don't blame people for not being highly informed. the amount of effort it takes to wade through the bullshit and get the real deal is infuriating. most people are way too busy for that.
That's why I'm liking Yang more and more these days- less bullshit, more straightforward ideas based on good thinking. And he's the only one who has avoided all the usual mudslinging bullshit and stuck to the issues- one very big reason I can't no longer get behind the front runners.0 -
Amy's staffers are technically Democrats, right?mrussel1 said:
Perhaps im wrong but I don't recall Pete, Joe or Amy launching any attacks on Democrats either. Bernie, Warren, Booker, and Kamela all did so. I admittedly haven't taken Yang seriously, but I enjoyed him on Maher this week.brianlux said:HughFreakingDillon said:honestly, i don't blame people for not being highly informed. the amount of effort it takes to wade through the bullshit and get the real deal is infuriating. most people are way too busy for that.
That's why I'm liking Yang more and more these days- less bullshit, more straightforward ideas based on good thinking. And he's the only one who has avoided all the usual mudslinging bullshit and stuck to the issues- one very big reason I can't no longer get behind the front runners.
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mrussel1 said:
Perhaps im wrong but I don't recall Pete, Joe or Amy launching any attacks on Democrats either. Bernie, Warren, Booker, and Kamela all did so. I admittedly haven't taken Yang seriously, but I enjoyed him on Maher this week.brianlux said:HughFreakingDillon said:honestly, i don't blame people for not being highly informed. the amount of effort it takes to wade through the bullshit and get the real deal is infuriating. most people are way too busy for that.
That's why I'm liking Yang more and more these days- less bullshit, more straightforward ideas based on good thinking. And he's the only one who has avoided all the usual mudslinging bullshit and stuck to the issues- one very big reason I can't no longer get behind the front runners.I shouldn't generalize- some for sure have done much less negative campaigning than others. I hadn't taken Yang very seriously either but after spending a lot more time listening to him, I'm stoked. I really like this guy and what he says. For example, Yang a said he believes "the American people are looking for a commander-in-chief with the right temperament, judgement, and values."
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
@mrussel1Spiritual_Chaos said:
Who in the race doesn't?mrussel1 said:
And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
AOC hits the nail on the head once again. Never not correct.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Yeah, no shit. You don't have to be a politically genius to see that.Spiritual_Chaos said:AOC hits the nail on the head once again. Never not correct.0 -
The statement is a comparative of the candidates. According to polling, Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did.Spiritual_Chaos said:
@mrussel1Spiritual_Chaos said:
Who in the race doesn't?mrussel1 said:
And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.0 -
And right on cue... https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/479084-sanders-apologizes-to-biden-for-supporters-op-edbrianlux said:mrussel1 said:
Perhaps im wrong but I don't recall Pete, Joe or Amy launching any attacks on Democrats either. Bernie, Warren, Booker, and Kamela all did so. I admittedly haven't taken Yang seriously, but I enjoyed him on Maher this week.brianlux said:HughFreakingDillon said:honestly, i don't blame people for not being highly informed. the amount of effort it takes to wade through the bullshit and get the real deal is infuriating. most people are way too busy for that.
That's why I'm liking Yang more and more these days- less bullshit, more straightforward ideas based on good thinking. And he's the only one who has avoided all the usual mudslinging bullshit and stuck to the issues- one very big reason I can't no longer get behind the front runners.I shouldn't generalize- some for sure have done much less negative campaigning than others. I hadn't taken Yang very seriously either but after spending a lot more time listening to him, I'm stoked. I really like this guy and what he says. For example, Yang a said he believes "the American people are looking for a commander-in-chief with the right temperament, judgement, and values."
Good for Bernie for apologizing, bad for Bernie for having created an environment where they think it's okay. Sanders people are always on the attack.0 -
I don't agree with her, and believe she knows what she's saying isn't the case. The problem isn't that the Democratic Party is one or the other, the problem is that there are two factions within the Democratic Party - one is a left party, the other is closer to center. The leftness of the party's policy, in the polarized climate seen today, will in all likelihood have an inverse relationship with getting the votes in either elections, or for having bills passed in the House or Senate. If I were in charge of the Democratic Party's vision planning, my mind would go right to this conundrum and it looks to me like there are three potential options:Spiritual_Chaos said:AOC hits the nail on the head once again. Never not correct.
1) Target the center, be seen as reasonable from a political compromise perspective, appeal from center-left to center-right
2) Continue to not discuss the multiple factions, and dilute/contradict messaging/impact from the center and messaging/impact from the left, and risk credibility posing as both simultaneously (current state)
3) Target the left, risk voters from center-left to center-right, effectively abandon the right (and truly embolden their voters to oppose), ram bills through with Executive Order, hope for their stickiness so the next President would be unpopular to void those Orders
SC, I agree with your vision, I just think the brute force method you propose of instituting change to align with that vision will never amount to that vision being realized, and an incremental approach is necessary. Votes are the currency on which change is bought, and your vision today doesn't have the votes.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
On the topic of lies.mrussel1 said:
The statement is a comparative of the candidates. According to polling, Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did.Spiritual_Chaos said:
@mrussel1Spiritual_Chaos said:
Who in the race doesn't?mrussel1 said:
And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.Just as Many African-Americans Say They’d Consider Voting for Bernie Sanders as Joe Biden
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z3bnvw/exclusive-poll-just-as-many-african-americans-say-theyd-consider-voting-for-bernie-sanders-as-joe-biden
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
mrussel1 said:
Yeah, no shit. You don't have to be a politically genius to see that.Spiritual_Chaos said:AOC hits the nail on the head once again. Never not correct.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
nvm
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
I'd consider voting for Bernie, that doesn't make him my preferred. That poll means nothing. You pull the lever for one candidate, no matter how many you would consider. In every poll I've seen, Biden wins AA votes convincingly.Spiritual_Chaos said:
On the topic of lies.mrussel1 said:
The statement is a comparative of the candidates. According to polling, Biden does best with these groups, even better than Booker and Harris did.Spiritual_Chaos said:
@mrussel1Spiritual_Chaos said:
Who in the race doesn't?mrussel1 said:
And you knew it would be right at Iowa and NH, two states where white voters mean everything, and these two appeal to the white more than minorities.Just as Many African-Americans Say They’d Consider Voting for Bernie Sanders as Joe Biden
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z3bnvw/exclusive-poll-just-as-many-african-americans-say-theyd-consider-voting-for-bernie-sanders-as-joe-biden0 -
Remember when Freddy Krueger told his mom Amanda "We'll see bitch, we'll just see"?
Replace "Freddy Krueger" with "Bernie Sanders", and "Bitch" with "Biden". And remove the part about Freddy being rude to his mom."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
It's silly for her to call it center conservative. Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States. Because I'd the electoral college, it's essentially political suicide to splinter a party. Every election, best case would be resolved in the HOR, and it would take a generation (and for the Republicans to split) to create an effective left coalition. I don't think we want all of our POTUS elections resolved there. So, either AOC needs to get comfortable with the big tent or exit.benjs said:
I don't agree with her, and believe she knows what she's saying isn't the case. The problem isn't that the Democratic Party is one or the other, the problem is that there are two factions within the Democratic Party - one is a left party, the other is closer to center. The leftness of the party's policy, in the polarized climate seen today, will in all likelihood have an inverse relationship with getting the votes in either elections, or for having bills passed in the House or Senate. If I were in charge of the Democratic Party's vision planning, my mind would go right to this conundrum and it looks to me like there are three potential options:Spiritual_Chaos said:AOC hits the nail on the head once again. Never not correct.
1) Target the center, be seen as reasonable from a political compromise perspective, appeal from center-left to center-right
2) Continue to not discuss the multiple factions, and dilute/contradict messaging/impact from the center and messaging/impact from the left, and risk credibility posing as both simultaneously (current state)
3) Target the left, risk voters from center-left to center-right, effectively abandon the right (and truly embolden their voters to oppose), ram bills through with Executive Order, hope for their stickiness so the next President would be unpopular to void those Orders
SC, I agree with your vision, I just think the brute force method you propose of instituting change to align with that vision will never amount to that vision being realized, and an incremental approach is necessary. Votes are the currency on which change is bought, and your vision today doesn't have the votes.0 -
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.mrussel1 said:
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
If you include China, Russia, Turkey, Iran, and a host of African and ME nations, it's really hard to declare the Democratic party as center conservative. That's silly. There's more to the world than Western EuropeSpiritual_Chaos said:
So, her "comparison" is Europe. And your "world political stage" is what? And if it's a comparison - then how could it be or certainly not be the States? If "the States" - then it wouldn't be a comparison.mrussel1 said:
Her "comparison" must be European countries, not the world political stage and certainly not the States.
- The new Pearl jam album sounds a lot more New Wave than Neil Young does.
- In a "Comparison" to Neil Young yes -- but it sounds the exact same amount of New Wave as Pearl Jam does!0
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