I agree. Don't vote for that liar Bernie sanders. Just ask Elizabeth Warren.
Agreed.
And still you'd proudly vote for fascist Trump over Sanders.
So maybe skip joining in on this discussion.
It just shows what a horrible candidate Sanders is in my eyes. I ll continue to engage in this discussion since I m the only one voting in the election between the two of us.
Why do you so often piggyback on other peoples posts and opinions? Now its Mickeyrats endlessly repeated (and moot) punchline you choose to parrot. Historically it has most often been mrussels.
I don't get that trait.
And say what you want about Sanders being "horrible", you still would pick full blown racist Trump and his 8000+ lies. Which i don't even think the parroted in here would be able to defend. Or at least I hope they can't.
And that's the end of the "engaging" for me, because what is there to gain from someone who would "proudly" choose Trump over a normal human being. You that even are the only one voting in the election between the two of us! Come on Man! (Biden quote)
Yes voting for trump over sanders is a very popular opinion around here that I have piggybacked (insert sarcasm). Second amendment rights is one where I got against the norm. On Iran, mrussell and I went head to head. So I"m not really sure where you are coming from on that one. All my thoughts are my own. I did use mickeyrats line about you not voting here in the us. Guilty as charged.
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Fingers crossed
That Biden wins? Agreed.
No, fingers crossed that your taxes are so high that you can't take care of your family.
Since it may be a while before we get to full communism, I'd like to see taxes increased across the board, but definitely on anyone who would be significantly affected by Sanders's policies.
Communism is a failed economic philosophy and is for fucking morons. Excuse my language.
Agreed. Are north korea and Cuba shining examples?
Well Cambodia and the Soviet Block were stunning successes as well. Even Vietnam transferred from a centrally planned to a market economy starting in the 80's and now over 40 million people were lifted out of poverty. People who advocate for communism just have never done any real critical analysis. They read Marx and say "aha!". Yet it fails every time.
Democratic socialism has provided the far best successes in history. If you want to go down that path.
Greedy capitalism fueled by egocentrism and patriotism (read nationalism) has not.
There's a world of difference between Dem socialism/socialism and communism.
Never said there wasn't.
then I don't understand your point. Your country is also driven by greedy capitalism, since we have the same fundamental economic system. The only difference is that your government provides more social services, but we are the same economy at the end of the day. I'm contrasting it to full blown communism.
Greedy vile dictatorships draining a country for the sole reason of the dictator and the elite isn't "full blown communism". It's greedy vile dictatorships misusing a system.
Just like fascist Trump is misusing a system for the sole reason of himself and the elite.
But I am not interested in having a discussion about communism vs capitalism. I doubt there can be anything out there as tired as discussing that. Maybe people claiming No Code is better than Riot Act. But just maybe.
And I am to my knowledge not allowed to discuss Sweden vs the US if I want to keep my posting privileges - so I am not able to go into the differences and what you are wrong about concerning that. But it's okey because:
INT. DAN'S TRUCK - NIGHT
For the third time, Alice is turning the corner headed towards Debbie's driveway.
ALICE Here we are.
DAN Something's wrong here. It feels like...
EXT. DEBBIE'S HOUSE - NIGHT
Alice is about to pull in, then BAM, SMASH CUT TO:
EXT. STREET CORNER - NIGHT
You guessed it. Dan waits as Alice comes running up.
ALICE AND DAN (simultaneously) C'mon, we have to hurry. I'm driving.
Alice stares at Dan.
ALICE Oh God, I'm still asleep. He's got us going in circles.
Communism may be fine on paper, but history has shown that in practice, it is corrupted into violence and oppression against one's own people. At the end of the day, the leaders of any country will not be peasants. It's just not human nature. So you're right.. 'greedy vile dictators', but that's the nature when you consolidate all economic, military and political power into one small group of people/person.
Human nature is a myth.
Fine, then Communism creates monsters. Better?
And capitalism creates dead bodies?
Communism does a fine job with that too.
Capitalism's got a big lead...
Per capita?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I agree. Don't vote for that liar Bernie sanders. Just ask Elizabeth Warren.
Agreed.
And still you'd proudly vote for fascist Trump over Sanders.
So maybe skip joining in on this discussion.
It just shows what a horrible candidate Sanders is in my eyes. I ll continue to engage in this discussion since I m the only one voting in the election between the two of us.
Why do you so often piggyback on other peoples posts and opinions? Now its Mickeyrats endlessly repeated (and moot) punchline you choose to parrot. Historically it has most often been mrussels.
I don't get that trait.
And say what you want about Sanders being "horrible", you still would pick full blown racist Trump and his 8000+ lies. Which i don't even think the parroted in here would be able to defend. Or at least I hope they can't.
And that's the end of the "engaging" for me, because what is there to gain from someone who would "proudly" choose Trump over a normal human being. You that even are the only one voting in the election between the two of us! Come on Man! (Biden quote)
Yes voting for trump over sanders is a very popular opinion around here that I have piggybacked (insert sarcasm). Second amendment rights is one where I got against the norm. On Iran, mrussell and I went head to head. So I"m not really sure where you are coming from on that one. All my thoughts are my own. I did use mickeyrats line about you not voting here in the us. Guilty as charged.
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Fingers crossed
That Biden wins? Agreed.
No, fingers crossed that your taxes are so high that you can't take care of your family.
Since it may be a while before we get to full communism, I'd like to see taxes increased across the board, but definitely on anyone who would be significantly affected by Sanders's policies.
Communism is a failed economic philosophy and is for fucking morons. Excuse my language.
Agreed. Are north korea and Cuba shining examples?
Well Cambodia and the Soviet Block were stunning successes as well. Even Vietnam transferred from a centrally planned to a market economy starting in the 80's and now over 40 million people were lifted out of poverty. People who advocate for communism just have never done any real critical analysis. They read Marx and say "aha!". Yet it fails every time.
Pol pot did an amazing job.
So did Kissinger.
and Stalin..and Lenin...and Mao...
Reagan, Thatcher, Bush x 2
I think you can catch a ship to the east any time. Make it happen. Be a man.
Kim jong un would welcome you with open arms.
What are y’all doing here arguing about the Democratic candidates? Shouldn’t you have left as soon as Trump was elected?
Nope, we disagree with the president, not the economic system, the political system or the Constitution. Just because you lose a game doesn't mean you quit the sport.
This president is the apotheosis of your economic system, political system, and constitution.
I agree. I want him gone, that's why I discuss candidates here. Communism is certainly not the solution for Donald Trump. He would just make himself dictator for life in that system.
You say communism is not the solution when Trump is the direct and logical result of your system?
I'm just not in the mood to argue with your stupid comments. All evidence shows that a mixed/market economy lifts people out of poverty. You can see it over and over. China, Vietnam, everywhere. I just looked at World Bank data, just for you, and it shows that extreme poverty in China was 88% in 1981. It's now less than 1%. What happened in the 80s? They started abandoning the planned economy and invited foreign and private investment. China is a 'communist' in name only today, and really a market economy with statist political system. My God, look at the evidence. You keep saying "capitalism", but no one practices laissez-faire capitalism. It's all mixed economy and it's been a stunning success over the 20th century.
I agree. Don't vote for that liar Bernie sanders. Just ask Elizabeth Warren.
Agreed.
And still you'd proudly vote for fascist Trump over Sanders.
So maybe skip joining in on this discussion.
It just shows what a horrible candidate Sanders is in my eyes. I ll continue to engage in this discussion since I m the only one voting in the election between the two of us.
Why do you so often piggyback on other peoples posts and opinions? Now its Mickeyrats endlessly repeated (and moot) punchline you choose to parrot. Historically it has most often been mrussels.
I don't get that trait.
And say what you want about Sanders being "horrible", you still would pick full blown racist Trump and his 8000+ lies. Which i don't even think the parroted in here would be able to defend. Or at least I hope they can't.
And that's the end of the "engaging" for me, because what is there to gain from someone who would "proudly" choose Trump over a normal human being. You that even are the only one voting in the election between the two of us! Come on Man! (Biden quote)
Yes voting for trump over sanders is a very popular opinion around here that I have piggybacked (insert sarcasm). Second amendment rights is one where I got against the norm. On Iran, mrussell and I went head to head. So I"m not really sure where you are coming from on that one. All my thoughts are my own. I did use mickeyrats line about you not voting here in the us. Guilty as charged.
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Fingers crossed
That Biden wins? Agreed.
No, fingers crossed that your taxes are so high that you can't take care of your family.
Since it may be a while before we get to full communism, I'd like to see taxes increased across the board, but definitely on anyone who would be significantly affected by Sanders's policies.
Communism is a failed economic philosophy and is for fucking morons. Excuse my language.
Agreed. Are north korea and Cuba shining examples?
Well Cambodia and the Soviet Block were stunning successes as well. Even Vietnam transferred from a centrally planned to a market economy starting in the 80's and now over 40 million people were lifted out of poverty. People who advocate for communism just have never done any real critical analysis. They read Marx and say "aha!". Yet it fails every time.
Pol pot did an amazing job.
So did Kissinger.
and Stalin..and Lenin...and Mao...
Reagan, Thatcher, Bush x 2
I think you can catch a ship to the east any time. Make it happen. Be a man.
Kim jong un would welcome you with open arms.
What are y’all doing here arguing about the Democratic candidates? Shouldn’t you have left as soon as Trump was elected?
Nope, we disagree with the president, not the economic system, the political system or the Constitution. Just because you lose a game doesn't mean you quit the sport.
This president is the apotheosis of your economic system, political system, and constitution.
I agree. I want him gone, that's why I discuss candidates here. Communism is certainly not the solution for Donald Trump. He would just make himself dictator for life in that system.
You say communism is not the solution when Trump is the direct and logical result of your system?
I'm just not in the mood to argue with your stupid comments. All evidence shows that a mixed/market economy lifts people out of poverty. You can see it over and over. China, Vietnam, everywhere. I just looked at World Bank data, just for you, and it shows that extreme poverty in China was 88% in 1981. It's now less than 1%. What happened in the 80s? They started abandoning the planned economy and invited foreign and private investment. China is a 'communist' in name only today, and really a market economy with statist political system. My God, look at the evidence. You keep saying "capitalism", but no one practices laissez-faire capitalism. It's all mixed economy and it's been a stunning success over the 20th century.
If this is what success looks like, I’m afraid to see fail
I agree. Don't vote for that liar Bernie sanders. Just ask Elizabeth Warren.
Agreed.
And still you'd proudly vote for fascist Trump over Sanders.
So maybe skip joining in on this discussion.
It just shows what a horrible candidate Sanders is in my eyes. I ll continue to engage in this discussion since I m the only one voting in the election between the two of us.
Why do you so often piggyback on other peoples posts and opinions? Now its Mickeyrats endlessly repeated (and moot) punchline you choose to parrot. Historically it has most often been mrussels.
I don't get that trait.
And say what you want about Sanders being "horrible", you still would pick full blown racist Trump and his 8000+ lies. Which i don't even think the parroted in here would be able to defend. Or at least I hope they can't.
And that's the end of the "engaging" for me, because what is there to gain from someone who would "proudly" choose Trump over a normal human being. You that even are the only one voting in the election between the two of us! Come on Man! (Biden quote)
Yes voting for trump over sanders is a very popular opinion around here that I have piggybacked (insert sarcasm). Second amendment rights is one where I got against the norm. On Iran, mrussell and I went head to head. So I"m not really sure where you are coming from on that one. All my thoughts are my own. I did use mickeyrats line about you not voting here in the us. Guilty as charged.
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Fingers crossed
That Biden wins? Agreed.
No, fingers crossed that your taxes are so high that you can't take care of your family.
Since it may be a while before we get to full communism, I'd like to see taxes increased across the board, but definitely on anyone who would be significantly affected by Sanders's policies.
Communism is a failed economic philosophy and is for fucking morons. Excuse my language.
Agreed. Are north korea and Cuba shining examples?
Well Cambodia and the Soviet Block were stunning successes as well. Even Vietnam transferred from a centrally planned to a market economy starting in the 80's and now over 40 million people were lifted out of poverty. People who advocate for communism just have never done any real critical analysis. They read Marx and say "aha!". Yet it fails every time.
Democratic socialism has provided the far best successes in history. If you want to go down that path.
Greedy capitalism fueled by egocentrism and patriotism (read nationalism) has not.
There's a world of difference between Dem socialism/socialism and communism.
Never said there wasn't.
then I don't understand your point. Your country is also driven by greedy capitalism, since we have the same fundamental economic system. The only difference is that your government provides more social services, but we are the same economy at the end of the day. I'm contrasting it to full blown communism.
Greedy vile dictatorships draining a country for the sole reason of the dictator and the elite isn't "full blown communism". It's greedy vile dictatorships misusing a system.
Just like fascist Trump is misusing a system for the sole reason of himself and the elite.
But I am not interested in having a discussion about communism vs capitalism. I doubt there can be anything out there as tired as discussing that. Maybe people claiming No Code is better than Riot Act. But just maybe.
And I am to my knowledge not allowed to discuss Sweden vs the US if I want to keep my posting privileges - so I am not able to go into the differences and what you are wrong about concerning that. But it's okey because:
INT. DAN'S TRUCK - NIGHT
For the third time, Alice is turning the corner headed towards Debbie's driveway.
ALICE Here we are.
DAN Something's wrong here. It feels like...
EXT. DEBBIE'S HOUSE - NIGHT
Alice is about to pull in, then BAM, SMASH CUT TO:
EXT. STREET CORNER - NIGHT
You guessed it. Dan waits as Alice comes running up.
ALICE AND DAN (simultaneously) C'mon, we have to hurry. I'm driving.
Alice stares at Dan.
ALICE Oh God, I'm still asleep. He's got us going in circles.
Communism may be fine on paper, but history has shown that in practice, it is corrupted into violence and oppression against one's own people. At the end of the day, the leaders of any country will not be peasants. It's just not human nature. So you're right.. 'greedy vile dictators', but that's the nature when you consolidate all economic, military and political power into one small group of people/person.
I agree. Don't vote for that liar Bernie sanders. Just ask Elizabeth Warren.
Agreed.
And still you'd proudly vote for fascist Trump over Sanders.
So maybe skip joining in on this discussion.
It just shows what a horrible candidate Sanders is in my eyes. I ll continue to engage in this discussion since I m the only one voting in the election between the two of us.
Why do you so often piggyback on other peoples posts and opinions? Now its Mickeyrats endlessly repeated (and moot) punchline you choose to parrot. Historically it has most often been mrussels.
I don't get that trait.
And say what you want about Sanders being "horrible", you still would pick full blown racist Trump and his 8000+ lies. Which i don't even think the parroted in here would be able to defend. Or at least I hope they can't.
And that's the end of the "engaging" for me, because what is there to gain from someone who would "proudly" choose Trump over a normal human being. You that even are the only one voting in the election between the two of us! Come on Man! (Biden quote)
Yes voting for trump over sanders is a very popular opinion around here that I have piggybacked (insert sarcasm). Second amendment rights is one where I got against the norm. On Iran, mrussell and I went head to head. So I"m not really sure where you are coming from on that one. All my thoughts are my own. I did use mickeyrats line about you not voting here in the us. Guilty as charged.
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Fingers crossed
That Biden wins? Agreed.
No, fingers crossed that your taxes are so high that you can't take care of your family.
Since it may be a while before we get to full communism, I'd like to see taxes increased across the board, but definitely on anyone who would be significantly affected by Sanders's policies.
Communism is a failed economic philosophy and is for fucking morons. Excuse my language.
Agreed. Are north korea and Cuba shining examples?
Well Cambodia and the Soviet Block were stunning successes as well. Even Vietnam transferred from a centrally planned to a market economy starting in the 80's and now over 40 million people were lifted out of poverty. People who advocate for communism just have never done any real critical analysis. They read Marx and say "aha!". Yet it fails every time.
Pol pot did an amazing job.
So did Kissinger.
and Stalin..and Lenin...and Mao...
Reagan, Thatcher, Bush x 2
I think you can catch a ship to the east any time. Make it happen. Be a man.
Kim jong un would welcome you with open arms.
What are y’all doing here arguing about the Democratic candidates? Shouldn’t you have left as soon as Trump was elected?
Nope, we disagree with the president, not the economic system, the political system or the Constitution. Just because you lose a game doesn't mean you quit the sport.
This president is the apotheosis of your economic system, political system, and constitution.
I agree. I want him gone, that's why I discuss candidates here. Communism is certainly not the solution for Donald Trump. He would just make himself dictator for life in that system.
You say communism is not the solution when Trump is the direct and logical result of your system?
I'm just not in the mood to argue with your stupid comments. All evidence shows that a mixed/market economy lifts people out of poverty. You can see it over and over. China, Vietnam, everywhere. I just looked at World Bank data, just for you, and it shows that extreme poverty in China was 88% in 1981. It's now less than 1%. What happened in the 80s? They started abandoning the planned economy and invited foreign and private investment. China is a 'communist' in name only today, and really a market economy with statist political system. My God, look at the evidence. You keep saying "capitalism", but no one practices laissez-faire capitalism. It's all mixed economy and it's been a stunning success over the 20th century.
And the biggest successes have been countries being strongly Social Democratic. Helping out by ones ability - and getting help by ones need. History has clearly shown this.
BOOM!
Back on track. IOWA. YANG. @cincybearcat will be positively surprised come 2022 when living in a fairer country.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I agree. Don't vote for that liar Bernie sanders. Just ask Elizabeth Warren.
Agreed.
And still you'd proudly vote for fascist Trump over Sanders.
So maybe skip joining in on this discussion.
It just shows what a horrible candidate Sanders is in my eyes. I ll continue to engage in this discussion since I m the only one voting in the election between the two of us.
Why do you so often piggyback on other peoples posts and opinions? Now its Mickeyrats endlessly repeated (and moot) punchline you choose to parrot. Historically it has most often been mrussels.
I don't get that trait.
And say what you want about Sanders being "horrible", you still would pick full blown racist Trump and his 8000+ lies. Which i don't even think the parroted in here would be able to defend. Or at least I hope they can't.
And that's the end of the "engaging" for me, because what is there to gain from someone who would "proudly" choose Trump over a normal human being. You that even are the only one voting in the election between the two of us! Come on Man! (Biden quote)
Yes voting for trump over sanders is a very popular opinion around here that I have piggybacked (insert sarcasm). Second amendment rights is one where I got against the norm. On Iran, mrussell and I went head to head. So I"m not really sure where you are coming from on that one. All my thoughts are my own. I did use mickeyrats line about you not voting here in the us. Guilty as charged.
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Fingers crossed
That Biden wins? Agreed.
No, fingers crossed that your taxes are so high that you can't take care of your family.
Since it may be a while before we get to full communism, I'd like to see taxes increased across the board, but definitely on anyone who would be significantly affected by Sanders's policies.
Communism is a failed economic philosophy and is for fucking morons. Excuse my language.
Agreed. Are north korea and Cuba shining examples?
Well Cambodia and the Soviet Block were stunning successes as well. Even Vietnam transferred from a centrally planned to a market economy starting in the 80's and now over 40 million people were lifted out of poverty. People who advocate for communism just have never done any real critical analysis. They read Marx and say "aha!". Yet it fails every time.
Pol pot did an amazing job.
So did Kissinger.
and Stalin..and Lenin...and Mao...
Reagan, Thatcher, Bush x 2
I think you can catch a ship to the east any time. Make it happen. Be a man.
Kim jong un would welcome you with open arms.
What are y’all doing here arguing about the Democratic candidates? Shouldn’t you have left as soon as Trump was elected?
Nope, we disagree with the president, not the economic system, the political system or the Constitution. Just because you lose a game doesn't mean you quit the sport.
This president is the apotheosis of your economic system, political system, and constitution.
I agree. I want him gone, that's why I discuss candidates here. Communism is certainly not the solution for Donald Trump. He would just make himself dictator for life in that system.
You say communism is not the solution when Trump is the direct and logical result of your system?
I'm just not in the mood to argue with your stupid comments. All evidence shows that a mixed/market economy lifts people out of poverty. You can see it over and over. China, Vietnam, everywhere. I just looked at World Bank data, just for you, and it shows that extreme poverty in China was 88% in 1981. It's now less than 1%. What happened in the 80s? They started abandoning the planned economy and invited foreign and private investment. China is a 'communist' in name only today, and really a market economy with statist political system. My God, look at the evidence. You keep saying "capitalism", but no one practices laissez-faire capitalism. It's all mixed economy and it's been a stunning success over the 20th century.
If this is what success looks like, I’m afraid to see fail
You saw it if you study Chinese economics from post WWII until the 80's. Pretty easy to compare and contrast. Do you think the 19th century was better for the common man? What about the middle ages? Higher standard of living for most people? Face it, we are at the zenith of human existence right now, in terms of standard of living, live expectancy, health, knowledge, technology, etc. We will move forward still, but the market economy enabled much of this growth.
Nothing wrong with adding some cooperatively owned businesses, a flair of syndicalism etc to freshen things up.
Cooperative between what entities?
What do you mean?
You said cooperatively owned businesses. Are you referring to a public/private ownership, such as when the Obama administration bought millions of shares of GM? Or do you mean some sort of VC type government investment (which they do here in the States) or what?
Or do you mean like the Green Bay Packers, who you could argue are somewhat of a cooperative as well, creating a legal and economic structure that basically prevents them from ever leaving.
Nothing wrong with adding some cooperatively owned businesses, a flair of syndicalism etc to freshen things up.
Cooperative between what entities?
What do you mean?
You said cooperatively owned businesses. Are you referring to a public/private ownership, such as when the Obama administration bought millions of shares of GM? Or do you mean some sort of VC type government investment (which they do here in the States) or what?
I mean like the swedish supermarket chain "COOP", owned by its members/costumers:
Or the bank/insurance company "Länsförsäkringar", also owned by its members/customers:
Länsförsäkringar, or literally County Insurance, is a Swedish group of customer owned insurance companies. The group consists of 23 independent companies, one in each of the counties of Sweden (pre 1998 division), that cooperate under a common brand name. Länsförsäkringar Bank, is a bank which was started in the 1990s and is operated by the group.
A consumers' co-operative is an enterprise owned by consumers and managed democratically which aims at fulfilling the needs and aspirations of their members.[1] They operate within the market system, independently of the state, as a form of mutual aid, oriented toward service rather than pecuniary profit.[2] Consumers' cooperatives often take the form of retail outlets owned and operated by their consumers, such as food co-ops.[3] However, there are many types of consumers' cooperatives, operating in areas such as health care, insurance, housing, utilities and personal finance (including credit unions).
Or as another example, kindergardens that are owned/run by the parents.
Parent cooperatives are a form of operation between private and public, for schools, leisure homes and preschools. The opportunity for parents to run schools and day care centers with state or municipal grants became more common in Sweden during the 1980s.
During the 1980s, there was an extensive political debate about whether nurseries could be run in corporation/Stock company form, or only in the form of parent cooperatives
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Calling someone wanting to help people, and actually having ideals and a view of a better future "horrible" (and instead voting for someone who doesn't even touch climate change in times like these) is... yeah...
But anyways. Where do you get this information about not surviving financially with him as president?
When I did the calculator on Sanders page just for health care, my family would pay an additional $6000/year in taxes. Yippeeeeee
Go to hell Bernie...but not just for that.
So your family makes at LEAST 150,000/year. I prefer expropriation over taxes, but in the meantime, yeah, you should pay more.
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Calling someone wanting to help people, and actually having ideals and a view of a better future "horrible" (and instead voting for someone who doesn't even touch climate change in times like these) is... yeah...
But anyways. Where do you get this information about not surviving financially with him as president?
When I did the calculator on Sanders page just for health care, my family would pay an additional $6000/year in taxes. Yippeeeeee
Go to hell Bernie...but not just for that.
So your family makes at LEAST 150,000/year. I prefer expropriation over taxes, but in the meantime, yeah, you should pay more.
And yes I think Sanders is horrible. His policies would cost me a hell of a lot of money to the point where I would actual question whether or not I would be able to pay my current bills and live in my house. I realize you only have to worry about you but I have an entire family to take care of.
Calling someone wanting to help people, and actually having ideals and a view of a better future "horrible" (and instead voting for someone who doesn't even touch climate change in times like these) is... yeah...
But anyways. Where do you get this information about not surviving financially with him as president?
When I did the calculator on Sanders page just for health care, my family would pay an additional $6000/year in taxes. Yippeeeeee
Go to hell Bernie...but not just for that.
So your family makes at LEAST 150,000/year. I prefer expropriation over taxes, but in the meantime, yeah, you should pay more.
I pay plenty. Plenty.
If you'd play "plenty" I say society should be a lot more Berniefied than it is, like the objectively plenty-paying parts of the world. Or you really need to scale back on those military expenses and presidential golf trips.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Nothing wrong with adding some cooperatively owned businesses, a flair of syndicalism etc to freshen things up.
Cooperative between what entities?
What do you mean?
You said cooperatively owned businesses. Are you referring to a public/private ownership, such as when the Obama administration bought millions of shares of GM? Or do you mean some sort of VC type government investment (which they do here in the States) or what?
I mean like the swedish supermarket chain "COOP", owned by its members/costumers:
Or the bank/insurance company "Länsförsäkringar", also owned by its members/customers:
Länsförsäkringar, or literally County Insurance, is a Swedish group of customer owned insurance companies. The group consists of 23 independent companies, one in each of the counties of Sweden (pre 1998 division), that cooperate under a common brand name. Länsförsäkringar Bank, is a bank which was started in the 1990s and is operated by the group.
A consumers' co-operative is an enterprise owned by consumers and managed democratically which aims at fulfilling the needs and aspirations of their members.[1] They operate within the market system, independently of the state, as a form of mutual aid, oriented toward service rather than pecuniary profit.[2] Consumers' cooperatives often take the form of retail outlets owned and operated by their consumers, such as food co-ops.[3] However, there are many types of consumers' cooperatives, operating in areas such as health care, insurance, housing, utilities and personal finance (including credit unions).
Or as another example, kindergardens that are owned/run by the parents.
Parent cooperatives are a form of operation between private and public, for schools, leisure homes and preschools. The opportunity for parents to run schools and day care centers with state or municipal grants became more common in Sweden during the 1980s.
During the 1980s, there was an extensive political debate about whether nurseries could be run in corporation/Stock company form, or only in the form of parent cooperatives
I like those, and it's similar to the GB Packers. There are utility cooperatives today (here's a list, there are close to a hundred in the US it seems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_utility_cooperatives) and also insurance cooperatives. When claims are lower than expected, it is paid back to the members. That's a very rough explanation, but they exist all over the country.
Nothing wrong with adding some cooperatively owned businesses, a flair of syndicalism etc to freshen things up.
Cooperative between what entities?
What do you mean?
You said cooperatively owned businesses. Are you referring to a public/private ownership, such as when the Obama administration bought millions of shares of GM? Or do you mean some sort of VC type government investment (which they do here in the States) or what?
I mean like the swedish supermarket chain "COOP", owned by its members/costumers:
Or the bank/insurance company "Länsförsäkringar", also owned by its members/customers:
Länsförsäkringar, or literally County Insurance, is a Swedish group of customer owned insurance companies. The group consists of 23 independent companies, one in each of the counties of Sweden (pre 1998 division), that cooperate under a common brand name. Länsförsäkringar Bank, is a bank which was started in the 1990s and is operated by the group.
A consumers' co-operative is an enterprise owned by consumers and managed democratically which aims at fulfilling the needs and aspirations of their members.[1] They operate within the market system, independently of the state, as a form of mutual aid, oriented toward service rather than pecuniary profit.[2] Consumers' cooperatives often take the form of retail outlets owned and operated by their consumers, such as food co-ops.[3] However, there are many types of consumers' cooperatives, operating in areas such as health care, insurance, housing, utilities and personal finance (including credit unions).
Or as another example, kindergardens that are owned/run by the parents.
Parent cooperatives are a form of operation between private and public, for schools, leisure homes and preschools. The opportunity for parents to run schools and day care centers with state or municipal grants became more common in Sweden during the 1980s.
During the 1980s, there was an extensive political debate about whether nurseries could be run in corporation/Stock company form, or only in the form of parent cooperatives
I like those, and it's similar to the GB Packers. There are utility cooperatives today (here's a list, there are close to a hundred in the US it seems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_utility_cooperatives) and also insurance cooperatives. When claims are lower than expected, it is paid back to the members. That's a very rough explanation, but they exist all over the country.
Yes. I get money back from Länsföräkringar (mentioned above) every year. And historically the supermarket COOP (mentioned above) has been better than the private moneypiling competitors when it comes to wages, employer terms, they were a lot quicker with bringing in eco- and vegetarian products etc. Because the members could directly affect the business. And the business could be run with other values than "increase profit".
I think it is a neat option for a business structure. One that is in its core more just and aren't all about stockholders and the top getting rich and fat. Not to sound like a Marx-reading college student.
So more of that in my society. And less communism and capitalistic greed.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
150k family income a year isn't exactly rich if you live in an urban area.
This would be true. 150k ain’t shit.
It's a lot more than I make. Haha.
Well you're not married right? I actually think that this is the big difference where Millenials are 'falling behind' in the economic curve. I believe they are marrying later or not marrying at all, in a way that is much different than X's or Boomers. I bought my first house at 28, and I was married. I can assure you that I would have never been able to buy a house if I was single. Marriage and joint income creates the scale that really allows people to accelerate up the economic ladder. While I'm not advocating marrying for economic reasons, there is certainly an extra benefit financially to do so.
150k family income a year isn't exactly rich if you live in an urban area.
This would be true. 150k ain’t shit.
It's a lot more than I make. Haha.
Well you're not married right? I actually think that this is the big difference where Millenials are 'falling behind' in the economic curve. I believe they are marrying later or not marrying at all, in a way that is much different than X's or Boomers. I bought my first house at 28, and I was married. I can assure you that I would have never been able to buy a house if I was single. Marriage and joint income creates the scale that really allows people to accelerate up the economic ladder. While I'm not advocating marrying for economic reasons, there is certainly an extra benefit financially to do so.
Swedes don't marry. We just live together. "Samboförhållande", as in living together but not married.
Samboförhållande are very common in the Nordic countries and in some other European countries. In 2016, more than half of all newborn children had unmarried parents, and in Sweden every year since 1993, more children have been born to unmarried parents than to married parents.
But yeah, obviously sharing rent and all costs related to living makes you financially more free. But you can also end up in hell.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
150k family income a year isn't exactly rich if you live in an urban area.
This would be true. 150k ain’t shit.
It's a lot more than I make. Haha.
Well you're not married right? I actually think that this is the big difference where Millenials are 'falling behind' in the economic curve. I believe they are marrying later or not marrying at all, in a way that is much different than X's or Boomers. I bought my first house at 28, and I was married. I can assure you that I would have never been able to buy a house if I was single. Marriage and joint income creates the scale that really allows people to accelerate up the economic ladder. While I'm not advocating marrying for economic reasons, there is certainly an extra benefit financially to do so.
Swedes don't marry. We just live together. "Samboförhållande", as in living together but not married.
Samboförhållande are very common in the Nordic countries and in some other European countries. In 2016, more than half of all newborn children had unmarried parents, and in Sweden every year since 1993, more children have been born to unmarried parents than to married parents.
But yeah, obviously sharing rent and all costs related to living makes you financially more free. But you can also end up in hell.
Fair enough, but you guys do buy houses together, right? That's more my point, that joint income affords the ability to move up economically, and many Millenials are starting that process later in life, or not at all in the US.
150k family income a year isn't exactly rich if you live in an urban area.
This would be true. 150k ain’t shit.
It's a lot more than I make. Haha.
Well you're not married right? I actually think that this is the big difference where Millenials are 'falling behind' in the economic curve. I believe they are marrying later or not marrying at all, in a way that is much different than X's or Boomers. I bought my first house at 28, and I was married. I can assure you that I would have never been able to buy a house if I was single. Marriage and joint income creates the scale that really allows people to accelerate up the economic ladder. While I'm not advocating marrying for economic reasons, there is certainly an extra benefit financially to do so.
Swedes don't marry. We just live together. "Samboförhållande", as in living together but not married.
Samboförhållande are very common in the Nordic countries and in some other European countries. In 2016, more than half of all newborn children had unmarried parents, and in Sweden every year since 1993, more children have been born to unmarried parents than to married parents.
But yeah, obviously sharing rent and all costs related to living makes you financially more free. But you can also end up in hell.
Fair enough, but you guys do buy houses together, right? That's more my point, that joint income affords the ability to move up economically, and many Millenials are starting that process later in life, or not at all in the US.
Yes. People buy houses and flats.
What do you mean by "move up economically", just in the sense of having more money left after all the bills are paid, or in some other more intricate/specific economic theory-way?
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Comments
www.headstonesband.com
BOOM!
Back on track. IOWA. YANG. @cincybearcat will be positively surprised come 2022 when living in a fairer country.
Or the bank/insurance company "Länsförsäkringar", also owned by its members/customers:
A consumers' co-operative is an enterprise owned by consumers and managed democratically which aims at fulfilling the needs and aspirations of their members.[1] They operate within the market system, independently of the state, as a form of mutual aid, oriented toward service rather than pecuniary profit.[2] Consumers' cooperatives often take the form of retail outlets owned and operated by their consumers, such as food co-ops.[3] However, there are many types of consumers' cooperatives, operating in areas such as health care, insurance, housing, utilities and personal finance (including credit unions).
Or as another example, kindergardens that are owned/run by the parents.
During the 1980s, there was an extensive political debate about whether nurseries could be run in corporation/Stock company form, or only in the form of parent cooperatives
I think it is a neat option for a business structure. One that is in its core more just and aren't all about stockholders and the top getting rich and fat. Not to sound like a Marx-reading college student.
So more of that in my society. And less communism and capitalistic greed.
But yeah, obviously sharing rent and all costs related to living makes you financially more free. But you can also end up in hell.
What do you mean by "move up economically", just in the sense of having more money left after all the bills are paid, or in some other more intricate/specific economic theory-way?