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The Democratic Presidential Debates

With the next Democratic debate upcoming, hopefully we can use this space for respectful discussion focused on the candidate's policies and political party's platforms.

"12 candidates. 1 stage. Live on CNN"
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Comments

  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,197
    edited October 2019
    Jesus they’re still trotting 12 candidates out there? Why not have two debates like the GOP did four years ago? They had Trump and the others that had a chance to win in the main debate, and Santorum and all the people with no chance in an “undercard” debate. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 7,177
    Jesus they’re still trotting 12 candidates out there? Why not have two debates like the GOP did four years ago? They had Trump and the others that had a chance to win in the main debate, and Santorum and all the people with no chance in an “undercard” debate. 
    That's what I'd rather see. Give the top 6 (based on some cumulative score of poll results and $$ raised/ # of donors) the headline debate, and the bottom 6 the under card. The way it is now the candidates with no chance throw grenades at the front runners hoping to get noticed, and hoping something blows up. I'd rather see the top candidates discuss issues. A smaller number of them allows more time for answers and dialog rather than simply soundbites and grenades. 
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 3,894
    edited October 2019
    jeffbr said:
    Jesus they’re still trotting 12 candidates out there? Why not have two debates like the GOP did four years ago? They had Trump and the others that had a chance to win in the main debate, and Santorum and all the people with no chance in an “undercard” debate. 
    That's what I'd rather see. Give the top 6 (based on some cumulative score of poll results and $$ raised/ # of donors) the headline debate, and the bottom 6 the under card. The way it is now the candidates with no chance throw grenades at the front runners hoping to get noticed, and hoping something blows up. I'd rather see the top candidates discuss issues. A smaller number of them allows more time for answers and dialog rather than simply soundbites and grenades. 

    12 on the same night is absurd.

    The DNC just keeps giving reasons for low confidence.

    I hope one of the moderates goes after Warren's M4A, from a general election perspective. I just cant see that policy carrying the swing states and I'd love for Klobuchar to point that out.
  • Dirtie_FrankDirtie_Frank Posts: 1,347
    Do you think with Bernie's health issues it is all but a matter of time before he either withdraws or falls in the polls.  That has to weigh on voters minds.  
    96 Randall's Island II
    98 CAA
    00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
    05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
    06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
    08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
    09 Phillie III
    10 MSG II
    13 Wrigley Field
    16 Phillie II
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,508
    Do you think with Bernie's health issues it is all but a matter of time before he either withdraws or falls in the polls.  That has to weigh on voters minds.  
    I think it should weigh on their minds and I think he should drop out 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 14,928
    Do you think with Bernie's health issues it is all but a matter of time before he either withdraws or falls in the polls.  That has to weigh on voters minds.  
    Yes on both counts. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 24,057
    Place your bets!

    Betting odds

    Warren is the favorite to win the Democratic nomination, according to US-Bookies.com, which owns https://bet-nj.com and aggregates data from major bookmakers.

    The latest odds:

    1. Warren, 4 to 5

    2. Biden, 7 to 2

    3. Buttigieg, 12 to 1

    4. Sanders, 14 to 1

    5. Harris, 16 to 1

    5. Yang, 16 to 1

    7. Booker, 66 to 1

    7. O’Rourke, 66 to 1

    9. Klobuchar, 80 to 1

    9. Gabbard, 80 to 1

    11. Castro, 100 to 1

    11. Steyer, 100 to 1

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 19,286
    Executive power survey. all candidtates are represented here......

    Presidential Power Must Be Curbed After Trump, 2020 Candidates Say https://nyti.ms/2ULzhcI

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,919
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 32,756
    Too bad Buttigieg isn't doing better.  I'm good with Warren.  I think she would be a tiny bit better than Trump (reverse exaggeration, lol!)
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 3,894
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,771
    mickeyrat said:
    Executive power survey. all candidtates are represented here......

    Presidential Power Must Be Curbed After Trump, 2020 Candidates Say https://nyti.ms/2ULzhcI

    must be curbed until a Democrat wins
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,919
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,258
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,919
    edited March 16
    benjs said:
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    I agree with your opinion of her, I disagree Trump had his way with Biden.
    Plans, plans, plans! Life is what happens when youre making plans. 
    I don’t think America will elect a woman.
    Medicare for all is great for dem primary, but I’ve talked with a few lifelong democrats, who voted Hillary, and they made it very clear that they won’t vote for her because of it.
    Post edited by Hi! on
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,508
    benjs said:
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    So ... Trump had his way with Biden.  But you don't think if Warren gets the nomination that Trump will do anything?  ;)

    It's not a reason to say she has no shot...but to say she is a beacon of stability and Joe is not due to trumps attacks is being a little short-sighted.  The attacks will come.  And some will be right on.  And others will be sensationalist crap....but they will hurt.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,919
    edited October 2019
    I wonder if Trump will use the cheek bone video in ads
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,258
    benjs said:
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    So ... Trump had his way with Biden.  But you don't think if Warren gets the nomination that Trump will do anything?  ;)

    It's not a reason to say she has no shot...but to say she is a beacon of stability and Joe is not due to trumps attacks is being a little short-sighted.  The attacks will come.  And some will be right on.  And others will be sensationalist crap....but they will hurt.
    Oh, I agree they'll come. They'll come regardless of who the nominee is, because going low is the only game Trump knows how to play. I think she's got the poise and tact to fight them, and I don't think Biden has shown that agility.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,919
    I will say I was a little disappointed in Bidens response to the Ukraine situation. One of the main reasons I liked Biden was I thought he would fight back and be a good counter puncher.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 3,894
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    So ... Trump had his way with Biden.  But you don't think if Warren gets the nomination that Trump will do anything?  ;)

    It's not a reason to say she has no shot...but to say she is a beacon of stability and Joe is not due to trumps attacks is being a little short-sighted.  The attacks will come.  And some will be right on.  And others will be sensationalist crap....but they will hurt.
    Oh, I agree they'll come. They'll come regardless of who the nominee is, because going low is the only game Trump knows how to play. I think she's got the poise and tact to fight them, and I don't think Biden has shown that agility.

    But when they accuse the dem of being a socialist, that attack will stick to Warren because she supports single payer. Forcing 100 million off their insurance will not get 270 electoral votes, even if trump is weakened by Ukraine and Syria 

    Warren's response to this is weak. A moderate can deny the socialist attack, she cant. She is also significantly untested. The only serious attack she had to handle was her dna test and that did not work out  for her.

    Someone needs to push back hard on her at the debate. Be rude because we know trump will be rude. Bernie took it easy on Hillary last time (except for the Wall St $ issue) and that eventually hurt the dems against trump as hillary was virtually untested.

    That's my biggest fear about Warren currently. 


  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,258
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    So ... Trump had his way with Biden.  But you don't think if Warren gets the nomination that Trump will do anything?  ;)

    It's not a reason to say she has no shot...but to say she is a beacon of stability and Joe is not due to trumps attacks is being a little short-sighted.  The attacks will come.  And some will be right on.  And others will be sensationalist crap....but they will hurt.
    Oh, I agree they'll come. They'll come regardless of who the nominee is, because going low is the only game Trump knows how to play. I think she's got the poise and tact to fight them, and I don't think Biden has shown that agility.

    But when they accuse the dem of being a socialist, that attack will stick to Warren because she supports single payer. Forcing 100 million off their insurance will not get 270 electoral votes, even if trump is weakened by Ukraine and Syria 

    Warren's response to this is weak. A moderate can deny the socialist attack, she cant. She is also significantly untested. The only serious attack she had to handle was her dna test and that did not work out  for her.

    Someone needs to push back hard on her at the debate. Be rude because we know trump will be rude. Bernie took it easy on Hillary last time (except for the Wall St $ issue) and that eventually hurt the dems against trump as hillary was virtually untested.

    That's my biggest fear about Warren currently. 


    I agree on the socialism topic - she's going to have to find the way to sell that or adapt. 

    On "untested", look at the White House today. 

    On pushback, I fully agree. Her ability to come out of a rough debate needs to be exposed so that people can become more comfortable with the idea that she could take Trump in a debate setting. Never having been attacked, people will likely, and unfortunately, stick with traditional gender bias and assume she'll be weak. 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 3,894
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    So ... Trump had his way with Biden.  But you don't think if Warren gets the nomination that Trump will do anything?  ;)

    It's not a reason to say she has no shot...but to say she is a beacon of stability and Joe is not due to trumps attacks is being a little short-sighted.  The attacks will come.  And some will be right on.  And others will be sensationalist crap....but they will hurt.
    Oh, I agree they'll come. They'll come regardless of who the nominee is, because going low is the only game Trump knows how to play. I think she's got the poise and tact to fight them, and I don't think Biden has shown that agility.

    But when they accuse the dem of being a socialist, that attack will stick to Warren because she supports single payer. Forcing 100 million off their insurance will not get 270 electoral votes, even if trump is weakened by Ukraine and Syria 

    Warren's response to this is weak. A moderate can deny the socialist attack, she cant. She is also significantly untested. The only serious attack she had to handle was her dna test and that did not work out  for her.

    Someone needs to push back hard on her at the debate. Be rude because we know trump will be rude. Bernie took it easy on Hillary last time (except for the Wall St $ issue) and that eventually hurt the dems against trump as hillary was virtually untested.

    That's my biggest fear about Warren currently. 


    I agree on the socialism topic - she's going to have to find the way to sell that or adapt. 

    On "untested", look at the White House today. 

    On pushback, I fully agree. Her ability to come out of a rough debate needs to be exposed so that people can become more comfortable with the idea that she could take Trump in a debate setting. Never having been attacked, people will likely, and unfortunately, stick with traditional gender bias and assume she'll be weak. 


    The only test I've seen her endure was the dna test. She picked the battle field on that on and got humiliated by trump. 

    IMO her gender helped her so far against the dems. No one is willing to spill blood against her. So far.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 14,928
    Warren beat a popular incumbent in Scott Brown to reach the Senate. Yes, a Democrat in Massachusetts should win that race, but it's incorrect to think she faced no challenge. 

    I personally think she would kick Trump's ass. Both in the debates and in November. Anyone waffling between Trump and Warren, after all this, is deep down a likely Trump voter. Dems don't win by trying to court them. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 3,894
    JimmyV said:
    Warren beat a popular incumbent in Scott Brown to reach the Senate. Yes, a Democrat in Massachusetts should win that race, but it's incorrect to think she faced no challenge. 

    I personally think she would kick Trump's ass. Both in the debates and in November. Anyone waffling between Trump and Warren, after all this, is deep down a likely Trump voter. Dems don't win by trying to court them. 

    I think 2016 proved this wrong. The blue states will support Warren but we need the swing states. Iowa is a perfect example. They vote democrat sometimes, obama twice, but Hillary lost by a solid margin and I dont see M4A rallying Democrats  to victory there.
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,919
    JimmyV said:
    Warren beat a popular incumbent in Scott Brown to reach the Senate. Yes, a Democrat in Massachusetts should win that race, but it's incorrect to think she faced no challenge. 

    I personally think she would kick Trump's ass. Both in the debates and in November. Anyone waffling between Trump and Warren, after all this, is deep down a likely Trump voter. Dems don't win by trying to court them. 
    I’ve been thinking about this lately and I may be changing my mind in that it may be more important for dems to drive their base and voters to the polls than it is for dems to try and convince a waffler to the polls. Problem is, Warren is risking pushing away blue dogs, older dem voters, the “blue wall” away with MFA. IDK .
    The fact of the matter is, we gonna have to get blacks to come out and vote like they did for Obama. 
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 14,928
    JimmyV said:
    Warren beat a popular incumbent in Scott Brown to reach the Senate. Yes, a Democrat in Massachusetts should win that race, but it's incorrect to think she faced no challenge. 

    I personally think she would kick Trump's ass. Both in the debates and in November. Anyone waffling between Trump and Warren, after all this, is deep down a likely Trump voter. Dems don't win by trying to court them. 

    I think 2016 proved this wrong. The blue states will support Warren but we need the swing states. Iowa is a perfect example. They vote democrat sometimes, obama twice, but Hillary lost by a solid margin and I dont see M4A rallying Democrats  to victory there.
    I think 2016 proved it true. Clinton didn't lose because she strayed too far left. Her campaign fully expected Republican women to defect to her in droves. It was a catastrophic mistake. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 19,286
    edited October 2019
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    So ... Trump had his way with Biden.  But you don't think if Warren gets the nomination that Trump will do anything?  ;)

    It's not a reason to say she has no shot...but to say she is a beacon of stability and Joe is not due to trumps attacks is being a little short-sighted.  The attacks will come.  And some will be right on.  And others will be sensationalist crap....but they will hurt.
    Oh, I agree they'll come. They'll come regardless of who the nominee is, because going low is the only game Trump knows how to play. I think she's got the poise and tact to fight them, and I don't think Biden has shown that agility.

    But when they accuse the dem of being a socialist, that attack will stick to Warren because she supports single payer. Forcing 100 million off their insurance will not get 270 electoral votes, even if trump is weakened by Ukraine and Syria 

    Warren's response to this is weak. A moderate can deny the socialist attack, she cant. She is also significantly untested. The only serious attack she had to handle was her dna test and that did not work out  for her.

    Someone needs to push back hard on her at the debate. Be rude because we know trump will be rude. Bernie took it easy on Hillary last time (except for the Wall St $ issue) and that eventually hurt the dems against trump as hillary was virtually untested.

    That's my biggest fear about Warren currently. 


    I agree on the socialism topic - she's going to have to find the way to sell that or adapt. 

    On "untested", look at the White House today. 

    On pushback, I fully agree. Her ability to come out of a rough debate needs to be exposed so that people can become more comfortable with the idea that she could take Trump in a debate setting. Never having been attacked, people will likely, and unfortunately, stick with traditional gender bias and assume she'll be weak. 


    The only test I've seen her endure was the dna test. She picked the battle field on that on and got humiliated by trump. 

    IMO her gender helped her so far against the dems. No one is willing to spill blood against her. So far.
      humiliated by trump is the litmus test?

    she is still standing and at or near the front of the dem field. so how has that humiliation hurt her exactly?
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,258
    JimmyV said:
    Warren beat a popular incumbent in Scott Brown to reach the Senate. Yes, a Democrat in Massachusetts should win that race, but it's incorrect to think she faced no challenge. 

    I personally think she would kick Trump's ass. Both in the debates and in November. Anyone waffling between Trump and Warren, after all this, is deep down a likely Trump voter. Dems don't win by trying to court them. 
    I'm not 100% in agreement about your second paragraph. I think pull factors such as the optics on single-payer, to Lerxst's point, are absolutely relevant in the eyes and minds of voters. I also personally can't stand the "if you're not sure at this point, you're a Trump supporter", and think it's incredibly counter-productive. The message is clearly stated by Democrats as a stroke against integrity/intelligence, and that's not conducive to winning a person over. The tactics used by most to influencing people to come around aren't shown to be effective, but we seem to try the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,919
    Moments away?
    I don’t consider an hour to be “moments away”
    as it relates to debate start time.
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,258
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    benjs said:
    Hi! said:
    Hi! said:
    Still hoping for a dark horse to break through. Steyer, Bennet, Klobachar, that dude from Montana.

    I like Steyer and Klobuchar. Not sure either can go toe to toe with the Bully in Chief. At least they dont want insurance mandates for the entire country. That's a sure fire way to lose to trump (ahem Liz, time to wake up).
    No doubt. Warren will loose the general in my opinion.
    I used to think that, but her focus is damn impressive, she's incredibly smart, and I think trying to mitigate her progressivism by asserting how she knows of the difficulties but has plans to make it happen, has been a good strategy for her. The polls reflect that. She's also a beacon of stability, which Biden no longer is now that Trump had his way with him.
    So ... Trump had his way with Biden.  But you don't think if Warren gets the nomination that Trump will do anything?  ;)

    It's not a reason to say she has no shot...but to say she is a beacon of stability and Joe is not due to trumps attacks is being a little short-sighted.  The attacks will come.  And some will be right on.  And others will be sensationalist crap....but they will hurt.
    Oh, I agree they'll come. They'll come regardless of who the nominee is, because going low is the only game Trump knows how to play. I think she's got the poise and tact to fight them, and I don't think Biden has shown that agility.

    But when they accuse the dem of being a socialist, that attack will stick to Warren because she supports single payer. Forcing 100 million off their insurance will not get 270 electoral votes, even if trump is weakened by Ukraine and Syria 

    Warren's response to this is weak. A moderate can deny the socialist attack, she cant. She is also significantly untested. The only serious attack she had to handle was her dna test and that did not work out  for her.

    Someone needs to push back hard on her at the debate. Be rude because we know trump will be rude. Bernie took it easy on Hillary last time (except for the Wall St $ issue) and that eventually hurt the dems against trump as hillary was virtually untested.

    That's my biggest fear about Warren currently. 


    I agree on the socialism topic - she's going to have to find the way to sell that or adapt. 

    On "untested", look at the White House today. 

    On pushback, I fully agree. Her ability to come out of a rough debate needs to be exposed so that people can become more comfortable with the idea that she could take Trump in a debate setting. Never having been attacked, people will likely, and unfortunately, stick with traditional gender bias and assume she'll be weak. 


    The only test I've seen her endure was the dna test. She picked the battle field on that on and got humiliated by trump. 

    IMO her gender helped her so far against the dems. No one is willing to spill blood against her. So far.
    How's that "humiliation" been affecting her? She's been trending upwards on a continuous basis for ages now. If anything, that should yield more confidence (not less) if she's able to do this in spite of that attack.

    Her online response is also a sign of strong character in my opinion - https://elizabethwarren.com/pocahontas

    On your next point - in this race, gender isn't tracking closely with poll performance either, so that's not only a baseless statement, it's false. Gender may be tracking closely against "attacks on a candidate", but that doesn't matter, polls do.

    Will people be worried if they don't get to see her under pressure? Certainly. But if the "humiliation" is all we have to go off of, it's a positive sign, and if the way her campaign has been running is any indication, she's probably well aware of these challenges and waiting for the right time to strike.
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    EV
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