The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,424
    No one likes Bernie 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,624
    Not one county in FL, just like Michigan.  He even lost counties he won in 16, when he lost at about the same clip.  There really is no argument for Bernie as the message isn't resonating.  I respect the guy, for what he is.  But it's time to consolidate the party and move towards November.  There's no argument for his candidacy.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,475
    Arizona called for Biden....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,880
    mrussel1 said:
    Not one county in FL, just like Michigan.  He even lost counties he won in 16, when he lost at about the same clip.  There really is no argument for Bernie as the message isn't resonating.  I respect the guy, for what he is.  But it's time to consolidate the party and move towards November.  There's no argument for his candidacy.
    Yeah this was the end, but it was a good run going back to 2015. I enjoyed his “revolution” even if I didn’t agree with it all. Endorse Biden, get him to commit to some of your more reasonable policies, and campaign for him. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,492
    Is the Bernie surge happening?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,475
    edited March 2020
    Is the Bernie surge happening?
    yes it is. he went from winning no counties in florida to barely winning just one in illinois to barely winning 2 in arizona..... bernie is on the move......
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,424
    Is the Bernie surge happening?
    So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Is the Bernie surge happening?
    So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.
    I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
    We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
    On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
    I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Sad to see Bernie doing so poorly.
    Personally, I'm fine with anybody over Trump, but Bernie is the only candidate that is willing to fix the healthcare disaster we have in this country.

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,475
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,880
    dignin said:
    This is where I'd normally say something like "This is tantamount to the Detroit Tigers assessing their World Series chances," but it's uncertain that any team will have a chance at the World Series this year. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,624
    dignin said:
    "in the coming weeks"... I guess because the next primary is, at best, three weeks away.  So he has time to do some fundraising or something?  I don't know what he expects to change other than sickness befalling Joe.  If I were the Biden campaign I would not participate in the next debate and completely rotate my messaging to the general election.  Speak to Bernie's supporters, but ignore Bernie.  Biden has some serious organizational catch up to do against Trump.  No time to lose. 
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,420
    dignin said:
    Warren said the same thing the day before call it quits! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mickeyrat said:
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
    Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
    thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,475
    static111 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
    Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
    thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.
    Bernie was helped by a wide field.

    popular vote is a convenientl talking point. look at the numbers by county.

    I would argue voters have rejectedhim personally not his proposals
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,880
    edited March 2020
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
    Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
    thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.
    Bernie was helped by a wide field.

    popular vote is a convenientl talking point. look at the numbers by county.

    I would argue voters have rejectedhim personally not his proposals
    I've actually gotten the opposite vibe: that people feel he's a good guy and genuinely interested in helping the poor and the marginalized, but that his proposals to do it are so outlandish (with little explanation as to how they'll be accomplished) that he'd never win a general election. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
    Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
    thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.
    Bernie was helped by a wide field.

    popular vote is a convenientl talking point. look at the numbers by county.

    I would argue voters have rejectedhim personally not his proposals
    I've actually gotten the opposite vibe: that people feel he's a good guy and genuinely interested in helping the poor and the marginalized, but that his proposals to do it are so outlandish (with little explanation as to how they'll be accomplished) that he'd never win a general election. 
    This is the overall vibe I get as well.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,624
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
    Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
    thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.
    Bernie was helped by a wide field.

    popular vote is a convenientl talking point. look at the numbers by county.

    I would argue voters have rejectedhim personally not his proposals
    I've actually gotten the opposite vibe: that people feel he's a good guy and genuinely interested in helping the poor and the marginalized, but that his proposals to do it are so outlandish (with little explanation as to how they'll be accomplished) that he'd never win a general election. 
    I think it's a bit of both:
    1. Bernie has not made inroads with the black community or women.  That's on him.
    2. White males have moved away from him, that tells you that 2016 was anti-Hillary for many
    3. His voters are passionate and hard core.  I think a lot of people are ambivalent about him, although respect his passion.  That's where I am.  But I don't like ALL of his policies either. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,475
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
    Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
    thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.
    Bernie was helped by a wide field.

    popular vote is a convenientl talking point. look at the numbers by county.

    I would argue voters have rejectedhim personally not his proposals
    I've actually gotten the opposite vibe: that people feel he's a good guy and genuinely interested in helping the poor and the marginalized, but that his proposals to do it are so outlandish (with little explanation as to how they'll be accomplished) that he'd never win a general election. 
    I think it's a bit of both:
    1. Bernie has not made inroads with the black community or women.  That's on him.
    2. White males have moved away from him, that tells you that 2016 was anti-Hillary for many
    3. His voters are passionate and hard core.  I think a lot of people are ambivalent about him, although respect his passion.  That's where I am.  But I don't like ALL of his policies either. 
    4. HE IS NOT A DEMOCRAT
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
    Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
    thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.
    Bernie was helped by a wide field.

    popular vote is a convenientl talking point. look at the numbers by county.

    I would argue voters have rejectedhim personally not his proposals
    I've actually gotten the opposite vibe: that people feel he's a good guy and genuinely interested in helping the poor and the marginalized, but that his proposals to do it are so outlandish (with little explanation as to how they'll be accomplished) that he'd never win a general election. 
    I think it's a bit of both:
    1. Bernie has not made inroads with the black community or women.  That's on him.
    2. White males have moved away from him, that tells you that 2016 was anti-Hillary for many
    3. His voters are passionate and hard core.  I think a lot of people are ambivalent about him, although respect his passion.  That's where I am.  But I don't like ALL of his policies either. 
    I’m a pretty hardcore supporter and I don’t like all of his policies either.  To me it has really always been the view that politics is about compromise and if you can get some of the really radical stuff into the discussion that policy can change.  There are some drastic long term changes that need to be made for the health of our planet and society. Granted a cranky old man that has consistently stood his ground with an all or none attitude is not the face of compromise for most.  At the very least the Sanders movement has hopefully shown the Dems that it is safe to move to the left of moderate Republicans. Which is a lesson I think Democrat’s have needed to learn for quite a while.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,424
    rgambs said:
    Is the Bernie surge happening?
    So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.
    I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
    We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
    On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
    I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?
    Hahaha so because I’m against how Bernie does things and how he goes about things I am against all social safety nets? Sounds like a bernie bro.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    rgambs said:
    Is the Bernie surge happening?
    So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.
    I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
    We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
    On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
    I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?
    Hahaha so because I’m against how Bernie does things and how he goes about things I am against all social safety nets? Sounds like a bernie bro.
    Not what I said at all.  Although, to be honest, your tone of derision toward Bernie's proposals on these boards is very conservative, and far less moderate than you position it.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,424
    rgambs said:
    rgambs said:
    Is the Bernie surge happening?
    So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.
    I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
    We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
    On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
    I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?
    Hahaha so because I’m against how Bernie does things and how he goes about things I am against all social safety nets? Sounds like a bernie bro.
    Not what I said at all.  Although, to be honest, your tone of derision toward Bernie's proposals on these boards is very conservative, and far less moderate than you position it.
    Cool.  I'm sorry you lost your candidate (truly am).  But I believe Bernie is not what we need.  I believe several of his positions are fine and what we need, but others are terrible. 

    He is certainly be spot on, or very close to it, with the medical world we live in.  I'm ok with any plan that ensures coverage for all, and I'm willing to do whatever needed to pay for that.  I'll admit I was much slower than Bernie to get there.  I do feel that Obamacare with a public option is a great idea for today.  And if public option is better, people will head that way.  We shall see.  I'm basically for whatever Biden plan is since he has to beat trump.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,492

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,624

    Now THAT'S a good one!
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,614
    rgambs said:
    rgambs said:
    Is the Bernie surge happening?
    So happy that people are rejecting Bernie.  Probably should be in the thread about what give us hope.
    I get that not everyone likes Sanders, but your smug, self-congratulatory tone rings pretty empty during a global crisis that has exposed our glaring national weaknesses.
    We have essentially no public health support system or emergency plan, we have a weakened social safety net, and we have millions of uninsured and under insured just waiting for disaster to strike.  All of those are concerns ignored by your candidates and championed by the one you so disdain.
    On top of that, all the measures that are being taken and considered to alleviate the burden of this crisis fall under the dreaded "socialism" umbrella.
    I wonder, will you reject the check if the government sends it?  Or will you cash it an pretend it doesn't conflict with the belief system you've vocalized so strongly?
    Hahaha so because I’m against how Bernie does things and how he goes about things I am against all social safety nets? Sounds like a bernie bro.
    Not what I said at all.  Although, to be honest, your tone of derision toward Bernie's proposals on these boards is very conservative, and far less moderate than you position it.
    Cool.  I'm sorry you lost your candidate (truly am).  But I believe Bernie is not what we need.  I believe several of his positions are fine and what we need, but others are terrible. 

    He is certainly be spot on, or very close to it, with the medical world we live in.  I'm ok with any plan that ensures coverage for all, and I'm willing to do whatever needed to pay for that.  I'll admit I was much slower than Bernie to get there.  I do feel that Obamacare with a public option is a great idea for today.  And if public option is better, people will head that way.  We shall see.  I'm basically for whatever Biden plan is since he has to beat trump.

    Stop, you left wing extremist!
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,614
    static111 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    democracy in action  actual democratic voters rejecting the carpetbagger not a democrat looking to hijack their party......
    Biden primary popular votes 9.9 million
    Sanders primary popular votes 7.5 million
    thats hardly rejecting Sanders lol. Looks more like people are opting for the safe candidate. Either way I am voting against Trump. I think the actual numbers prove that Joe really needs to pick up a lot of Bernies policies that can be palatable to the rest of the play it safers.  To reject Sanders’ movement  and the 7+million voters as a fluke with no traction that America is “rejecting” is pretty dangerous if you really want to stop Trump. Biden is gonna need all the votes he can get not just the 9.9 million democratic primary votes.   You don’t beat Trump with only the support of Democratic Party loyalists.

    Its actually 9.99 million votes and the 2.5 million difference (one third of sanders total vote count) would be much greater if Ohio voted and there was no virus holding down votes in IL.

    Democrats screamed and yelled because Hillary "won" by 2.8 million votes amongst the entire country, while biden has roughly the same lead only accounting for roughly half of one party's primary vote.

    This was a complete rejection of Sanders candidacy and actually stripped him of his perceived 2016 strength.

    Curious, how big was trump's lead at this point in 2016? Did Rubio's voters get a big say in the platform?
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,614
    Trump won Super Tuesday over Cruz by 35 delegates and the vote was 34% to 29%. Seems very close in comparison 

    Yet trumps perceived strength from that day expanded his power over voters in the following races. He never looked back and never had to grant concessions.

    A couple weeks after Super Tuesday trump essentially declared himself nominee by announcing he was done with debates and the remaing debates never happened. 

    While biden has a much more decisive win and is being leveraged by the loser.

    This is why Democrats lose elections.
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    Trump won Super Tuesday over Cruz by 35 delegates and the vote was 34% to 29%. Seems very close in comparison 

    Yet trumps perceived strength from that day expanded his power over voters in the following races. He never looked back and never had to grant concessions.

    A couple weeks after Super Tuesday trump essentially declared himself nominee by announcing he was done with debates and the remaing debates never happened. 

    While biden has a much more decisive win and is being leveraged by the loser.

    This is why Democrats lose elections.
    So Democrats should be more like Republicans? check. It’s looking more and more like election 2016 out there.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
This discussion has been closed.