Hey how about those 2 missing Ten Club singles!

jeffbr

pjl44 said:

jeffbr said:

pjl44 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

weird, if someone says they are planning to do something for me because they sometimes suck at our relationship, I take that as a commitment to the change. but ok. 

"planning" to do something and "are" doing something are very different. Plans fall through all the time. 

again, this is setting the bar really really low for the club/band. to send out a letter of apology to the club saying they can expect something as an apology and to not only not follow through, but try to erase it from memory, is really weak. 

I for one think they should be held to a higher standard than that. 

And again, I am just pointing out a bad example you are using. The Big Bold and Free was not something promised, or owed, or paid for. They made the mistake of saying they were working on something before it was finalized and the plans fell through. You did not pay for it, it did not come out of your membership. But you act like it did.

The singles are paid for and owed. 

Ok then, tell your spouse you are planning to do something nice for them and then never do it. Then report back how they feel about that....

If people see their relationship with any band or fan club as being at all similar to a spouse, I think we're touching on the root of the problem 

True, but we hear about "jamily" and a sense of belonging to a tribe often enough. For me, and most of the others who seem to want to hold the 10c/Band to their obligations, it clearly isn't about family, it is about a company/consumer relationship, a business transaction, and an obligation. The folks rushing to the defense of the 10c/band offer no real defense and are the ones who act like they are the protectors of 10c's or the band's reputation. But the defense they offer is to belittle the consumer complaints or dismiss them as irrelevant. It is the defenders who seem to have their relationship with the band confused. I'm very clear on my relationship. I'm simply a member of a fan club who conducted a business transaction and have not received goods for which I paid.

I'm fully on board with the business transaction end, but I go back to the egg roll analogy

I'm good with that. Once they announced that egg rolls were no longer going to be provided, I downgraded from Analog to Digital, since the only reason for Analog for me was the promise of egg rolls. But they still owe me those egg rolls I paid for.

pjl44

cincybearcat said:

pjl44 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

weird, if someone says they are planning to do something for me because they sometimes suck at our relationship, I take that as a commitment to the change. but ok. 

"planning" to do something and "are" doing something are very different. Plans fall through all the time. 

again, this is setting the bar really really low for the club/band. to send out a letter of apology to the club saying they can expect something as an apology and to not only not follow through, but try to erase it from memory, is really weak. 

I for one think they should be held to a higher standard than that. 

And again, I am just pointing out a bad example you are using. The Big Bold and Free was not something promised, or owed, or paid for. They made the mistake of saying they were working on something before it was finalized and the plans fell through. You did not pay for it, it did not come out of your membership. But you act like it did.

The singles are paid for and owed. 

Ok then, tell your spouse you are planning to do something nice for them and then never do it. Then report back how they feel about that....

If people see their relationship with any band or fan club as being at all similar to a spouse, I think we're touching on the root of the problem 

Nevermind

Yeah, good lord. I was about to respond to whatever that was with this:

PB11041

cincybearcat

pjl44 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjl44 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

weird, if someone says they are planning to do something for me because they sometimes suck at our relationship, I take that as a commitment to the change. but ok. 

"planning" to do something and "are" doing something are very different. Plans fall through all the time. 

again, this is setting the bar really really low for the club/band. to send out a letter of apology to the club saying they can expect something as an apology and to not only not follow through, but try to erase it from memory, is really weak. 

I for one think they should be held to a higher standard than that. 

And again, I am just pointing out a bad example you are using. The Big Bold and Free was not something promised, or owed, or paid for. They made the mistake of saying they were working on something before it was finalized and the plans fell through. You did not pay for it, it did not come out of your membership. But you act like it did.

The singles are paid for and owed. 

Ok then, tell your spouse you are planning to do something nice for them and then never do it. Then report back how they feel about that....

If people see their relationship with any band or fan club as being at all similar to a spouse, I think we're touching on the root of the problem 

Nevermind

Yeah, good lord. I was about to respond to whatever that was with this:

And there ya did anyhow. Love discussing stuff with GIF poster and meme makers ... yawn.

pjsteelerfan

cincybearcat said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

weird, if someone says they are planning to do something for me because they sometimes suck at our relationship, I take that as a commitment to the change. but ok. 

"planning" to do something and "are" doing something are very different. Plans fall through all the time. 

again, this is setting the bar really really low for the club/band. to send out a letter of apology to the club saying they can expect something as an apology and to not only not follow through, but try to erase it from memory, is really weak. 

I for one think they should be held to a higher standard than that. 

And again, I am just pointing out a bad example you are using. The Big Bold and Free was not something promised, or owed, or paid for. They made the mistake of saying they were working on something before it was finalized and the plans fell through. You did not pay for it, it did not come out of your membership. But you act like it did.

The singles are paid for and owed. 

i wasn't using it as an example of something paid for or owed. I wasn't even a member of this club when it happened. it was an rebut of the claim "the club always makes things right", which in this case, they didn't. 

So you are saying the band owes us a free concert that they in the past 100% promised and guaranteed the entire ten club that never happened. 

nope. not one bit. 

Then what was this Big Bold and Free thing that was 100% promised, guaranteed, set in stone was going to happen, that they failed to deliver on?

i'm not sure where this communication breakdown is happening, but I'll try to break this down:

original claim:
the club always does right by us fans

counter claim:
no, they don't

the evidence presented by claimant:

none

the evidence presented by counter-claimant:

letter from fan club, dated Aug 1/05, stating specifically that they don't always do right by us (fans) (which, in itself, simply by that admission is enough to stop this argument), but it goes on to state, that, to make things right, we are planning something "big bold beautiful and free" 

this plan never came to fruition. 

now, let's give a parallel hypothetical:

my wife and I aren't getting along. I've been treating her poorly the last little while. I write her a letter saying "I'm planning something big for you to try to smooth things over between us". 

I don't do anything. maybe my plan fell through. maybe I just didn't care. no idea the reason.  And when she asks about it, I claim I never said anything of the sort and shut down any and all reference to it for a decade. 

Do I "owe" her anything? Nope. But do I "always do right by her"?

also nope. 

conclusion: original claim was false. 

decision goes to counter claimant. 

How do you figure? Your response makes no sense.

These are just records but the lengths some go to in order to defend the band/club from failing to fulfill an obligation for YEARS, is pretty crazy. I hope you all get that gold star by your name on the 10c rolls and that free concert you apparently think you are getting invited to for your unwavering trumpish support.

What? Please point out where exactly I defended the 10c in their delay. I specifically stated the records are owed.  But using big bold and free, something NEVER promised, never guaranteed, and a not paid for by members out of our dues is not a good example. Planning something and saying you are 100% doing something are different. We are not owed something if they are planning something in 2021 and it does not happen. Or the Euro tour that fell apart two years ago. Those are not things the band and 10c failed to deliver on. 

10c owes us a for $40;  a single, a deep, a membership gift, a MP3, a chance a tickets before the sale (sometimes and not guaranteed), access to member only items (sometimes and not guaranteed), etc. Not things the band is planning to do or not do.

And like I said multiple times, the 10c owes us the 2 singles and deeps. 

Tim Simmons

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

Or people don't care because its just an (estimated) $30, and given what most of us spend on the band, its nbd.  Also 10c has never not made things right. But keep telling us how we're being taken advantage of.

I'm not arguing with you all about anything else, just commenting on the bolded part: that is simply not true. 

The messed up Lightning Bolt pressing?
The Vaults with non-fill? 
The shipping damage done to vault 3 on their way to Europe



Again, people may no like the speed at which the 10c does things, or how little they may communicate, but they aren't a bunch of grifters.

Tim Simmons

HughFreakingDillon said:

jeffbr said:

pjsteelerfan said:

jeffbr said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JimmyV said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Tim Simmons said:

Or people don't care because its just an (estimated) $30, and given what most of us spend on the band, its nbd.  Also 10c has never not made things right. But keep telling us how we're being taken advantage of.

I'm not arguing with you all about anything else, just commenting on the bolded part: that is simply not true. 

Big bold and not true.

that's the first one that came to mind

And that is why I like threads like this. It at least keeps the issue current. If there were no threads about the missing singles, the missing singles would go the way of the big, bold and free. They would simply disappear and not be talked about by 10c or the band. They obviously need their feet held to the fire since they have demonstrated little interest in fulfilling their obligations. If they could make us forget about these singles, they would.

Big Bold and Free was not something owed to anyone, or something members paid for. 

No, but it was something they "promised". I understand there is a difference here, but the point is, this organization would just as soon forget about these singles and move on like they did with Big, Bold & Free. For whatever reason, they couldn't deliver Big, Bold and Free. For whatever reason, they're having a hell of a time delivering long overdue singles. I applaud these threads where they are being held accountable. I'm convinced that without the heat and the reminders, we'd never see them.

i agree. and I'm also getting tired of the "then cancel your membership". well, actually, I am, but it's not over this. it's just irritating that people aren't allowed to question something that is owed to them. 

Thats fair. And to a certain point the criticism is warranted. The reality is, this thread is beating a dead horse on both ends of the spectrum. Both sides are annoying each other, and no new arguments are being made.

THEBIBLEISTEN

pjl44 said:

RS65573 said:

pjl44 said:

It's like ordering from the same Chinese restaurant for a few years and they forget the egg rolls twice. Yes, they owe you the egg rolls but how much angst do you want to devote to getting square?

But they keep SELLING eggrolls to me without giving me my free one. Thats what pisses me off personally. You wanna not do the single fine, but then dont do records for record store day and crap til you fulfill your paid for obligation.

They're not forcefully taking your money. You keep giving it to them.

We already gave it to them 3 years ago.

Tim Simmons

Again, we're all on the same page here in terms of wanting the singles, realizing they they owe them to us, and ultimately disappointed that they haven't lived up to their end of the transaction. 

It basically comes down to, is it worth topping this reminding people that nothing has happened with no new solutions, essentially shouting into the void of the stupid internet? Or is it just better to move on with life, hope they show up at some point and if they don't then the club and the band have always been a sham but it doesn't matter because everything is ultimately pointless and we die.

THEBIBLEISTEN

Tim Simmons said:

Again, we're all on the same page here in terms of wanting the singles, realizing they they owe them to us, and ultimately disappointed that they haven't lived up to their end of the transaction. 

It basically comes down to, is it worth topping this reminding people that nothing has happened with no new solutions, essentially shouting into the void of the stupid internet? Or is it just better to move on with life, hope they show up at some point and if they don't then the club and the band have always been a sham but it doesn't matter because everything is ultimately pointless and we die.

Jesus,

Tim Simmons

Basically none of us have any power over any of this. All the relevant thoughts have been said.

THEBIBLEISTEN

Tim Simmons said:

Basically none of us have any power over any of this. All the relevant thoughts have been said.

Tim Simmons said:

Basically none of us have any power over any of this. All the relevant thoughts have been said.

They have? Who made you the judge? Haha

ryanphishes

THEBIBLEISTEN said:

Tim Simmons said:

Basically none of us have any power over any of this. All the relevant thoughts have been said.

Tim Simmons said:

Basically none of us have any power over any of this. All the relevant thoughts have been said.

They have? Who made you the judge? Haha

He's just saying it's beating a dead horse.  Everyone is making the same arguments in circles, and that obviously doesn't accomplish anything.  Everyone is free to comment as they wish.  I don't think Tim is trying to judge or censor anyone.

THEBIBLEISTEN

Thank u for clarifying, 

mace1229

Two thoughts come to mind
I really want an eggroll
I was a member at the time but don’t remember that big bold and beautiful letter. I’m really curious what they had in mind.

JimmyV

mace1229 said:

Two thoughts come to mind
I really want an eggroll
I was a member at the time but don’t remember that big bold and beautiful letter. I’m really curious what they had in mind.

It was going to be a free show for club members. Not sure if they ever determined where and when.

HughFreakingDillon

pjl44 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

weird, if someone says they are planning to do something for me because they sometimes suck at our relationship, I take that as a commitment to the change. but ok. 

"planning" to do something and "are" doing something are very different. Plans fall through all the time. 

again, this is setting the bar really really low for the club/band. to send out a letter of apology to the club saying they can expect something as an apology and to not only not follow through, but try to erase it from memory, is really weak. 

I for one think they should be held to a higher standard than that. 

And again, I am just pointing out a bad example you are using. The Big Bold and Free was not something promised, or owed, or paid for. They made the mistake of saying they were working on something before it was finalized and the plans fell through. You did not pay for it, it did not come out of your membership. But you act like it did.

The singles are paid for and owed. 

Ok then, tell your spouse you are planning to do something nice for them and then never do it. Then report back how they feel about that....

If people see their relationship with any band or fan club as being at all similar to a spouse, I think we're touching on the root of the problem 

oh for fucks sakes, it was a hypothetical parallel. 

HughFreakingDillon

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

weird, if someone says they are planning to do something for me because they sometimes suck at our relationship, I take that as a commitment to the change. but ok. 

"planning" to do something and "are" doing something are very different. Plans fall through all the time. 

again, this is setting the bar really really low for the club/band. to send out a letter of apology to the club saying they can expect something as an apology and to not only not follow through, but try to erase it from memory, is really weak. 

I for one think they should be held to a higher standard than that. 

And again, I am just pointing out a bad example you are using. The Big Bold and Free was not something promised, or owed, or paid for. They made the mistake of saying they were working on something before it was finalized and the plans fell through. You did not pay for it, it did not come out of your membership. But you act like it did.

The singles are paid for and owed. 

i wasn't using it as an example of something paid for or owed. I wasn't even a member of this club when it happened. it was an rebut of the claim "the club always makes things right", which in this case, they didn't. 

So you are saying the band owes us a free concert that they in the past 100% promised and guaranteed the entire ten club that never happened. 

nope. not one bit. 

Then what was this Big Bold and Free thing that was 100% promised, guaranteed, set in stone was going to happen, that they failed to deliver on?

i'm not sure where this communication breakdown is happening, but I'll try to break this down:

original claim:
the club always does right by us fans

counter claim:
no, they don't

the evidence presented by claimant:

none

the evidence presented by counter-claimant:

letter from fan club, dated Aug 1/05, stating specifically that they don't always do right by us (fans) (which, in itself, simply by that admission is enough to stop this argument), but it goes on to state, that, to make things right, we are planning something "big bold beautiful and free" 

this plan never came to fruition. 

now, let's give a parallel hypothetical:

my wife and I aren't getting along. I've been treating her poorly the last little while. I write her a letter saying "I'm planning something big for you to try to smooth things over between us". 

I don't do anything. maybe my plan fell through. maybe I just didn't care. no idea the reason.  And when she asks about it, I claim I never said anything of the sort and shut down any and all reference to it for a decade. 

Do I "owe" her anything? Nope. But do I "always do right by her"?

also nope. 

conclusion: original claim was false. 

decision goes to counter claimant. 

thanks for that enlightening contribution. 

THEBIBLEISTEN

In great news, Trump was Impeached!!!!! Yeah! 

pjl44

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjl44 said:

cincybearcat said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjsteelerfan said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

weird, if someone says they are planning to do something for me because they sometimes suck at our relationship, I take that as a commitment to the change. but ok. 

"planning" to do something and "are" doing something are very different. Plans fall through all the time. 

again, this is setting the bar really really low for the club/band. to send out a letter of apology to the club saying they can expect something as an apology and to not only not follow through, but try to erase it from memory, is really weak. 

I for one think they should be held to a higher standard than that. 

And again, I am just pointing out a bad example you are using. The Big Bold and Free was not something promised, or owed, or paid for. They made the mistake of saying they were working on something before it was finalized and the plans fell through. You did not pay for it, it did not come out of your membership. But you act like it did.

The singles are paid for and owed. 

Ok then, tell your spouse you are planning to do something nice for them and then never do it. Then report back how they feel about that....

If people see their relationship with any band or fan club as being at all similar to a spouse, I think we're touching on the root of the problem 

oh for fucks sakes, it was a hypothetical parallel. 

How we're still needling them over Big, Bold, and Free nearly 15 years later is crazy. To also compare that - in any way - to the feeling of having a promise broken by a spouse is just...I don't know man.