The Concept of God

goldrush

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but personally I'm not trying to take anybody down or shit on anyone. As I've said before my questions are based on a genuine interest in the opposing views, and it's hard to have a discussion on the concept of God without including books, tenets and religions. If the thread has veered away from HFD's original post, then maybe that is down to the (dare I say it?) natural evolution of the thread. 

There will always be opposing views on this - one side will never be able convince the other that they are 100% right. I believe RYME has been open enough to take part in a healthy discussion and has been very open and honest about his beliefs. I'm not trying to force my (non) beliefs on anyone; just asking RYME about some of the content of his last post.

Peace.

hedonist

goldrush, not at all! A culmination of my thoughts after reading the last few pages. I respect anyone who comes from a place of sincerity.

RYME

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

If this were a thread about literature, Bible quotes would make all the sense in the world to me and I would be fascinated by that (I have read the Bible myself and have an English Lit degree, so Bible study in the academic sense is a valuable task IMO), but I'm afraid that Bible quotes used as an actual explanation of what is real or truth to a Christian is equivalent to quoting The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe or The Wizard of Oz to explain the migratory patterns and territoriality of lions. Or maybe like quoting a book that David Koresh or someone wrote, only obviously the Bible is better than anything Koresh could have done, lol.

Anyway, the biggest contradiction I see is the Old Testament vs the New Testament. They have two very different messages, and most of the contradictions stem from how they clash with one another. There seems to be confusion between rich and poor/wealth and poverty, love and vengeance, forgiveness and punishment, and the rights and position of men vs the rights and position of women. Then there is the interpretation of the Bible. I find that the majority of Christians have decided to make some of it literal, and some of it metaphorical. To me, that translates to picking and choosing the meaning of its contents arbitrarily in an effort to basically explain away the impossible while accepting what they can get away with saying is possible. And then there is the doozy. The Ten Commandments: "Thou Shalt Not Kill".... Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I don't even know how many times the Bible contradicts those 4 words, but it's a LOT. "Thou shalt not steal." ... and then it goes on about how God favours plundering and spoiling Egyptians and stealing goats. I could go on, but you get the gist. Of course many, many more contradictions come up when you compare the Bible to organized dogma.

And then there are more nit picky inconsistencies, although those really don't matter to me. I.e., there are different descriptions of how Judas died and shit like that. Those are petty things that I don't care about. I don't see such things as relevant, since the Bible had many authors, so I assume they just messed up some stuff. Probably didn't collaborate closely enough on the details.

Look, at the end of the day, I find it hard to swallow that anyone could really think the Bible is free from contradiction when so many totally different and contradictory beliefs and practices and sects and denominations have been spawned from the same text.

I can almost promise you, PJS, you will get an answer somewhere along the lines that the O.T. is all about foreseeing the N.T. and the N.T. is all about the new covenant between God and the people.  It's a niffy neat 'n tidy little package that way.  The bases are covered.

And I'm sorry, believers, if I'm sounding crass again.  It's just that I got sucked into all this 40 plus years ago after hearing the same rote formatted responses proffered verbatim and then later, taking a more critical approach to the whole thing, saw that it just doesn't add up.  I know your faith is sincere but what makes least sense is the idea that the Bible is God's word.  For all we know, PJSoul's words are God's words and She is trying to tell you something. 

So maybe let's take the good lesson from the Good Book and leave the tall tales in the mythology section where they truly belong.  Whales don't eat people.  People don't survive a blast furnace.  And the Dinosaurs didn't go extinct when they saw the ark floating off and said, "Oh crap!  That was today?"
The dinosaurs went extinct way before the ark.

rgambs

There is nothing that limits the concept of God further than the religions which attempt so very poorly to define it.

rustneversleeps

rgambs said:

There is nothing that limits the concept of God further than the religions which attempt so very poorly to define it.

Pooouuupooonn

rgambs

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There is nothing that limits the concept of God further than the religions which attempt so very poorly to define it.

Pooouuupooonn

Another intelligent contribution from rustneversleeps!
I don't know how you do it, your wit is unmatched and your insight is truly prescient!

rustneversleeps

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There is nothing that limits the concept of God further than the religions which attempt so very poorly to define it.

Pooouuupooonn

Another intelligent contribution from rustneversleeps!
I don't know how you do it, your wit is unmatched and your insight is truly prescient!

exclamation points

rgambs

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

rustneversleeps said:

rgambs said:

There is nothing that limits the concept of God further than the religions which attempt so very poorly to define it.

Pooouuupooonn

Another intelligent contribution from rustneversleeps!
I don't know how you do it, your wit is unmatched and your insight is truly prescient!

exclamation points

He will be here all week folks, come back and see the show again, autographs on Sunday!

RYME

goldrush said:

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but personally I'm not trying to take anybody down or shit on anyone. As I've said before my questions are based on a genuine interest in the opposing views, and it's hard to have a discussion on the concept of God without including books, tenets and religions. If the thread has veered away from HFD's original post, then maybe that is down to the (dare I say it?) natural evolution of the thread. 

There will always be opposing views on this - one side will never be able convince the other that they are 100% right. I believe RYME has been open enough to take part in a healthy discussion and has been very open and honest about his beliefs. I'm not trying to force my (non) beliefs on anyone; just asking RYME about some of the content of his last post.

Peace.

Very kind and respectful words from you.
Which of my latest posts do you have a question about?
And I certainly don't claim to have all the answers.  If I don't know the answer to something, I will look it up so that maby both of us can learn something.

PJ_Soul

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^
An English Lit degree qualifies a person to have studied myths?

Pardon?

PJ_Soul

hedonist said:

Posted a similar thought some pages back, but isn't this about the concept of god?  Not books, not tenets, not religions, not self-righteousness from any view, and holy (ha) shit, not about taking others down.

How goddamned (again, ha) difficult is it to believe or not as you do and not shit on others?

Maybe I'm naive in that my being preached to over time has been rare, and the times it has occurred, been respected, reflected upon, and mostly rejected.  From either side.  Many sides.

Anyway, blowing (pot smoke) in the wind once again.

I can't profess to know shit, but will say on this wave, I'm open - if I'm lucky, always will be for better or worse.

Yes, that was the original topic, but I think maybe we almost exhausted the discussion about that on its own, lol - moving on to organized religion seemed the next logic step! It's still all about beliefs based on God.
FWIW, I see absolutely nothing wrong with questioning and debating religious dogma. I think it's important to do so, actually.

Gern Blansten

goldrush said:

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but personally I'm not trying to take anybody down or shit on anyone. As I've said before my questions are based on a genuine interest in the opposing views, and it's hard to have a discussion on the concept of God without including books, tenets and religions. If the thread has veered away from HFD's original post, then maybe that is down to the (dare I say it?) natural evolution of the thread. 

There will always be opposing views on this - one side will never be able convince the other that they are 100% right. I believe RYME has been open enough to take part in a healthy discussion and has been very open and honest about his beliefs. I'm not trying to force my (non) beliefs on anyone; just asking RYME about some of the content of his last post.

Peace.

As long as one side believes in the supernatural (of which there is no proof of) there will never be an end to the argument.

If I believe that blue monkeys live on venus how do you prove to me that they do not exist?

Annafalk

Gern Blansten said:

goldrush said:

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but personally I'm not trying to take anybody down or shit on anyone. As I've said before my questions are based on a genuine interest in the opposing views, and it's hard to have a discussion on the concept of God without including books, tenets and religions. If the thread has veered away from HFD's original post, then maybe that is down to the (dare I say it?) natural evolution of the thread. 

There will always be opposing views on this - one side will never be able convince the other that they are 100% right. I believe RYME has been open enough to take part in a healthy discussion and has been very open and honest about his beliefs. I'm not trying to force my (non) beliefs on anyone; just asking RYME about some of the content of his last post.

Peace.

As long as one side believes in the supernatural (of which there is no proof of) there will never be an end to the argument.

If I believe that blue monkeys live on venus how do you prove to me that they do not exist?

Is this thread about trying to convince each other that their beliefs or non belief are the right one?

Smellyman

Gern Blansten said:

goldrush said:

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but personally I'm not trying to take anybody down or shit on anyone. As I've said before my questions are based on a genuine interest in the opposing views, and it's hard to have a discussion on the concept of God without including books, tenets and religions. If the thread has veered away from HFD's original post, then maybe that is down to the (dare I say it?) natural evolution of the thread. 

There will always be opposing views on this - one side will never be able convince the other that they are 100% right. I believe RYME has been open enough to take part in a healthy discussion and has been very open and honest about his beliefs. I'm not trying to force my (non) beliefs on anyone; just asking RYME about some of the content of his last post.

Peace.

As long as one side believes in the supernatural (of which there is no proof of) there will never be an end to the argument.

If I believe that blue monkeys live on venus how do you prove to me that they do not exist?

I believe they are green.  Once you  let them into your heart, you will see they are green and they love you.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
Such nonsense.
I have seen those monkeys in the light and they are blue.  Trust me.  Just give it a chance and take the plunge - believe.  If not, who will?

Smellyman

I will not bow to your blue monkeys (or Orange).  Green is the light

brianlux

Smellyman said:

Gern Blansten said:

goldrush said:

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but personally I'm not trying to take anybody down or shit on anyone. As I've said before my questions are based on a genuine interest in the opposing views, and it's hard to have a discussion on the concept of God without including books, tenets and religions. If the thread has veered away from HFD's original post, then maybe that is down to the (dare I say it?) natural evolution of the thread. 

There will always be opposing views on this - one side will never be able convince the other that they are 100% right. I believe RYME has been open enough to take part in a healthy discussion and has been very open and honest about his beliefs. I'm not trying to force my (non) beliefs on anyone; just asking RYME about some of the content of his last post.

Peace.

As long as one side believes in the supernatural (of which there is no proof of) there will never be an end to the argument.

If I believe that blue monkeys live on venus how do you prove to me that they do not exist?

I believe they are green.  Once you  let them into your heart, you will see they are green and they love you.

Green?  Blue?  A common misconception.  Monkey Gods are actually teal:

Smellyman

Annafalk

Is this supposed to be fun? 

Gern Blansten

Smellyman said:

Gern Blansten said:

goldrush said:

Not sure if this is aimed at me, but personally I'm not trying to take anybody down or shit on anyone. As I've said before my questions are based on a genuine interest in the opposing views, and it's hard to have a discussion on the concept of God without including books, tenets and religions. If the thread has veered away from HFD's original post, then maybe that is down to the (dare I say it?) natural evolution of the thread. 

There will always be opposing views on this - one side will never be able convince the other that they are 100% right. I believe RYME has been open enough to take part in a healthy discussion and has been very open and honest about his beliefs. I'm not trying to force my (non) beliefs on anyone; just asking RYME about some of the content of his last post.

Peace.

As long as one side believes in the supernatural (of which there is no proof of) there will never be an end to the argument.

If I believe that blue monkeys live on venus how do you prove to me that they do not exist?

I believe they are green.  Once you  let them into your heart, you will see they are green and they love you.

I think you are confusing the green cheese that the moon is made out of with the blue monkeys that live on Venus.

John 4:20

brianlux

Annafalk said:

Is this supposed to be fun? 

Sure!  As Kurt Vonnegut (one of my gods) once said, "We're here to fart around".

brianlux

Exodus 20:3  "Thou shalt have no gods before me."

I got to thinking about this statement and something that seems rather obvious to me came to mind- that this is perhaps one of the most brilliant, effectively controlling statements ever made.  How best keep people in line?  Tell them your god is the only god and you must believe in "him" (implying, or else).  I don't say this to be funny or cute or snide.  I really do wonder if the intent of this statement was made at the time  to keep people in line and has worked effectively thus ever since? 

Smellyman

brianlux said:

Exodus 20:3  "Thou shalt have no gods before me."

I got to thinking about this statement and something that seems rather obvious to me came to mind- that this is perhaps one of the most brilliant, effectively controlling statements ever made.  How best keep people in line?  Tell them your god is the only god and you must believe in "him" (implying, or else).  I don't say this to be funny or cute or snide.  I really do wonder if the intent of this statement was made at the time  to keep people in line and has worked effectively thus ever since? 

and God knows there are other gods?  Why so insecure?

Gern Blansten

brianlux said:

Exodus 20:3  "Thou shalt have no gods before me."

I got to thinking about this statement and something that seems rather obvious to me came to mind- that this is perhaps one of the most brilliant, effectively controlling statements ever made.  How best keep people in line?  Tell them your god is the only god and you must believe in "him" (implying, or else).  I don't say this to be funny or cute or snide.  I really do wonder if the intent of this statement was made at the time  to keep people in line and has worked effectively thus ever since? 

I think that was the intent...to make christianity superior to the multi god religions

jeffbr

Gern Blansten said:

brianlux said:

Exodus 20:3  "Thou shalt have no gods before me."

I got to thinking about this statement and something that seems rather obvious to me came to mind- that this is perhaps one of the most brilliant, effectively controlling statements ever made.  How best keep people in line?  Tell them your god is the only god and you must believe in "him" (implying, or else).  I don't say this to be funny or cute or snide.  I really do wonder if the intent of this statement was made at the time  to keep people in line and has worked effectively thus ever since? 

I think that was the intent...to make christianity superior to the multi god religions

Definitely. And yet some Christian based faiths do have other gods/deities. They pray to the Virgin Mary, they pray to saints. They worship the Pope. Etc... Their one god is three gods, and their three gods are one god. For a monotheistic faith it sure is hard to keep track of who one should worship and pray to.

brianlux

Smellyman said:

brianlux said:

Exodus 20:3  "Thou shalt have no gods before me."

I got to thinking about this statement and something that seems rather obvious to me came to mind- that this is perhaps one of the most brilliant, effectively controlling statements ever made.  How best keep people in line?  Tell them your god is the only god and you must believe in "him" (implying, or else).  I don't say this to be funny or cute or snide.  I really do wonder if the intent of this statement was made at the time  to keep people in line and has worked effectively thus ever since? 

and God knows there are other gods?  Why so insecure?

Again, in Exodus:

Exodus 34:14 "For thou shalt worship no other god; for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God..."

Insecure, indeed!  And again, this is about control.  It's a warning:  God is jealous and if you don't follow what we are saying you will pay mightily.

I'm not slamming faith, but I do question what is worth having faith in.  For me, it's the belief that somethings in life the universe and everything are mighty damn mysterious, and I'm OK with that.  Other than that, leave me out  of the control issues.

PJ_Soul

Annafalk said:

Is this supposed to be fun? 

I think discussing religion, debating religion, arguing about religion, and mocking religion is very fun indeed!

Annafalk

PJ_Soul said:

Annafalk said:

Is this supposed to be fun? 

I think discussing religion, debating religion, arguing about religion, and mocking religion is very fun indeed!

brianlux said:

Annafalk said:

Is this supposed to be fun? 

Sure!  As Kurt Vonnegut (one of my gods) once said, "We're here to fart around".

I've been thinking about this. I believe God wants us to be happy and laugh a lot. We are created with a sense of humor for a reason. If it's not humor at the expense of others, if they get hurt by it, why not.
I also think it's important to discuss and reflect on religion.  

Gern Blansten

Annafalk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Annafalk said:

Is this supposed to be fun? 

I think discussing religion, debating religion, arguing about religion, and mocking religion is very fun indeed!

brianlux said:

Annafalk said:

Is this supposed to be fun? 

Sure!  As Kurt Vonnegut (one of my gods) once said, "We're here to fart around".

I've been thinking about this. I believe God wants us to be happy and laugh a lot. We are created with a sense of humor for a reason. If it's not humor at the expense of others, if they get hurt by it, why not.
I also think it's important to discuss and reflect on religion.  

We have a sense of humor because we have highly functioning brains.  

Smellyman

Gern Blansten said:

Annafalk said:

PJ_Soul said:

Annafalk said:

Is this supposed to be fun? 

I think discussing religion, debating religion, arguing about religion, and mocking religion is very fun indeed!

brianlux said:

Annafalk said:

Is this supposed to be fun? 

Sure!  As Kurt Vonnegut (one of my gods) once said, "We're here to fart around".

I've been thinking about this. I believe God wants us to be happy and laugh a lot. We are created with a sense of humor for a reason. If it's not humor at the expense of others, if they get hurt by it, why not.
I also think it's important to discuss and reflect on religion.  

We have a sense of humor because we have highly functioning brains.  

False.  God wills it