^^^ Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
It is and that's what going to Walmart on Black Friday is for. Practice for getting into heaven.
I would rather fend them off fully clothed while being able to score a deal rather than being naked in my own home doing so. It gives me good practice when that time comes.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
^^^ Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
It is and that's what going to Walmart on Black Friday is for. Practice for getting into heaven.
I would rather fend them off fully clothed while being able to score a deal rather than being naked in my own home doing so. It gives me good practice when that time comes.
The thing is though, you'll want to get used to fending off the hoards in your all-together butt naked birthday suit 'cause threads ain't allowed in heaven. Only feather and you have to earn them.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
That is funny. Black Friday at Walmart actually looks like hell in a bottle to me. People clobbering each other over the head for a $5 toaster oven. hahaha!! " That's good fun right? "That's my waffle iron dammit, I saw it first and that vacuum cleaner!!! Mine mine mine!! Thump!! Again, John 3:16 said For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who so ever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. That (whosoever) word is a big word I don't recall it saying that there are only 144,000 tickets and it's all sold out. My educated guess is that He created about 12 billion souls/people. I don't recall it saying that 144,000 shall not perish, but have everlasting life. it says Who So Ever. More fake preaching I guess, ment to discourage & cause more confusions. That 144,000 number is in the book of Revelation, I don't remember what chapter that was, I'd have to look it up. But I can tell you that I know it's not talking about a maximum amount of people allowed in.
Post edited by RYME on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
That is funny. Black Friday at Walmart actually looks like hell to me. People clobbering each other over a $5 toaster oven. hahaha!! Again, John 3:16 said For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who so ever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. That (whosoever) word is a big word I don't recall it saying that there are only 144,000 tickets and it's all sold out. I don't recall it saying that 144,000 shall not perish but have everlasting life. it says Who So Ever. More fake preaching I guess, ment to discourage & cause more confusions. That 144,000 number is in the book of Revelation, but being the maximum number of people that heaven can hold is wrong. It's talking about something else.
Walmart is the Seat of Hell. Ironically, it was set into motion by a Presbyterian.
The confusion over the facts and figures presented in the Bible was explained quite well to me, RYME, by a Dominican Monk who explained the difference between a Biblical literalist and a Biblical contextualist, for former being one who believes literally in ever number and figure and (to many of us) far-fetched tales in the Bible and the latter as one who interprets the stories to be allegorical or metaphorical lessons meant to lead to a more satisfying spiritual life. That was a bit of an AH-HA for me that made some of the Biblical stories more useful are far less judgemental.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
That is funny. Black Friday at Walmart actually looks like hell in a bottle to me. People clobbering each other over the head for a $5 toaster oven. hahaha!! " That's good fun right? "That's my waffle iron dammit, I saw it first and that vacuum cleaner!!! Mine mine mine!! Thump!! Again, John 3:16 said For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who so ever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. That (whosoever) word is a big word I don't recall it saying that there are only 144,000 tickets and it's all sold out. My educated guess is that He created about 12 billion souls/people. I don't recall it saying that 144,000 shall not perish, but have everlasting life. it says Who So Ever. More fake preaching I guess, ment to discourage & cause more confusions. That 144,000 number is in the book of Revelation, I don't remember what chapter that was, I'd have to look it up. But I can tell you that I know it's not talking about a maximum amount of people allowed in.
Numbers are interesting. Woops I meant to quote back to you but hit my own quote. Anyway
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
That is funny. Black Friday at Walmart actually looks like hell in a bottle to me. People clobbering each other over the head for a $5 toaster oven. hahaha!! " That's good fun right? "That's my waffle iron dammit, I saw it first and that vacuum cleaner!!! Mine mine mine!! Thump!! Again, John 3:16 said For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who so ever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. That (whosoever) word is a big word I don't recall it saying that there are only 144,000 tickets and it's all sold out. My educated guess is that He created about 12 billion souls/people. I don't recall it saying that 144,000 shall not perish, but have everlasting life. it says Who So Ever. More fake preaching I guess, ment to discourage & cause more confusions. That 144,000 number is in the book of Revelation, I don't remember what chapter that was, I'd have to look it up. But I can tell you that I know it's not talking about a maximum amount of people allowed in.
Numbers are interesting. Woops I meant to quote back to you but hit my own quote. Anyway
Really? I thought it was one of the most boring books in the Bible.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
^^^ Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
It is and that's what going to Walmart on Black Friday is for. Practice for getting into heaven.
I would rather fend them off fully clothed while being able to score a deal rather than being naked in my own home doing so. It gives me good practice when that time comes.
The thing is though, you'll want to get used to fending off the hoards in your all-together butt naked birthday suit 'cause threads ain't allowed in heaven. Only feather and you have to earn them.
That really does seem to be the case Brian. The no clothes allowed in Heaven thing I mean. I have watched pretty much every single movie about the Rapture out there (end of the world movies - I love them, even the weirdo religious-made ones), and all of these movies that are actually made by and for Christians show that the chosen ones who disappear and go to Heaven when the Rapture occurs vanish into thin air, and all their clothes and anything else on their bodies remain. Meanwhile, the rapture movies not made by or for Christians usually have the people disappear with their clothing.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^ Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
It is and that's what going to Walmart on Black Friday is for. Practice for getting into heaven.
I would rather fend them off fully clothed while being able to score a deal rather than being naked in my own home doing so. It gives me good practice when that time comes.
The thing is though, you'll want to get used to fending off the hoards in your all-together butt naked birthday suit 'cause threads ain't allowed in heaven. Only feather and you have to earn them.
That really does seem to be the case Brian. The no clothes allowed in Heaven thing I mean. I have watched pretty much every single movie about the Rapture out there (end of the world movies - I love them, even the weirdo religious-made ones), and all of these movies that are actually made by and for Christians show that the chosen ones who disappear and go to Heaven when the Rapture occurs vanish into thin air, and all their clothes and anything else on their bodies remain. Meanwhile, the rapture movies not made by or for Christians usually have the people disappear with their clothing.
Your Righteous acts make up the fine linen for the clothes you'll be wearing in heaven. Your documentation for that is Revelation 19:8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and White: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. So you see, if you haven't done anything good in your life, you will be as naked as a jaybird. The more good works you do, the better your clothes will be when you get there. Again the word rapture is not in the Bible that's more fake religion. Fly Away Doctrine will land you right into Satan's camp, so be careful out there.
^^^ Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
It is and that's what going to Walmart on Black Friday is for. Practice for getting into heaven.
I would rather fend them off fully clothed while being able to score a deal rather than being naked in my own home doing so. It gives me good practice when that time comes.
The thing is though, you'll want to get used to fending off the hoards in your all-together butt naked birthday suit 'cause threads ain't allowed in heaven. Only feather and you have to earn them.
That really does seem to be the case Brian. The no clothes allowed in Heaven thing I mean. I have watched pretty much every single movie about the Rapture out there (end of the world movies - I love them, even the weirdo religious-made ones), and all of these movies that are actually made by and for Christians show that the chosen ones who disappear and go to Heaven when the Rapture occurs vanish into thin air, and all their clothes and anything else on their bodies remain. Meanwhile, the rapture movies not made by or for Christians usually have the people disappear with their clothing.
Ha ha ha! Your Righteous acts make up the fine linen for the clothes you'll be wearing in heaven. So if you haven't done anything good in your life, you will be as naked as a jaybird. The more good works you do, the better your clothes will be when you get there. On a more serious note, Again the word rapture is not in the Bible that's more fake religion. Fly Away Doctrine will land you right into Satan's camp, so be careful out there.
What difference does it make if the word "Rapture" is in the Bible or not? It is just a common term for the second coming of Jesus, which is in the Bible. A lot of Christians use the term - that isn't "fly away doctrine"... and sorry, but you think those Christians will land in Satan's camp because they have slightly different beliefs than you? That doesn't seem very Christian. I guess we can assume that Atheists are in that camp too, eh? Or is our camp even worse than Satan's?! Yikes.
Anyway, I you just explained why the Christian-made rapture movies always do the old empty clothes thing - they need to be naked so they can be fitted with their fine linen suits. Makes sense.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
^^^ Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
It is and that's what going to Walmart on Black Friday is for. Practice for getting into heaven.
I would rather fend them off fully clothed while being able to score a deal rather than being naked in my own home doing so. It gives me good practice when that time comes.
The thing is though, you'll want to get used to fending off the hoards in your all-together butt naked birthday suit 'cause threads ain't allowed in heaven. Only feather and you have to earn them.
That really does seem to be the case Brian. The no clothes allowed in Heaven thing I mean. I have watched pretty much every single movie about the Rapture out there (end of the world movies - I love them, even the weirdo religious-made ones), and all of these movies that are actually made by and for Christians show that the chosen ones who disappear and go to Heaven when the Rapture occurs vanish into thin air, and all their clothes and anything else on their bodies remain. Meanwhile, the rapture movies not made by or for Christians usually have the people disappear with their clothing.
Your Righteous acts make up the fine linen for the clothes you'll be wearing in heaven. Your documentation for that is Revelation 19:8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and White: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. So you see, if you haven't done anything good in your life, you will be as naked as a jaybird. The more good works you do, the better your clothes will be when you get there. Again the word rapture is not in the Bible that's more fake religion. Fly Away Doctrine will land you right into Satan's camp, so be careful out there.
Isn't that just 's more metaphor thouhg, RYME? If not, then it's a contradiction because there are plenty of passages about turning away from the things of this earth (like fine linens) and focusing on the spiritual. And if any of this bit about having fine clothes being based on how much good you've done, would it not be more Biblical to show some humility and wear rags or be naked so as not to make the rest of the ordinary folks be looked down upon? I would strip those ostentatious white lines right off and stand naked with the sinners and say to them, "Hey, it's OK, I was an asshole sometimes too."
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
^^^ Is that 144000 thing real? and if so, how do they know how many are currently up there residing so they can stop worshipping?
It is and that's what going to Walmart on Black Friday is for. Practice for getting into heaven.
I would rather fend them off fully clothed while being able to score a deal rather than being naked in my own home doing so. It gives me good practice when that time comes.
The thing is though, you'll want to get used to fending off the hoards in your all-together butt naked birthday suit 'cause threads ain't allowed in heaven. Only feather and you have to earn them.
That really does seem to be the case Brian. The no clothes allowed in Heaven thing I mean. I have watched pretty much every single movie about the Rapture out there (end of the world movies - I love them, even the weirdo religious-made ones), and all of these movies that are actually made by and for Christians show that the chosen ones who disappear and go to Heaven when the Rapture occurs vanish into thin air, and all their clothes and anything else on their bodies remain. Meanwhile, the rapture movies not made by or for Christians usually have the people disappear with their clothing.
Your Righteous acts make up the fine linen for the clothes you'll be wearing in heaven. Your documentation for that is Revelation 19:8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and White: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. So you see, if you haven't done anything good in your life, you will be as naked as a jaybird. The more good works you do, the better your clothes will be when you get there. Again the word rapture is not in the Bible that's more fake religion. Fly Away Doctrine will land you right into Satan's camp, so be careful out there.
Isn't that just 's more metaphor thouhg, RYME? If not, then it's a contradiction because there are plenty of passages about turning away from the things of this earth (like fine linens) and focusing on the spiritual. And if any of this bit about having fine clothes being based on how much good you've done, would it not be more Biblical to show some humility and wear rags or be naked so as not to make the rest of the ordinary folks be looked down upon? I would strip those ostentatious white lines right off and stand naked with the sinners and say to them, "Hey, it's OK, I was an asshole sometimes too."
He knows that none of us are perfect that's why He always gives us a way out. Something you can work towards. First you repent and ask for forgiveness (if you are guilty of something) that's what I do on a daily basis cuz I mess up every day somehow somewhere. (I have at times, been an asshole in my life. Most likely will again, never feel good about it. Repent and move on.) And he will forgive whatever it is right then and there or whatever's bothering you. And he doesn't even want to hear about it again that's what the whole beauty of the crucifixion and forgiveness thing was all about, so that we could pray to him ask for forgiveness, guidance, and strength learn from our mistakes and move on. He doesn't hold grudges. And as far as the clothing/righteous acts goes, He says this 1Peter 4:8 And above all these things have fervent charity (good works) among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. Good deeds outweigh bad deeds is what it's saying. I try to provide answers backed by scripture whereby it's not my opinion that I'm passing along. The thing about the naked jaybird is not in the bible, that was meant to inspire a laugh.
Because if you don't believe that he forgives you when you ask for it you are basically re crucifying him all over again. He payed an awesome price for us, for one and all time.
Yes rape and murder are in a different category. If you rape and or murder someone you cannot obtain salvation in the flesh. You must go to heaven have your trial there. With the person that you raped and murdered present, and God as the judge. This is well-documented in the book of Deuteronomy.
.... When you read back through all your posts RYME, do they really seem rational to you? I realize that might sound a little insulting, but I am genuinely curious. You come off as someone who believes they have all the answers, while everybody else - the vast majority of the world's population - don't believe a lot of the details you're going in to (or any of it). I'm not sure if you've told us yet why or how you think you're right and just about everybody else is wrong when it comes to a subject that actually bears no factual evidence whatsoever (I think only Atheists have the upper hand in that context, since the only fact there is when it comes to religion is that there is absolutely no evidence to prove any religion or God is true). I can't quite wrap my brain around how you believe everything you're saying without questioning if what you're saying is rational or justified. I'm even more confused about how someone who seems to adhere so closely to the Bible doesn't appear to acknowledge all of the contradictions in it, or the fact that so much of what is in there obviously is not followed by the faithful... seems like those who believe in the Bible the way you do pick and choose what to believe in or do. Can you answer such questions, or do you just not question anything when it comes to your faith? I don't understand how anyone can possibly believe that "because the Bible says so" means anything at all, like that is somehow proof of something. That makes no sense.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Because if you don't believe that he forgives you when you ask for it you are basically re crucifying him all over again.
Yes rape and murder are in a different category. If you rape and or murder someone you cannot obtain salvation in the flesh. You must go to heaven have your trial there. With the person that you raped and murdered present, and God as the judge. This is well-documented in the book of Deuteronomy.
So what do you think about this?...
Say man and wife die in a car crash. Man has been having an affair with Mistress but wife didn't know that. Mistress dies the next day.
Who does the man hook up with in heaven?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
Because if you don't believe that he forgives you when you ask for it you are basically re crucifying him all over again.
Yes rape and murder are in a different category. If you rape and or murder someone you cannot obtain salvation in the flesh. You must go to heaven have your trial there. With the person that you raped and murdered present, and God as the judge. This is well-documented in the book of Deuteronomy.
So what do you think about this?...
Say man and wife die in a car crash. Man has been having an affair with Mistress but wife didn't know that. Mistress dies the next day.
Who does the man hook up with in heaven?
If the dude was Mormon he could hook up with both of them!
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
A customer in the store today said, "What Muhammad and Jesus were the same man walking around? Wouldn't that make all the wars a total waste?"
Couldn't agree more. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but fundamentalism so often inevitably leads to something awful. The world would be so much more peaceful if people would keep their personal faiths personal.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
.... When you read back through all your posts RYME, do they really seem rational to you? I realize that might sound a little insulting, but I am genuinely curious. You come off as someone who believes they have all the answers, while everybody else - the vast majority of the world's population - don't believe a lot of the details you're going in to (or any of it). I'm not sure if you've told us yet why or how you think you're right and just about everybody else is wrong when it comes to a subject that actually bears no factual evidence whatsoever (I think only Atheists have the upper hand in that context, since the only fact there is when it comes to religion is that there is absolutely no evidence to prove any religion or God is true). I can't quite wrap my brain around how you believe everything you're saying without questioning if what you're saying is rational or justified. I'm even more confused about how someone who seems to adhere so closely to the Bible doesn't appear to acknowledge all of the contradictions in it, or the fact that so much of what is in there obviously is not followed by the faithful... seems like those who believe in the Bible the way you do pick and choose what to believe in or do. Can you answer such questions, or do you just not question anything when it comes to your faith? I don't understand how anyone can possibly believe that "because the Bible says so" means anything at all, like that is somehow proof of something. That makes no sense.
You ask good questions. I'm not by any means the end all be all know it all. I still have ton to learn. The bible itself is pregnant or ongoing if you will. The more times through the more you pick up. The answers I give are backed by scripture. I've stated earlier why I like the King James version. My grandma got me started early in life. She, a strong German lady who knew the bible frontwards and backwards. She didn't like what was being taught, or lack thereof at the local churches and Sunday schools. So she decided to conduct her own sunday class at her house every Sunday, for a few of my cousins & I. A lesson and then of course good food for lunch. And God bless her, She was tough as nails in a good way, wanted to make sure that we were disciplined. Made sure we understood what we were reading. Providing us with a Strong's exhaustive Concordance she would make sure that we knew what each word was talking about if it didn't make sense in English, she would have us go back and read the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek word so that we could understand what it was saying. She showed us how to spend 5 years and seriously study the whole bible at what I would consider a college-level although we were quite young, and that the best way was chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Leaving man's opinions out of it as much as possible. It becomes very fasinating over time when someone can show you cross referencing in the bible. When parts of Genesis mirror The Book of Revelation. When something in Matthew is documented clearly in the Book of Psalms. Best example is When Jesus was hanging on the cross. Matthew 27:46 46, And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice saying "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? "That is to say "My God, My God,why hast thou forsaken me?" Many at the scene, (I witnesses) thought that He was questioning and doubting God Himself while hanging there. No,,,,,,,,,,,This is where it gets fasinating. While hanging on the cross, Jesus is actually quoting Daniel who was doubting God, from the 22nd Psalm. It was Daniel who was saying my God my God why have you forsaken me? And by quoting this on the cross He's going back a thousand years. Daniel was doubtful with what God was asking of him to do. The Book of Psalms was written 1000 years before the crucifixion and yet during the crucifixion it went exactly as it was stated almost minute for a minute in Psalms 22. This my friends is where you get your faith. Its like reading tomorrow's newspaper today. If He says something is going to happen, it will happen. I've been through the Bible it numerous times now, & honestly I don't see where all the contradictions are that you claim that there are. If you can show me the contradictions, I'd love to see it, be sure to include the subject. Anyway, It's not about me.
If this were a thread about literature, Bible quotes would make all the sense in the world to me and I would be fascinated by that (I have read the Bible myself and have an English Lit degree, so Bible study in the academic sense is a valuable task IMO), but I'm afraid that Bible quotes used as an actual explanation of what is real or truth to a Christian is equivalent to quoting The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe or The Wizard of Oz to explain the migratory patterns and territoriality of lions. Or maybe like quoting a book that David Koresh or someone wrote, only obviously the Bible is better than anything Koresh could have done, lol.
Anyway, the biggest contradiction I see is the Old Testament vs the New Testament. They have two very different messages, and most of the contradictions stem from how they clash with one another. There seems to be confusion between rich and poor/wealth and poverty, love and vengeance, forgiveness and punishment, and the rights and position of men vs the rights and position of women. Then there is the interpretation of the Bible. I find that the majority of Christians have decided to make some of it literal, and some of it metaphorical. To me, that translates to picking and choosing the meaning of its contents arbitrarily in an effort to basically explain away the impossible while accepting what they can get away with saying is possible. And then there is the doozy. The Ten Commandments: "Thou Shalt Not Kill".... Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I don't even know how many times the Bible contradicts those 4 words, but it's a LOT. "Thou shalt not steal." ... and then it goes on about how God favours plundering and spoiling Egyptians and stealing goats. I could go on, but you get the gist. Of course many, many more contradictions come up when you compare the Bible to organized dogma.
And then there are more nit picky inconsistencies, although those really don't matter to me. I.e., there are different descriptions of how Judas died and shit like that. Those are petty things that I don't care about. I don't see such things as relevant, since the Bible had many authors, so I assume they just messed up some stuff. Probably didn't collaborate closely enough on the details.
Look, at the end of the day, I find it hard to swallow that anyone could really think the Bible is free from contradiction when so many totally different and contradictory beliefs and practices and sects and denominations have been spawned from the same text.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If this were a thread about literature, Bible quotes would make all the sense in the world to me and I would be fascinated by that (I have read the Bible myself and have an English Lit degree, so Bible study in the academic sense is a valuable task IMO), but I'm afraid that Bible quotes used as an actual explanation of what is real or truth to a Christian is equivalent to quoting The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe or The Wizard of Oz to explain the migratory patterns and territoriality of lions. Or maybe like quoting a book that David Koresh or someone wrote, only obviously the Bible is better than anything Koresh could have done, lol.
Anyway, the biggest contradiction I see is the Old Testament vs the New Testament. They have two very different messages, and most of the contradictions stem from how they clash with one another. There seems to be confusion between rich and poor/wealth and poverty, love and vengeance, forgiveness and punishment, and the rights and position of men vs the rights and position of women. Then there is the interpretation of the Bible. I find that the majority of Christians have decided to make some of it literal, and some of it metaphorical. To me, that translates to picking and choosing the meaning of its contents arbitrarily in an effort to basically explain away the impossible while accepting what they can get away with saying is possible. And then there is the doozy. The Ten Commandments: "Thou Shalt Not Kill".... Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I don't even know how many times the Bible contradicts those 4 words, but it's a LOT. "Thou shalt not steal." ... and then it goes on about how God favours plundering and spoiling Egyptians and stealing goats. I could go on, but you get the gist. Of course many, many more contradictions come up when you compare the Bible to organized dogma.
And then there are more nit picky inconsistencies, although those really don't matter to me. I.e., there are different descriptions of how Judas died and shit like that. Those are petty things that I don't care about. I don't see such things as relevant, since the Bible had many authors, so I assume they just messed up some stuff. Probably didn't collaborate closely enough on the details.
Look, at the end of the day, I find it hard to swallow that anyone could really think the Bible is free from contradiction when so many totally different and contradictory beliefs and practices and sects and denominations have been spawned from the same text.
If this were a thread about literature, Bible quotes would make all the sense in the world to me and I would be fascinated by that (I have read the Bible myself and have an English Lit degree, so Bible study in the academic sense is a valuable task IMO), but I'm afraid that Bible quotes used as an actual explanation of what is real or truth to a Christian is equivalent to quoting The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe or The Wizard of Oz to explain the migratory patterns and territoriality of lions. Or maybe like quoting a book that David Koresh or someone wrote, only obviously the Bible is better than anything Koresh could have done, lol.
Anyway, the biggest contradiction I see is the Old Testament vs the New Testament. They have two very different messages, and most of the contradictions stem from how they clash with one another. There seems to be confusion between rich and poor/wealth and poverty, love and vengeance, forgiveness and punishment, and the rights and position of men vs the rights and position of women. Then there is the interpretation of the Bible. I find that the majority of Christians have decided to make some of it literal, and some of it metaphorical. To me, that translates to picking and choosing the meaning of its contents arbitrarily in an effort to basically explain away the impossible while accepting what they can get away with saying is possible. And then there is the doozy. The Ten Commandments: "Thou Shalt Not Kill".... Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I don't even know how many times the Bible contradicts those 4 words, but it's a LOT. "Thou shalt not steal." ... and then it goes on about how God favours plundering and spoiling Egyptians and stealing goats. I could go on, but you get the gist. Of course many, many more contradictions come up when you compare the Bible to organized dogma.
And then there are more nit picky inconsistencies, although those really don't matter to me. I.e., there are different descriptions of how Judas died and shit like that. Those are petty things that I don't care about. I don't see such things as relevant, since the Bible had many authors, so I assume they just messed up some stuff. Probably didn't collaborate closely enough on the details.
Look, at the end of the day, I find it hard to swallow that anyone could really think the Bible is free from contradiction when so many totally different and contradictory beliefs and practices and sects and denominations have been spawned from the same text.
I can almost promise you, PJS, you will get an answer somewhere along the lines that the O.T. is all about foreseeing the N.T. and the N.T. is all about the new covenant between God and the people. It's a niffy neat 'n tidy little package that way. The bases are covered.
And I'm sorry, believers, if I'm sounding crass again. It's just that I got sucked into all this 40 plus years ago after hearing the same rote formatted responses proffered verbatim and then later, taking a more critical approach to the whole thing, saw that it just doesn't add up. I know your faith is sincere but what makes least sense is the idea that the Bible is God's word. For all we know, PJSoul's words are God's words and She is trying to tell you something.
So maybe let's take the good lesson from the Good Book and leave the tall tales in the mythology section where they truly belong. Whales don't eat people. People don't survive a blast furnace. And the Dinosaurs didn't go extinct when they saw the ark floating off and said, "Oh crap! That was today?"
Post edited by brianlux on
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
.... When you read back through all your posts RYME, do they really seem rational to you? I realize that might sound a little insulting, but I am genuinely curious. You come off as someone who believes they have all the answers, while everybody else - the vast majority of the world's population - don't believe a lot of the details you're going in to (or any of it). I'm not sure if you've told us yet why or how you think you're right and just about everybody else is wrong when it comes to a subject that actually bears no factual evidence whatsoever (I think only Atheists have the upper hand in that context, since the only fact there is when it comes to religion is that there is absolutely no evidence to prove any religion or God is true). I can't quite wrap my brain around how you believe everything you're saying without questioning if what you're saying is rational or justified. I'm even more confused about how someone who seems to adhere so closely to the Bible doesn't appear to acknowledge all of the contradictions in it, or the fact that so much of what is in there obviously is not followed by the faithful... seems like those who believe in the Bible the way you do pick and choose what to believe in or do. Can you answer such questions, or do you just not question anything when it comes to your faith? I don't understand how anyone can possibly believe that "because the Bible says so" means anything at all, like that is somehow proof of something. That makes no sense.
You ask good questions. I'm not by any means the end all be all know it all. I still have ton to learn. The bible itself is pregnant or ongoing if you will. The more times through the more you pick up. The answers I give are backed by scripture. I've stated earlier why I like the King James version. My grandma got me started early in life. She, a strong German lady who knew the bible frontwards and backwards. She didn't like what was being taught, or lack thereof at the local churches and Sunday schools. So she decided to conduct her own sunday class at her house every Sunday, for a few of my cousins & I. A lesson and then of course good food for lunch. And God bless her, She was tough as nails in a good way, wanted to make sure that we were disciplined. Made sure we understood what we were reading. Providing us with a Strong's exhaustive Concordance she would make sure that we knew what each word was talking about if it didn't make sense in English, she would have us go back and read the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek word so that we could understand what it was saying. She showed us how to spend 5 years and seriously study the whole bible at what I would consider a college-level although we were quite young, and that the best way was chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Leaving man's opinions out of it as much as possible. It becomes very fasinating over time when someone can show you cross referencing in the bible. When parts of Genesis mirror The Book of Revelation. When something in Matthew is documented clearly in the Book of Psalms. Best example is When Jesus was hanging on the cross. Matthew 27:46 46, And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice saying "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? "That is to say "My God, My God,why hast thou forsaken me?" Many at the scene, (I witnesses) thought that He was questioning and doubting God Himself while hanging there. No,,,,,,,,,,,This is where it gets fasinating. While hanging on the cross, Jesus is actually quoting Daniel who was doubting God, from the 22nd Psalm. It was Daniel who was saying my God my God why have you forsaken me? And by quoting this on the cross He's going back a thousand years. Daniel was doubtful with what God was asking of him to do. The Book of Psalms was written 1000 years before the crucifixion and yet during the crucifixion it went exactly as it was stated almost minute for a minute in Psalms 22. This my friends is where you get your faith. Its like reading tomorrow's newspaper today. If He says something is going to happen, it will happen. I've been through the Bible it numerous times now, & honestly I don't see where all the contradictions are that you claim that there are. If you can show me the contradictions, I'd love to see it, be sure to include the subject. Anyway, It's not about me.
Was it really Psalms 22 predicting the future, or Jesus quoting a story from the past? If someone was to be crucified tomorrow, and cried out 'My God, why hast thou foresaken me?" would you say they were quoting the Bible, or was Jesus predicting their fate 2000+ years ago? It's a matter of personal perception I guess. You will often find references in literature to older novels or adaptations, and newer authors being influenced by older works. Where you can say that "this my friends is where you get your faith", others will say it's just a story referencing an older story.
If your grandma hadn't got you started at such a young age, do you think that you would have found your own way to believe? I mean, do you think you had a choice when you were younger whether to embrace what you were being taught or to question it, or have you always believed? As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, my Mum is very religious, although it wasn't forced on us. When we were younger we went to church and Sunday school because she did, but from very early on it just felt like people telling stories to me. Like a book group who only ever read one novel.
“Do not postpone happiness”
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
0
goldrush
everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,579
brianlux said: And the Dinosaurs didn't go extinct when they saw the ark floating off and said, "Oh crap! That was today?"
I swear I laughed so hard when I read this I nearly choked on my drink!
“Do not postpone happiness”
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
Posted a similar thought some pages back, but isn't this about the concept of god? Not books, not tenets, not religions, not self-righteousness from any view, and holy (ha) shit, not about taking others down.
How goddamned (again, ha) difficult is it to believe or not as you do and not shit on others?
Maybe I'm naive in that my being preached to over time has been rare, and the times it has occurred, been respected, reflected upon, and mostly rejected. From either side. Many sides.
Anyway, blowing (pot smoke) in the wind once again.
I can't profess to know shit, but will say on this wave, I'm open - if I'm lucky, always will be for better or worse.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,319
Comments
I would rather fend them off fully clothed while being able to score a deal rather than being naked in my own home doing so. It gives me good practice when that time comes.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Oh father who aren't in heaven.
Thump!!
Again,
John 3:16 said
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who so ever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
That (whosoever) word is a big word I don't recall it saying that there are only 144,000 tickets and it's all sold out.
My educated guess is that He created about 12 billion souls/people.
I don't recall it saying that 144,000 shall not perish, but have everlasting life.
it says Who So Ever.
More fake preaching I guess, ment to discourage & cause more confusions.
That 144,000 number is in the book of Revelation, I don't remember what chapter that was, I'd have to look it up. But I can tell you that I know it's not talking about a maximum amount of people allowed in.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
The confusion over the facts and figures presented in the Bible was explained quite well to me, RYME, by a Dominican Monk who explained the difference between a Biblical literalist and a Biblical contextualist, for former being one who believes literally in ever number and figure and (to many of us) far-fetched tales in the Bible and the latter as one who interprets the stories to be allegorical or metaphorical lessons meant to lead to a more satisfying spiritual life. That was a bit of an AH-HA for me that made some of the Biblical stories more useful are far less judgemental.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Your documentation for that is Revelation 19:8.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and White: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
So you see, if you haven't done anything good in your life, you will be as naked as a jaybird. The more good works you do, the better your clothes will be when you get there. Again the word rapture is not in the Bible that's more fake religion. Fly Away Doctrine will land you right into Satan's camp, so be careful out there.
Anyway, I you just explained why the Christian-made rapture movies always do the old empty clothes thing - they need to be naked so they can be fitted with their fine linen suits. Makes sense.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
First you repent and ask for forgiveness (if you are guilty of something) that's what I do on a daily basis cuz I mess up every day somehow somewhere. (I have at times, been an asshole in my life. Most likely will again, never feel good about it. Repent and move on.) And he will forgive whatever it is right then and there or whatever's bothering you. And he doesn't even want to hear about it again that's what the whole beauty of the crucifixion and forgiveness thing was all about, so that we could pray to him ask for forgiveness, guidance, and strength learn from our mistakes and move on. He doesn't hold grudges.
And as far as the clothing/righteous acts goes, He says this
1Peter 4:8
And above all these things have fervent charity (good works) among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Good deeds outweigh bad deeds is what it's saying.
I try to provide answers backed by scripture whereby it's not my opinion that I'm passing along. The thing about the naked jaybird is not in the bible, that was meant to inspire a laugh.
and rape and murder are in another category? I thought all you had to do was ask for forgiveness, no matter what, and it's all good?
-EV 8/14/93
He payed an awesome price for us, for one and all time.
Yes rape and murder are in a different category. If you rape and or murder someone you cannot obtain salvation in the flesh. You must go to heaven have your trial there.
With the person that you raped and murdered present, and God as the judge.
This is well-documented in the book of Deuteronomy.
Say man and wife die in a car crash. Man has been having an affair with Mistress but wife didn't know that. Mistress dies the next day.
Who does the man hook up with in heaven?
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Couldn't agree more. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but fundamentalism so often inevitably leads to something awful. The world would be so much more peaceful if people would keep their personal faiths personal.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
You ask good questions.
I'm not by any means the end all be all know it all. I still have ton to learn. The bible itself is pregnant or ongoing if you will. The more times through the more you pick up.
The answers I give are backed by scripture. I've stated earlier why I like the King James version.
My grandma got me started early in life.
She, a strong German lady who knew the bible frontwards and backwards. She didn't like what was being taught, or lack thereof at the local churches and Sunday schools. So she decided to conduct her own sunday class at her house every Sunday, for a few of my cousins & I. A lesson and then of course good food for lunch. And God bless her, She was tough as nails in a good way, wanted to make sure that we were disciplined. Made sure we understood what we were reading. Providing us with a Strong's exhaustive Concordance she would make sure that we knew what each word was talking about if it didn't make sense in English, she would have us go back and read the original Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek word so that we could understand what it was saying. She showed us how to spend 5 years and seriously study the whole bible at what I would consider a college-level although we were quite young, and that the best way was chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Leaving man's opinions out of it as much as possible.
It becomes very fasinating over time when someone can show you cross referencing in the bible. When parts of Genesis mirror The Book of Revelation. When something in Matthew is documented clearly in the Book of Psalms. Best example is When Jesus was hanging on the cross.
Matthew
27:46
46, And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice saying "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? "That is to say "My God, My God,why hast thou forsaken me?"
Many at the scene, (I witnesses) thought that He was questioning and doubting God Himself while hanging there. No,,,,,,,,,,,This is where it gets fasinating.
While hanging on the cross, Jesus is actually quoting Daniel who was doubting God, from the 22nd Psalm. It was Daniel who was saying my God my God why have you forsaken me? And by quoting this on the cross He's going back a thousand years. Daniel was doubtful with what God was asking of him to do. The Book of Psalms was written 1000 years before the crucifixion and yet during the crucifixion it went exactly as it was stated almost minute for a minute in Psalms 22. This my friends is where you get your faith. Its like reading tomorrow's newspaper today. If He says something is going to happen, it will happen.
I've been through the Bible it numerous times now, & honestly I don't see where all the contradictions are that you claim that there are. If you can show me the contradictions, I'd love to see it, be sure to include the subject.
Anyway,
It's not about me.
Anyway, the biggest contradiction I see is the Old Testament vs the New Testament. They have two very different messages, and most of the contradictions stem from how they clash with one another. There seems to be confusion between rich and poor/wealth and poverty, love and vengeance, forgiveness and punishment, and the rights and position of men vs the rights and position of women. Then there is the interpretation of the Bible. I find that the majority of Christians have decided to make some of it literal, and some of it metaphorical. To me, that translates to picking and choosing the meaning of its contents arbitrarily in an effort to basically explain away the impossible while accepting what they can get away with saying is possible. And then there is the doozy. The Ten Commandments: "Thou Shalt Not Kill".... Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I don't even know how many times the Bible contradicts those 4 words, but it's a LOT. "Thou shalt not steal." ... and then it goes on about how God favours plundering and spoiling Egyptians and stealing goats. I could go on, but you get the gist. Of course many, many more contradictions come up when you compare the Bible to organized dogma.
And then there are more nit picky inconsistencies, although those really don't matter to me. I.e., there are different descriptions of how Judas died and shit like that. Those are petty things that I don't care about. I don't see such things as relevant, since the Bible had many authors, so I assume they just messed up some stuff. Probably didn't collaborate closely enough on the details.
Look, at the end of the day, I find it hard to swallow that anyone could really think the Bible is free from contradiction when so many totally different and contradictory beliefs and practices and sects and denominations have been spawned from the same text.
And I'm sorry, believers, if I'm sounding crass again. It's just that I got sucked into all this 40 plus years ago after hearing the same rote formatted responses proffered verbatim and then later, taking a more critical approach to the whole thing, saw that it just doesn't add up. I know your faith is sincere but what makes least sense is the idea that the Bible is God's word. For all we know, PJSoul's words are God's words and She is trying to tell you something.
So maybe let's take the good lesson from the Good Book and leave the tall tales in the mythology section where they truly belong. Whales don't eat people. People don't survive a blast furnace. And the Dinosaurs didn't go extinct when they saw the ark floating off and said, "Oh crap! That was today?"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
An English Lit degree qualifies a person to have studied myths?
If your grandma hadn't got you started at such a young age, do you think that you would have found your own way to believe? I mean, do you think you had a choice when you were younger whether to embrace what you were being taught or to question it, or have you always believed? As I've mentioned earlier in this thread, my Mum is very religious, although it wasn't forced on us. When we were younger we went to church and Sunday school because she did, but from very early on it just felt like people telling stories to me. Like a book group who only ever read one novel.
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
How goddamned (again, ha) difficult is it to believe or not as you do and not shit on others?
Maybe I'm naive in that my being preached to over time has been rare, and the times it has occurred, been respected, reflected upon, and mostly rejected. From either side. Many sides.
Anyway, blowing (pot smoke) in the wind once again.
I can't profess to know shit, but will say on this wave, I'm open - if I'm lucky, always will be for better or worse.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"