The Concept of God

HughFreakingDillon

@RYME if you don't answer because you've left the thread, that's fine. But if you happen to check in..........:

while a lot of the bible is metaphorical, I honestly believe the passage of "turn the other cheek" was actually to be taken quite literally. At least that was my interpretation, and how I learned it from ministers in the united church. 

I don't think anyone here isn't sure of what they believe. from my perspective, people here who aren't theists simply understand that there is no way to KNOW what is out there. I don't get the sense anyone was looking for any help. there are differing degrees of comfort in that; I, myself, didn't give a shit about it until I had kids. But I am also firm in my belief that no one can know in this life no matter what anyone says. 

this is not meant as an insult, but I need to ask: don't you find that thinking you can help people with the word of god a trifle....arrogant? like you know something they don't and if they just listen they'll "see the light". there is nothing tangible in the "help" that message-sharers provide. that's what I have always gotten from people who wish to share their message. some may be pure in their motivation, like they just want others to be as "happy" as they are or think they are. But how does one know that I'd be just as happy or unhappy with or without god? I know a whole host of miserable christians. everyone's life is shit to varying degrees, and while theism can bring some comfort in that there is some sort of "plan" or "reason" for whatever is happening to them, it doesn't take away the pain of what is actually happening in the present. 

Gern Blansten

Yeah I believe a few of us posting here were former believers.  That's why these discussions tend to get heated because some think they need to convince us to believe because we are "missing something."  

I'm not missing anything.  That stuff makes no sense and my brain doesn't allow me to believe it.

RYME

 I'll still check in and out.  But I'll try to stop being preachy.
Good questions, fair enough.
I certainly don't want to come across as arogent.  Nobody was asking for help here no.  But the discussion was to discuss the concept of God.  And being a Christian myself, when I read all these things here.  Honestly when I read that someone here believes in no god, I want to help that person find God. I feel motivated to.  But often times that person doesn't want to hear it.  ok. That's when I am supposed to turn the other cheek and back off.
When someone says "there is no god But if there is a god he is definitely a shitty God for allowing all of this world bull shit to occur."   I want to explain, but it would take way to long to write it all out, about  Our Father is indeed fair, and that He has a plan that is in the works, and that you are a part of His plan, and that you are a Child of the living God and He Loves You. And how when it looks like the bad guys in this world are winning, they certainly are not.
 Yes if I could, I'd like people to experience the joy in having an understanding and finding a relationship with the Lord, and to feel the comfort that comes with it.  It's definitely not arogence, it comes more from a compassion that I have for people.  Yes I want people to be happy, or happier than they are.
Yes we all have our own burdens and varying degrees of it.  And when Jesus says "Place your burdens on Me". He wants to be the yolk for you to take the pressure off of you.  Ahhh, see I'm getting way to preachy again damn it. I wasn't going to do that.  Hmmm,. How should I finish this?  This response went way longer than I had planned.
I guess it's hard for me to talk about our Father with out telling you about how awesome He is.

rgambs

Those are all just words.
Was he the yoke for those who were tortured in the Holocaust?

I'm sure that was a great comfort for them.
If there is a God, He needs to ask THEM for forgiveness.

rgambs

Why is God always a dude?  Women give birth to new life, not men.  
White Jesus.
Nuff said.

brianlux

rgambs said:

Why is God always a dude?  Women give birth to new life, not men.  
White Jesus.
Nuff said.

Whoa, brother, I look white to you? 

brianlux

Seriously though, I've asked the same question- why is God always male.  I've never really gotten a solid answer to that.

Jason P

brianlux said:

Seriously though, I've asked the same question- why is God always male.  I've never really gotten a solid answer to that.

My kitty wonders the same thing when I feed her kibble each morning

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

Seriously though, I've asked the same question- why is God always male.  I've never really gotten a solid answer to that.

Because man made god, and in this world, women are inferior to men (that is still true for the majority of the world). So obviously the men who used the concept of god to control the masses aren't about to make it female. And I think god was given a gender simply because god has to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and a god without gender would have been harder for some people to grasp or accept or relate to. Also, the male religious leaders would have had a much harder time speaking for god if they weren't considered to be like god on some level. There is a psychological reason for them to decide that man was made in God's image, and a sociological reason for them to make man the ruler of women.
Men always worked to ensure that women had no power - making god a woman wasn't exactly going to help that cause, lol. I mean, Brian, women can't even hold any positions of power in the Catholic Church now (which should be illegal btw). It's not exactly surprising that god was created as a man, right?

FoxyRedLa

God is Spirit. Masculine terms are used and He is referred to as "Father".

PJfanwillneverleave1

FoxyRedLa said:

God is Spirit. Masculine terms are used and He is referred to as "Father".

Who gave the masculine term to be accepted as official since it was written?  Women have no problem accepting a male overlord in a fictitious place but on earth it's a no go?

FoxyRedLa

The intention is not to minimize women, He values man and woman the same. He's described as a man.

PJfanwillneverleave1

FoxyRedLa said:

The intention is not to minimize women, He values man and woman the same. He's described as a man.

What a selfish prick.  god even gets people to describe him as a man.  If believers turn out to be right I will be pissed off as I would prefer to spend eternity with an almighty beautiful woman. (you're welcome dyer)

FoxyRedLa

Honestly I don't know that God is described any specific characteristics. 

rgambs

FoxyRedLa said:

The intention is not to minimize women, He values man and woman the same. He's described as a man.

God made man in His image and then took Adam's rib and made Eve.
Sounds pretty minimising to me.

FoxyRedLa

Did we already talk about "rib" meaning something else? Rib. I don't think rib is literally a bone.

FoxyRedLa

And again, I don't think God specifically has characteristics. 

PJ_Soul

FoxyRedLa said:

Honestly I don't know that God is described any specific characteristics. 

Well in Judeo-Christianity and Islam at least, God is really clearly male.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

FoxyRedLa said:

Honestly I don't know that God is described any specific characteristics. 

Well in Judeo-Christianity and Islam at least, God is really clearly male.

Absolutely, and your explanation as to why God is always a male (page 15) is right on.

I don't mean to pick on any believers for your faith or beliefs and I do believe in freedom of religion, including non-religion or atheism, but when faith is used as leverage as control over another group of people or gender, it becomes invasive and corrosive. 

Of course, not all people of faith or churches operate in controlling ways.  Some churches allow or even encourage women to be pastors.  Episcopal priest Malcom Boyd (R.I.P.) was was outspoken about gay rights and was involved in the anti-Vietnam War movement and was one very loving and cool dude. 

Back in the 70's, while trying to embrace Christianity in the 70's (including attending a Bible Church in the Bay Area and two Baptist churches in the Bible-belt of western New York State), it became clear to me that my "faith" was, for me, a personal false choice.  I began to see that, for me, the guilt/fear tactic of "you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior or go to hell" just didn't add up and the peer pressure of those close to me who were devout Christians was also not reason enough for me to ignore my own logic and feeling and it all actually betrayed my true spiritual nature which, in my better, less selfish moments, is manifested though caring about the well-being of others and all life, a love of nature and an acceptance of the mysterious nature of what we cannot explain.

So when I hear Christians say, "I will pray that God will soften you and you will allow Him into your heart, I tend to think that's fine, but   I also sincerely hope that if one day you find yourself doubting the reality of your religion that you will forgive yourself and not allow guilt or unfounded fear to bury your true inner spirit.  Maybe keep open possibility that a higher power doesn't have to be male.  Maybe also consider the valid perception  that the universe is mysterious or possibly even explainable and maybe the only higher power is your own effort to be the best you can be.

GG82556

The best way to describe God is infinite. ∞
Almost everyone tries to label and box God into parameters they can understand.  He is the best definition of infinity.  Infinity can not be perceived to it's full extent, because we as living people can't comprehend the full concept of what God is.  I only use He/Father because that is how historically God has been referred to for thousands of years.  God has no gender I believe in the sense we can comprehend it.
And yes I do believe in God in the Christian belief.  Jesus died for my sins and the sins of all people.  I am born again.  I was once a sceptic/agnostic/atheist /doubter.  
As I learn more about Jesus/God/The Holy Ghost/The Bible the better I feel about my life and what will happen to me when I die.  I believe in miracles, I see them everyday.  Everyday I wake up with my wife the love of my life beside me is a small miracle.
The fact that I am not dead from all the stupid things I did when I was younger is a miracle.  I have a roof over my head, food in my belly, and a job that pays the bills and leaves me some extra money to occasionally buy things nobody really needs and I am able to contribute what I feel comfortable giving to my church on Sunday is a miracle.  I am very fortunate to have found a church full of some of the most wonderful people I've met.
I know my church isn't in it for the money, they are in it for what all Christians should be doing...  Spreading the gospel and hopefully gather new believers that will be saved liked I am now.  That is the essence of the Great Commission.  If I give my church money it is because I want to, not because they want me to.  I know where that money goes, my church is very transparent in where the money goes.  They have to pay for electricity/heat/ac/water/building maintenance/improvements, they also support many outside missionaries, and the people who help run the church as their full time job also need salaries.  This includes the Pastor, Associate Pastor, Secretary, Bookkeeper, and Maintenance/Janitorial staff.  my church also helps support many causes be it a Christian organization, or a hungry person who comes in asking for help with paying for a meal or place to stay.   I pray everyone can find a church as great as the one I have been able to join.
I know not all churches are good.  Some are greedy, teach false messages and have sketchy doctrine.  If your church is teaching a prosperity doctrine, or that by doing good works will get you a free ride into heaven run away!  Not everyone will find their rewards in this lifetime, we will only find our rewards when we have passed on.  I pray everyone can find the true message of God.  I am still learning how to be a better Christian and human being.

Sorry have to wrap this up it's getting late, and I should be asleep.  I pray you all will come know Jesus, the closer I get to him the better my life gets.

Here's a few of my favorite verses.
Romans 3:23
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of god.

John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works, lest any man should boast. 

Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out.