And it should go without saying, but this is a thread on the AMT, and thus a topic for discussion and debate. If anyone doesn't want to engage in discussion or debate, don't participate in the thread.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
So here's what we've discovered from all of this... Those who don't believe in God understand the Bible more than most. This is great news, but, why do you care? If you think it's all wrong then why do you still continue to quote from this evil book to prove your point of view? Get rid of this hideous thing, keep living life happy and move on... It's actually weird when you start to think about it, to know God is evil, the Bible is horrendous and those who know the pages from beginning to end consider it a joke yet they still hold on to it. I can respect that, to know that you don't pray/worship/seek anything at all has to be pretty comforting. So just let it go. God is horrible to you, the Bible is evil and we all move on to what we believe. It's strange how those who could care less still do.....
If someone is going to selectively quote bible verses to justify the death penalty, then I care.
If you're selectively quoting bible verses to justify hugging kittens, then I don't care.
So you're selective when you care.... Got it. Damn, it really is hard being a believer. Never really thought about things that way, I just always cared.
1998 Dallas (7/5) 2006 San Fran (7/15,7/16) 2009 San Fran (8/28) 2010 Bristow (5/13) NY (5/21) 2011 Alpine Valley (9/3,9/4) 2012 Missoula (9/30) 2013 Chicago (7/19) Pittsburgh (10/11) Buffalo (10/12) Baltimore (10/27) Dallas (11/15) 2014 Austin (10/12) Memphis (10/14) St. Paul (10/19) Milwaukee (10/20) Denver (10/22) 2016 Ft. Lauderdale (4/8) Miami (4/9) Hampton (4/18) Philly (4/28,4/29) NY (5/1,5/2) 2018 Seattle (8/10) Missoula (8/13) 2022 Nashville (9/16) E.V. - 2008 Berkeley (4/8) 2012 Austin (11/9,11/12) Temple of the Dog - 2016 Upper Darby
So here's what we've discovered from all of this... Those who don't believe in God understand the Bible more than most. This is great news, but, why do you care? If you think it's all wrong then why do you still continue to quote from this evil book to prove your point of view? Get rid of this hideous thing, keep living life happy and move on... It's actually weird when you start to think about it, to know God is evil, the Bible is horrendous and those who know the pages from beginning to end consider it a joke yet they still hold on to it. I can respect that, to know that you don't pray/worship/seek anything at all has to be pretty comforting. So just let it go. God is horrible to you, the Bible is evil and we all move on to what we believe. It's strange how those who could care less still do.....
If someone is going to selectively quote bible verses to justify the death penalty, then I care.
If you're selectively quoting bible verses to justify hugging kittens, then I don't care.
So you're selective when you care.... Got it. Damn, it really is hard being a believer. Never really thought about things that way, I just always cared.
Ha! Nice attempt at word twisting, I'll give you that. Doesn't work, though.
So you care about every statement everyone ever makes, even when it's about something trivial? Good luck to you - you'll be exhausted.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
So here's what we've discovered from all of this... Those who don't believe in God understand the Bible more than most. This is great news, but, why do you care? If you think it's all wrong then why do you still continue to quote from this evil book to prove your point of view? Get rid of this hideous thing, keep living life happy and move on... It's actually weird when you start to think about it, to know God is evil, the Bible is horrendous and those who know the pages from beginning to end consider it a joke yet they still hold on to it. I can respect that, to know that you don't pray/worship/seek anything at all has to be pretty comforting. So just let it go. God is horrible to you, the Bible is evil and we all move on to what we believe. It's strange how those who could care less still do.....
If someone is going to selectively quote bible verses to justify the death penalty, then I care.
If you're selectively quoting bible verses to justify hugging kittens, then I don't care.
So you're selective when you care.... Got it. Damn, it really is hard being a believer. Never really thought about things that way, I just always cared.
Ha! Nice attempt at word twisting, I'll give you that. Doesn't work, though.
So you care about every statement everyone ever makes, even when it's about something trivial? Good luck to you - you'll be exhausted.
Hmmmmmmmm, did you even read what you just said? This entire conversation has been trivial. Exhausted? Life does that to ya.
Post edited by Attaway77 on
1998 Dallas (7/5) 2006 San Fran (7/15,7/16) 2009 San Fran (8/28) 2010 Bristow (5/13) NY (5/21) 2011 Alpine Valley (9/3,9/4) 2012 Missoula (9/30) 2013 Chicago (7/19) Pittsburgh (10/11) Buffalo (10/12) Baltimore (10/27) Dallas (11/15) 2014 Austin (10/12) Memphis (10/14) St. Paul (10/19) Milwaukee (10/20) Denver (10/22) 2016 Ft. Lauderdale (4/8) Miami (4/9) Hampton (4/18) Philly (4/28,4/29) NY (5/1,5/2) 2018 Seattle (8/10) Missoula (8/13) 2022 Nashville (9/16) E.V. - 2008 Berkeley (4/8) 2012 Austin (11/9,11/12) Temple of the Dog - 2016 Upper Darby
So here's what we've discovered from all of this... Those who don't believe in God understand the Bible more than most. This is great news, but, why do you care? If you think it's all wrong then why do you still continue to quote from this evil book to prove your point of view? Get rid of this hideous thing, keep living life happy and move on... It's actually weird when you start to think about it, to know God is evil, the Bible is horrendous and those who know the pages from beginning to end consider it a joke yet they still hold on to it. I can respect that, to know that you don't pray/worship/seek anything at all has to be pretty comforting. So just let it go. God is horrible to you, the Bible is evil and we all move on to what we believe. It's strange how those who could care less still do.....
If someone is going to selectively quote bible verses to justify the death penalty, then I care.
If you're selectively quoting bible verses to justify hugging kittens, then I don't care.
So you're selective when you care.... Got it. Damn, it really is hard being a believer. Never really thought about things that way, I just always cared.
Ha! Nice attempt at word twisting, I'll give you that. Doesn't work, though.
So you care about every statement everyone ever makes, even when it's about something trivial? Good luck to you - you'll be exhausted.
Hmmmmmmmm, did you even read what you just said? This entire conversation has been trivial. Exhausted? Life does that to ya.
I don't view the death penalty as trivial. I'll argue against it any chance I get.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
So here's what we've discovered from all of this... Those who don't believe in God understand the Bible more than most. This is great news, but, why do you care? If you think it's all wrong then why do you still continue to quote from this evil book to prove your point of view? Get rid of this hideous thing, keep living life happy and move on... It's actually weird when you start to think about it, to know God is evil, the Bible is horrendous and those who know the pages from beginning to end consider it a joke yet they still hold on to it. I can respect that, to know that you don't pray/worship/seek anything at all has to be pretty comforting. So just let it go. God is horrible to you, the Bible is evil and we all move on to what we believe. It's strange how those who could care less still do.....
Fair enough Attaway and I can respect your perspective. But I think there is some middle ground here. It is possible to have read the entire Bible and study much of in in depth (I have, both) and draw a conclusion that it lies somewhere between evil and divinely inspired. Personally, I think the Bible has some fascinating stories, some fine poetry, many examples of inspirational words and good advice about how to be a better human being but I also see much of it as fable, myth, exaggeration, humanly flawed and scattered with accounts of deeds that were supposedly endorsed by God but that I personally see as despicable. Sort of like any history, really, the good, the bad and the ugly.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So here's what we've discovered from all of this... Those who don't believe in God understand the Bible more than most. This is great news, but, why do you care? If you think it's all wrong then why do you still continue to quote from this evil book to prove your point of view? Get rid of this hideous thing, keep living life happy and move on... It's actually weird when you start to think about it, to know God is evil, the Bible is horrendous and those who know the pages from beginning to end consider it a joke yet they still hold on to it. I can respect that, to know that you don't pray/worship/seek anything at all has to be pretty comforting. So just let it go. God is horrible to you, the Bible is evil and we all move on to what we believe. It's strange how those who could care less still do.....
no, I don't think so. I don't know more than any believer. I stopped studying it as a kid. But many people view it more as a textbook of a bygone era. just man-written stories and manuscripts that don't hold any more factual water than The Lord of the Rings.
And I'm just the opposite. I would imagine that believing there is something after this where you get to see all your loved ones again would be quite comforting. I find no comfort in thinking I'll never see my family again when they die. I would imagine that atheists are probably the saddest ones at funerals, as there is no "we'll see him again" in our grieving process. My brother seems to find the whole thing beautiful. I've never seen him cry a tear at a funeral. It's like he views it as like a promotion. Like he can't wait to get there too.
I don't think people truly think god is evil. for starters, if they don't believe god exists, they can't think it's evil. second, all they are saying is that if you believe god has power over the human race, but does nothing to get rid of pain and suffering, then yes, I think it is understandable that people question why they'd follow such a being.
however, I think many or most believers just think god created us and gave us free will, hence the whole Noah story. he couldn't control what was happening, so he killed everybody to start fresh. the bible is very clear that god gave man free will. so the "evil god letting shit happen when he could intervene" doesn't really make sense.
however, there are other believers who explain things, usually tragic tihngs, away with "it's god's plan". this is an honest question: how can he have a plan if he has no control over the situation?
Hugh, interesting that you mentioned The Lord of the Rings.I've often thrown this hypothetical around about that.
Imagine a worldwide animal extinction (which is eventually inevitable) and imagine the next form of human-like beings inhabiting this planet unearthing a copy of The Lord of the Rings and that this copy of LOTR is the only written documentation ever found of other existence on the planet. No Holy Bibles, no Qu'rans, no Dianetics, etc. Would this new species of humanoids then take the word of J.R.R. Tolkien as gospel? Will they believe the lords and wizards and elves and orcs and trolls and hobbits and dwarves in this book are the beings that inhabited the planet before them? Will they see them as the ones who built the world then destroyed it. Will they worship Gandalf or Sauron or Saruman or Radagast or Aragorn or Isildur as we now worship God, Allah, Buddha, or Horis? Or perhaps they'll worship Tolkien as a "god." Will they calculate the age of the earth based on the timeline of LOTR? Will they see the history of Middle-Earth being that as the former homosapiens' natural history?
If you really think about what religions and the concept of God or gods are, it's really not that far-fetched.
Hugh, interesting that you mentioned The Lord of the Rings.I've often thrown this hypothetical around about that.
Imagine a worldwide animal extinction (which is eventually inevitable) and imagine the next form of human-like beings inhabiting this planet unearthing a copy of The Lord of the Rings and that this copy of LOTR is the only written documentation ever found of other existence on the planet. No Holy Bibles, no Qu'rans, no Dianetics, etc. Would this new species of humanoids then take the word of J.R.R. Tolkien as gospel? Will they believe the lords and wizards and elves and orcs and trolls and hobbits and dwarves in this book are the beings that inhabited the planet before them? Will they see them as the ones who built the world then destroyed it. Will they worship Gandalf or Sauron or Saruman or Radagast or Aragorn or Isildur as we now worship God, Allah, Buddha, or Horis? Or perhaps they'll worship Tolkien as a "god." Will they calculate the age of the earth based on the timeline of LOTR? Will they see the history of Middle-Earth being that as the former homosapiens' natural history?
If you really think about what religions and the concept of God or gods are, it's really not that far-fetched.
Fascinating concept, Dyer!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Hugh, interesting that you mentioned The Lord of the Rings.I've often thrown this hypothetical around about that.
Imagine a worldwide animal extinction (which is eventually inevitable) and imagine the next form of human-like beings inhabiting this planet unearthing a copy of The Lord of the Rings and that this copy of LOTR is the only written documentation ever found of other existence on the planet. No Holy Bibles, no Qu'rans, no Dianetics, etc. Would this new species of humanoids then take the word of J.R.R. Tolkien as gospel? Will they believe the lords and wizards and elves and orcs and trolls and hobbits and dwarves in this book are the beings that inhabited the planet before them? Will they see them as the ones who built the world then destroyed it. Will they worship Gandalf or Sauron or Saruman or Radagast or Aragorn or Isildur as we now worship God, Allah, Buddha, or Horis? Or perhaps they'll worship Tolkien as a "god." Will they calculate the age of the earth based on the timeline of LOTR? Will they see the history of Middle-Earth being that as the former homosapiens' natural history?
If you really think about what religions and the concept of God or gods are, it's really not that far-fetched.
I brought this exact same concept up in a conversation I had with someone in the analog world. Good to know I wasn't the only one who had this thought!
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
If you're like those of us who see religion and God as a form of mythology (which is not a bad thing), but wonder what lies beyond life and worry about not seeing loved ones after death, this is my way of looking at it: First, times spent with loved ones remain as memories. Memories are thoughts and thoughts emanate out from our brains as low frequency waves similar to radio waves. Those waves do not die. That is science. This I cannot prove, but I wonder, when thinking about loved ones, if our thoughts about them emanating out into the universe, eventually to mingle with the thoughts of our loved ones? I think very possible so. And if the loved one you miss is a parent (as I miss my mother) it's their DNA that made you what you are and in that way they live in you.
Another thing that is true in terms of science is that the atoms and molecules that make up the body also do not die. All the water, air, carbon and minerals of every one who has lived still exists and many of those atoms exist in our own bodies- including those of the saints and those of the most evil. That's a weird thought but not so unsettling if you consider that our minds and bodies have the power to use those atoms and molecules for whatever purpose we choose, be it good or bad. We can utilize Hitler's atoms and molecules toward altruistic purposes or incorporate Jack the Ripper's into working to cure a disease.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So here's what we've discovered from all of this... Those who don't believe in God understand the Bible more than most. This is great news, but, why do you care? If you think it's all wrong then why do you still continue to quote from this evil book to prove your point of view? Get rid of this hideous thing, keep living life happy and move on... It's actually weird when you start to think about it, to know God is evil, the Bible is horrendous and those who know the pages from beginning to end consider it a joke yet they still hold on to it. I can respect that, to know that you don't pray/worship/seek anything at all has to be pretty comforting. So just let it go. God is horrible to you, the Bible is evil and we all move on to what we believe. It's strange how those who could care less still do.....
no, I don't think so. I don't know more than any believer. I stopped studying it as a kid. But many people view it more as a textbook of a bygone era. just man-written stories and manuscripts that don't hold any more factual water than The Lord of the Rings.
And I'm just the opposite. I would imagine that believing there is something after this where you get to see all your loved ones again would be quite comforting. I find no comfort in thinking I'll never see my family again when they die. I would imagine that atheists are probably the saddest ones at funerals, as there is no "we'll see him again" in our grieving process. My brother seems to find the whole thing beautiful. I've never seen him cry a tear at a funeral. It's like he views it as like a promotion. Like he can't wait to get there too.
I don't think people truly think god is evil. for starters, if they don't believe god exists, they can't think it's evil. second, all they are saying is that if you believe god has power over the human race, but does nothing to get rid of pain and suffering, then yes, I think it is understandable that people question why they'd follow such a being.
however, I think many or most believers just think god created us and gave us free will, hence the whole Noah story. he couldn't control what was happening, so he killed everybody to start fresh. the bible is very clear that god gave man free will. so the "evil god letting shit happen when he could intervene" doesn't really make sense.
however, there are other believers who explain things, usually tragic tihngs, away with "it's god's plan". this is an honest question: how can he have a plan if he has no control over the situation?
right....and why pray? If god isn't capable/willing to answer prayers why go through the motions?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
If you're like those of us who see religion and God as a form of mythology (which is not a bad thing), but wonder what lies beyond life and worry about not seeing loved ones after death, this is my way of looking at it: First, times spent with loved ones remain as memories. Memories are thoughts and thoughts emanate out from our brains as low frequency waves similar to radio waves. Those waves do not die. That is science. This I cannot prove, but I wonder, when thinking about loved ones, if our thoughts about them emanating out into the universe, eventually to mingle with the thoughts of our loved ones? I think very possible so. And if the loved one you miss is a parent (as I miss my mother) it's their DNA that made you what you are and in that way they live in you.
Another thing that is true in terms of science is that the atoms and molecules that make up the body also do not die. All the water, air, carbon and minerals of every one who has lived still exists and many of those atoms exist in our own bodies- including those of the saints and those of the most evil. That's a weird thought but not so unsettling if you consider that our minds and bodies have the power to use those atoms and molecules for whatever purpose we choose, be it good or bad. We can utilize Hitler's atoms and molecules toward altruistic purposes or incorporate Jack the Ripper's into working to cure a disease.
I was watching a segment with Neil deGrasse Tyson the other day, and when asked about an afterlife, he included this, and I am of course parphrasing in this quote: "I will not get cremated, I will get buried, and the reason is, when you get cremated, your energy, which we know does not go away, as no energy can be destroyed, goes up into the air and eventually into space. When you are buried, your energy gets recycled into the earth by way of the animals and bacteria that are feeding on your decomposing body. I would rather be part of the earth again than be floating out somewhere in space".
The guy is fascinating to listen to. I follow him on Twitter, and read his stuff as much as I can.
If you're like those of us who see religion and God as a form of mythology (which is not a bad thing), but wonder what lies beyond life and worry about not seeing loved ones after death, this is my way of looking at it: First, times spent with loved ones remain as memories. Memories are thoughts and thoughts emanate out from our brains as low frequency waves similar to radio waves. Those waves do not die. That is science. This I cannot prove, but I wonder, when thinking about loved ones, if our thoughts about them emanating out into the universe, eventually to mingle with the thoughts of our loved ones? I think very possible so. And if the loved one you miss is a parent (as I miss my mother) it's their DNA that made you what you are and in that way they live in you.
Another thing that is true in terms of science is that the atoms and molecules that make up the body also do not die. All the water, air, carbon and minerals of every one who has lived still exists and many of those atoms exist in our own bodies- including those of the saints and those of the most evil. That's a weird thought but not so unsettling if you consider that our minds and bodies have the power to use those atoms and molecules for whatever purpose we choose, be it good or bad. We can utilize Hitler's atoms and molecules toward altruistic purposes or incorporate Jack the Ripper's into working to cure a disease.
I was watching a segment with Neil deGrasse Tyson the other day, and when asked about an afterlife, he included this, and I am of course parphrasing in this quote: "I will not get cremated, I will get buried, and the reason is, when you get cremated, your energy, which we know does not go away, as no energy can be destroyed, goes up into the air and eventually into space. When you are buried, your energy gets recycled into the earth by way of the animals and bacteria that are feeding on your decomposing body. I would rather be part of the earth again than be floating out somewhere in space".
The guy is fascinating to listen to. I follow him on Twitter, and read his stuff as much as I can.
I happened to see that clip too... I thought it was a perfectly valid desire, although it made me wonder why he didn't want to float off into space. Being in space seems like something he's into, haha.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If you're like those of us who see religion and God as a form of mythology (which is not a bad thing), but wonder what lies beyond life and worry about not seeing loved ones after death, this is my way of looking at it: First, times spent with loved ones remain as memories. Memories are thoughts and thoughts emanate out from our brains as low frequency waves similar to radio waves. Those waves do not die. That is science. This I cannot prove, but I wonder, when thinking about loved ones, if our thoughts about them emanating out into the universe, eventually to mingle with the thoughts of our loved ones? I think very possible so. And if the loved one you miss is a parent (as I miss my mother) it's their DNA that made you what you are and in that way they live in you.
Another thing that is true in terms of science is that the atoms and molecules that make up the body also do not die. All the water, air, carbon and minerals of every one who has lived still exists and many of those atoms exist in our own bodies- including those of the saints and those of the most evil. That's a weird thought but not so unsettling if you consider that our minds and bodies have the power to use those atoms and molecules for whatever purpose we choose, be it good or bad. We can utilize Hitler's atoms and molecules toward altruistic purposes or incorporate Jack the Ripper's into working to cure a disease.
I was watching a segment with Neil deGrasse Tyson the other day, and when asked about an afterlife, he included this, and I am of course parphrasing in this quote: "I will not get cremated, I will get buried, and the reason is, when you get cremated, your energy, which we know does not go away, as no energy can be destroyed, goes up into the air and eventually into space. When you are buried, your energy gets recycled into the earth by way of the animals and bacteria that are feeding on your decomposing body. I would rather be part of the earth again than be floating out somewhere in space".
The guy is fascinating to listen to. I follow him on Twitter, and read his stuff as much as I can.
I happened to see that clip too... I thought it was a perfectly valid desire, although it made me wonder why he didn't want to float off into space. Being in space seems like something he's into, haha.
I gathered he wanted to remain here. Be part of earth and its inhabitants for as long as anything is here. that's what I got from it.
If you're like those of us who see religion and God as a form of mythology (which is not a bad thing), but wonder what lies beyond life and worry about not seeing loved ones after death, this is my way of looking at it: First, times spent with loved ones remain as memories. Memories are thoughts and thoughts emanate out from our brains as low frequency waves similar to radio waves. Those waves do not die. That is science. This I cannot prove, but I wonder, when thinking about loved ones, if our thoughts about them emanating out into the universe, eventually to mingle with the thoughts of our loved ones? I think very possible so. And if the loved one you miss is a parent (as I miss my mother) it's their DNA that made you what you are and in that way they live in you.
Another thing that is true in terms of science is that the atoms and molecules that make up the body also do not die. All the water, air, carbon and minerals of every one who has lived still exists and many of those atoms exist in our own bodies- including those of the saints and those of the most evil. That's a weird thought but not so unsettling if you consider that our minds and bodies have the power to use those atoms and molecules for whatever purpose we choose, be it good or bad. We can utilize Hitler's atoms and molecules toward altruistic purposes or incorporate Jack the Ripper's into working to cure a disease.
Or you can read Ecclesiastes chapter 12 and feel much better about your lost loved ones. The first 5 verses pertain to the aging process getting old. Verses 6 and 7 have to do with your soul (silver cord)(when these clay pots break) returning to God who gave it. When a person dies the flesh body goes back to the dirt or clay whatever you want to say it's made out of back to the Earth. Flesh bodies are temporary. But your spirit body returns to the Father that gave it. And a much nicer place. So your loved ones who have died/passed on, are not out here in a hole in the cold ground. They are with the Father in another dimension that we cannot see at this time. So when you when you die or kick the bucket, pass on you will be there too with the Lord and all the people who you've lost over the years will be there too &; happy to greet you. God has an overall plan that he is ultimately in control of but individuals on an individual basis have free will that's correct. For instance he does not like it when one takes their own life, but if you choose to end your life somehow He's not going to stop you if you choose to jump off a building you're going to go splat. I've already discussed what He says we are supposed to do with murderors and rapists. He Himself isn't going to float down her on a magic carpet every time someone is about to commit a terrible act and hit them in the face with a big stick. That's what we are supposed to have laws and law enforcement for. And as we know accidents happen tree branch can fall on you from the tree on your head and down you go. I totally agree that it's a kind of a sad and wrong answer when people say it was God's plan that somebody died tragically. Flesh bodies are pretty fragile that's why we have to take care of them. Ecclesiastes as a great book in the Bible. Ecclesiastes is basically God's instructions on how to be happy in the flesh. Prayer is a very humbling thing. You have to be patient when asking for things and give things time. It's also wize is too thank Him for whatever blessings you have, before you go asking for things. He does indeed answer prayers. Sometimes not right away. Sometimes a decade will go by before you realize that He did in fact answer your prayer it just took time for you to see it.. Sometimes he won't give you something that you want because He knows that in the long run it would be bad for you. If my kid begs me for a rattlesnake, I'm not going to get it for him, because if you mess with a rattlesnake long enough it will bite you. But if you ask Him to lead guide direct and touch you, He will.
All musical roads lead to PJ. It's kinda like I know I was born and I know I'll die but the in between is mine. He knows the past present and future but not necessarily play by play as our free will affect.
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
If you're like those of us who see religion and God as a form of mythology (which is not a bad thing), but wonder what lies beyond life and worry about not seeing loved ones after death, this is my way of looking at it: First, times spent with loved ones remain as memories. Memories are thoughts and thoughts emanate out from our brains as low frequency waves similar to radio waves. Those waves do not die. That is science. This I cannot prove, but I wonder, when thinking about loved ones, if our thoughts about them emanating out into the universe, eventually to mingle with the thoughts of our loved ones? I think very possible so. And if the loved one you miss is a parent (as I miss my mother) it's their DNA that made you what you are and in that way they live in you.
Another thing that is true in terms of science is that the atoms and molecules that make up the body also do not die. All the water, air, carbon and minerals of every one who has lived still exists and many of those atoms exist in our own bodies- including those of the saints and those of the most evil. That's a weird thought but not so unsettling if you consider that our minds and bodies have the power to use those atoms and molecules for whatever purpose we choose, be it good or bad. We can utilize Hitler's atoms and molecules toward altruistic purposes or incorporate Jack the Ripper's into working to cure a disease.
I was watching a segment with Neil deGrasse Tyson the other day, and when asked about an afterlife, he included this, and I am of course parphrasing in this quote: "I will not get cremated, I will get buried, and the reason is, when you get cremated, your energy, which we know does not go away, as no energy can be destroyed, goes up into the air and eventually into space. When you are buried, your energy gets recycled into the earth by way of the animals and bacteria that are feeding on your decomposing body. I would rather be part of the earth again than be floating out somewhere in space".
The guy is fascinating to listen to. I follow him on Twitter, and read his stuff as much as I can.
That's cool! I've always really liked the story about how writer Edward Abbey told his friend he wanted to be buried in the ground naturally- that is, no cremation, no embalming fluids, no sealed in concrete. So when he died (at home, thank goodness!) his friend put his body in the back of a pick up truck, threw a tarp over him and took him way out "back of beyond" into the Sonoran desert, dug a good hole, buried his body and covered the grave with rocks. His friends have kept this spot a secret all these years (he died in 1989). I told my wife that if I go before her, I want something similar. Of course, that's asking A LOT!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
If you're like those of us who see religion and God as a form of mythology (which is not a bad thing), but wonder what lies beyond life and worry about not seeing loved ones after death, this is my way of looking at it: First, times spent with loved ones remain as memories. Memories are thoughts and thoughts emanate out from our brains as low frequency waves similar to radio waves. Those waves do not die. That is science. This I cannot prove, but I wonder, when thinking about loved ones, if our thoughts about them emanating out into the universe, eventually to mingle with the thoughts of our loved ones? I think very possible so. And if the loved one you miss is a parent (as I miss my mother) it's their DNA that made you what you are and in that way they live in you.
Another thing that is true in terms of science is that the atoms and molecules that make up the body also do not die. All the water, air, carbon and minerals of every one who has lived still exists and many of those atoms exist in our own bodies- including those of the saints and those of the most evil. That's a weird thought but not so unsettling if you consider that our minds and bodies have the power to use those atoms and molecules for whatever purpose we choose, be it good or bad. We can utilize Hitler's atoms and molecules toward altruistic purposes or incorporate Jack the Ripper's into working to cure a disease.
Or you can read Ecclesiastes chapter 12 and feel much better about your lost loved ones. The first 5 verses pertain to the aging process getting old. Verses 6 and 7 have to do with your soul (silver cord)(when these clay pots break) returning to God who gave it. When a person dies the flesh body goes back to the dirt or clay whatever you want to say it's made out of back to the Earth. Flesh bodies are temporary. But your spirit body returns to the Father that gave it. And a much nicer place. So your loved ones who have died/passed on, are not out here in a hole in the cold ground. They are with the Father in another dimension that we cannot see at this time. So when you when you die or kick the bucket, pass on you will be there too with the Lord and all the people who you've lost over the years will be there too &; happy to greet you. God has an overall plan that he is ultimately in control of but individuals on an individual basis have free will that's correct. For instance he does not like it when one takes their own life, but if you choose to end your life somehow He's not going to stop you if you choose to jump off a building you're going to go splat. I've already discussed what He says we are supposed to do with murderors and rapists. He Himself isn't going to float down her on a magic carpet every time someone is about to commit a terrible act and hit them in the face with a big stick. That's what we are supposed to have laws and law enforcement for. And as we know accidents happen tree branch can fall on you from the tree on your head and down you go. I totally agree that it's a kind of a sad and wrong answer when people say it was God's plan that somebody died tragically. Flesh bodies are pretty fragile that's why we have to take care of them. Ecclesiastes as a great book in the Bible. Ecclesiastes is basically God's instructions on how to be happy in the flesh. Prayer is a very humbling thing. You have to be patient when asking for things and give things time. It's also wize is too thank Him for whatever blessings you have, before you go asking for things. He does indeed answer prayers. Sometimes not right away. Sometimes a decade will go by before you realize that He did in fact answer your prayer it just took time for you to see it.. Sometimes he won't give you something that you want because He knows that in the long run it would be bad for you. If my kid begs me for a rattlesnake, I'm not going to get it for him, because if you mess with a rattlesnake long enough it will bite you. But if you ask Him to lead guide direct and touch you, He will.
Ecclesiates is a fine book. Lot's of poetic language. Lovely images of nature among other things. Yes, I've read it. But it does not make me feel better about my lost loved ones. I know their spirits, which I see as the energy produced by their minds, are not in the cold ground but, indeed, are moving out into space. I don't know about any Father there though, but then yes, if The Father = The Universe, then indeed, they are with... it (why is God always described by a male pronoun anyway? Or sometimes female for that matter?) . Other than stars, moon, planets, cosmic dust etc, I don't know of anything else "out there" but I don't find that worrisome at all because it is also infused with our energy as electrical waves that we send out.
Which, by the way, is a good argument for having more good, positive thoughts than bad, negative ones.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Another concept I cant grasp is baptism. I used to be a little uncomfortable during the awkward silence when someone asked me (especially some family) if I was going to or why didn't I get my kids baptized. Now not so much. You could only imagine the answer I gave. So again, to the believers of god why must we baptize? Live and let live.
Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
Another concept I cant grasp is baptism. I used to be a little uncomfortable during the awkward silence when someone asked me (especially some family) if I was going to or why didn't I get my kids baptized. Now not so much. You could only imagine the answer I gave. So again, to the believers of god why must we baptize? Live and let live.
It's a concept I never fully understood. I know it's supposed to symbolize purification or initiation into the church. And it's generally done two ways:
Sprinkling water on a babies head. Are babies impure? I don't think so. Certainly they're not making a decision to join the church.
Or:
Immersion in water. That's just kind of scary to me. Have someone hold my nose and dunk me backwards and face up under water. Sounds a bit too much like... no, I won't even say it. A very strange custom. No thanks. (Been there, done that, never again.)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Another concept I cant grasp is baptism. I used to be a little uncomfortable during the awkward silence when someone asked me (especially some family) if I was going to or why didn't I get my kids baptized. Now not so much. You could only imagine the answer I gave. So again, to the believers of god why must we baptize? Live and let live.
It's a concept I never fully understood. I know it's supposed to symbolize purification or initiation into the church. And it's generally done two ways:
Sprinkling water on a babies head. Are babies impure? I don't think so. Certainly they're not making a decision to join the church.
Or:
Immersion in water. That's just kind of scary to me. Have someone hold my nose and dunk me backwards and face up under water. Sounds a bit too much like... no, I won't even say it. A very strange custom. No thanks. (Been there, done that, never again.)
Hmmmmmmm. Mine was pretty stinky at times. Could have used more than a sprinkling of water.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
Another concept I cant grasp is baptism. I used to be a little uncomfortable during the awkward silence when someone asked me (especially some family) if I was going to or why didn't I get my kids baptized. Now not so much. You could only imagine the answer I gave. So again, to the believers of god why must we baptize? Live and let live.
It's a concept I never fully understood. I know it's supposed to symbolize purification or initiation into the church. And it's generally done two ways:
Sprinkling water on a babies head. Are babies impure? I don't think so. Certainly they're not making a decision to join the church.
Or:
Immersion in water. That's just kind of scary to me. Have someone hold my nose and dunk me backwards and face up under water. Sounds a bit too much like... no, I won't even say it. A very strange custom. No thanks. (Been there, done that, never again.)
Hmmmmmmm. Mine was pretty stinky at times. Could have used more than a sprinkling of water.
I don't think they encourage that kind of baptism in church.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
". this is an honest question: how can he have a plan if he has no control over the situation?
That's a great question and I don't know, none of us ever will till we meet our own death. If God/Jesus is there to greet us or we simply fall asleep and call it done with nothing there, we will never know till our time comes. I believe in it and when my life ends, if I'm wrong will it even matter? But what if it will? It's been great being part of this discussion with you all, it really has. I love it when humans can interact questioning everything in a somewhat civilized conversation "that's becoming rare these days like an old neighborhood being torn down for the next to come around". This is just something none of us will ever know the answer to. I officially bow out, time to get back to living while I still have the chance..... This has been good......
Post edited by Attaway77 on
1998 Dallas (7/5) 2006 San Fran (7/15,7/16) 2009 San Fran (8/28) 2010 Bristow (5/13) NY (5/21) 2011 Alpine Valley (9/3,9/4) 2012 Missoula (9/30) 2013 Chicago (7/19) Pittsburgh (10/11) Buffalo (10/12) Baltimore (10/27) Dallas (11/15) 2014 Austin (10/12) Memphis (10/14) St. Paul (10/19) Milwaukee (10/20) Denver (10/22) 2016 Ft. Lauderdale (4/8) Miami (4/9) Hampton (4/18) Philly (4/28,4/29) NY (5/1,5/2) 2018 Seattle (8/10) Missoula (8/13) 2022 Nashville (9/16) E.V. - 2008 Berkeley (4/8) 2012 Austin (11/9,11/12) Temple of the Dog - 2016 Upper Darby
". this is an honest question: how can he have a plan if he has no control over the situation?
That's a great question and I don't know, none of us ever will till we meet our own death. If God/Jesus is there to greet us or we simply fall asleep and call it done with nothing there, we will never know till our time comes. I believe in it and when my life ends, if I'm wrong will it even matter? But what if it will? It's been great being part of this discussion with you all, it really has. I love it when humans can interact questioning everything in a somewhat civilized conversation "that's becoming rare these days like an old neighborhood being torn down for the next to come around". This is just something none of us will ever know the answer to. I officially bow out, time to get back to living while I still have the chance..... This has been good.....
". this is an honest question: how can he have a plan if he has no control over the situation?
That's a great question and I don't know, none of us ever will till we meet our own death. If God/Jesus is there to greet us or we simply fall asleep and call it done with nothing there, we will never know till our time comes. I believe in it and when my life ends, if I'm wrong will it even matter? But what if it will? It's been great being part of this discussion with you all, it really has. I love it when humans can interact questioning everything in a somewhat civilized conversation "that's becoming rare these days like an old neighborhood being torn down for the next to come around". This is just something none of us will ever know the answer to. I officially bow out, time to get back to living while I still have the chance..... This has been good......
I know none of us know, but I'm asking the opinion of a believer. Do you think god can have both control and give us free will? Do you think god has a plan, or just "god created everything, he lets everything do as it will, and he controls heaven" type of thing?
that is one thing that needed to be said as you did: as long as you aren't hurting anyone with your beliefs, it doesn't matter if you are wrong, as you won't know. Unless of course there is a god and he turns his back on those who didn't believe in this life and they are left in purgatory for all eternity. Then that might kinda suck.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
". this is an honest question: how can he have a plan if he has no control over the situation?
That's a great question and I don't know, none of us ever will till we meet our own death. If God/Jesus is there to greet us or we simply fall asleep and call it done with nothing there, we will never know till our time comes. I believe in it and when my life ends, if I'm wrong will it even matter? But what if it will? It's been great being part of this discussion with you all, it really has. I love it when humans can interact questioning everything in a somewhat civilized conversation "that's becoming rare these days like an old neighborhood being torn down for the next to come around". This is just something none of us will ever know the answer to. I officially bow out, time to get back to living while I still have the chance..... This has been good......
I know none of us know, but I'm asking the opinion of a believer. Do you think god can have both control and give us free will? Do you think god has a plan, or just "god created everything, he lets everything do as it will, and he controls heaven" type of thing?
that is one thing that needed to be said as you did: as long as you aren't hurting anyone with your beliefs, it doesn't matter if you are wrong, as you won't know. Unless of course there is a god and he turns his back on those who didn't believe in this life and they are left in purgatory for all eternity. Then that might kinda suck.
If only this weren't true for fundamentalists of all religions! Fanatical adherence to religions is the root cause of some of the wars throughout history. To fight, kill even, ever something unprovable* and intangible seems insane to me.
*spell check seems to think this is not a word. Yes, no?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
2012 Missoula (9/30) 2013 Chicago (7/19) Pittsburgh (10/11) Buffalo (10/12) Baltimore (10/27) Dallas (11/15)
2014 Austin (10/12) Memphis (10/14) St. Paul (10/19) Milwaukee (10/20) Denver (10/22)
2016 Ft. Lauderdale (4/8) Miami (4/9) Hampton (4/18) Philly (4/28,4/29) NY (5/1,5/2) 2018 Seattle (8/10) Missoula (8/13) 2022 Nashville (9/16)
E.V. - 2008 Berkeley (4/8) 2012 Austin (11/9,11/12)
Temple of the Dog - 2016 Upper Darby
So you care about every statement everyone ever makes, even when it's about something trivial? Good luck to you - you'll be exhausted.
Exhausted? Life does that to ya.
2012 Missoula (9/30) 2013 Chicago (7/19) Pittsburgh (10/11) Buffalo (10/12) Baltimore (10/27) Dallas (11/15)
2014 Austin (10/12) Memphis (10/14) St. Paul (10/19) Milwaukee (10/20) Denver (10/22)
2016 Ft. Lauderdale (4/8) Miami (4/9) Hampton (4/18) Philly (4/28,4/29) NY (5/1,5/2) 2018 Seattle (8/10) Missoula (8/13) 2022 Nashville (9/16)
E.V. - 2008 Berkeley (4/8) 2012 Austin (11/9,11/12)
Temple of the Dog - 2016 Upper Darby
And I'm just the opposite. I would imagine that believing there is something after this where you get to see all your loved ones again would be quite comforting. I find no comfort in thinking I'll never see my family again when they die. I would imagine that atheists are probably the saddest ones at funerals, as there is no "we'll see him again" in our grieving process. My brother seems to find the whole thing beautiful. I've never seen him cry a tear at a funeral. It's like he views it as like a promotion. Like he can't wait to get there too.
I don't think people truly think god is evil. for starters, if they don't believe god exists, they can't think it's evil. second, all they are saying is that if you believe god has power over the human race, but does nothing to get rid of pain and suffering, then yes, I think it is understandable that people question why they'd follow such a being.
however, I think many or most believers just think god created us and gave us free will, hence the whole Noah story. he couldn't control what was happening, so he killed everybody to start fresh. the bible is very clear that god gave man free will. so the "evil god letting shit happen when he could intervene" doesn't really make sense.
however, there are other believers who explain things, usually tragic tihngs, away with "it's god's plan". this is an honest question: how can he have a plan if he has no control over the situation?
www.headstonesband.com
Imagine a worldwide animal extinction (which is eventually inevitable) and imagine the next form of human-like beings inhabiting this planet unearthing a copy of The Lord of the Rings and that this copy of LOTR is the only written documentation ever found of other existence on the planet. No Holy Bibles, no Qu'rans, no Dianetics, etc. Would this new species of humanoids then take the word of J.R.R. Tolkien as gospel? Will they believe the lords and wizards and elves and orcs and trolls and hobbits and dwarves in this book are the beings that inhabited the planet before them? Will they see them as the ones who built the world then destroyed it. Will they worship Gandalf or Sauron or Saruman or Radagast or Aragorn or Isildur as we now worship God, Allah, Buddha, or Horis? Or perhaps they'll worship Tolkien as a "god." Will they calculate the age of the earth based on the timeline of LOTR? Will they see the history of Middle-Earth being that as the former homosapiens' natural history?
If you really think about what religions and the concept of God or gods are, it's really not that far-fetched.
www.headstonesband.com
Another thing that is true in terms of science is that the atoms and molecules that make up the body also do not die. All the water, air, carbon and minerals of every one who has lived still exists and many of those atoms exist in our own bodies- including those of the saints and those of the most evil. That's a weird thought but not so unsettling if you consider that our minds and bodies have the power to use those atoms and molecules for whatever purpose we choose, be it good or bad. We can utilize Hitler's atoms and molecules toward altruistic purposes or incorporate Jack the Ripper's into working to cure a disease.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
The guy is fascinating to listen to. I follow him on Twitter, and read his stuff as much as I can.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
When a person dies the flesh body goes back to the dirt or clay whatever you want to say it's made out of back to the Earth. Flesh bodies are temporary. But your spirit body returns to the Father that gave it. And a much nicer place. So your loved ones who have died/passed on, are not out here in a hole in the cold ground.
They are with the Father in another dimension that we cannot see at this time. So when you when you die or kick the bucket, pass on you will be there too with the Lord and all the people who you've lost over the years will be there too &; happy to greet you.
God has an overall plan that he is ultimately in control of but individuals on an individual basis have free will that's correct. For instance he does not like it when one takes their own life, but if you choose to end your life somehow He's not going to stop you if you choose to jump off a building you're going to go splat. I've already discussed what He says we are supposed to do with murderors and rapists.
He Himself isn't going to float down her on a magic carpet every time someone is about to commit a terrible act and hit them in the face with a big stick. That's what we are supposed to have laws and law enforcement for.
And as we know accidents happen tree branch can fall on you from the tree on your head and down you go. I totally agree that it's a kind of a sad and wrong answer when people say it was God's plan that somebody died tragically.
Flesh bodies are pretty fragile that's why we have to take care of them.
Ecclesiastes as a great book in the Bible.
Ecclesiastes is basically God's instructions on how to be happy in the flesh.
Prayer is a very humbling thing. You have to be patient when asking for things and give things time. It's also wize is too thank Him for whatever blessings you have, before you go asking for things. He does indeed answer prayers. Sometimes not right away. Sometimes a decade will go by before you realize that He did in fact answer your prayer it just took time for you to see it..
Sometimes he won't give you something that you want because He knows that in the long run it would be bad for you.
If my kid begs me for a rattlesnake, I'm not going to get it for him, because if you mess with a rattlesnake long enough it will bite you.
But if you ask Him to lead guide direct and touch you, He will.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Which, by the way, is a good argument for having more good, positive thoughts than bad, negative ones.
You could only imagine the answer I gave.
So again, to the believers of god why must we baptize? Live and let live.
Sprinkling water on a babies head. Are babies impure? I don't think so. Certainly they're not making a decision to join the church.
Or:
Immersion in water. That's just kind of scary to me. Have someone hold my nose and dunk me backwards and face up under water. Sounds a bit too much like... no, I won't even say it. A very strange custom. No thanks. (Been there, done that, never again.)
2012 Missoula (9/30) 2013 Chicago (7/19) Pittsburgh (10/11) Buffalo (10/12) Baltimore (10/27) Dallas (11/15)
2014 Austin (10/12) Memphis (10/14) St. Paul (10/19) Milwaukee (10/20) Denver (10/22)
2016 Ft. Lauderdale (4/8) Miami (4/9) Hampton (4/18) Philly (4/28,4/29) NY (5/1,5/2) 2018 Seattle (8/10) Missoula (8/13) 2022 Nashville (9/16)
E.V. - 2008 Berkeley (4/8) 2012 Austin (11/9,11/12)
Temple of the Dog - 2016 Upper Darby
that is one thing that needed to be said as you did: as long as you aren't hurting anyone with your beliefs, it doesn't matter if you are wrong, as you won't know. Unless of course there is a god and he turns his back on those who didn't believe in this life and they are left in purgatory for all eternity. Then that might kinda suck.
www.headstonesband.com
*spell check seems to think this is not a word. Yes, no?