Kaepernick

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.

His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.

This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.

Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.

Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.

That's not what I've said.

I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?

Well in this case... misdirected.

Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?

Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).

I did. I don't know. Perhaps he doesn't agree with their approach, perhaps he feels it is less a problem with police and more a systemic problem in this country. I am sure he has his reasons and maybe it is money. I don't know.

You keep bringing up Tillman, which I find interesting. I have said a couple times that I strongly believe Tillman would be the first in line defending Kaepernick.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.

His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.

This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.

Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.

Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.

That's not what I've said.

I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?

Well in this case... misdirected.

Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?

Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).

I did. I don't know. Perhaps he doesn't agree with their approach, perhaps he feels it is less a problem with police and more a systemic problem in this country. I am sure he has his reasons and maybe it is money. I don't know.

You keep bringing up Tillman, which I find interesting. I have said a couple times that I strongly believe Tillman would be the first in line defending Kaepernick.

I'm thinking Tillman would have seen the moment as extremely distasteful.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.

His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.

This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.

Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.

Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.

That's not what I've said.

I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?

Well in this case... misdirected.

Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?

Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).

I did. I don't know. Perhaps he doesn't agree with their approach, perhaps he feels it is less a problem with police and more a systemic problem in this country. I am sure he has his reasons and maybe it is money. I don't know.

You keep bringing up Tillman, which I find interesting. I have said a couple times that I strongly believe Tillman would be the first in line defending Kaepernick.

I'm thinking Tillman would have seen the moment as extremely distasteful.

I couldn't disagree more. Tillman was a very critical thinker and his writings said as much (Iraq, Lynch, military training and his fellow soldiers, etc.). Even Kevin's comments since then. While he was very patriotic, he was most definitely not in the "rah rah America" camp. Even if he disagreed with Kaepernick, I think he would very much defend him.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.

His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.

This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.

Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.

Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.

That's not what I've said.

I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?

Well in this case... misdirected.

Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?

Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).

I did. I don't know. Perhaps he doesn't agree with their approach, perhaps he feels it is less a problem with police and more a systemic problem in this country. I am sure he has his reasons and maybe it is money. I don't know.

You keep bringing up Tillman, which I find interesting. I have said a couple times that I strongly believe Tillman would be the first in line defending Kaepernick.

I'm thinking Tillman would have seen the moment as extremely distasteful.

I couldn't disagree more. Tillman was a very critical thinker and his writings said as much (Iraq, Lynch, military training and his fellow soldiers, etc.). Even Kevin's comments since then. While he was very patriotic, he was most definitely not in the "rah rah America" camp. Even if he disagreed with Kaepernick, I think he would very much defend him.

Tillman was deep, however I think he would have seen the moment as self serving at worse and poorly contrived at best. But we speculate here.

Cliffy... you've articulated your position very well. I've done the best I can from my perspective. I disagree with you on the issue, but if it's okay with you... I'll leave my argument where it is. If there's anything I need to do a better job of detailing... let me know and I'll give it another shot.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.

His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.

This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.

Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.

Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.

That's not what I've said.

I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?

Well in this case... misdirected.

Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?

Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).

I did. I don't know. Perhaps he doesn't agree with their approach, perhaps he feels it is less a problem with police and more a systemic problem in this country. I am sure he has his reasons and maybe it is money. I don't know.

You keep bringing up Tillman, which I find interesting. I have said a couple times that I strongly believe Tillman would be the first in line defending Kaepernick.

I'm thinking Tillman would have seen the moment as extremely distasteful.

I couldn't disagree more. Tillman was a very critical thinker and his writings said as much (Iraq, Lynch, military training and his fellow soldiers, etc.). Even Kevin's comments since then. While he was very patriotic, he was most definitely not in the "rah rah America" camp. Even if he disagreed with Kaepernick, I think he would very much defend him.

Tillman was deep, however I think he would have seen the moment as self serving at worse and poorly contrived at best. But we speculate here.

Cliffy... you've articulated your position very well. I've done the best I can from my perspective. I disagree with you on the issue, but if it's okay with you... I'll leave my argument where it is. If there's anything I need to do a better job of detailing... let me know and I'll give it another shot.

Word. A good debate. Likewise on all accounts.

Jason P

Does anyone go to hockey games in the US when O Canada is played and just start fucking off or do you stand for a few minutes in a manner of respect?

(personally i sit in protest because Canadians cheat you out of a 1/2 oz of beer in every can.)

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Jason P said:

Does anyone go to hockey games in the US when O Canada is played and just start fucking off or do you stand for a few minutes in a manner of respect?

(personally i sit in protest because Canadians cheat you out of a 1/2 oz of beer in every can.)

We make up for it with higher alcohol content though.

pjhawks

Jason P said:

Does anyone go to hockey games in the US when O Canada is played and just start fucking off or do you stand for a few minutes in a manner of respect?

(personally i sit in protest because Canadians cheat you out of a 1/2 oz of beer in every can.)

i stand in respect...because Canadian beer is like moonshine

pureoc

Are their social issues that need to be addressed in this country? Yes.

Did CK have the right to sit? Yes

I really wish I could ask 2 people who I know served for our country their thoughts. 1 is my fatherin law who died 4 yrs ago due to complications from lung cancer caused by agent orange exposure in Vietnam. The other is a college buddy and roommate who died 8 yrs ago in Iraq.

Unfortunately I can't and it's why I stand during the national anthem at sporting events. To pay respect. CK doesn't have to, but i lose the little bit of respect I may have had for him because of it.

IMO there is a million better ways to mske your point than a way which could even slightly be viewed as disrespecting those who gave their life for our country.

If he really cares why not go into inner cities and speak to youth, set up meetings with politicians, run for office yourself, or meet with police officials to try and work together. I don't think attention needs to be drawn to the issue, based on recent events Americans are well aware. We need action. That brings change.

HughFreakingDillon

questioning the authenticity of his protest because he isn't making speeches to inner city youth is weak at best. the protest was a way to get attention to the cause. and it might even be less than that. maybe he just didn't feel right inside, standing for it. I don't bow my head during grace at my family dinners. it isn't out of protest. it's because I don't believe in it. and my family should respect my right to not bow my head.

i don't know if part of the cause was attention, but that's not how he presented it after the fact, so we can't go on anything other than what he has publicly stated.

I'm sure he could have afforded a fine if he wanted to put a sticker on his helmet. But his case isn't against the NFL, it's against the state of the nation.

and why give stock to those in uniform who have an issue with his protest, but dismiss those who don't, and openly support his actions? I find that blatantly biased.

I think it's ludicrous to attribute protesting a national anthem with disrespect to those who have served in the military. national anthems are nothing but governmental patriotic indoctrination mechanisms. I have never understood how national anthems got attached to non-international sporting events. it doesn't make any sense to me at all.

from the statement I read, the 49ers front office are firm in their stance of supporting his right to do what he did. Good for them.

HughFreakingDillon

and what I find really interesting is those saying that a guy who has so much money is hypocritical in his stance since he has made so much money "off the backs of those who fought for his freedom to do so". HE IS EXACTLY THE PERSON WHO SHOULD BE DOING IT. To fight for the ones who don't have a voice.

brianlux

Good heavens! I started this last night and already 5 pages. Will have a lot to catch up on here this evening!

Jason P

brianlux said:

Good heavens! I started this last night and already 5 pages. Will have a lot to catch up on here this evening!

See what you have done, mister!

HesCalledDyer

"I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag. I know that I am a black man in a white world."

-Jackie Robinson, I Never Had It Made, 1972

brianlux

Jason P said:

brianlux said:

Good heavens! I started this last night and already 5 pages. Will have a lot to catch up on here this evening!

See what you have done, mister!

We do love our controversies, don't we!

2-feign-reluctance

Degeneratefk said:

I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

It's called slow news day. Also we need something to be pissed off about besides our country's AMAZING presidential candidates.

2-feign-reluctance

Gern Blansten said:

Funny how a guy exercises his right to free speech and some people jump all over him. Bunch of armchair warriors.

Bunch of +60 year olds with Facebook.

dignin

HughFreakingDillon said:

questioning the authenticity of his protest because he isn't making speeches to inner city youth is weak at best. the protest was a way to get attention to the cause. and it might even be less than that. maybe he just didn't feel right inside, standing for it. I don't bow my head during grace at my family dinners. it isn't out of protest. it's because I don't believe in it. and my family should respect my right to not bow my head.

i don't know if part of the cause was attention, but that's not how he presented it after the fact, so we can't go on anything other than what he has publicly stated.

I'm sure he could have afforded a fine if he wanted to put a sticker on his helmet. But his case isn't against the NFL, it's against the state of the nation.

and why give stock to those in uniform who have an issue with his protest, but dismiss those who don't, and openly support his actions? I find that blatantly biased.

I think it's ludicrous to attribute protesting a national anthem with disrespect to those who have served in the military. national anthems are nothing but governmental patriotic indoctrination mechanisms. I have never understood how national anthems got attached to non-international sporting events. it doesn't make any sense to me at all.

from the statement I read, the 49ers front office are firm in their stance of supporting his right to do what he did. Good for them.

Good stuff Hugh.

Free

HughFreakingDillon said:

questioning the authenticity of his protest because he isn't making speeches to inner city youth is weak at best. the protest was a way to get attention to the cause. and it might even be less than that. maybe he just didn't feel right inside, standing for it. I don't bow my head during grace at my family dinners. it isn't out of protest. it's because I don't believe in it. and my family should respect my right to not bow my head.

i don't know if part of the cause was attention, but that's not how he presented it after the fact, so we can't go on anything other than what he has publicly stated.

I'm sure he could have afforded a fine if he wanted to put a sticker on his helmet. But his case isn't against the NFL, it's against the state of the nation.

and why give stock to those in uniform who have an issue with his protest, but dismiss those who don't, and openly support his actions? I find that blatantly biased.

I think it's ludicrous to attribute protesting a national anthem with disrespect to those who have served in the military. national anthems are nothing but governmental patriotic indoctrination mechanisms. I have never understood how national anthems got attached to non-international sporting events. it doesn't make any sense to me at all.

from the statement I read, the 49ers front office are firm in their stance of supporting his right to do what he did. Good for them.

I agree with all of this, esp. bolded.

Things you can do in the NFL & not lose fans:

* rape
* homicide
* assault
* domestic violence
* drugs

Things you can't do:

* sit down during nat'l anthem

Only in 'Murica.

Free

Army veteran Boyer respects Kaepernick's decision

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=17432360