Kaepernick

Cliffy6745

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to you. I guarantee there will be riots if he gets cut. Can already see all of the dumbasses crying that he was "oppressed" or the victim of racism because he got cut for bringing negativity to the team's image. Regardless, it has obviously been a successful protest in that he has gained media attention and started a conversation. I, personally, just think it's totally ridiculous and definitely do not align with his message or methods. I think it will just end with more hate being perpetuated from black and white people alike...I guess time will tell.

So you feel that all people in this country are treated equally and have the same opportunities?

I do not base my feelings on infinitives like "all" or "none" or "everyone" or "everything". I think there are circumstances and choices that lead to positive or negative results. I do not believe that there is some conspiracy that the police force has against black people. Equal opportunity...I lived in a small town growing up and did not have the same or "equal" opportunities that those living in the city had...and vise versa. We all have different standards and beliefs and skills that keep all of us from being treated as "equals" in different aspects of society. I believe this utopian idea that everyone some day will magically live like kings and not face hurdles or hardships or judgement for their actions is completely unrealistic. I also believe that the media and politicians are hyping up racial tensions for higher ratings/votes. I believe that Kaepernick is or will be just another pawn for one of the above.

This is a very narrow view of our society and history

No one is asking for a utopian society

PJPOWER

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

PJPOWER said:

Cliffy6745 said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

The people who fought for him fought for his exact freedom to express his point of view, not for a flag or for a song.

Exactly, and his employer firing him for protesting on their dime is also a great way of expressing their patriotism and point of view

Okay....sure but you have to be "rah rah America" to be a football player?

So you're saying that he's being anti-American? I thought the argument all along was that he is being pro-American "rah rah" by protesting things that he wants to change in America?
Standing for the National Anthem is actually a greater protest on a more global scale in my opinion, but if he wants to sit through it, fine! If they want to fire him for sitting through it, fine! Both are acting within their American rights. Think those supporting him are going to be as understanding of those rights once he is cut from the team?

I don't think he is "anti-American" but he certainly has issues with the country which would take him out of the "rah rah America" camp...

I don't understand how standing through a national anthem can be considered a form of protest. I couldn't care less if he gets cut or not. It's irrelevant.

It's irrelevant to you. I guarantee there will be riots if he gets cut. Can already see all of the dumbasses crying that he was "oppressed" or the victim of racism because he got cut for bringing negativity to the team's image. Regardless, it has obviously been a successful protest in that he has gained media attention and started a conversation. I, personally, just think it's totally ridiculous and definitely do not align with his message or methods. I think it will just end with more hate being perpetuated from black and white people alike...I guess time will tell.

So you feel that all people in this country are treated equally and have the same opportunities?

I do not base my feelings on infinitives like "all" or "none" or "everyone" or "everything". I think there are circumstances and choices that lead to positive or negative results. I do not believe that there is some conspiracy that the police force has against black people. Equal opportunity...I lived in a small town growing up and did not have the same or "equal" opportunities that those living in the city had...and vise versa. We all have different standards and beliefs and skills that keep all of us from being treated as "equals" in different aspects of society. I believe this utopian idea that everyone some day will magically live like kings and not face hurdles or hardships or judgement for their actions is completely unrealistic. I also believe that the media and politicians are hyping up racial tensions for higher ratings/votes. I believe that Kaepernick is or will be just another pawn for one of the above.

This is a very narrow view of our society and history

No one is asking for a utopian society

Narrow view? Narrow view would be basing your feelings on the terms of infinitives such as "all" or "none"...or "no one" as you just stated. "Some" people do have a crazy utopian initiative and others are a bit more realistic.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not religious, but by the same arguments some make here... it would be okay to walk into church wearing a hat, yellow armpit drained white muscle shirt, cut a bunch of farts, and yap incessantly while the pastor tries to issue his sermon?

There's just some things people do out of respect. Are people here thinking Kap is worthy of respect for showing none?

He's been a member of privilege- privileged by the same system he scorned. Pat Tillman walked the walk. If Kap wants to get serious... then walk away from the sport and get busy. He's an idiot. And one of the highest order. Pure and simple.

I don't understand how these two things are at all similar. They are actually the opposite.

Come on, man.

Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.

Empty Glass

I believe Tillman would walk over to the bench and yank Kap off the bench.

Protest black on black crime. Have that stopped. We stop all the inner city violence, I believe we'd have less of these "inequalities"

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not religious, but by the same arguments some make here... it would be okay to walk into church wearing a hat, yellow armpit drained white muscle shirt, cut a bunch of farts, and yap incessantly while the pastor tries to issue his sermon?

There's just some things people do out of respect. Are people here thinking Kap is worthy of respect for showing none?

He's been a member of privilege- privileged by the same system he scorned. Pat Tillman walked the walk. If Kap wants to get serious... then walk away from the sport and get busy. He's an idiot. And one of the highest order. Pure and simple.

I don't understand how these two things are at all similar. They are actually the opposite.

Come on, man.

Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not religious, but by the same arguments some make here... it would be okay to walk into church wearing a hat, yellow armpit drained white muscle shirt, cut a bunch of farts, and yap incessantly while the pastor tries to issue his sermon?

There's just some things people do out of respect. Are people here thinking Kap is worthy of respect for showing none?

He's been a member of privilege- privileged by the same system he scorned. Pat Tillman walked the walk. If Kap wants to get serious... then walk away from the sport and get busy. He's an idiot. And one of the highest order. Pure and simple.

I don't understand how these two things are at all similar. They are actually the opposite.

Come on, man.

Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.

That's such utter nonsense. He very clearly articulated his position on the military.

And again, Pat Tillman would be the first person defending him.

rgambs

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

Is it up to you to tell people how they should perceive the flag and the anthem? Why are they confused? You're argument is that people are too dumb to know the difference. My argument is CK is too dumb to deliver his message.

Didn't he specifically say that he respects the sacrifice of veterans? Then people say it's offensive to veterans and you say he's the one making dumb statements?
Ok!

Cliffy6745

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not religious, but by the same arguments some make here... it would be okay to walk into church wearing a hat, yellow armpit drained white muscle shirt, cut a bunch of farts, and yap incessantly while the pastor tries to issue his sermon?

There's just some things people do out of respect. Are people here thinking Kap is worthy of respect for showing none?

He's been a member of privilege- privileged by the same system he scorned. Pat Tillman walked the walk. If Kap wants to get serious... then walk away from the sport and get busy. He's an idiot. And one of the highest order. Pure and simple.

I don't understand how these two things are at all similar. They are actually the opposite.

Come on, man.

Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.

Utter nonsense

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

lol

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm not religious, but by the same arguments some make here... it would be okay to walk into church wearing a hat, yellow armpit drained white muscle shirt, cut a bunch of farts, and yap incessantly while the pastor tries to issue his sermon?

There's just some things people do out of respect. Are people here thinking Kap is worthy of respect for showing none?

He's been a member of privilege- privileged by the same system he scorned. Pat Tillman walked the walk. If Kap wants to get serious... then walk away from the sport and get busy. He's an idiot. And one of the highest order. Pure and simple.

I don't understand how these two things are at all similar. They are actually the opposite.

Come on, man.

Kap should get behind his beliefs. If you feel that strongly about them... then walk the walk- which Tillman did.

The only think Kap did was spit on the memories of dead young men buried oversead that never had a chance to grow into men... while earning millions of dollars on the backs of their efforts.

Utter nonsense

No kidding eh? I mean... I know his shit behaviour ultimately ended up as some form of support for the cause you've got both feet firmly entrenched in- so objectivity is hardly within reach for you- but you're right... Kap's behaviour was utter nonsense.

Cliffy6745

Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful

Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

lol

Laugh all you want. You're out of your mind if you're thinking Kap came off as admirable.

And really, you shouldn't be surprised at his behaviour. It's well known he's one of the most despised players in the NFL. He's not hated for his political beliefs... he's hated because he's an idiot: which was on full display for this event.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

lol

Laugh all you want. You're out of your mind if you're thinking Kap came off as admirable.

And really, you shouldn't be surprised at his behaviour. It's well known he's one of the most despised players in the NFL. He's not hated for his political beliefs... he's hated because he's an idiot: which was on full display for this event.

I couldn't give half a fuck about the person. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether this is him, Carlos Delgado, a D league basketball player, or any fan in attendance. I am comfortable with any American expressing their beliefs peacefully so long as they can clearly articulate their position and what their goals are and said positions are reasonable.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful

Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful

No. Person number one is highly disrespectful. Is that what your argument is coming to? Suggesting everyone standing for the national anthem isn't paying a moment's respect before the event they've been afforded?

I'm not even from the US. It really isn't even my place to stand and respect the national anthem, but I do and I tell my kids why we do it. It isn't to get behind disappointing, recent foreign policies... it's to acknowledge the grey haired guy in the wheelchair and pay respect.

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

lol

Laugh all you want. You're out of your mind if you're thinking Kap came off as admirable.

And really, you shouldn't be surprised at his behaviour. It's well known he's one of the most despised players in the NFL. He's not hated for his political beliefs... he's hated because he's an idiot: which was on full display for this event.

I couldn't give half a fuck about the person. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether this is him, Carlos Delgado, a D league basketball player, or any fan in attendance. I am comfortable with any American expressing their beliefs peacefully so long as they can clearly articulate their position and what their goals are and said positions are reasonable.

In the proper context... absolutely!

For example, choosing a wake to tell everyone the deceased was a prick would not be a fantastic context to express your beliefs. Just like choosing the national anthem to get behind BLM isn't either.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful

Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful

No. Person number one is highly disrespectful. Is that what your argument is coming to? Suggesting everyone standing for the national anthem isn't paying a moment's respect before the event they've been afforded?

I'm not even from the US. It really isn't even my place to stand and respect the national anthem, but I do and I tell my kids why we do it. It isn't to get behind disappointing, recent foreign policies... it's to acknowledge the grey haired guy in the wheelchair and pay respect.

Ahh, yes, I am suggesting that a good portion of people at every game are standing out of mindless habit..

Except it's not just that. Perhaps that's a portion of it, but it is a tribute to the country and if someone feels that country is not living up to it's standard, be my guest to make your statement.

jeffbr

I didn't even realize Kap was protesting. I thought he was just practicing really hard for his role this upcoming season.

Agree with those who say he has a right to protest, people have a right to criticize and the team has a right to move him from the bench to the street. I personally am not bothered by people not standing, not taking off their hats, not putting their hand over their hearts, not singing, etc... Hell, I usually reserve my singing for the Canadian national anthem during Sounders soccer games when we play Vancouver, Portland or Montreal. I just like the tune better.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Oh my Gawd.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.