Kaepernick

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful

Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful

No. Person number one is highly disrespectful. Is that what your argument is coming to? Suggesting everyone standing for the national anthem isn't paying a moment's respect before the event they've been afforded?

I'm not even from the US. It really isn't even my place to stand and respect the national anthem, but I do and I tell my kids why we do it. It isn't to get behind disappointing, recent foreign policies... it's to acknowledge the grey haired guy in the wheelchair and pay respect.

Ahh, yes, I am suggesting that a good portion of people at every game are standing out of mindless habit..

Except it's not just that. Perhaps that's a portion of it, but it is a tribute to the country and if someone feels that country is not living up to it's standard, be my guest to make your statement.

So... only pay tribute to your country when times are good?

Degeneratefk

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

pjhawks said:

it's a meaningless attention grabbing no substance protest just like BLM. If he wants to make a difference actually do something instead of sitting on a bench.

Personally i think it's disrespectful to the people who fought for him to have the freedoms he has.

See, mr. Gambs? The delivery method is sometimes just as important as the message itself.

I don't see how that quote forwards your argument, in fact, it seems to bolster mine.
CK didn't mention veterans or disrespect them in any way, it is only people who confuse and conflate the flag and anthem with those who served in the military FOR VARIOUS REASONS that are reading too deeply into the issue.

Is it up to you to tell people how they should perceive the flag and the anthem? Why are they confused? You're argument is that people are too dumb to know the difference. My argument is CK is too dumb to deliver his message.

Didn't he specifically say that he respects the sacrifice of veterans? Then people say it's offensive to veterans and you say he's the one making dumb statements?
Ok!

I didn't say he made a dumb statement about the military. I said he was too stupid to deliver his message in a way that he intended.

Cliffy6745

I will also note that I never said he was admirable. I think his cause is real and I think he has every right to express his opinion the way he did. I also don't think he was being mildly disrespectful to anyone in the military, past or present. If you want to take that as admirable, be my guest.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

jeffbr said:

I didn't even realize Kap was protesting. I thought he was just practicing really hard for his role this upcoming season.

Agree with those who say he has a right to protest, people have a right to criticize and the team has a right to move him from the bench to the street. I personally am not bothered by people not standing, not taking off their hats, not putting their hand over their hearts, not singing, etc... Hell, I usually reserve my singing for the Canadian national anthem during Sounders soccer games when we play Vancouver, Portland or Montreal. I just like the tune better.

He's not even going to have that role. He will get cut and I can almost guarantee their won't be a team picking him up.

If he becomes the inspired activist- with all his assets and free time- that he has many believing he is... I'll eat my words. Until such a time, I'll continue to stand behind them (whether right or wrong).

Godfather.

Degeneratefk said:

I just can't believe people give a fuck what a back up qb on a horrible team does.

He's got the right to do that. People have the right to be pjssed. Not really too much to discuss. I think Colin was a bit surprised by how his actions were perceived by the public. It came off as anti-military. I know that's not what he meant, but many people are seeing it that way. I think it may be best for him to stay in the locker room I during the national anthem. Let's be honest, is him sitting during the anthem really going to bring one ounce of awareness to black lives?

agreed ! if the media hadn't mentioned it nobody would have even noticed, this guy to me is just some kid who's enjoying the attention he probably didn't get as a football player.....but I have a feeling his career is winding down anyway.

Godfather.

Degeneratefk

For those of you, like Brian, that live near the bay area, has Kap been vocal about this prior to his statement of injustice? The entire thing seems contrived and insincere and not at all well thought out.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful

Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful

No. Person number one is highly disrespectful. Is that what your argument is coming to? Suggesting everyone standing for the national anthem isn't paying a moment's respect before the event they've been afforded?

I'm not even from the US. It really isn't even my place to stand and respect the national anthem, but I do and I tell my kids why we do it. It isn't to get behind disappointing, recent foreign policies... it's to acknowledge the grey haired guy in the wheelchair and pay respect.

Ahh, yes, I am suggesting that a good portion of people at every game are standing out of mindless habit..

Except it's not just that. Perhaps that's a portion of it, but it is a tribute to the country and if someone feels that country is not living up to it's standard, be my guest to make your statement.

So... only pay tribute to your country when times are good?

I don't know the answer to this, honestly. If someone feels the country is doing a great disservice to a group of people that you identify with, sure, protest as often and as long as you see fit.

I serve on a board that serves underprivileged youth. It is no coincidence that the significant majority of our dollars serve minorities. This is a problem. I am fine with attention being drawn to this problem.

jeffbr

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

jeffbr said:

I didn't even realize Kap was protesting. I thought he was just practicing really hard for his role this upcoming season.

Agree with those who say he has a right to protest, people have a right to criticize and the team has a right to move him from the bench to the street. I personally am not bothered by people not standing, not taking off their hats, not putting their hand over their hearts, not singing, etc... Hell, I usually reserve my singing for the Canadian national anthem during Sounders soccer games when we play Vancouver, Portland or Montreal. I just like the tune better.

He's not even going to have that role. He will get cut and I can almost guarantee their won't be a team picking him up.

If he becomes the inspired activist- with all his assets and free time- that he has many believing he is... I'll eat my words. Until such a time, I'll continue to stand behind them (whether right or wrong).

Oh, I don't believe for a second that Mr. Kaepernick was making any well-thought out statement by sitting. I think he is petulant, and was just trying to call attention to himself, since he wouldn't be able to do that on the football field. It was a last gasp for publicity. Being a Seahawks fan, I've always thought of him as an asshat.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

I will also note that I never said he was admirable. I think his cause is real and I think he has every right to express his opinion the way he did. I also don't think he was being mildly disrespectful to anyone in the military, past or present. If you want to take that as admirable, be my guest.

Well forgive me. You did seem to be saying something about him that wasn't exactly critical.

Is a sports figure center stage the only person with a license to express themselves the way they want? What if half the crowd wants to sit in protest as well? Is anything worthy of a collective level of respect? Or has it simply come down to choices which everyone is free to make for themselves regardless of any circumstances?

rgambs

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Oh my Gawd.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.

No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it".
Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.

dignin

I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

I will also note that I never said he was admirable. I think his cause is real and I think he has every right to express his opinion the way he did. I also don't think he was being mildly disrespectful to anyone in the military, past or present. If you want to take that as admirable, be my guest.

Well forgive me. You did seem to be saying something about him that wasn't exactly critical.

Is a sports figure center stage the only person with a license to express themselves the way they want? What if half the crowd wants to sit in protest as well? Is anything worthy of a collective level of respect? Or has it simply come down to choices which everyone is free to make for themselves regardless of any circumstances?

I already said that I am fine with anyone who has a reasonable issue with something, is able to clearly describe what that issue is, why they feel their actions are important and does so in a peaceful manner.

Degeneratefk

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Oh my Gawd.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.

No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it".
Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.

Even guys with phony patriotism has the same right to criticize. I'm not sure what this argument has turned into.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Oh my Gawd.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.

No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it".
Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.

Tell that to the grey haired guy in the wheelchair watching the event.

jeffbr

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Oh my Gawd.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.

No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it".
Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.

Freedom of speech is something that protects us from government censorship. Don't confuse that with the freedom to do or say anything you want, any time you want, anywhere you want. We don't have that freedom, nor should we. Hell, this place is a good example. You are clearly not allowed to say certain things, and you agree to that when you sign up.

Cliffy6745

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Oh my Gawd.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.

No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it".
Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.

Tell that to the grey haired guy in the wheelchair watching the event.

What about the soliders who are currently enlisted coming to his defense?

Degeneratefk

dignin said:

I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.

I don't know if you follow football, but if you do, you'd know this looks more like one last Stand. His career was effectively over before this.

Cliffy6745

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Oh my Gawd.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.

No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it".
Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.

Even guys with phony patriotism has the same right to criticize. I'm not sure what this argument has turned into.

I was just thinking the same thing

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dignin said:

I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.

His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.

This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.

Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Cliffy6745 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Cliffy6745 said:

“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”

Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.

What was your term? Utter nonsense?

You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.

So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills?
We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?

Oh my Gawd.

I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.

No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it".
Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.

Tell that to the grey haired guy in the wheelchair watching the event.

What about the soliders who are currently enlisted coming to his defense?

What about them?

I'm saying there are many more veterans that looked at that act as disrespectful. And I'm sure many if not most of those veterans recognize and respect the social problem.