This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.
I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.
Godfather.
is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.
this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.
he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.
Godfather.
In what way is this country a mess since he's been elected? Let's use actual measures...
Let's start with unemployment? That has surely gone through the roof? Oh, yeah, right...
How about the GDP? Oh yeah, right....
How about the number of soldiers killed in wars? Oh yeah, right...
How about the number of civilians killed by terrorist attacks? Oh yeah, right...
How about the number of people with health insurance? Oh yeah, right...
Do you propose we look at anything else? Or is this just more of your idiocy?
don't forget america's image. it has drastically improved the world over.
we were not necessarily the most liked of countries when cowboy w and dick were running the show.
you stop threatening people, people start to want to try to like you again.
And believe it or not, violent crime is down...
So, still waiting to hear any details about how awful things are...
Then why all the bitching about guns?
Who is benefiting from all this GDP? Seems like the gap between the rich and poor continues to grow.
The world is getting more destabilized by the day. Britain voted to get out of the EU. Some of the most liberal countries in Europe are closing their boarders.
Liberals complain about everything but at the same time praise Obama about all his accomplishments. They are hollow accomplishments.
you conveniently left out that 5 million brits asked for a do-over vote and that they regret voting to leave. but if it doesn't fit the narrative i can see why.
Fact - You conveniently left out that no matter how many people want a do-over they can't. Liberal on the fence no decision makers made this happen.
no, stupid right wing trumpian politicians made it happen. then they bailed and decided that they did not want to hold major government positions afterward.
What the hell does Trump have to do with a vote in Britain? He's that powerful abroad already?
because the leaders were uneducated blowhards just like trump. they whipped unimformed people up into a tizzy, got them to vote the way they wanted them to vote, and bailed when they found out how hard it would be to lead. the exact same thing trump is doing and will do when things get hard.
What have you accomplished vs what Trump has accomplished? What makes you believe he's uninformed? What makes you think the British folks are uninformed?
Oh, yeah. They don't agree with you. Aren't you a physical therapist? What do you know of world affairs that all those people don't? what is your information based on that theirs isn't? I'm baffled by how educated you are on what other people know.
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
No, it is worse when terrorists in Iraq and Syria don't even need to coordinate the attacks that happen in France and the USA. They are winning.
This is why we need to fight terrorism in the middle east and not bring the fight to the West through migration. Sure 95% won't become terrorists, but that 5% will create more chaos than we will know how to deal with. It happened in France. It happened. It is right in front of our faces yet some of you still deny it.
Ok then you at ready man up join the army marines what have you , or if you have any kids of fighting age have them join and send them over there to fight for your freedom that is being threatened !!
So every time a dictator or occupying force takes over a country the rest of the world is to take all of the migrants from those countries so that we can have all countries destabilized? If you don't want the USA to be the world's police then don't make us the world's largest free hotel.
Are you blind to what is happening in Europe? How is the assimilation going? How is the melting pot going?
This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.
I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.
Godfather.
is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.
this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.
he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.
Godfather.
In what way is this country a mess since he's been elected? Let's use actual measures...
Let's start with unemployment? That has surely gone through the roof? Oh, yeah, right...
How about the GDP? Oh yeah, right....
How about the number of soldiers killed in wars? Oh yeah, right...
How about the number of civilians killed by terrorist attacks? Oh yeah, right...
How about the number of people with health insurance? Oh yeah, right...
Do you propose we look at anything else? Or is this just more of your idiocy?
don't forget america's image. it has drastically improved the world over.
we were not necessarily the most liked of countries when cowboy w and dick were running the show.
you stop threatening people, people start to want to try to like you again.
And believe it or not, violent crime is down...
So, still waiting to hear any details about how awful things are...
Then why all the bitching about guns?
Who is benefiting from all this GDP? Seems like the gap between the rich and poor continues to grow.
The world is getting more destabilized by the day. Britain voted to get out of the EU. Some of the most liberal countries in Europe are closing their boarders.
Liberals complain about everything but at the same time praise Obama about all his accomplishments. They are hollow accomplishments.
you conveniently left out that 5 million brits asked for a do-over vote and that they regret voting to leave. but if it doesn't fit the narrative i can see why.
Fact - You conveniently left out that no matter how many people want a do-over they can't. Liberal on the fence no decision makers made this happen.
no, stupid right wing trumpian politicians made it happen. then they bailed and decided that they did not want to hold major government positions afterward.
What the hell does Trump have to do with a vote in Britain? He's that powerful abroad already?
because the leaders were uneducated blowhards just like trump. they whipped unimformed people up into a tizzy, got them to vote the way they wanted them to vote, and bailed when they found out how hard it would be to lead. the exact same thing trump is doing and will do when things get hard.
What have you accomplished vs what Trump has accomplished? What makes you believe he's uninformed? What makes you think the British folks are uninformed?
Oh, yeah. They don't agree with you. Aren't you a physical therapist? What do you know of world affairs that all those people don't? what is your information based on that theirs isn't? I'm baffled by how educated you are on what other people know.
Drumpf is not uniformed. he watches the shows.
Unbelievable. Almost a Family Guy scene: Peter Griffin interviewed as he runs for president.
Things were not great in 2008 but right now your country and this world is teetering on the edge of disaster.
We're not discussing the world, we are discussing the US. It is neither Obama's or the US's job to run the world. Although I know some will disagree with me on that.
Things were not great in 2008 but right now your country and this world is teetering on the edge of disaster.
We're not discussing the world, we are discussing the US. It is neither Obama's or the US's job to run the world. Although I know some will disagree with me on that.
This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.
I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.
Godfather.
is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.
this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.
he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.
Godfather.
In what way is this country a mess since he's been elected? Let's use actual measures...
Let's start with unemployment? That has surely gone through the roof? Oh, yeah, right...
How about the GDP? Oh yeah, right....
How about the number of soldiers killed in wars? Oh yeah, right...
How about the number of civilians killed by terrorist attacks? Oh yeah, right...
How about the number of people with health insurance? Oh yeah, right...
Do you propose we look at anything else? Or is this just more of your idiocy?
don't forget america's image. it has drastically improved the world over.
we were not necessarily the most liked of countries when cowboy w and dick were running the show.
you stop threatening people, people start to want to try to like you again.
And believe it or not, violent crime is down...
So, still waiting to hear any details about how awful things are...
Then why all the bitching about guns?
Who is benefiting from all this GDP? Seems like the gap between the rich and poor continues to grow.
The world is getting more destabilized by the day. Britain voted to get out of the EU. Some of the most liberal countries in Europe are closing their boarders.
Liberals complain about everything but at the same time praise Obama about all his accomplishments. They are hollow accomplishments.
you conveniently left out that 5 million brits asked for a do-over vote and that they regret voting to leave. but if it doesn't fit the narrative i can see why.
Fact - You conveniently left out that no matter how many people want a do-over they can't. Liberal on the fence no decision makers made this happen.
no, stupid right wing trumpian politicians made it happen. then they bailed and decided that they did not want to hold major government positions afterward.
What the hell does Trump have to do with a vote in Britain? He's that powerful abroad already?
because the leaders were uneducated blowhards just like trump. they whipped unimformed people up into a tizzy, got them to vote the way they wanted them to vote, and bailed when they found out how hard it would be to lead. the exact same thing trump is doing and will do when things get hard.
What have you accomplished vs what Trump has accomplished? What makes you believe he's uninformed? What makes you think the British folks are uninformed?
Oh, yeah. They don't agree with you. Aren't you a physical therapist? What do you know of world affairs that all those people don't? what is your information based on that theirs isn't? I'm baffled by how educated you are on what other people know.
What makes you think a non politician like Trump knows everything about it?
See? I can post strawmen too!
I love the strawman argument. You deem it a strawman, so it is so. Try another cliche.
Anyway, all I was saying was - how can you call him or the Brits uniformed? You may not like the conclusions they draw, but ignorance is a whole other level. In terms of Trump, he's clearly been involved in international business and associated dealings. Whether you think he's a success or not, or like the way he's gone about it, my guess is he is more informed on a lot of this stuff than those of us sitting at home reading shit. Again, whether you like his conclusions based in that knowledge and experience - completely different discussion.
And btw, in case you didn't follow the Trump allusion that Gimme felt the need to make had nothing to do with Brexit. It was just a completely gratuitous shot at someone he doesn't like.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
Actually, you could probably blame Stephen King as much as anyone. I'm not but just sayin. Not that the idea is that original, but he is the most popular writer of our time and just had a best selling trilogy that starts out with this basic premise.
Sure, you could draw lots of links. Which isn't to say that I'm denying there could be a formal link to a terrorist group; just that I'd prefer not to jump to conclusions and give them too much power.
Agree. I was sharing your view. It would be nice if our President took the same approach of not jumping to convenient conclusions with police shootings.
What does Obama have to do with This attack ?
Wow. Internet reading comprehension is really poor. Try reading again. Did not say he did.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
Actually, you could probably blame Stephen King as much as anyone. I'm not but just sayin. Not that the idea is that original, but he is the most popular writer of our time and just had a best selling trilogy that starts out with this basic premise.
Sure, you could draw lots of links. Which isn't to say that I'm denying there could be a formal link to a terrorist group; just that I'd prefer not to jump to conclusions and give them too much power.
Agree. I was sharing your view. It would be nice if our President took the same approach of not jumping to convenient conclusions with police shootings.
What does Obama have to do with This attack ?
Where have you been? Don't you know that President Obama is to blame for everything bad that has ever happened. Back to and including the crufiixtion. D'uh!
Yeah, he's to blame for republican majority congress but democrat congress is to blame for whatever some white republican 8 years before him did. I wonder why.
And to the "wait and see" crowd as to whether this was a terrorist attack: get your heads out of the sand. Someone kills 80 plus people with a truck and shoots at police in France and we get the whole 'slow down, this could just be someone who is depressed' talk. It really is telling how much in denial some are.
And to the "wait and see" crowd as to whether this was a terrorist attack: get your heads out of the sand. Someone kills 80 plus people with a truck and shoots at police in France and we get the whole 'slow down, this could just be someone who is depressed' talk. It really is telling how much in denial some are.
No, actually I believe the fact that people are so quick to jump to the terrorist explanation is a very telling and sad reflection of how people have come to assume that any Muslim that commits murder must have done so in the name of Islamic jihad
And to the "wait and see" crowd as to whether this was a terrorist attack: get your heads out of the sand. Someone kills 80 plus people with a truck and shoots at police in France and we get the whole 'slow down, this could just be someone who is depressed' talk. It really is telling how much in denial some are.
No, actually I believe the fact that people are so quick to jump to the terrorist explanation is a very telling and sad reflection of how people have come to assume that any Muslim that commits murder must have done so in the name of Islamic jihad
No. People quickly jump to that explanation because it is always the case. Any muslim that commits murder hasn't done it for any other reason that I can think of. Can you?
And to the "wait and see" crowd as to whether this was a terrorist attack: get your heads out of the sand. Someone kills 80 plus people with a truck and shoots at police in France and we get the whole 'slow down, this could just be someone who is depressed' talk. It really is telling how much in denial some are.
No, actually I believe the fact that people are so quick to jump to the terrorist explanation is a very telling and sad reflection of how people have come to assume that any Muslim that commits murder must have done so in the name of Islamic jihad
No. People quickly jump to that explanation because it is always the case. Any muslim that commits murder hasn't done it for any other reason that I can think of. Can you?
Are you fucking taking the piss? I don't know why I persist in responding to your trolling but come on!
And to the "wait and see" crowd as to whether this was a terrorist attack: get your heads out of the sand. Someone kills 80 plus people with a truck and shoots at police in France and we get the whole 'slow down, this could just be someone who is depressed' talk. It really is telling how much in denial some are.
No, actually I believe the fact that people are so quick to jump to the terrorist explanation is a very telling and sad reflection of how people have come to assume that any Muslim that commits murder must have done so in the name of Islamic jihad
Maybe if a Muslim murdered a clerk at a gas station or a cheating spouse, but not 80+ people with a truck. Head...in...sand...
And to the "wait and see" crowd as to whether this was a terrorist attack: get your heads out of the sand. Someone kills 80 plus people with a truck and shoots at police in France and we get the whole 'slow down, this could just be someone who is depressed' talk. It really is telling how much in denial some are.
No, actually I believe the fact that people are so quick to jump to the terrorist explanation is a very telling and sad reflection of how people have come to assume that any Muslim that commits murder must have done so in the name of Islamic jihad
No. People quickly jump to that explanation because it is always the case. Any muslim that commits murder hasn't done it for any other reason that I can think of. Can you?
Are you fucking taking the piss? I don't know why I persist in responding to your trolling but come on!
Typically it takes 2-3 days for the head in the sand people to realize what was being told to them was correct. http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/france-truck-attacker-may-have-become-radicalized-officials-1.2990215 There is mounting evidence that Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, the Tunisian-born truck driver responsible for the deadly carnage in Nice last week, had recently absorbed extremist ideas and had become radicalized, French authorities said Sunday.
And to the "wait and see" crowd as to whether this was a terrorist attack: get your heads out of the sand. Someone kills 80 plus people with a truck and shoots at police in France and we get the whole 'slow down, this could just be someone who is depressed' talk. It really is telling how much in denial some are.
No, actually I believe the fact that people are so quick to jump to the terrorist explanation is a very telling and sad reflection of how people have come to assume that any Muslim that commits murder must have done so in the name of Islamic jihad
Gee.
You can keep holding your breath waiting for another motive if you wish, but for most of us... it's a pretty safe assumption these days.
It is sad that Muslim terrorists have become synonymous with mass murder.
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
Actually, you could probably blame Stephen King as much as anyone. I'm not but just sayin. Not that the idea is that original, but he is the most popular writer of our time and just had a best selling trilogy that starts out with this basic premise.
Sure, you could draw lots of links. Which isn't to say that I'm denying there could be a formal link to a terrorist group; just that I'd prefer not to jump to conclusions and give them too much power.
Agree. I was sharing your view. It would be nice if our President took the same approach of not jumping to convenient conclusions with police shootings.
What does Obama have to do with This attack ?
Where have you been? Don't you know that President Obama is to blame for everything bad that has ever happened. Back to and including the crufiixtion. D'uh!
Well, he is the Marxist, Leninist, communist, Muslim anti-Christ. Anti before there was an anti.
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
Actually, you could probably blame Stephen King as much as anyone. I'm not but just sayin. Not that the idea is that original, but he is the most popular writer of our time and just had a best selling trilogy that starts out with this basic premise.
Sure, you could draw lots of links. Which isn't to say that I'm denying there could be a formal link to a terrorist group; just that I'd prefer not to jump to conclusions and give them too much power.
Agree. I was sharing your view. It would be nice if our President took the same approach of not jumping to convenient conclusions with police shootings.
What does Obama have to do with This attack ?
Where have you been? Don't you know that President Obama is to blame for everything bad that has ever happened. Back to and including the crufiixtion. D'uh!
Well, he is the Marxist, Leninist, communist, Muslim anti-Christ. Anti before there was an anti.
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
No, it is worse when terrorists in Iraq and Syria don't even need to coordinate the attacks that happen in France and the USA. They are winning.
This is why we need to fight terrorism in the middle east and not bring the fight to the West through migration. Sure 95% won't become terrorists, but that 5% will create more chaos than we will know how to deal with. It happened in France. It happened. It is right in front of our faces yet some of you still deny it.
Ok then you at ready man up join the army marines what have you , or if you have any kids of fighting age have them join and send them over there to fight for your freedom that is being threatened !!
So every time a dictator or occupying force takes over a country the rest of the world is to take all of the migrants from those countries so that we can have all countries destabilized? If you don't want the USA to be the world's police then don't make us the world's largest free hotel.
Are you blind to what is happening in Europe? How is the assimilation going? How is the melting pot going?
Ok so tell us what do you propose we do ? I agree with the premise we should stop putting our noses in other country's problems including Israel the world is in the shape that it is because of one Giant factor that should never be forgotten the mighty USA is responsible for the destabilization of that region .....
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
No, it is worse when terrorists in Iraq and Syria don't even need to coordinate the attacks that happen in France and the USA. They are winning.
This is why we need to fight terrorism in the middle east and not bring the fight to the West through migration. Sure 95% won't become terrorists, but that 5% will create more chaos than we will know how to deal with. It happened in France. It happened. It is right in front of our faces yet some of you still deny it.
Ok then you at ready man up join the army marines what have you , or if you have any kids of fighting age have them join and send them over there to fight for your freedom that is being threatened !!
So every time a dictator or occupying force takes over a country the rest of the world is to take all of the migrants from those countries so that we can have all countries destabilized? If you don't want the USA to be the world's police then don't make us the world's largest free hotel.
Are you blind to what is happening in Europe? How is the assimilation going? How is the melting pot going?
Ok so tell us what do you propose we do ? I agree with the premise we should stop putting our noses in other country's problems including Israel the world is in the shape that it is because of one Giant factor that should never be forgotten the mighty USA is responsible for the destabilization of that region .....
The USA's involvement in the past is what it is. I'm not denying it and we can't change the past.
Obviously this is a message board and I am not a foreign policy expert just like all of us here. I don't trust that these countries can free themselves on their own from evil dictators or a chaotic power structure. If anything Iraq was a much more stable government comparatively and once the US left ISIS took over quickly, so I don't have much faith in Libya and Syria. I think we probably left 50-75 years too early in Baghdad (trust me, I wish that wasn't the case). I've said in other threads but these countries need a generation or two of people who go to school for 10-15 years, have access to the internet, have equal treatment between men and women, have a sustained period of relative peace, etc... Education is the only way that they can stop the cycle they are in over there and to get that education they need a government that doesn't fear it. To get that education the West may need to spend 50 years trying to provide as peaceful an environment as possible so that hopefully after 50 years there is a local government in place full of educated people who see that there is no place for religious factions and terrorism.
Obviously this idea has many issues. #1 Having enough people to fight in multiple countries. I think we've seen the armies/dictators are relatively easy to get rid of but the aftermath is the deadly part. #2 The west will be seen as occupiers. Hopefully though after 50 years if the West in sincere in helping that perception will go away. #3 buy in from the world. This will need buy-in from Russia, China, IRan, Saudi Arabia (obviously difficult). Many, many, many other issues exist. Obviously this is no guarantee of success.
My point is this: If we can't trust Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey to help stabilize Syria, Libya, and Iraq if the West leaves, then I don't think these countries can stabilize themselves (at least to a place where the treatment of the average citizen isn't despicable). The answer isn't bring all of these refugees into Europe where the infrastructure is not there, but to help them live in the country they want to live in (where they were born). So, perhaps the answer I am suggesting is we send in troops (try to build the biggest damn coalition ever) and take out Assad and setup safe cities for 50-75 years to allow some semblance of democracy or peaceful government to take form so that we are confident when we leave in 75 years that things won't devolve.
Sorry, long incoherent post but don't have a ton of time. But my question back to you is how do you think Syria and Libya can become a stable country again? Maybe I am making too much of the dictators and terrorists there, but if the West leaves and all the refugees leave too, then how does Syria fix itself? How is the cycle of violence stopped? Do we just wait and hope and just let everyone immigrate to Europe or North America when things get bad?
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
No, it is worse when terrorists in Iraq and Syria don't even need to coordinate the attacks that happen in France and the USA. They are winning.
This is why we need to fight terrorism in the middle east and not bring the fight to the West through migration. Sure 95% won't become terrorists, but that 5% will create more chaos than we will know how to deal with. It happened in France. It happened. It is right in front of our faces yet some of you still deny it.
Ok then you at ready man up join the army marines what have you , or if you have any kids of fighting age have them join and send them over there to fight for your freedom that is being threatened !!
So every time a dictator or occupying force takes over a country the rest of the world is to take all of the migrants from those countries so that we can have all countries destabilized? If you don't want the USA to be the world's police then don't make us the world's largest free hotel.
Are you blind to what is happening in Europe? How is the assimilation going? How is the melting pot going?
Ok so tell us what do you propose we do ? I agree with the premise we should stop putting our noses in other country's problems including Israel the world is in the shape that it is because of one Giant factor that should never be forgotten the mighty USA is responsible for the destabilization of that region .....
The USA's involvement in the past is what it is. I'm not denying it and we can't change the past.
Obviously this is a message board and I am not a foreign policy expert just like all of us here. I don't trust that these countries can free themselves on their own from evil dictators or a chaotic power structure. If anything Iraq was a much more stable government comparatively and once the US left ISIS took over quickly, so I don't have much faith in Libya and Syria. I think we probably left 50-75 years too early in Baghdad (trust me, I wish that wasn't the case). I've said in other threads but these countries need a generation or two of people who go to school for 10-15 years, have access to the internet, have equal treatment between men and women, have a sustained period of relative peace, etc... Education is the only way that they can stop the cycle they are in over there and to get that education they need a government that doesn't fear it. To get that education the West may need to spend 50 years trying to provide as peaceful an environment as possible so that hopefully after 50 years there is a local government in place full of educated people who see that there is no place for religious factions and terrorism.
Obviously this idea has many issues. #1 Having enough people to fight in multiple countries. I think we've seen the armies/dictators are relatively easy to get rid of but the aftermath is the deadly part. #2 The west will be seen as occupiers. Hopefully though after 50 years if the West in sincere in helping that perception will go away. #3 buy in from the world. This will need buy-in from Russia, China, IRan, Saudi Arabia (obviously difficult). Many, many, many other issues exist. Obviously this is no guarantee of success.
My point is this: If we can't trust Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey to help stabilize Syria, Libya, and Iraq if the West leaves, then I don't think these countries can stabilize themselves (at least to a place where the treatment of the average citizen isn't despicable). The answer isn't bring all of these refugees into Europe where the infrastructure is not there, but to help them live in the country they want to live in (where they were born). So, perhaps the answer I am suggesting is we send in troops (try to build the biggest damn coalition ever) and take out Assad and setup safe cities for 50-75 years to allow some semblance of democracy or peaceful government to take form so that we are confident when we leave in 75 years that things won't devolve.
Sorry, long incoherent post but don't have a ton of time. But my question back to you is how do you think Syria and Libya can become a stable country again? Maybe I am making too much of the dictators and terrorists there, but if the West leaves and all the refugees leave too, then how does Syria fix itself? How is the cycle of violence stopped? Do we just wait and hope and just let everyone immigrate to Europe or North America when things get bad?
Hey I hear you on everything but what I know is that more aggression by the USA will only lead to more of what we have now we can't change those country's to be models of our ways of life but all im hearing over at GOP convention is the war drums beating !
I guess we gave up on thread integrity a long time ago
What did you want for integrity of this thread? Root causes? Perhaps a conversation why this happened? What?
Well I don't know why it's turned into a discussion on Obama! FFS right now the information indicates that the perpetrator in Nice was mentally ill and on medication. Just because he was a Muslim everyone has decided this attack should become part of the big conversation on what to do about radical Islam. How about you have that discussion on a thread where it is more clearly relevant? This thread was created to discuss events in Nice, no?
Unless the PM has info he's not sharing with us, then to me it seemed like a premature and ill-advised link to make. If it turns out to be true, then fine but I want actual facts and evidence
You will never get this and will always be asking that question unless you make up your mind.
Make up my mind about what? What are you on about? Like any rational person, I don't jump to quick judgements until I have all the facts
Well here are two facts. The "events" in Nice are linked to radical Islam. and you don't see this
People can make links and draw conclusions all they like but that doesn't necessarily make them valid. The facts we have suggest that the attacker was a man with a history of violence, both within the family and with strangers. He has a conviction for a violent offence. There is no evidence that he was affiliated with or directed by any radical groups, and none have claimed responsibility (I hate to call it "credit") for the attack. Driving a truck into a crowd of people is not a sophisticated attack that requires coordination or planning. Ar this point he appears to be a violent guy who seized on an opportunity to commit violence on a massive scale, but that doesn't make this an ISIS-led terrorist attack. To assume it does gives them too much credit and feeds the terror machine, the fears of world-wide annihilation. They would be very pleased by that.
No, it is worse when terrorists in Iraq and Syria don't even need to coordinate the attacks that happen in France and the USA. They are winning.
This is why we need to fight terrorism in the middle east and not bring the fight to the West through migration. Sure 95% won't become terrorists, but that 5% will create more chaos than we will know how to deal with. It happened in France. It happened. It is right in front of our faces yet some of you still deny it.
Ok then you at ready man up join the army marines what have you , or if you have any kids of fighting age have them join and send them over there to fight for your freedom that is being threatened !!
Ok so tell us what do you propose we do ? I agree with the premise we should stop putting our noses in other country's problems including Israel the world is in the shape that it is because of one Giant factor that should never be forgotten the mighty USA is responsible for the destabilization of that region .....
The USA's involvement in the past is what it is. I'm not denying it and we can't change the past.
Obviously this is a message board and I am not a foreign policy expert just like all of us here. I don't trust that these countries can free themselves on their own from evil dictators or a chaotic power structure. If anything Iraq was a much more stable government comparatively and once the US left ISIS took over quickly, so I don't have much faith in Libya and Syria. I think we probably left 50-75 years too early in Baghdad (trust me, I wish that wasn't the case). I've said in other threads but these countries need a generation or two of people who go to school for 10-15 years, have access to the internet, have equal treatment between men and women, have a sustained period of relative peace, etc... Education is the only way that they can stop the cycle they are in over there and to get that education they need a government that doesn't fear it. To get that education the West may need to spend 50 years trying to provide as peaceful an environment as possible so that hopefully after 50 years there is a local government in place full of educated people who see that there is no place for religious factions and terrorism.
Obviously this idea has many issues. #1 Having enough people to fight in multiple countries. I think we've seen the armies/dictators are relatively easy to get rid of but the aftermath is the deadly part. #2 The west will be seen as occupiers. Hopefully though after 50 years if the West in sincere in helping that perception will go away. #3 buy in from the world. This will need buy-in from Russia, China, IRan, Saudi Arabia (obviously difficult). Many, many, many other issues exist. Obviously this is no guarantee of success.
My point is this: If we can't trust Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey to help stabilize Syria, Libya, and Iraq if the West leaves, then I don't think these countries can stabilize themselves (at least to a place where the treatment of the average citizen isn't despicable). The answer isn't bring all of these refugees into Europe where the infrastructure is not there, but to help them live in the country they want to live in (where they were born). So, perhaps the answer I am suggesting is we send in troops (try to build the biggest damn coalition ever) and take out Assad and setup safe cities for 50-75 years to allow some semblance of democracy or peaceful government to take form so that we are confident when we leave in 75 years that things won't devolve.
Sorry, long incoherent post but don't have a ton of time. But my question back to you is how do you think Syria and Libya can become a stable country again? Maybe I am making too much of the dictators and terrorists there, but if the West leaves and all the refugees leave too, then how does Syria fix itself? How is the cycle of violence stopped? Do we just wait and hope and just let everyone immigrate to Europe or North America when things get bad?
Would you be comfortable with a $3.00 per gallon war tax and a draft of both sexes to fund and staff such a commitment? But I'd start with getting the republicans to confirm Obama's number two at treasury, you know, the guy who goes after terrorist funding sources and follows the money. I'd also start with telling the Saudis to shut it down because their chickens are coming home to roost. The US getting into the middle of the Shia/Sunni divide ain't going to help matters. Where's the Iran thread and I wonder if Bibi has a prime time speaking slot at the GOP convention?
Well, the answer isn't for the West to take all of the refugees either. Ask Europe how that is working out for them.
I really haven't seen any news whatsoever about how taking in legitimate Syrian refugees after a rigorous screening process has harmed anyone or any country.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well, the answer isn't for the West to take all of the refugees either. Ask Europe how that is working out for them.
I really haven't seen any news whatsoever about how taking in legitimate Syrian refugees after a rigorous screening process has harmed anyone or any country.
Well, the answer isn't for the West to take all of the refugees either. Ask Europe how that is working out for them.
I really haven't seen any news whatsoever about how taking in legitimate Syrian refugees after a rigorous screening process has harmed anyone or any country.
Have you been paying attention to Halifax?
What, the school thing? I don't actually think that means anything in the context of this conversation. That is just a matter of administration, and it isn't something that will have a long term impact - it's a temporary issue of making room for refugee children in schools, which to me is noble. Those children may very well have died in refugee camps if they hadn't been brought to Canada. We're talking about terrorism here (btw, there are also a lot of really nice stories about refugees in Halifax - how they have helped people, etc).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Well, the answer isn't for the West to take all of the refugees either. Ask Europe how that is working out for them.
I really haven't seen any news whatsoever about how taking in legitimate Syrian refugees after a rigorous screening process has harmed anyone or any country.
Have you been paying attention to Halifax?
What, the school thing? I don't actually think that means anything in the context of this conversation. That is just a matter of administration, and it isn't something that will have a long term impact - it's a temporary issue of making room for refugee children in schools, which to me is noble. Those children may very well have died in refugee camps if they hadn't been brought to Canada. We're talking about terrorism here (btw, there are also a lot of really nice stories about refugees in Halifax - how they have helped people, etc).
Ok. Just a temporary issue. A problem of administration. That's what they said about certain neighbourhoods in Belgium and France.
Well, the answer isn't for the West to take all of the refugees either. Ask Europe how that is working out for them.
I really haven't seen any news whatsoever about how taking in legitimate Syrian refugees after a rigorous screening process has harmed anyone or any country.
So you think the problems in Europe right now wouldn't exist if there was proper screening? Everyone focuses on the migrants but what about the second generation? That generation seems to be the ones committee terror attacks in the USA and Europe.
Well, the answer isn't for the West to take all of the refugees either. Ask Europe how that is working out for them.
I really haven't seen any news whatsoever about how taking in legitimate Syrian refugees after a rigorous screening process has harmed anyone or any country.
So you think the problems in Europe right now wouldn't exist if there was proper screening? Everyone focuses on the migrants but what about the second generation? That generation seems to be the ones committee terror attacks in the USA and Europe.
There are plenty of problems within some Muslim communities, and disenfranchised second generation Muslims turning to extremism is one of those problems. Only an idiot would try and deny that. But I argue that not helping refugees is not the solution, and neither is encouraging widespread intolerance towards Muslims in general. I definitely do not think that helping these refugees is contributing to terrorism.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Are you blind to what is happening in Europe? How is the assimilation going? How is the melting pot going?
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Anyway, all I was saying was - how can you call him or the Brits uniformed? You may not like the conclusions they draw, but ignorance is a whole other level. In terms of Trump, he's clearly been involved in international business and associated dealings. Whether you think he's a success or not, or like the way he's gone about it, my guess is he is more informed on a lot of this stuff than those of us sitting at home reading shit. Again, whether you like his conclusions based in that knowledge and experience - completely different discussion.
And btw, in case you didn't follow the Trump allusion that Gimme felt the need to make had nothing to do with Brexit. It was just a completely gratuitous shot at someone he doesn't like.
People quickly jump to that explanation because it is always the case.
Any muslim that commits murder hasn't done it for any other reason that I can think of. Can you?
There is mounting evidence that Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, the Tunisian-born truck driver responsible for the deadly carnage in Nice last week, had recently absorbed extremist ideas and had become radicalized, French authorities said Sunday.
You can keep holding your breath waiting for another motive if you wish, but for most of us... it's a pretty safe assumption these days.
It is sad that Muslim terrorists have become synonymous with mass murder.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Obviously this is a message board and I am not a foreign policy expert just like all of us here. I don't trust that these countries can free themselves on their own from evil dictators or a chaotic power structure. If anything Iraq was a much more stable government comparatively and once the US left ISIS took over quickly, so I don't have much faith in Libya and Syria. I think we probably left 50-75 years too early in Baghdad (trust me, I wish that wasn't the case). I've said in other threads but these countries need a generation or two of people who go to school for 10-15 years, have access to the internet, have equal treatment between men and women, have a sustained period of relative peace, etc... Education is the only way that they can stop the cycle they are in over there and to get that education they need a government that doesn't fear it. To get that education the West may need to spend 50 years trying to provide as peaceful an environment as possible so that hopefully after 50 years there is a local government in place full of educated people who see that there is no place for religious factions and terrorism.
Obviously this idea has many issues. #1 Having enough people to fight in multiple countries. I think we've seen the armies/dictators are relatively easy to get rid of but the aftermath is the deadly part. #2 The west will be seen as occupiers. Hopefully though after 50 years if the West in sincere in helping that perception will go away. #3 buy in from the world. This will need buy-in from Russia, China, IRan, Saudi Arabia (obviously difficult). Many, many, many other issues exist. Obviously this is no guarantee of success.
My point is this:
If we can't trust Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey to help stabilize Syria, Libya, and Iraq if the West leaves, then I don't think these countries can stabilize themselves (at least to a place where the treatment of the average citizen isn't despicable). The answer isn't bring all of these refugees into Europe where the infrastructure is not there, but to help them live in the country they want to live in (where they were born). So, perhaps the answer I am suggesting is we send in troops (try to build the biggest damn coalition ever) and take out Assad and setup safe cities for 50-75 years to allow some semblance of democracy or peaceful government to take form so that we are confident when we leave in 75 years that things won't devolve.
Sorry, long incoherent post but don't have a ton of time. But my question back to you is how do you think Syria and Libya can become a stable country again? Maybe I am making too much of the dictators and terrorists there, but if the West leaves and all the refugees leave too, then how does Syria fix itself? How is the cycle of violence stopped? Do we just wait and hope and just let everyone immigrate to Europe or North America when things get bad?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©