Another Attack in France (Nice)

PJ_Soul

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

One word for the pro-refugee crowd: Europe.

You clearly don't understand the differences between the refugee programs

Not to mention the circumstances.

bootlegger10

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

One word for the pro-refugee crowd: Europe.

You clearly don't understand the differences between the refugee programs

You can't screen for the next generation that are largely committing the attacks in Europe.

Cliffy6745

bootlegger10 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

One word for the pro-refugee crowd: Europe.

You clearly don't understand the differences between the refugee programs

You can't screen for the next generation that are largely committing the attacks in Europe.

So you are saying they get radicalized after they get here if we are talking about second generation? None of the people committing the attacks in Europe would be admitted to the US.

bootlegger10

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

One word for the pro-refugee crowd: Europe.

You clearly don't understand the differences between the refugee programs

You can't screen for the next generation that are largely committing the attacks in Europe.

So you are saying they get radicalized after they get here if we are talking about second generation? None of the people committing the attacks in Europe would be admitted to the US.

Yes. Some are. If the next generations are not assimilating well there are multiple issues to consider: potential radicalization, poverty, crime, costs for provide health services, political unrest etc.... This is happening in Europe . Brexit is a perfect example of a byproduct of uncontrolled immigration and lack of assimilation. It started before the refugee crisis even. Several years ago France had large riots a few years in a row due to lack of jobs. There were large riots outside of Stockholm several years ago. French/Belgium nationals (next generation) committed the terrorist attacks in Paris last November. The San Bernardino, Boston Bombing, and Orlando attacks were all next generation or children at the time they came to the US.

Cliffy6745

bootlegger10 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

bootlegger10 said:

One word for the pro-refugee crowd: Europe.

You clearly don't understand the differences between the refugee programs

You can't screen for the next generation that are largely committing the attacks in Europe.

So you are saying they get radicalized after they get here if we are talking about second generation? None of the people committing the attacks in Europe would be admitted to the US.

Yes. Some are. If the next generations are not assimilating well there are multiple issues to consider: potential radicalization, poverty, crime, costs for provide health services, political unrest etc.... This is happening in Europe . Brexit is a perfect example of a byproduct of uncontrolled immigration and lack of assimilation. It started before the refugee crisis even. Several years ago France had large riots a few years in a row due to lack of jobs. There were large riots outside of Stockholm several years ago. French/Belgium nationals (next generation) committed the terrorist attacks in Paris last November. The San Bernardino, Boston Bombing, and Orlando attacks were all next generation or children at the time they came to the US.

So you really just want to just ban an entire religion from coming to the U.S forever? If that's the case, there's no point in having a debate about this.

Who has ever recommended uncontrolled immigration?

Again, you do not understand the differences between the Europe refugee situation and the U.S refugee guidelines and how many people are admitted. If you did understand it, you would be using the word immigration rather than refugee.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Three attacks in Germany in one week by Syrian refugees. The most recent- a backpack bomb outside a music festival.

Just a way of life now it seems.

jnimhaoileoin

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Three attacks in Germany in one week by Syrian refugees. The most recent- a backpack bomb outside a music festival.

Just a way of life now it seems.

Just a minor correction, 2 were Syrian, one was Afghan. You are correct in that they were refugees though

PJ_Soul

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?

Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?

PJ_Soul

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?

Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?

Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.

lukin2006

.

PJ_Soul

Are you guys serious? What do expect these countries to do when there are all these refugees flooding their borders (most of whom legitimately need help)??? I do agree that the Middle Eastern nations need to feel more pressure to step up........ if they are willing. But the thing is that those nations are not inclined to help the international community or the refugees, and even if they were, some of them would be in no position to help anyway. Many refugees would be going from a war zone into another place where they will be oppressed and persecuted, depending on the nation. But anyway, the reality is that refugees are flooding into Europe in insane numbers, rich Middle Eastern nations are not doing enough, and what "should" be done often has nothing to do with what can be done now. I'm thinking you guys don't have a firm grasp of the reality of the situation if you think these alternative solutions are realistic right now. The things you're suggesting are long-term notions that don't help in the here and now.

lukin2006

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.

PJ_Soul

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.

Just answered.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.

Just answered.

Actually, you never answered the question. I'm not sure the correct response to the crisis is opening the door because they've shown up. Germany's mistakes are its own.

Canada's efforts are a drop in the bucket- let's not pat ourselves on the back too eagerly. With that said, I'm not sure where we should be at with regards to policy.

Helping Syrians in Syria might have been the best solution, but doing that invites a whole slate of other problems so... what to do?

PJ_Soul

I think I did answer his question.
I am not patting anything or anyone on the back at all and I never even brought Canada up. I am also not actually just talking about taking in refugees like Canada did and maybe will. Taking in refugees with rigorous screening like that should be a part of it for sure, since some of these folks just need places to go, and be it a drip or a drop, that some of the refugees who are deemed to be "appropriate" candidates can start new lives in countries where there isn't war, terrible oppression of women, and a ruling theocracy or some bastardization of such is a rather wonderful thing. But I am actually more talking about other kinds of help. Administrative help at their borders. Sheer manpower and dollars to help with these refugees in the short term as they figure out what to do with them. People and funding to set up refugee centers in Greece and Germany and elsewhere, pressure on Hungary to stop doing what it's doing and an offer to help them handle the refugees at their border in a more useful and humanitarian way, shit like that. And much more help from the international community when it comes to the refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordon, etc. Many of the refugees can't stay in those places because the refugee camps are in such poor condition that just living in them is killing the refugees. There is no medical care at these camps, not enough food, not enough shelter, not enough blankets, not enough anything.

BS44325

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?

Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?

Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.

Always just an "administrative" issue.

PJ_Soul

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?

Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?

Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.

Always just an "administrative" issue.

What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're not suggesting that I don't place any responsibility on Muslim extremism, because that is not at all the case.

lukin2006

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.

Just answered.

That's their problem ...

BS44325

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.

I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?

Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?

Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.

Always just an "administrative" issue.

What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're not suggesting that I don't place any responsibility on Muslim extremism, because that is not at all the case.

I'm not suggesting that. Your want to take in refugees is an extremely noble one and I am not being facetious when I say that I totally respect your idealism on this. Where I think you're wrong is on the idea that any government can handle the complexity of what is involved. You are asking host governments to deal with a problem that they are just not equipped to deal with. They are not equipped on the short term, they are not equipped in the long term, and good intentions just become another failed big government project with grave consequences. This is not the same as taking in the refugees of any other war. These refugees are penetrated by those who wish to do us harm and when a government's chief responsibility is the protection of it's own citizens then unfortunately these types of refugee claims must be extremely slowed if not altogether stopped.