Another Attack in France (Nice)

PJ_Soul

Just as I suspected it would be, this thread is an unbearable steaming pile of shit. I'm out.

bootlegger10

lukin2006 said:

There's nothing to figure out ... the perpetrators of these acts are nothing more than thugs and criminals. And I'll say it again, the west absolutely needs to get out of the middle east and stay out.
Saying that, these crimes will still exist, peoples who are committing these acts will just find another excuse. I myself have no interest into getting to the root of there anger and hate at apparently the west ... and the the only way you'll rid isis is by boots on the ground in the middle east ... as for us here in Canada hopefully we don't get dragged in more.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of updating a countries immigration policy to try to effectively minimize the chance of ending up with radicalized people's ... but there is no way for certain to prevent this, just impossible.

I understand the idea of the West getting out of the Middle East. I get it and think that way a lot of the time too.

But I also think about whether the Middle East can turn itself around at this point? The USA tried to leave Iraq and as soon as they did ISIS took over. Syria is a mess and governed by a dictator who mass kills his own people. Libya is a mess. You do have some more stable countries in the region like Iran and Saudi Arabia that could possibly help maintain the peace at some point (not saying these countries have the care of the common citizen as their priority but their governments seem to keep things in order).

BS44325

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.

I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.

Godfather.

is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.

this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.

No it is not Obama's fault that the sky is blue but it also has NOTHING to do with Iraq. Again you need to recognize that this version of radical Islam has been ascendent since the 1940's. It had been growing larger everyday since and was coming whether Iraq happened or not. Not enough people understand this history and until we do we will not be able to confront it.

of course it's been brewing. but iraq created the vaccum necessary for it to flourish.

No. You are still not getting it. It was flourishing prior to Iraq. There was a vacuum in Afganistan throughout the 90's along with the growing adherence to Radical Islam throughout the Islamic world as well. Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Egypt, Chechneya, Palestinian Territories, Iraq etc., all showed this growth in radicalism. These states and others accommodated the most radical elements with the hope that they wouldn't turn inward and destroy the authoritarian governments in power. These governments eventually lost "control" of these movements. Control is in quotes because this "control" was only ever illusory. The war in Iraq shattered this illusion of control and put the west face to face with the radical element that was already present and growing. The second "vacuum" came following American withdrawal from Iraq and the failure to get involved in Syria while a third "vacuum" came in Libya following the toppling of Gadafi. Again you need to understand that radical Islam pre-dates western civilization as it is currently defined. It comes and it goes through the course of history and it's adherents do not require the behaviour of the west for motivation. All they require is the literal interpretation of the Koran as they see it. This is the ideology. A literal interpretation is not dependant on events. It is one that is strictly consistent for all eternity. It exists in the past, in the present, and in the future. To defeat it we must recognize it.

HughFreakingDillon

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.

I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.

Godfather.

is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.

this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.

No it is not Obama's fault that the sky is blue but it also has NOTHING to do with Iraq. Again you need to recognize that this version of radical Islam has been ascendent since the 1940's. It had been growing larger everyday since and was coming whether Iraq happened or not. Not enough people understand this history and until we do we will not be able to confront it.

of course it's been brewing. but iraq created the vaccum necessary for it to flourish.

No. You are still not getting it. It was flourishing prior to Iraq. There was a vacuum in Afganistan throughout the 90's along with the growing adherence to Radical Islam throughout the Islamic world as well. Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Egypt, Chechneya, Palestinian Territories, Iraq etc., all showed this growth in radicalism. These states and others accommodated the most radical elements with the hope that they wouldn't turn inward and destroy the authoritarian governments in power. These governments eventually lost "control" of these movements. Control is in quotes because this "control" was only ever illusory. The war in Iraq shattered this illusion of control and put the west face to face with the radical element that was already present and growing. The second "vacuum" came following American withdrawal from Iraq and the failure to get involved in Syria while a third "vacuum" came in Libya following the toppling of Gadafi. Again you need to understand that radical Islam pre-dates western civilization as it is currently defined. It comes and it goes through the course of history and it's adherents do not require the behaviour of the west for motivation. All they require is the literal interpretation of the Koran as they see it. This is the ideology. A literal interpretation is not dependant on events. It is one that is strictly consistent for all eternity. It exists in the past, in the present, and in the future. To defeat it we must recognize it.

I stop reading whenever someone says "you're not getting it". my 10 year old daughter says that to me.

BS44325

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.

I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.

Godfather.

is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.

this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.

No it is not Obama's fault that the sky is blue but it also has NOTHING to do with Iraq. Again you need to recognize that this version of radical Islam has been ascendent since the 1940's. It had been growing larger everyday since and was coming whether Iraq happened or not. Not enough people understand this history and until we do we will not be able to confront it.

of course it's been brewing. but iraq created the vaccum necessary for it to flourish.

No. You are still not getting it. It was flourishing prior to Iraq. There was a vacuum in Afganistan throughout the 90's along with the growing adherence to Radical Islam throughout the Islamic world as well. Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Egypt, Chechneya, Palestinian Territories, Iraq etc., all showed this growth in radicalism. These states and others accommodated the most radical elements with the hope that they wouldn't turn inward and destroy the authoritarian governments in power. These governments eventually lost "control" of these movements. Control is in quotes because this "control" was only ever illusory. The war in Iraq shattered this illusion of control and put the west face to face with the radical element that was already present and growing. The second "vacuum" came following American withdrawal from Iraq and the failure to get involved in Syria while a third "vacuum" came in Libya following the toppling of Gadafi. Again you need to understand that radical Islam pre-dates western civilization as it is currently defined. It comes and it goes through the course of history and it's adherents do not require the behaviour of the west for motivation. All they require is the literal interpretation of the Koran as they see it. This is the ideology. A literal interpretation is not dependant on events. It is one that is strictly consistent for all eternity. It exists in the past, in the present, and in the future. To defeat it we must recognize it.

I stop reading whenever someone says "you're not getting it". my 10 year old daughter says that to me.

Well that's a shame. When my 10 year old daughter says it to me I always listen. Once we stop listening we lose the capacity to learn.

HughFreakingDillon

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.

I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.

Godfather.

is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.

this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.

No it is not Obama's fault that the sky is blue but it also has NOTHING to do with Iraq. Again you need to recognize that this version of radical Islam has been ascendent since the 1940's. It had been growing larger everyday since and was coming whether Iraq happened or not. Not enough people understand this history and until we do we will not be able to confront it.

of course it's been brewing. but iraq created the vaccum necessary for it to flourish.

No. You are still not getting it. It was flourishing prior to Iraq. There was a vacuum in Afganistan throughout the 90's along with the growing adherence to Radical Islam throughout the Islamic world as well. Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Egypt, Chechneya, Palestinian Territories, Iraq etc., all showed this growth in radicalism. These states and others accommodated the most radical elements with the hope that they wouldn't turn inward and destroy the authoritarian governments in power. These governments eventually lost "control" of these movements. Control is in quotes because this "control" was only ever illusory. The war in Iraq shattered this illusion of control and put the west face to face with the radical element that was already present and growing. The second "vacuum" came following American withdrawal from Iraq and the failure to get involved in Syria while a third "vacuum" came in Libya following the toppling of Gadafi. Again you need to understand that radical Islam pre-dates western civilization as it is currently defined. It comes and it goes through the course of history and it's adherents do not require the behaviour of the west for motivation. All they require is the literal interpretation of the Koran as they see it. This is the ideology. A literal interpretation is not dependant on events. It is one that is strictly consistent for all eternity. It exists in the past, in the present, and in the future. To defeat it we must recognize it.

I stop reading whenever someone says "you're not getting it". my 10 year old daughter says that to me.

Well that's a shame. When my 10 year old daughter says it to me I always listen. Once we stop listening we lose the capacity to learn.

once we start being rude we lose the capacity to be heard.

BS44325

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.

I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.

Godfather.

is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.

this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.

No it is not Obama's fault that the sky is blue but it also has NOTHING to do with Iraq. Again you need to recognize that this version of radical Islam has been ascendent since the 1940's. It had been growing larger everyday since and was coming whether Iraq happened or not. Not enough people understand this history and until we do we will not be able to confront it.

of course it's been brewing. but iraq created the vaccum necessary for it to flourish.

No. You are still not getting it. It was flourishing prior to Iraq. There was a vacuum in Afganistan throughout the 90's along with the growing adherence to Radical Islam throughout the Islamic world as well. Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Egypt, Chechneya, Palestinian Territories, Iraq etc., all showed this growth in radicalism. These states and others accommodated the most radical elements with the hope that they wouldn't turn inward and destroy the authoritarian governments in power. These governments eventually lost "control" of these movements. Control is in quotes because this "control" was only ever illusory. The war in Iraq shattered this illusion of control and put the west face to face with the radical element that was already present and growing. The second "vacuum" came following American withdrawal from Iraq and the failure to get involved in Syria while a third "vacuum" came in Libya following the toppling of Gadafi. Again you need to understand that radical Islam pre-dates western civilization as it is currently defined. It comes and it goes through the course of history and it's adherents do not require the behaviour of the west for motivation. All they require is the literal interpretation of the Koran as they see it. This is the ideology. A literal interpretation is not dependant on events. It is one that is strictly consistent for all eternity. It exists in the past, in the present, and in the future. To defeat it we must recognize it.

I stop reading whenever someone says "you're not getting it". my 10 year old daughter says that to me.

Well that's a shame. When my 10 year old daughter says it to me I always listen. Once we stop listening we lose the capacity to learn.

once we start being rude we lose the capacity to be heard.

Well my apologies then. I understand that today's special snowflakes have trouble with that kind of give and take but in my world being told "you are still not getting it" is not considered rude. As I am always looking to learn and better myself my usual unemotional response would be "Ok. Please explain to me what I am not getting."

HughFreakingDillon

fake apology? check
passive agressive insult? check
building one's self up? check.

have a nice day.

josevolution

seanwon said:

Godfather. said:

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

We're in a hell of a lot better shape than we were the day he took office.

Ditto don't get on GF he was in a self induced coma thru the Bush yrs he woke up when Obama was elected his anti Muslim alarm went off in his head , unreal the crap he spews on here !

BS44325

seanwon said:

Godfather. said:

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

We're in a hell of a lot better shape than we were the day he took office.

Turn on the tv. Nobody in their right mind believes this.

PJfanwillneverleave1

HughFreakingDillon said:

fake apology? check
passive agressive insult? check
building one's self up? check.

have a nice day.

this is exactly it. the more we try to destroy "them", the more of "them" we will create. it's mind boggling that people haven't fucking learned this yet.

Stopped listening when you want people to agree with that.
Comes across as passive aggressive.
Using your daughter to supplement at times and then back out. Check.

jnimhaoileoin

Eh can I just point out that as far as I know, there is as yet no evidence that the perpetrator in Nice was in any way radicalised or involved in any Islamic extremist organisation? I know this may not fit into the argument you all want to have but I'd like to wait for facts

seanwon

BS44325 said:

seanwon said:

Godfather. said:

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

We're in a hell of a lot better shape than we were the day he took office.

Turn on the tv. Nobody in their right mind believes this.

And by turn on the TV, you mean turn on Fox News. If you think this country is in worse shape today than 2008, you are incredibly naive.

BS44325

seanwon said:

BS44325 said:

seanwon said:

Godfather. said:

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

We're in a hell of a lot better shape than we were the day he took office.

Turn on the tv. Nobody in their right mind believes this.

And by turn on the TV, you mean turn on Fox News. If you think this country is in worse shape today than 2008, you are incredibly naive.

Things were not great in 2008 but right now your country and this world is teetering on the edge of disaster.

Cliffy6745

BS44325 said:

seanwon said:

Godfather. said:

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

We're in a hell of a lot better shape than we were the day he took office.

Turn on the tv. Nobody in their right mind believes this.

I do. Tv doesn't need to tell me anything. Give me statistics as to how we are not

Cliffy6745

BS44325 said:

seanwon said:

BS44325 said:

seanwon said:

Godfather. said:

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

We're in a hell of a lot better shape than we were the day he took office.

Turn on the tv. Nobody in their right mind believes this.

And by turn on the TV, you mean turn on Fox News. If you think this country is in worse shape today than 2008, you are incredibly naive.

Things were not great in 2008 but right now your country and this world is teetering on the edge of disaster.

The world is as safe as it has ever been

InHiding80

josevolution said:

seanwon said:

Godfather. said:

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

We're in a hell of a lot better shape than we were the day he took office.

Ditto don't get on GF he was in a self induced coma thru the Bush yrs he woke up when Obama was elected his anti Muslim alarm went off in his head , unreal the crap he spews on here !

He wasn't in a coma. He just saw the complexion and party change so he started getting butt hurt.

gimmesometruth27

Cliffy6745 said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.

I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.

Godfather.

is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.

this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

In what way is this country a mess since he's been elected? Let's use actual measures...

Let's start with unemployment? That has surely gone through the roof? Oh, yeah, right...

How about the GDP? Oh yeah, right....

How about the number of soldiers killed in wars? Oh yeah, right...

How about the number of civilians killed by terrorist attacks? Oh yeah, right...

How about the number of people with health insurance? Oh yeah, right...

Do you propose we look at anything else? Or is this just more of your idiocy?

don't forget america's image. it has drastically improved the world over.

we were not necessarily the most liked of countries when cowboy w and dick were running the show.

you stop threatening people, people start to want to try to like you again.

Cliffy6745

gimmesometruth27 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.

I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.

Godfather.

is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.

this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

In what way is this country a mess since he's been elected? Let's use actual measures...

Let's start with unemployment? That has surely gone through the roof? Oh, yeah, right...

How about the GDP? Oh yeah, right....

How about the number of soldiers killed in wars? Oh yeah, right...

How about the number of civilians killed by terrorist attacks? Oh yeah, right...

How about the number of people with health insurance? Oh yeah, right...

Do you propose we look at anything else? Or is this just more of your idiocy?

don't forget america's image. it has drastically improved the world over.

we were not necessarily the most liked of countries when cowboy w and dick were running the show.

you stop threatening people, people start to want to try to like you again.

And believe it or not, violent crime is down...

So, still waiting to hear any details about how awful things are...

gimmesometruth27

Cliffy6745 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This is just getting to be too much. This is how we are going to have to live forever. Always that fear in the back of our minds.

I understand you don't agree with me but this could have been avoided for the most part by not letting them in ours and other countries and unless Obama gets off his muslim loving ass it will only get worse or if/ when Trump is elected things will change. perfect reason not to vote for Hillary.

Godfather.

is it obama's fault the sky is blue now too? jesus.

this could all have been avoided if the US didn't go to iraq. American and British foreign policy created a whole generation of people a reason to hate all democratic "western" nations.

he is the commander and chief right.....sad as it is and every time he talks about muslims he say's nothing or very little about their involvement in terrorist attacks, he's just another excuse maker. look at our country since he's been elected....a friggin mess ! I can't wait until he leaves office.

Godfather.

In what way is this country a mess since he's been elected? Let's use actual measures...

Let's start with unemployment? That has surely gone through the roof? Oh, yeah, right...

How about the GDP? Oh yeah, right....

How about the number of soldiers killed in wars? Oh yeah, right...

How about the number of civilians killed by terrorist attacks? Oh yeah, right...

How about the number of people with health insurance? Oh yeah, right...

Do you propose we look at anything else? Or is this just more of your idiocy?

don't forget america's image. it has drastically improved the world over.

we were not necessarily the most liked of countries when cowboy w and dick were running the show.

you stop threatening people, people start to want to try to like you again.

And believe it or not, violent crime is down...

So, still waiting to hear any details about how awful things are...

you won't, because it can't be reduced down into some jingo or slogan. it requires critical thought that can't be reduced to a single paragraph or soundbite.