Are you guys serious? What do expect these countries to do when there are all these refugees flooding their borders (most of whom legitimately need help)??? I do agree that the Middle Eastern nations need to feel more pressure to step up........ if they are willing. But the thing is that those nations are not inclined to help the international community or the refugees, and even if they were, some of them would be in no position to help anyway. Many refugees would be going from a war zone into another place where they will be oppressed and persecuted, depending on the nation. But anyway, the reality is that refugees are flooding into Europe in insane numbers, rich Middle Eastern nations are not doing enough, and what "should" be done often has nothing to do with what can be done now. I'm thinking you guys don't have a firm grasp of the reality of the situation if you think these alternative solutions are realistic right now. The things you're suggesting are long-term notions that don't help in the here and now.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.
Just answered.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.
Just answered.
Actually, you never answered the question. I'm not sure the correct response to the crisis is opening the door because they've shown up. Germany's mistakes are its own.
Canada's efforts are a drop in the bucket- let's not pat ourselves on the back too eagerly. With that said, I'm not sure where we should be at with regards to policy.
Helping Syrians in Syria might have been the best solution, but doing that invites a whole slate of other problems so... what to do?
I think I did answer his question. I am not patting anything or anyone on the back at all and I never even brought Canada up. I am also not actually just talking about taking in refugees like Canada did and maybe will. Taking in refugees with rigorous screening like that should be a part of it for sure, since some of these folks just need places to go, and be it a drip or a drop, that some of the refugees who are deemed to be "appropriate" candidates can start new lives in countries where there isn't war, terrible oppression of women, and a ruling theocracy or some bastardization of such is a rather wonderful thing. But I am actually more talking about other kinds of help. Administrative help at their borders. Sheer manpower and dollars to help with these refugees in the short term as they figure out what to do with them. People and funding to set up refugee centers in Greece and Germany and elsewhere, pressure on Hungary to stop doing what it's doing and an offer to help them handle the refugees at their border in a more useful and humanitarian way, shit like that. And much more help from the international community when it comes to the refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordon, etc. Many of the refugees can't stay in those places because the refugee camps are in such poor condition that just living in them is killing the refugees. There is no medical care at these camps, not enough food, not enough shelter, not enough blankets, not enough anything.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?
Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?
Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?
Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?
Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.
Always just an "administrative" issue.
What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're not suggesting that I don't place any responsibility on Muslim extremism, because that is not at all the case.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.
Just answered.
That's their problem ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?
Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?
Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.
Always just an "administrative" issue.
What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're not suggesting that I don't place any responsibility on Muslim extremism, because that is not at all the case.
I'm not suggesting that. Your want to take in refugees is an extremely noble one and I am not being facetious when I say that I totally respect your idealism on this. Where I think you're wrong is on the idea that any government can handle the complexity of what is involved. You are asking host governments to deal with a problem that they are just not equipped to deal with. They are not equipped on the short term, they are not equipped in the long term, and good intentions just become another failed big government project with grave consequences. This is not the same as taking in the refugees of any other war. These refugees are penetrated by those who wish to do us harm and when a government's chief responsibility is the protection of it's own citizens then unfortunately these types of refugee claims must be extremely slowed if not altogether stopped.
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.
Just answered.
That's their problem ...
And that attitude is a big part of what's wrong with the world IMO.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?
Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?
Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.
Always just an "administrative" issue.
What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're not suggesting that I don't place any responsibility on Muslim extremism, because that is not at all the case.
I'm not suggesting that. Your want to take in refugees is an extremely noble one and I am not being facetious when I say that I totally respect your idealism on this. Where I think you're wrong is on the idea that any government can handle the complexity of what is involved. You are asking host governments to deal with a problem that they are just not equipped to deal with. They are not equipped on the short term, they are not equipped in the long term, and good intentions just become another failed big government project with grave consequences. This is not the same as taking in the refugees of any other war. These refugees are penetrated by those who wish to do us harm and when a government's chief responsibility is the protection of it's own citizens then unfortunately these types of refugee claims must be extremely slowed if not altogether stopped.
But that is why I'm talking about the international community cooperating and coming together to do it together. Because no one government can handle it alone. (And thanks for being nice, lol )
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?
Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?
Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.
Always just an "administrative" issue.
What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're not suggesting that I don't place any responsibility on Muslim extremism, because that is not at all the case.
I'm not suggesting that. Your want to take in refugees is an extremely noble one and I am not being facetious when I say that I totally respect your idealism on this. Where I think you're wrong is on the idea that any government can handle the complexity of what is involved. You are asking host governments to deal with a problem that they are just not equipped to deal with. They are not equipped on the short term, they are not equipped in the long term, and good intentions just become another failed big government project with grave consequences. This is not the same as taking in the refugees of any other war. These refugees are penetrated by those who wish to do us harm and when a government's chief responsibility is the protection of it's own citizens then unfortunately these types of refugee claims must be extremely slowed if not altogether stopped.
But that is why I'm talking about the international community cooperating and coming together to do it together. Because no one government can handle it alone. (And thanks for being nice, lol )
The "international community" is a mythical idealized entity that is equally incapable. Most countries either don't care or don't have the resources and would prefer to leave this problem to the west. It's terrible but that's just how it is. I get that you're a dreamer and that hey you're not the only one. I would even love to join you but unfortunately I just don't think the world is ready to live as one.
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?
Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?
Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.
Always just an "administrative" issue.
What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're not suggesting that I don't place any responsibility on Muslim extremism, because that is not at all the case.
I'm not suggesting that. Your want to take in refugees is an extremely noble one and I am not being facetious when I say that I totally respect your idealism on this. Where I think you're wrong is on the idea that any government can handle the complexity of what is involved. You are asking host governments to deal with a problem that they are just not equipped to deal with. They are not equipped on the short term, they are not equipped in the long term, and good intentions just become another failed big government project with grave consequences. This is not the same as taking in the refugees of any other war. These refugees are penetrated by those who wish to do us harm and when a government's chief responsibility is the protection of it's own citizens then unfortunately these types of refugee claims must be extremely slowed if not altogether stopped.
But that is why I'm talking about the international community cooperating and coming together to do it together. Because no one government can handle it alone. (And thanks for being nice, lol )
The "international community" is a mythical idealized entity that is equally incapable. Most countries either don't care or don't have the resources and would prefer to leave this problem to the west. It's terrible but that's just how it is. I get that you're a dreamer and that hey you're not the only one. I would even love to join you but unfortunately I just don't think the world is ready to live as one.
It's not a mythical entity. It's a bunch of actual real life governments. I am aware that they suck so far in getting anything done together. That is why I am saying that's what they need to do. It is actually possible. I didn't say I thought they'd be able to pull their shit together and do it (honestly, I am not some delusion moron with my head in the clouds and puppy dogs and rainbows flying through my brain, fyi). It's just what is required for shit to be handled properly. Otherwise, we'll just keep seeing what's happening now.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
I'm not too sure how these attacks would be 'prevented'?
Do you mean spread out the attacks so not just Germany's people are getting blown up?
Lol, no. I mean that if the region had real help from the international community they would be able to have much better control over who crosses the borders or walks into the country from the beach. It is just the sheer numbers of refugees entering that is making it impossible for them to have any kind of meaningful security checks happening with the refugees.
Always just an "administrative" issue.
What's that supposed to mean? I hope you're not suggesting that I don't place any responsibility on Muslim extremism, because that is not at all the case.
I'm not suggesting that. Your want to take in refugees is an extremely noble one and I am not being facetious when I say that I totally respect your idealism on this. Where I think you're wrong is on the idea that any government can handle the complexity of what is involved. You are asking host governments to deal with a problem that they are just not equipped to deal with. They are not equipped on the short term, they are not equipped in the long term, and good intentions just become another failed big government project with grave consequences. This is not the same as taking in the refugees of any other war. These refugees are penetrated by those who wish to do us harm and when a government's chief responsibility is the protection of it's own citizens then unfortunately these types of refugee claims must be extremely slowed if not altogether stopped.
But that is why I'm talking about the international community cooperating and coming together to do it together. Because no one government can handle it alone. (And thanks for being nice, lol )
The "international community" is a mythical idealized entity that is equally incapable. Most countries either don't care or don't have the resources and would prefer to leave this problem to the west. It's terrible but that's just how it is. I get that you're a dreamer and that hey you're not the only one. I would even love to join you but unfortunately I just don't think the world is ready to live as one.
It's not a mythical entity. It's a bunch of actual real life governments. I am aware that they suck so far in getting anything done together. That is why I am saying that's what they need to do. It is actually possible. I didn't say I thought they'd be able to pull their shit together and do it (honestly, I am not some delusion moron with my head in the clouds and puppy dogs and rainbows flying through my brain, fyi). It's just what is required for shit to be handled properly. Otherwise, we'll just keep seeing what's happening now.
Agreed but what's required is never coming. That's why every country should worry about security first.
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.
Just answered.
That's their problem ...
And that attitude is a big part of what's wrong with the world IMO.
So please explain to me why Canada needs to take on Germanys problem ... why doesn't Germany go ask the wealthy Middle East countries to do waaaaay more, how 'bout pm moonbeam here in Canada why doesn't he ask his Saudi friends to do more, or do they only talk when it comes to selling weapons to one of the worst nations on earth.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
If only Germany had more help from the international community in handling all those refugees. This would probably be preventable if everyone would step up and lighten the load for Germany.
Why should the international community help Germany ... the choose to take the in 1 million refugees ... why don't they confront the wealthier middle eastern countries about them taking some if they took too many in.
Just answered.
That's their problem ...
And that attitude is a big part of what's wrong with the world IMO.
So please explain to me why Canada needs to take on Germanys problem ... why doesn't Germany go ask the wealthy Middle East countries to do waaaaay more, how 'bout pm moonbeam here in Canada why doesn't he ask his Saudi friends to do more, or do they only talk when it comes to selling weapons to one of the worst nations on earth.
I don't see it as just Germany's problem at all, and I'm not sure why you think just asking Middle Eastern countries to do something is going to work.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
But when refugees flood the borders - when they land on beaches in overcrowded boats while the bodies of their loved ones and neighbors wash up on shore beside them, when 20,000 people all try to cross the border at the same time and when tens of thousands are filling the streets while they starve, you can't just leave it alone. It becomes a humanitarian crisis right on your doorstep that is literally impossible to just ignore.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
But when refugees flood the borders - when they land on beaches in overcrowded boats while the bodies of their loved ones and neighbors wash up on shore beside them, when 20,000 people all try to cross the border at the same time and when tens of thousands are filling the streets while they starve, you can't just leave it alone. It becomes a humanitarian crisis right on your doorstep that is literally impossible to just ignore.
I don't know what you do, but letting millions into Europe who are impossible to vet properly (and currently appears Merkel doesn't care to vet) and don't want to assimilate leading to decades and decades of turmoi and unrest is not a solution.
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
But when refugees flood the borders - when they land on beaches in overcrowded boats while the bodies of their loved ones and neighbors wash up on shore beside them, when 20,000 people all try to cross the border at the same time and when tens of thousands are filling the streets while they starve, you can't just leave it alone. It becomes a humanitarian crisis right on your doorstep that is literally impossible to just ignore.
I don't know what you do, but letting millions into Europe who are impossible to vet properly (and currently appears Merkel doesn't care to vet) and don't want to assimilate leading to decades and decades of turmoi and unrest is not a solution.
No it's not, which is actually the whole point of what I'm saying. Without help, Germany and Greece are pretty much helpless against that unless they want to make the humanitarian crisis worse than it already is.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Two terrorists has cut the throat of a priest in Normandie (France) today.
Twitter is saying he was beheaded- the 'go to' move by these sick, deranged mutant f**ks.
Such pleasant types.
I think there has to be a level of joy these shitheads take in murdering people. I know in most of these events they're screaming away and running around with their 4 inch erections... but I speak to the intrinsic level of satisfaction a psychopathic might take from savagely murdering an elderly priest.
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
But when refugees flood the borders - when they land on beaches in overcrowded boats while the bodies of their loved ones and neighbors wash up on shore beside them, when 20,000 people all try to cross the border at the same time and when tens of thousands are filling the streets while they starve, you can't just leave it alone. It becomes a humanitarian crisis right on your doorstep that is literally impossible to just ignore.
I don't know what you do, but letting millions into Europe who are impossible to vet properly (and currently appears Merkel doesn't care to vet) and don't want to assimilate leading to decades and decades of turmoi and unrest is not a solution.
No it's not, which is actually the whole point of what I'm saying. Without help, Germany and Greece are pretty much helpless against that unless they want to make the humanitarian crisis worse than it already is.
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
But when refugees flood the borders - when they land on beaches in overcrowded boats while the bodies of their loved ones and neighbors wash up on shore beside them, when 20,000 people all try to cross the border at the same time and when tens of thousands are filling the streets while they starve, you can't just leave it alone. It becomes a humanitarian crisis right on your doorstep that is literally impossible to just ignore.
I don't know what you do, but letting millions into Europe who are impossible to vet properly (and currently appears Merkel doesn't care to vet) and don't want to assimilate leading to decades and decades of turmoi and unrest is not a solution.
No it's not, which is actually the whole point of what I'm saying. Without help, Germany and Greece are pretty much helpless against that unless they want to make the humanitarian crisis worse than it already is.
I guess I am skeptical that your way is possible.
I know. All that's missing is the willingness of these fucking politicians to actually cooperate and do something useful without putting their own interests ahead of the common good. All it takes is people to get off their asses and do it - make some cooperative decisions, draw up a plan of execution and funding, round up the manpower, and fucking DO it. Our leaders apparently aren't capable of that because they are a bunch of narcissistic assholes who are too busy making themselves feel important by talking and debating everything literally to death and always only really thinking about how to keep their power and how to play the media. It's very frustrating.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
Yes leave them to themselves including Israel that I can agree with so you agree we should not be overthere trying to tell them how they should be running their nations ..
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
Yes leave them to themselves including Israel that I can agree with so you agree we should not be overthere trying to tell them how they should be running their nations ..
What if how they run their nations results in mass migration of their people to Western countries? Is the West supposed to take on the cost and assimilation issues with millions of refugees (i.e., these other countries are making themselves the West's problem)? Is the West supposed to ignore genocide in other countries under the guise that these other countries "run their own nations"? I'm not saying I know the answers to these questions. There have been plenty of genocides in history that went ignored because it wasn't possible to intervene safely or the will was not there.
Granted I understand the argument that the West contributed to the region's instability.
^^^because the middle east can deal with their own problems, constantly at war, Isis a gang of hoodlums, terrorism and on and on .... We need to leave that part world and let them figure it out.
Yes leave them to themselves including Israel that I can agree with so you agree we should not be overthere trying to tell them how they should be running their nations ..
I completely agree until you get into the humanitarian conundrum that creates. Human beings seem to generally feel a moral obligation to help people who are suffering. That is why it's not generally well-received with people say that we shouldn't even give to charities that feed starving people or that medicate the sick in third world countries, because we should allow natural population controls do its work. I find it difficult to believe that the west will just stand back and watch while religious fanatics rape little girls, throw acid in the faces of girls who try to go to school, imprison and murder entire villages because they're Christian, see gay people rounded up and sent to prison or put to death, etc etc etc.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Canada's efforts are a drop in the bucket- let's not pat ourselves on the back too eagerly. With that said, I'm not sure where we should be at with regards to policy.
Helping Syrians in Syria might have been the best solution, but doing that invites a whole slate of other problems so... what to do?
I am not patting anything or anyone on the back at all and I never even brought Canada up. I am also not actually just talking about taking in refugees like Canada did and maybe will. Taking in refugees with rigorous screening like that should be a part of it for sure, since some of these folks just need places to go, and be it a drip or a drop, that some of the refugees who are deemed to be "appropriate" candidates can start new lives in countries where there isn't war, terrible oppression of women, and a ruling theocracy or some bastardization of such is a rather wonderful thing. But I am actually more talking about other kinds of help. Administrative help at their borders. Sheer manpower and dollars to help with these refugees in the short term as they figure out what to do with them. People and funding to set up refugee centers in Greece and Germany and elsewhere, pressure on Hungary to stop doing what it's doing and an offer to help them handle the refugees at their border in a more useful and humanitarian way, shit like that. And much more help from the international community when it comes to the refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon, Jordon, etc. Many of the refugees can't stay in those places because the refugee camps are in such poor condition that just living in them is killing the refugees. There is no medical care at these camps, not enough food, not enough shelter, not enough blankets, not enough anything.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Hmmm. Interesting. "You cannot stay. But stay."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Such pleasant types.
I think there has to be a level of joy these shitheads take in murdering people. I know in most of these events they're screaming away and running around with their 4 inch erections... but I speak to the intrinsic level of satisfaction a psychopathic might take from savagely murdering an elderly priest.
Granted I understand the argument that the West contributed to the region's instability.