Great conversations about equality and this dumb ass discriminatory law meant to appease all the scared white men that are afraid of turning gay if a gay man winks at them.
This country is blazing forward and these backlashes are signs of progress.
Now sadly the insecure ones are coming out of the wood work for all to see. Like kicking a rotten log and all the tree roaches scatter.
Didn't realize so many insecure PJ fans fail to read lyrics of their songs. Pretty funny.
Back to thread, PJ did the right thing and I'm proud of them. Can't wait to see them in few weeks.
While at the same time they have no outrage over Hastert and Larry Craig because white republican double standards.
white privilege bla bla bla !!!! mean ol white man bla bla bla... geeze dude first Callenand now you..how would it be if I brought up the black issues every time a discussion is posted ? after all my reputation here is that of a bigot, racist, homophobe. I'm missing one ???
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
growing facial hair and having a adadictame does not make a woman a man... and a male who chops off his junk and has his facial hair permanently removed IS NOT a woman..I realize I'm one of the few on this board who recognizes this and just because you think other wise dose not make you or the others right, doctors and medical science will back my comments and beliefs on this issue, if you want to believe a simple operation will change gender then that's cool but don't force your opinion on me please because as you know I am not accepting it at all in way or form.
Godfather.
You dodged the question, as usual. Do you want that person in the men's room, or in the ladies room with your precious ducklings?
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,884
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
growing facial hair and having a adadictame does not make a woman a man... and a male who chops off his junk and has his facial hair permanently removed IS NOT a woman..I realize I'm one of the few on this board who recognizes this and just because you think other wise dose not make you or the others right, doctors and medical science will back my comments and beliefs on this issue, if you want to believe a simple operation will change gender then that's cool but don't force your opinion on me please because as you know I am not accepting it at all in way or form.
Godfather.
but GF by most of the standards in these laws its those very things that define gender. so without them........ or with them ........
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
growing facial hair and having a adadictame does not make a woman a man... and a male who chops off his junk and has his facial hair permanently removed IS NOT a woman..I realize I'm one of the few on this board who recognizes this and just because you think other wise dose not make you or the others right, doctors and medical science will back my comments and beliefs on this issue, if you want to believe a simple operation will change gender then that's cool but don't force your opinion on me please because as you know I am not accepting it at all in way or form.
Godfather.
You dodged the question, as usual. Do you want that person in the men's room, or in the ladies room with your precious ducklings?
no....but if you want her in the ladies room with you that's fine by me. and what's this duckling shit ? nobody in my family identifies them selves as any kind of animal, do you have that issue in your family ? and should we make a special potty for them as well ?
Great conversations about equality and this dumb ass discriminatory law meant to appease all the scared white men that are afraid of turning gay if a gay man winks at them.
This country is blazing forward and these backlashes are signs of progress.
Now sadly the insecure ones are coming out of the wood work for all to see. Like kicking a rotten log and all the tree roaches scatter.
Didn't realize so many insecure PJ fans fail to read lyrics of their songs. Pretty funny.
Back to thread, PJ did the right thing and I'm proud of them. Can't wait to see them in few weeks.
While at the same time they have no outrage over Hastert and Larry Craig because white republican double standards.
white privilege bla bla bla !!!! mean ol white man bla bla bla... geeze dude first Callenand now you..how would it be if I brought up the black issues every time a discussion is posted ? after all my reputation here is that of a bigot, racist, homophobe. I'm missing one ???
Godfather.
Nope you're missing three...you're reputation on here is also that of a person who is clearly transphobic, xenophobic, and islamaphobic
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
growing facial hair and having a adadictame does not make a woman a man... and a male who chops off his junk and has his facial hair permanently removed IS NOT a woman..I realize I'm one of the few on this board who recognizes this and just because you think other wise dose not make you or the others right, doctors and medical science will back my comments and beliefs on this issue, if you want to believe a simple operation will change gender then that's cool but don't force your opinion on me please because as you know I am not accepting it at all in way or form.
Godfather.
You dodged the question, as usual. Do you want that person in the men's room, or in the ladies room with your precious ducklings?
no....but if you want her in the ladies room with you that's fine by me. and what's this duckling shit ? nobody in my family identifies them selves as any kind of animal, do you have that issue in your family ? and should we make a special potty for them as well ?
Godfather.
You are lost, no is not an answer that is applicable to the question I asked. Also, I am male so I don't use the ladies room, but the person I referenced from the photo is clearly a male outwardly so you have it all garbled and confused.
Your ducklings are the wives and daughters that you think need to be protected from the evil penises in disguise... Your patriarchal baloney doesn't fly with strong women, only precious ducklings.
Great conversations about equality and this dumb ass discriminatory law meant to appease all the scared white men that are afraid of turning gay if a gay man winks at them.
This country is blazing forward and these backlashes are signs of progress.
Now sadly the insecure ones are coming out of the wood work for all to see. Like kicking a rotten log and all the tree roaches scatter.
Didn't realize so many insecure PJ fans fail to read lyrics of their songs. Pretty funny.
Back to thread, PJ did the right thing and I'm proud of them. Can't wait to see them in few weeks.
While at the same time they have no outrage over Hastert and Larry Craig because white republican double standards.
white privilege bla bla bla !!!! mean ol white man bla bla bla... geeze dude first Callenand now you..how would it be if I brought up the black issues every time a discussion is posted ? after all my reputation here is that of a bigot, racist, homophobe. I'm missing one ???
Godfather.
Yes....you're clearly transphobic, xenophobic, and islamaphobic
thank you Bently, it's hard to remember all these labels on the fly...hay you forgot a few, Gun totting, redneck, God Loving American patriot. A man with this many titles clearly deserves a tax break and free phone right ?
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
growing facial hair and having a adadictame does not make a woman a man... and a male who chops off his junk and has his facial hair permanently removed IS NOT a woman..I realize I'm one of the few on this board who recognizes this and just because you think other wise dose not make you or the others right, doctors and medical science will back my comments and beliefs on this issue, if you want to believe a simple operation will change gender then that's cool but don't force your opinion on me please because as you know I am not accepting it at all in way or form.
Godfather.
You dodged the question, as usual. Do you want that person in the men's room, or in the ladies room with your precious ducklings?
no....but if you want her in the ladies room with you that's fine by me. and what's this duckling shit ? nobody in my family identifies them selves as any kind of animal, do you have that issue in your family ? and should we make a special potty for them as well ?
Godfather.
You are lost, no is not an answer that is applicable to the question I asked. Also, I am male so I don't use the ladies room, but the person I referenced from the photo is clearly a male outwardly so you have it all garbled and confused.
Your ducklings are the wives and daughters that you think need to be protected from the evil penises in disguise... Your patriarchal baloney doesn't fly with strong women, only precious ducklings.
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Great conversations about equality and this dumb ass discriminatory law meant to appease all the scared white men that are afraid of turning gay if a gay man winks at them.
This country is blazing forward and these backlashes are signs of progress.
Now sadly the insecure ones are coming out of the wood work for all to see. Like kicking a rotten log and all the tree roaches scatter.
Didn't realize so many insecure PJ fans fail to read lyrics of their songs. Pretty funny.
Back to thread, PJ did the right thing and I'm proud of them. Can't wait to see them in few weeks.
While at the same time they have no outrage over Hastert and Larry Craig because white republican double standards.
white privilege bla bla bla !!!! mean ol white man bla bla bla... geeze dude first Callenand now you..how would it be if I brought up the black issues every time a discussion is posted ? after all my reputation here is that of a bigot, racist, homophobe. I'm missing one ???
Godfather.
Yes....you're clearly transphobic, xenophobic, and islamaphobic
thank you Bently, it's hard to remember all these labels on the fly...hay you forgot a few, Gun totting, redneck, God Loving American patriot. A man with this many titles clearly deserves a tax break and free phone right ?
Godfather.
Absolutely and if course free oil changes annually
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, she was born a female right ?
Godfather.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,884
GF . Hermaphrodites(sp?]. which do they use? hmm? male and female genetalia. should they just hold it?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, she was born a female right ?
Godfather.
I don't know, actually. How would you? Are you going to do a genital check? How else would you determine which restroom they should use? Are your wives and daughters comfortable with this person in their restroom?
Doesn't make sense to me.
What makes sense to me is everyone minding their own damn business and the government not sticking it's nose into the bathroom habits of law abiding American citizens.
Great conversations about equality and this dumb ass discriminatory law meant to appease all the scared white men that are afraid of turning gay if a gay man winks at them.
This country is blazing forward and these backlashes are signs of progress.
Now sadly the insecure ones are coming out of the wood work for all to see. Like kicking a rotten log and all the tree roaches scatter.
Didn't realize so many insecure PJ fans fail to read lyrics of their songs. Pretty funny.
Back to thread, PJ did the right thing and I'm proud of them. Can't wait to see them in few weeks.
While at the same time they have no outrage over Hastert and Larry Craig because white republican double standards.
white privilege bla bla bla !!!! mean ol white man bla bla bla... geeze dude first Callenand now you..how would it be if I brought up the black issues every time a discussion is posted ? after all my reputation here is that of a bigot, racist, homophobe. I'm missing one ???
Godfather.
Nope you're missing three...you're reputation on here is also that of a person who is clearly transphobic, xenophobic, and islamaphobic
Why so fearful?
Ya know, The rapists, pedophiles, sexual offenders you are afraid of look like ordinary human beings and are not transgender. This is a fear issue of somebody who is different and not anything else.
Great conversations about equality and this dumb ass discriminatory law meant to appease all the scared white men that are afraid of turning gay if a gay man winks at them.
This country is blazing forward and these backlashes are signs of progress.
Now sadly the insecure ones are coming out of the wood work for all to see. Like kicking a rotten log and all the tree roaches scatter.
Didn't realize so many insecure PJ fans fail to read lyrics of their songs. Pretty funny.
Back to thread, PJ did the right thing and I'm proud of them. Can't wait to see them in few weeks.
While at the same time they have no outrage over Hastert and Larry Craig because white republican double standards.
We all have our realities and a few sinning republicans won't changed their views.
I don't think the world is this black and white. Not everything comes down to discrimination and hate. I am a conservative and don't always agree with the stands that PJ makes or opinions posted here, but I try to understand why those views exist. It is very common for those who don't agree with a liberal point of view to be labeled as hateful or discriminatory. I'm pro-life. It is not because I hate women, nor do I even know anyone who is pro-life because they hate women and want to restrict them in any way. We have a different opinion about life and when it starts and hold the life of an unborn child just as valuable as another child. Hilary or Bernie would like you to believe my stance is because I discriminate against women, they could not be more wrong. Just as I don't believe anyone pro-choice is a murderer (please don't quote extremists and think they stand for us all. Idiots can be found in all groups on both sides and rarely represent the majority), I simply realize you have a different view about an unborn child, and that is okay. We can disagree, we can even disagree and still fight for what we believe in. Just don't call me ignorant and hateful because I believe something different than you. Doesn't anyone see the irony in that? How many people were called hateful in this forum alone for not agreeing with the band?
I have several women in my life; wife, mother, sisters, who feel uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a man purely on privacy issues or that we're just more disgusting. To give a man the right to chose which bathroom to use because he doesn't wish to share a bathroom with other men, you take that right away from women who doesn't wish to share a bathroom with a man either. The only issue I have with this debate is it seems like a catch 22. To give one person the right to chose you take that right away from the rest. Who gets to chose and who doesn't?
I don't think there is a perfect solution with or without this law, exceptions would exist in either case. If Pearl Jam doesn't agree with this law then they should stand up against it. That doesn't make me hateful if I don't agree though. In fact, I don't think this would even be a topic if everyone was more tolerable and understanding of the opposite views.
So your in favor of letting others choose as they will and are the side of pro choice laws?
Sooooo thinking gathering of transgendered folks meeting at a Chick fil A in affluent town on Saturday afternoon with reporters present is in order. All line up in god given genitalia order.
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, as I've already said an operation and hair growth/removal do NOT change the facts. I don't care if a person is gay/lesbian or confused it don't take a genius to see what their package looks like and if their uncomfortable using the public restrooms with other men/women then that is their issue not mine.
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, as I've already said an operation and hair growth/removal do NOT change the facts. I don't care if a person is gay/lesbian or confused it don't take a genius to see what their package looks like and if their uncomfortable using the public restrooms with other men/women then that is their issue not mine.
Godfather.
If you saw this person going Into the bathroom after your wife went in you'd be fine? Really? You wouldn't know this person was born w women genitals.
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, she was born a female right ?
Godfather.
I don't know, actually. How would you? Are you going to do a genital check? How else would you determine which restroom they should use? Are your wives and daughters comfortable with this person in their restroom?
Doesn't make sense to me.
What makes sense to me is everyone minding their own damn business and the government not sticking it's nose into the bathroom habits of law abiding American citizens.
LOL !!!! nicely played my friend ! but in my humble defense I believe it was Free who noted that he is actually a she.
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, as I've already said an operation and hair growth/removal do NOT change the facts. I don't care if a person is gay/lesbian or confused it don't take a genius to see what their package looks like and if their uncomfortable using the public restrooms with other men/women then that is their issue not mine.
Godfather.
Your statements are contradictory and don't make sense.
You are saying that a person with a penis should use the ladies room if they were born with a vagina... And you are saying "it don't take a genius" to see what genitals they have...
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, as I've already said an operation and hair growth/removal do NOT change the facts. I don't care if a person is gay/lesbian or confused it don't take a genius to see what their package looks like and if their uncomfortable using the public restrooms with other men/women then that is their issue not mine.
Godfather.
If you saw this person going Into the bathroom after your wife went in you'd be fine? Really? You wouldn't know this person was born w women genitals.
I'm guessing start a fight or call the cops. Either way conflict would happen....where there was none before.
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, as I've already said an operation and hair growth/removal do NOT change the facts. I don't care if a person is gay/lesbian or confused it don't take a genius to see what their package looks like and if their uncomfortable using the public restrooms with other men/women then that is their issue not mine.
Godfather.
If you saw this person going Into the bathroom after your wife went in you'd be fine? Really? You wouldn't know this person was born w women genitals.
I'm guessing start a fight or call the cops. Either way conflict would happen....where there was none before.
Because people are homophobic.
Can't help but shake my head, Finish my coffee and head outdoors to listen to the birds.
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
Which restroom should this person use?
the ladies room, she was born a female right ?
Godfather.
I don't know, actually. How would you? Are you going to do a genital check? How else would you determine which restroom they should use? Are your wives and daughters comfortable with this person in their restroom?
Doesn't make sense to me.
What makes sense to me is everyone minding their own damn business and the government not sticking it's nose into the bathroom habits of law abiding American citizens.
LOL !!!! nicely played my friend ! but in my humble defense I believe it was Free who noted that he is actually a she.
GF . Hermaphrodites(sp?]. which do they use? hmm? male and female genetalia. should they just hold it?
I haven't run in to any and besides how often do see hermaphrodites protesting for "equal rights" or screaming they need attention and special bathrooms ? I haven't heard of any.
Godfather.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,884
how about upstanding citizens like the straight Dennis Hastert? comfortable sending your boys into a restroom with him? Former congressmann longest serving speaker of the house?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
so trans people will be the only ones other than real women using the women's restroom ?.....I doubt that, your opening a door for sexual predators and this guy will have to live with the actions and crimes committed by these sick fucks...and the victims will have no choice all because a group of liberals believe that a man in a dress identifies himself as a woman is harmless.....it seems to me that any man who wears a dress and make-up in public is already battling with his own issues, not all are violent I'm sure but if you can make a case against concealed carry or even open carry laws but find it O.K. to open the door for men to use the women's public restrooms your catering to your own agenda and not that of society as a whole
Godfather.
Bigotry is ugly, open your mind not your mouth.
dude really ?????
Godfather.
Yes really. Your post was very misguided to say the least.
wow....just friggin unreal, I just can't wrap my head around letting anybody's wife or daughter use a public bathroom any fuckin male can just walk into but I guess that the price your willing to pay to show the world you believe in transgender equality...which is bullshit in my humble opinion..but carry on in the names of your wives and daughters if it suits your non judgmental feelings.......
Godfather.
What's to stop anyone from walking into any bathroom now? A sign that says "WOMEN "? Will that stop a predator?
Are you really that afraid of a transgendered person using a public bathroom?
aside from that it's a privacy issue for women and children...and yes a concern for fathers and husbands, believe it or not the whole world does not agree with this idea of letting any man who "identifies" himself as a woman in a public restroom with their loved ones.
Godfather.
But dude, lol, with what you're saying, you'll have this person in the men's washroom with you:
And women will have this person in the women's washroom with us:
Do you not think this is inappropriate??? Why would support that?
I don't want women in the mens room either....is that a real woman ? I don't trust you anymore hahhhahhahahhahahhahahahahah
Godfather.
That's a man according to his birth certificate. That is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the men's room.
And this is the kind of person you are insisting has to use the women's washroom in order to protect women's privacy, since her birth certificate says she's a woman:
So this makes you comfortable GF? This is what you are fighting for. Bravo.
growing facial hair and having a adadictame does not make a woman a man... and a male who chops off his junk and has his facial hair permanently removed IS NOT a woman..I realize I'm one of the few on this board who recognizes this and just because you think other wise dose not make you or the others right, doctors and medical science will back my comments and beliefs on this issue, if you want to believe a simple operation will change gender then that's cool but don't force your opinion on me please because as you know I am not accepting it at all in way or form.
Godfather.
That's not even the point. Do you really think it's appropriate for that woman (who you consider a man), and that man (who you consider a woman) in the photos above to use the washroom that matches their birth certificates? Because that is what you're advocating for.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
Godfather.
Do you want that person in the men's room, or in the ladies room with your precious ducklings?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Godfather.
Your ducklings are the wives and daughters that you think need to be protected from the evil penises in disguise...
Your patriarchal baloney doesn't fly with strong women, only precious ducklings.
A man with this many titles clearly deserves a tax break and free phone right ?
Godfather.
Godfather.
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Are you going to do a genital check? How else would you determine which restroom they should use?
Are your wives and daughters comfortable with this person in their restroom?
Doesn't make sense to me.
What makes sense to me is everyone minding their own damn business and the government not sticking it's nose into the bathroom habits of law abiding American citizens.
Ya know, The rapists, pedophiles, sexual offenders you are afraid of look like ordinary human beings and are not transgender. This is a fear issue of somebody who is different and not anything else.
Cops force lesbian to leave ladies’ toilet after refusing to believe she’s a woman
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/511147/Lesbian-forced-to-leave-women-bathroom-police-refuse-to-believe-she-is-woman-female-video
I don't care if a person is gay/lesbian or confused it don't take a genius to see what their package looks like and if their uncomfortable using the public restrooms with other men/women then that is their issue not mine.
Godfather.
Godfather.
You are saying that a person with a penis should use the ladies room if they were born with a vagina... And you are saying "it don't take a genius" to see what genitals they have...
Because people are homophobic.
Godfather.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14