San Bernardino Shootings Kill 14

mcgruff10

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

Cheers!

Sipping Chardonnay again? Or going cosmos tonight?

callen

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

Cheers!

Sipping Chardonnay again? Or going cosmos tonight?

Hey Scruffy it's a good day to do so. Hahaha.

InHiding80

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Shouldn't stopping all the other, far more common forms gun violence, be the right thing to do, too? And if not, why not, since they affect far greater numbers of people?

Yes. Of course. We can do both.

You're opposed to gun control even though countries with fewer firearms and more firearms restrictions have far fewer gun-related homicides yet you have no problem with profiling Muslims to prevent terrorism despite the fact that terrorist attacks are generally a rare occurrence. That's quite the double standard!

Who said I am opposed to gun control? Who said I am for profiling Muslims? Are we reading between the lines again? It is amazing how emotion gets the best of so many of you. Solutions should be based on unemotional look at the data and in the US the data does not back you up. I already linked to a Washington Post article detailing this and here is another link that summarizes it:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/12/04/washington-post-gun-violence-declining-except-gun-free-zones/

Gun ownership in the US is up but gun violence as a whole is down. Mass shootings are definitely up but not everywhere. We need to ask ourselves why without knee jerk responses and without accusing people of being against gun control. Every incident has it's own specific causes and you cannot treat them all the same. This case is due radical Islamism and should and it is my belief that there is not a single gun law you could pass that would have prevented it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look at gun laws for other reasons but in the case it is a whole different ball game. These are not all the same.

Ah, yes. The source that lied about Sherrod. Very trustworthy. Cue classic one word quote from Wayne's World!

mcgruff10

callen said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

Cheers!

Sipping Chardonnay again? Or going cosmos tonight?

Hey Scruffy it's a good day to do so. Hahaha.

Of hell yeah my friend! I m about to sip some vino while eating some ravioli s. Then I m gonna start my anti biotics; gotta get one last glass in before ten days of meds.
Callen, we should somehow meet in the middle on this topic and tour the country with our proposals.

callen

mcgruff10 said:

callen said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

Cheers!

Sipping Chardonnay again? Or going cosmos tonight?

Hey Scruffy it's a good day to do so. Hahaha.

Of hell yeah my friend! I m about to sip some vino while eating some ravioli s. Then I m gonna start my anti biotics; gotta get one last glass in before ten days of meds.
Callen, we should somehow meet in the middle on this topic and tour the country with our proposals.

There's been some great debating on this board last few days.

brianlux

PJPOWER said:

brianlux said:

What is the motive for these shootings? Looks like this was perhaps not directly ISIS related. (And it's worth noting there is still a lot of speculation regarding motive.) My guess would be that the motive ultimately is a tragic end result of Islamophobia. Segregate and show bias against any one one group long and hard enough and bomb their homeland often enough and sure enough, someone is going off the deep end and do something terrible. I'm NOT condoning these acts, of course, just saying maybe we should look at why this kind of thing happens in the first place.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/

"A law enforcement official said it appeared that Wednesday's attack -- which left 14 people dead and 21 wounded before the two attackers, Malik and her husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, were killed in a shootout with police -- may have been inspired by ISIS. But none of the officials said that ISIS directed or ordered the attack.
"This is looking more and more like self-radicalization," a law enforcement official said."

brianlux said:

What is the motive for these shootings? Looks like this was perhaps not directly ISIS related. (And it's worth noting there is still a lot of speculation regarding motive.) My guess would be that the motive ultimately is a tragic end result of Islamophobia. Segregate and show bias against any one one group long and hard enough and bomb their homeland often enough and sure enough, someone is going off the deep end and do something terrible. I'm NOT condoning these acts, of course, just saying maybe we should look at why this kind of thing happens in the first place.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting/

"A law enforcement official said it appeared that Wednesday's attack -- which left 14 people dead and 21 wounded before the two attackers, Malik and her husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, were killed in a shootout with police -- may have been inspired by ISIS. But none of the officials said that ISIS directed or ordered the attack.
"This is looking more and more like self-radicalization," a law enforcement official said."

So explain to me again how the ISIS kind of radical islamic ideology is not a motive when the bitch pledged her allegiance to them during the event? That seems to me to be the exact definition of motive. Radical Islamic ideology (kill kill kill) was a fundamental motive whether she was directly attached to ISIS or not.

Ok, well let's see, first of all I didn't explain anything to you so there's nothing to explain again.

Secondly, there is a difference between an ISIS sponsored/sanctioned attack and an ISIS like or motivated attack but maybe you didn't read that closely.

Thirdly, I'm not sure why you are attacking my post. I made no claims to know what the motive was. But maybe you just like arguing/berating rather than discussing. Good luck with that.

mcgruff10

callen said:

mcgruff10 said:

callen said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

Cheers!

Sipping Chardonnay again? Or going cosmos tonight?

Hey Scruffy it's a good day to do so. Hahaha.

Of hell yeah my friend! I m about to sip some vino while eating some ravioli s. Then I m gonna start my anti biotics; gotta get one last glass in before ten days of meds.
Callen, we should somehow meet in the middle on this topic and tour the country with our proposals.

There's been some great debating on this board last few days.

Shit I thought this was the gun thread lol.

josevolution

callen said:

mcgruff10 said:

callen said:

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

When you look at the roughly 30,000 annual gun deaths in the US and realize that 20,000 of them are suicides, you begin to see that suicide is a huge problem. Let's deal with that.

Of the remaining 10,000, that number includes justifiable self-defense shootings by civilians and police, gang-related shootings and accidents.

If we can take care of the suicide and gang problem here, our gun death figures would be much more in line with the rest of the world.

I thought the 'remainder' was more along the lines of 16,000 per year?

And don't forget... some of those justifiable self defense shootings are suspect to say the least (Trayvon Martin for example).

Hey man, I said "roughly". LOL!

How about this?: Roughly 2/3 of annual gun-related deaths in the US are suicides.

A problem for sure.

Honestly, I feel like a broken record saying it too, capitalism has the potential to suck the soul out of society. Not only does it drive foul international policy, but it buries people domestically.

I support it in modified fashion, but left unchecked... it's ruthless. You wonder why people feel detached and hopeless... look no further than the opportunity they are provided.

Sweet writing Thirty.

Cheers!

Sipping Chardonnay again? Or going cosmos tonight?

Hey Scruffy it's a good day to do so. Hahaha.

Of hell yeah my friend! I m about to sip some vino while eating some ravioli s. Then I m gonna start my anti biotics; gotta get one last glass in before ten days of meds.
Callen, we should somehow meet in the middle on this topic and tour the country with our proposals.

There's been some great debating on this board last few days.

It has been a crazy two weeks what a world

RKCNDY

rr I know it's not from a respected news wire...but I thought it was interesting:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-bernardino-shooting-syed-rizwan-farook-sister-saira-khan-speaks-out-disbelief/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17&ref=yfp

rr165892

RKCNDY said:

rr I know it's not from a respected news wire...but I thought it was interesting:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-bernardino-shooting-syed-rizwan-farook-sister-saira-khan-speaks-out-disbelief/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17&ref=yfp

RK,could you imagine.The poor family members left to fend off all the BS and raise the baby.Selfish shit these 2 jack asses did.All the way around.

blueandwhite

RKCNDY said:

rr I know it's not from a respected news wire...but I thought it was interesting:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/san-bernardino-shooting-syed-rizwan-farook-sister-saira-khan-speaks-out-disbelief/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17&ref=yfp

Did anyone else have Heineken ads pop up when scrolling through the victim's names and short bios? I always want to read about the victims because it helps put a face on tragedies like this. It reminds me that these men and women have families who deserve the utmost sympathy. I can't help but feel that it is incredibly crass and tasteless to stick in beer ads in with those photos. Then again, this is CBS.

mickeyrat

InHiding80 said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

oftenreading said:

BS44325 said:

blueandwhite said:

BS44325 said:

The wife (second shooter) Tashfeen Malik had Pakistani passport and was in the US on a K-1 visa. She was fully vetted and yet this happened. More evidence that the verification system is broken.

It is inevitable that in any system that a few criminals will pass through. Pretending that this is a common event is absurd. Of the tens of thousands of gun related homicides that occur in the US each year, how many of them are actually tied to Islamic fundamentalism? Personally I'd be far more fearful of the everyday gun owner than of the ISIS terrorist whom I'm far less likely to ever encounter. Whether you choose to believe it or not, you're more likely to be killed by a gun toting neighbour than dying in a random terrorist attack.
cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

When you are over 100 times more likely to be killed by a random act of gun violence than by a terrorist you have to ask yourself. 'what are you really afraid of'?

I don't think the families of those fourteen dead americans are interested in how common or uncommon these types of attacks are. We should be trying to stop acts of radical islamic terror not because it is common or out of fear but because it is the right thing to do. This is not something we should have to accept as just being part of life.

Shouldn't stopping all the other, far more common forms gun violence, be the right thing to do, too? And if not, why not, since they affect far greater numbers of people?

Yes. Of course. We can do both.

You're opposed to gun control even though countries with fewer firearms and more firearms restrictions have far fewer gun-related homicides yet you have no problem with profiling Muslims to prevent terrorism despite the fact that terrorist attacks are generally a rare occurrence. That's quite the double standard!

Who said I am opposed to gun control? Who said I am for profiling Muslims? Are we reading between the lines again? It is amazing how emotion gets the best of so many of you. Solutions should be based on unemotional look at the data and in the US the data does not back you up. I already linked to a Washington Post article detailing this and here is another link that summarizes it:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/12/04/washington-post-gun-violence-declining-except-gun-free-zones/

Gun ownership in the US is up but gun violence as a whole is down. Mass shootings are definitely up but not everywhere. We need to ask ourselves why without knee jerk responses and without accusing people of being against gun control. Every incident has it's own specific causes and you cannot treat them all the same. This case is due radical Islamism and should and it is my belief that there is not a single gun law you could pass that would have prevented it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't look at gun laws for other reasons but in the case it is a whole different ball game. These are not all the same.

Ah, yes. The source that lied about Sherrod. Very trustworthy. Cue classic one word quote from Wayne's World!

I would argue it's not the radicalization of Islam but rather the more directed Radical Politicization of Islam that is the problem. Same as you see here to a lesser internal dynamic with the radical Politicization of Christianity or Judiaism in Israel.

mickeyrat

Good article related to what many peolle csll irresponsible "journalism ".

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/4/broadcast-inside-home-of-alleged-san-bernardino-attackers-provokes-shock.html?utm_content=main&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

tempo_n_groove

mickeyrat said:

Good article related to what many peolle csll irresponsible "journalism ".

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/4/broadcast-inside-home-of-alleged-san-bernardino-attackers-provokes-shock.html?utm_content=main&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

I still can't believe that they just stormed into that home. Can't all those that did this to an active crime scene be arrested? Seriously?

Arrest everyone of those camera people and reporters and hit them hard.

Just plain stupid.

mickeyrat

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Good article related to what many peolle csll irresponsible "journalism ".

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/4/broadcast-inside-home-of-alleged-san-bernardino-attackers-provokes-shock.html?utm_content=main&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

I still can't believe that they just stormed into that home. Can't all those that did this to an active crime scene be arrested? Seriously?

Arrest everyone of those camera people and reporters and hit them hard.

Just plain stupid.

FBI was done so they say and boarded it up , at that point they have no say. Landlord might face some kind of civil suit if the family chooses to pursue. As the unit still technically was a private residence of the daughter, they just cant allow entry.

bootlegger10

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Good article related to what many peolle csll irresponsible "journalism ".

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/4/broadcast-inside-home-of-alleged-san-bernardino-attackers-provokes-shock.html?utm_content=main&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

I still can't believe that they just stormed into that home. Can't all those that did this to an active crime scene be arrested? Seriously?

Arrest everyone of those camera people and reporters and hit them hard.

Just plain stupid.

The FBI released the apartment to the landlord. Idiot journalists nonetheless.

PJ_Soul

bootlegger10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Good article related to what many peolle csll irresponsible "journalism ".

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/4/broadcast-inside-home-of-alleged-san-bernardino-attackers-provokes-shock.html?utm_content=main&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

I still can't believe that they just stormed into that home. Can't all those that did this to an active crime scene be arrested? Seriously?

Arrest everyone of those camera people and reporters and hit them hard.

Just plain stupid.

The FBI released the apartment to the landlord. Idiot journalists nonetheless.

There you go. That's wat I asked in the first place. If this was no longer an active crime scene, then who gives a shit?? What are people disturbed about? The violation of the privacy of the mass murderers???? I mean, I understand that the kind of low-brow and crass scrambling of the reporters was rather off-putting, but it's hardly shocking.

mickeyrat

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Good article related to what many peolle csll irresponsible "journalism ".

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/4/broadcast-inside-home-of-alleged-san-bernardino-attackers-provokes-shock.html?utm_content=main&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

I still can't believe that they just stormed into that home. Can't all those that did this to an active crime scene be arrested? Seriously?

Arrest everyone of those camera people and reporters and hit them hard.

Just plain stupid.

The FBI released the apartment to the landlord. Idiot journalists nonetheless.

There you go. That's wat I asked in the first place. If this was no longer an active crime scene, then who gives a shit?? What are people disturbed about? The violation of the privacy of the mass murderers???? I mean, I understand that the kind of low-brow and crass scrambling of the reporters was rather off-putting, but it's hardly shocking.

this action by all these reporters particularly the TV folks was irresponsible for live coverage. There was no chance for selective proper editing, no context , and other responsible journalism.

Its not so much that they were there, as they have been on crime scenes before , but this seems unprecedented. Really speaks to the idea that truth is secondary to the "scoop" . news shouldnt be a for profit enterprise.

PJ_Soul

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:

bootlegger10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mickeyrat said:

Good article related to what many peolle csll irresponsible "journalism ".

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/4/broadcast-inside-home-of-alleged-san-bernardino-attackers-provokes-shock.html?utm_content=main&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

I still can't believe that they just stormed into that home. Can't all those that did this to an active crime scene be arrested? Seriously?

Arrest everyone of those camera people and reporters and hit them hard.

Just plain stupid.

The FBI released the apartment to the landlord. Idiot journalists nonetheless.

There you go. That's wat I asked in the first place. If this was no longer an active crime scene, then who gives a shit?? What are people disturbed about? The violation of the privacy of the mass murderers???? I mean, I understand that the kind of low-brow and crass scrambling of the reporters was rather off-putting, but it's hardly shocking.

this action by all these reporters particularly the TV folks was irresponsible for live coverage. There was no chance for selective proper editing, no context , and other responsible journalism.

Its not so much that they were there, as they have been on crime scenes before , but this seems unprecedented. Really speaks to the idea that truth is secondary to the "scoop" . news shouldnt be a for profit enterprise.

I'm not sure I'm following. I don't see how live camera footage of that can be better after editing and being put into someone's context. To me that is where the media's manipulation and bias and spin would come in. Raw camera footage is what it is.

PJ_Soul

But loved when the reporter looks at the calendar, as though something interesting would be on it, like the cops would have left it there if there had been. I was watching it with someone at work, and we had a morbid laugh coming up with all the possibilities of what the jounalists thought might be on there. Big red circles around days, etc.