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San Bernardino Shootings Kill 14

brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
in A Moving Train
Am I missing something? This happened this AM. No thread yet?
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-up-to-20-shot-in-san-bernardino-active-shooter-sought-20151202-story.html
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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  • Options
    SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,522
    In the America's Gun Violence thread.
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
    Smellyman said:

    In the America's Gun Violence thread.

    That's interesting because terrorism hasn't been ruled out and these types of events usually lead to lengthy threads. Maybe it's better to keep all the horror business in one thread but it also leads me to wonder if we are just getting so used to these mass killings that we react like, "Oh damn, that sucks. Another mass shooting. Hmmm." Like it's just not that big a deal any more. We are a crazy animal species.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    It probably should have it's own thread because it no longer qualifies as plain old American Gun Violence. It is now looking like another case of Islamic terrorism.
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
    BS44325 said:

    It probably should have it's own thread because it no longer qualifies as plain old American Gun Violence. It is now looking like another case of Islamic terrorism.

    Any links, BS? Last I looked it still isn't classified beyond "uncertain". It does sound an aweful lot like Paris.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    It probably should have it's own thread because it no longer qualifies as plain old American Gun Violence. It is now looking like another case of Islamic terrorism.

    Any links, BS? Last I looked it still isn't classified beyond "uncertain". It does sound an aweful lot like Paris.
    It's all over cable news and they have just named the alleged attackers. First guy is listed here...again it is very early so details can change

    http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-involved-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
    BS44325 said:

    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    It probably should have it's own thread because it no longer qualifies as plain old American Gun Violence. It is now looking like another case of Islamic terrorism.

    Any links, BS? Last I looked it still isn't classified beyond "uncertain". It does sound an aweful lot like Paris.
    It's all over cable news and they have just named the alleged attackers. First guy is listed here...again it is very early so details can change

    http://m.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-involved-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471
    Damn, just what we need. :frowning:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,562
    bizarre....because on suspect has a middle eastern sounding name.....but was also maybe a disgruntled employee....so terrorism or not? FWIW, anything like this is "terrorism"
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
    imalive said:

    bizarre....because on suspect has a middle eastern sounding name.....but was also maybe a disgruntled employee....so terrorism or not? FWIW, anything like this is "terrorism"

    I just did a little more poking around and I'd say it's too early to say it is or isn't terrorist. One thing we know for sure- it's more death by gunfire in the USA.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,522
    edited December 2015
    BS really wants it to be a Muslim
  • Options
    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,562
    Smellyman said:

    BS really wants it to be a Muslim

    BS just wants guns to protect his family and defend freedom!
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • Options
    bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,592
    Horrible news. Very sad. This shit has to stop.
  • Options
    InHiding80InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    edited December 2015
    BS, I'm a client at that regional center and for you to bring your xenophobua bullshit especially since you're okay with terrorist warmogers on your GOP side is a new personal low. Go play with your Cheney blow up doll, jackass.
    Post edited by InHiding80 on
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
    A lot of people want the shooter to be Muslim. That fits many people's expectations, keeps the biases intact, keeps the gun thing off the table (because, damn it, we all need to be armed to the frickin teeth), and eventually is great for the war economy. Same old story.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    edited December 2015
    Smellyman said:

    BS really wants it to be a Muslim

    I want it to be? Wow. Immediately after the attack what happened? The same people flooded these boards and flooded twitter yelling "random gun violence" without a single shred of evidence. "We must stop the NRA!" "Those who support it should die horrible deaths!" Talk about wanting a narrative! Then what happens? The facts come out and you all run from the ideology like you always do. Islamic radicalism is a real thing that must be confronted. If you truly want these incidents of violence to end you must stop being afraid to discuss it. Enough running from the facts.
    Post edited by BS44325 on
  • Options
    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    imalive said:

    Smellyman said:

    BS really wants it to be a Muslim

    BS just wants guns to protect his family and defend freedom!
    I don't own a gun or want one but I respect someone's right to get one (within reason).
  • Options
    WobbieWobbie Posts: 29,562
    "cheney blow up doll"was good.

    radical islam and guns/gun laws are two seperate issues that sometimes overlap. they both need to be addressed.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
    Denver 22
  • Options
    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    imalive said:

    "cheney blow up doll"was good.

    radical islam and guns/gun laws are two seperate issues that sometimes overlap. they both need to be addressed.

    Absolutely agree. They can both be discussed and it is not xenophobia to call this what it is.
  • Options
    AnnafalkAnnafalk Sweden Posts: 4,004
    This is so horrible and meaningless. Is it another terror shooting ?
  • Options
    Asterisk on the StreetAsterisk on the Street Posts: 810
    Very sad. Thoughts are with the injured and families of those who lost loved ones. One of my coworkers used to do some work at Inland Regional Center. We have been watching the local news to hear more information about motive. Doesn't fit a disgruntled employee scenario.
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
    Annafalk said:

    This is so horrible and meaningless. Is it another terror shooting ?

    Here's the best clearest answer I've seen yet:

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-live-updates-htmlstory.html#

    "What we know

    Around 11 a.m., at least one shooter opened fire in San Bernardino at a party in the Inland Regional Center.
    At least 14 people were killed and 17 wounded, San Bernardino police said.
    Police said there were one to three assailants, who were heavily armed and possibly wearing body armor.
    After an afternoon car chase, two suspects were killed by police -- one male and one female. A third person has been detained.
    Authorities are searching a home in nearby Redlands.
    One suspect is named Syed Farook, according to law enforcement officials.
    The motive behind the shooting is unknown."

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    InHiding80InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    edited December 2015
    imalive said:

    "cheney blow up doll"was good.

    radical islam and guns/gun laws are two seperate issues that sometimes overlap. they both need to be addressed.

    See? I'm not so bad once you get over the fact that I'm a fan of some baseball team you hate. TBF, I hate Scioscia. He's peaked as a manager.

    I left a voice mail for my case worker hoping she's okay there. I work with two other clients there in a warehouse for a logistics company in Chino so it hits home for them since we're the only 3 who live in the county.
    Post edited by InHiding80 on
  • Options
    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Shooters were a married couple with a 6 month old baby. They were military tactic ready with pipe bombs and GoPro's apparently mounted to their weapons. They were ready to broadcast footage and their home was just called an "IED facility".
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,719
    BS44325 said:

    imalive said:

    Smellyman said:

    BS really wants it to be a Muslim

    BS just wants guns to protect his family and defend freedom!
    I don't own a gun or want one but I respect someone's right to get one (within reason).
    Why don't you enlighten us with what your definition of, "within reason" is? If you can? And are you actively advocating for liberal gun ownership in Oh Canada? Why not?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Options
    BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    BS44325 said:

    imalive said:

    Smellyman said:

    BS really wants it to be a Muslim

    BS just wants guns to protect his family and defend freedom!
    I don't own a gun or want one but I respect someone's right to get one (within reason).
    Why don't you enlighten us with what your definition of, "within reason" is? If you can? And are you actively advocating for liberal gun ownership in Oh Canada? Why not?
    "Within reason" - no criminal record, no history of mental illness, background checks etc. pretty much all the things you have right now. I don't believe in zero regulation.

    Gun ownership in Canada should absolutely be less restrictive. The long gun registry in Canada was a disaster and only hurt law abiding citizens. I advocated for it's removal.

    Now stop trying to dodge the motivations of today's killers by flooding the zone with a history of every shooting. You are out of gun law ideas and I think even you recognize that the restrictive gun laws of France didn't prevent the Paris attacks. It's the ideology. Don't be afraid to confront it.
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,800
    BS44325 said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    BS44325 said:

    imalive said:

    Smellyman said:

    BS really wants it to be a Muslim

    BS just wants guns to protect his family and defend freedom!
    I don't own a gun or want one but I respect someone's right to get one (within reason).
    Why don't you enlighten us with what your definition of, "within reason" is? If you can? And are you actively advocating for liberal gun ownership in Oh Canada? Why not?
    "Within reason" - no criminal record, no history of mental illness, background checks etc. pretty much all the things you have right now. I don't believe in zero regulation.

    Gun ownership in Canada should absolutely be less restrictive. The long gun registry in Canada was a disaster and only hurt law abiding citizens. I advocated for it's removal.

    Now stop trying to dodge the motivations of today's killers by flooding the zone with a history of every shooting. You are out of gun law ideas and I think even you recognize that the restrictive gun laws of France didn't prevent the Paris attacks. It's the ideology. Don't be afraid to confront it.
    BS, at this point, the ideology of the Paris killings has nothing to do with the San Bernardino killings for which no motive has yet been established. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,965
    edited December 2015
    brianlux said:

    BS44325 said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    BS44325 said:

    imalive said:

    Smellyman said:

    BS really wants it to be a Muslim

    BS just wants guns to protect his family and defend freedom!
    I don't own a gun or want one but I respect someone's right to get one (within reason).
    Why don't you enlighten us with what your definition of, "within reason" is? If you can? And are you actively advocating for liberal gun ownership in Oh Canada? Why not?
    "Within reason" - no criminal record, no history of mental illness, background checks etc. pretty much all the things you have right now. I don't believe in zero regulation.

    Gun ownership in Canada should absolutely be less restrictive. The long gun registry in Canada was a disaster and only hurt law abiding citizens. I advocated for it's removal.

    Now stop trying to dodge the motivations of today's killers by flooding the zone with a history of every shooting. You are out of gun law ideas and I think even you recognize that the restrictive gun laws of France didn't prevent the Paris attacks. It's the ideology. Don't be afraid to confront it.
    BS, at this point, the ideology of the Paris killings has nothing to do with the San Bernardino killings for which no motive has yet been established. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.
    Bri, lots of similarities between Paris and this recent shooting. Same type of gun used, dressed very similar, obviously planned out and multiple shooters, the suspects didn't run but rather went back to their apartment and fought the police and died.

    And now of course we found out that the suspect met his wife (the other suspect) online and recently visited Saudis Arabia.
    Fwiw: all guns used were legally bought a few years ago.
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    BS44325 said:

    The facts come out and you all run from the ideology like you always do. Islamic radicalism is a real thing that must be confronted. If you truly want these incidents of violence to end you must stop being afraid to discuss it. Enough running from the facts.

    I'm a liberal, and you are 100% correct... Bill Maher has been screaming this from the roof tops for years...

    wake up liberals

  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,965
    BS44325 said:

    Smellyman said:

    BS really wants it to be a Muslim

    I want it to be? Wow. Immediately after the attack what happened? The same people flooded these boards and flooded twitter yelling "random gun violence" without a single shred of evidence. "We must stop the NRA!" "Those who support it should die horrible deaths!" Talk about wanting a narrative! Then what happens? The facts come out and you all run from the ideology like you always do. Islamic radicalism is a real thing that must be confronted. If you truly want these incidents of violence to end you must stop being afraid to discuss it. Enough running from the facts.
    very well said.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,136
    These two were "law abiding citizens". Apparently obtained their guns legally. Senseless shooting.

    Why this location of all places? What was their motive?
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,719
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/02/the-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-is-the-second-today-and-the-355th-this-year/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-high_wonkblogshootings-1116pm:homepage/story

    You pro gun people are right, you win. Nothing can nor should be done. It's all ideaology. Have fun shooting your guns and being responsible. You own it.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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